Talk:Blessthefall/Archive 1

Note
If someone will rename the His Last Walk page blessthefall i will rewrite the page.Oysterguitarist 13:43, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I intended to clean up this and the album article, but apparently it has been "protected to prevent creation". I'm relatively new to all this, but that seems like a strange thing to do. Is there someone deciding which bands are significant enough to get their own article? Anyway... I see the request has been made, so I'll just wait then. Fenrisulfr 14:21, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

You Guys Fucking Suck Balls Who Ever Erased What WE Wrote You Fucking Cock Sucers —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.112.47.55 (talk) 14:22, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

New lead vocalist is Beau Bokan. This page has the proof and a new song. http://blessthefall.buzznet.com/user/journal/3066611/

Craig's departure
Page is updated to reflect Craig's departure.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:17, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Any source on Craig leaving the band? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.209.214.115 (talk) 20:37, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Obviously now there is. I was just ahead of the curve.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:56, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Blessthefall is fucking awsome bitches —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.112.47.55 (talk) 19:19, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Notability
I think there actually is notability for this article; a blessthefall gs reveals an obvious fan base and general awareness. I think the main problem is that this is (in my opinion) an article needing a major rewrite. Part of the problem is the ending; adding speculation and "what the band is doing this second" sort of thing is not really in Wiki scope. Another problem is the obviousness of the band themselves doing a little self promotion; the unsigned comment above (".... who ever erased what WE wrote..."), along with the colorful language, is evidence of this.

Again, article has right to exist. Needs major cleanup. Tanthalas39 (talk) 18:05, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I've done some work on it. As for the current touring, that seems to be standard WP for many bands.  However, in this case, the article ends with a recent major development, Mabbitt's departure, so I think we are OK there.  --Wehwalt (talk) 12:07, 18 December 2007 (UTC)


 * This was actually a very old message. This article was deleted five times and salted before I asked to have it reinstituted a few months ago. Chubbles (talk) 14:52, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

That not a christian. Link sucks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.94.237.73 (talk) 23:27, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Can someone please take of Screamo as a genre of theirs? Screamo, believe it or not, is a genre that was spawned from 90's "prehistoric emo". Bands that deserve such a title are Saetia, Hot Cross, and many other bands on the Level Plane Records label. blessthefall is more appropriately classified under the post-hardcore genre. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jbaertsch (talk • contribs) 20:01, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

We have been through this so many times before. Screamo has a mainstream and an underground; one does not make the other illegitimate. Chubbles (talk) 20:21, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

more blessthefall info
the band played the Taste of Chaos 2008 tour with Avenged Sevenfold, Atreyu and Bullet For My Valentine starting Febuary. They played with an incomplete line up, featuring Aiden(Dear Whoever) fillin in on bass while Jared dropped his bass duties to fill in as lead singer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Funeralformyself (talk • contribs) 05:34, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Messy article
This article is really confusing, just did some re-writing, any additions, suggestions, or changes are much appreciated. -XClaudiox (talk) 03:12, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Christian
For Awhile i thought this band was a christian band, but from seeing a video of the of them on youtube were they Fuck very many time and at the end they say were not christian anymore. Also another video. none other this is christian like. and Yes i understand of bands like Underoath and Zao have been heard and seen cusing a stuff like that, but come on.Skateremorocker (talk) 14:38, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually there's another video stating that that was only a joke. The band is totally christian. Seriously man. No one is perfect. We we're given life to make our own decisions. So what. Still remains is christian but they still party. Who cares. Just have fun with life instead of holding back cause i know you wouldn't want to die and say you've done nothing to make you happy. These guys are most definetly christian. You just have to watch another video of theres and they state that it was a joke. -Matthew Miasma™ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.199.11.224 (talk) 20:14, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

What video's did they cuss in anyways?I want to see for myself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.32.32 (talk) 05:53, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It would be a good idea to get a citation for it. An interview would be best. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:00, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

They are NOT a Christian band. Members of the band are Christian, and the band does support a positive message. However, they are not labeled and do not label themselves nor advertise themselves as a Christian band. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcodarco1 (talk • contribs) 2010-11-28T21:04:00

Christian or not Christian? Taken from the user talk of Walter Görlitz
Please actually give sources when you're claiming that there are sources. Because many internet goers have complained about the lack of Christian lyrics on Witness. Yet I see no one calling that particular album Christian. Also, instruments in the members section is for what they do live. If he does keys and synth for albums, then those should be listed in the album article. -- ҚЯĀŽΨÇÉV  13  12:37, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
 * http://lmpmagazine.com/2010/05/04/blessthefall-interview/
 * http://www.shotmonster.com/interviews/blessthefall.html
 * http://heavymetal.about.com/od/b/fr/blessthefall-witness.htm
 * http://itunes.apple.com/ca/artist/blessthefall/id202971163
 * So we don't exclusively label them as a Christian band, they are a Christian band, even if only for historical reasons.
 * This discussion should have been on the article's talk page. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:57, 17 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Source 1: "we started off as a christian band and everything." Very past tense.
 * Source 2: "So while all the members of the band are Christian, the guys don't want to be pigeonholed as a "Christian" band." Speaks for itself.
 * Source 3: The word "Christian" isn't even in the review. Seeing similar articles does not count, at all.
 * Source 4: That entire article was written in or before 2008.
 * So yeah, they aren't a Christian band anymore, as very clearly stated in source 2. Please don't revert this again, or it will be considered vandalism. -- ҚЯĀŽΨÇÉV  13  12:59, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Source 3 "See More About: * blessthefall * metalcore * christian metal..."
 * Source 4 also indicates that they're a Christian metal band.
 * They're still Christians. They're still a Christian metal band. Show me one source that says "we are not a Christian metal band". --Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Dude, when a band specifically states that they "don't want to be pigeonholed as a Christian band." Source 3 is extremely weak, and you obviously completely ignored my point on source 4, seeing as that whole article was about His Last Walk, and is no longer accurate as it is not RECENT. The lyrics "I'm right here, bitch!" aren't exactly Christian, and there aren't references to Christianity. A source stating their genre under "see more" as Christian metal is completely unreliable, as it is most likely just a tag. If it was stated in the article itself, this would be a different conversation. I'm serious, you're going to start being considered a vandal unless you give a reliable RECENT source (meaning post-Witness). -- ҚЯĀŽΨÇÉV  13  23:04, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

I'd say you're both being pretty ridiculous. I'd have to agree though, the fact that it was clearly stated that they "don't want to be pigeonholed as a christian band." should be an obvious point, that although the members may be christian, they don't consider themselves a christian band. Why not just make a compromise? Technically speaking I'd say you are both right in some way.. try something like:

Blessthefall is an American post-hardcore band from Phoenix, Arizona, currently signed to Fearless Records. The band was founded in 2004 by guitarist Mike Frisby, drummer Matt Traynor, and bassist Jared Warth. Their debut album with original vocalist Craig Mabbitt was released April 10, 2007, titled His Last Walk. Their second studio album with new vocalist Beau Bokan was released October 6, 2009, titled Witness. Although the members of the band identify themselves as Christians, they do not consider themselves as a Christian Band.

It could definitely be worded better than my example, but it still gets my point across. Jer757 (talk) 23:39, 18 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't mind you saying that we're being ridiculous. First, being pigeon-holed as a band could mean as little as saying they're only Christian rock/Christian metal. They don't come out and say "don't ever call us that". The fact that they were considered a Christian band by others is enough to state that they're a Christian metal band. You don't have a source to back the claim that they don't consider themselves to be a Christian band, just that they don't want to be pigeon-holed as one. There are sources that indicate they are a Christian band. Do you have a source that says they're not a Christian metal band? --Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry that I don't have more information for you but HM Magazine is a Christian metal magazine. These are links to their on-line presence where they discuss the band's touring plans, and two videos. There are more, but you'll have to search for them on the site.
 * * http://www.hmmagazine.com/2010/05/blessthefall-share-touring-plans/
 * * http://www.hmmagazine.com/2010/07/headbangers-ball-debut-blessthefall-video/
 * * http://www.hmmagazine.com/2010/07/blessthefall-deliver-a-look-into-new-video/
 * Check-out the quote from the printed version here: http://www.indievisionmusic.com/2009/12/21/blessthefall-witness/
 * * It starts "Interesting read in the lastest HM magazine about this band".
 * Again, their genre isn't so much about what they want it to be. One definition of Christian music is that it's music of any kind made by Christians. It's the most broad definition. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:59, 18 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I apologize, I meant nothing really by calling you both ridiculous, this whole thing just seems like another pointless genre war. That and found a bit of humor in whichever of you reverted an edit claiming "its not christian because of a swear word in their lyrics.". Also, I think I may have misunderstood the pigeonholed comment, and as far as I can see, there are no sources, other than one of the band members sarcastically saying they are no longer a christian band. - Jer757 (talk) 00:01, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
 * as I wrote before, I don't mind you saying that we're being ridiculous. Sometimes we need to step back and look at our behaviour from the eyes of a third-party to recognize how odd it actually is. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:16, 19 November 2010 (UTC)


 * See We Came as Romans, guys. Every member is Christian, yet do we see them being called a Christian band? No. Same with how Attack Attack! used to be. Their first album contained several references to Christianity, yet they also aren't considered a Christian band. I know that other stuff exists, but seriously guys, there isn't a source about their most recent album stating they're Christian. That's like saying Abandon All Ships is still Christian because of their song "Heaven" about the title place, despite the fact that "fuck" is used in the same song. It doesn't make any sense. -- ҚЯĀŽΨÇÉV  13  13:19, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I understand your point. The main difference is that Blessthefall has support from the Christian music industry while We Came as Romans and Attack Attack! don't. And Attack Attack! never ever claimed that they were a Christian band. The fact that they use a word that is quite common, and that you see as profane, in one of their songs doesn't make them no longer a Christian band. It speaks to some sort of sacred/profane duality that some modern theologians are attempting to distance themselves from (Michael Frost is one example of this). Please remember that I'm not saying that they are perfect examples. I'm not saying that they are on the same plane as modern worship bands. The only thing that I'm saying is that the umbrella of what encompasses Christian metal is, for some, very broad, and Blessthefall are welcomed under it by some in the industry. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:57, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Neither WCAR nor AA! have all christian members, you seemed to have overlooked that section on the WCAR article. I understand where you are coming from though, but BTF identified themselves as a christian band while Craig was in the band, I wouldn't say him being out of it would change that, unless maybe Beau, who also identifies himself as a christian - wasn't infact a christian. I see it like this. WCAR and AA! have specifically said they are not christian bands, and until BTF comes out and says that they're not a christian band anymore, they are still considered one. - Jer '' 757  18:14, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, we'll leave this as Christian for now. I figure that, after your points (particularly Jer's), I have no need to pursue this argument further. However, I am going to remove "post-hardcore/metalcore" to simply "post-hardcore", as primary genre is the only one listed. For now, unless they decide they are no longer Christian, I suppose it should stay that way. I apologize for my stubbornness, Walter. -- ҚЯĀŽΨÇÉV  13  23:16, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, here's what Matt said on Formspring. Haha, anybody wanna start the "Awesomecore" Wikipedia page? Anyway, I guess he doesn't label themselves Christian. He didn't exactly give a yes or no, though. I don't know if my input here is going to do anything, but I guess it's something. Marcodarco1 (talk) 05:54, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh, here we go. Tada! Marcodarco1 (talk) 18:27, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Not looking to get too involved in this, but this review and this news article (both meeting WP:R) directly identify Blessthefall as a Christian metalcore band. By Wikipedia's standards, shouldn't that merit a mention in the lead?

P.S. We're supposed to avoid using the subject as a source when possible.--Invisiboy42293 (talk) 05:48, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Emo
Blessthefall ARE emo/screamo. I mean seriously all music is based on sound and just read their lyrics. Emo was short for emotional hardcore. per allmusic — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheMetallican (talk • contribs) 00:54, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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Vocalists
Should we make a note that Beau does the clean vocals while Jared does the harsh vocals? This can be seen in their official video for To Hell and Back. It clearly shows that Beau doesn't scream at all. 69.251.198.48 (talk) 20:12, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

No, thats not fully true. Beau dose scream. not alot but he dose like the song "whats left of me". He screams more of the high screams though. Heres a few proof videos.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohQ-Kc6ASvs.

I just noticed that Beau can scream too, and you can hear it clearly in the song named "Carry On", the song Jake Luhrs has featured. A month ago, I read that Beau will perform screaming vocals in 2014 but I read that he played keyboard in the band. I don't know what's the true. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.227.46.189 (talk) 21:58, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Noticing is good. Referencing is the only way that we should accept that though. Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:13, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Beau indeed does most of the singing, but he is also sometimes (rarely) screamer, Jared on the other hand screams/growls most of the time and rarely sings 321rematch (talk) 03:29, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

GENRE
blessthefall is not a screamo band. They are metalcore. Their sound is nothing related to screamo. Listen to bands like Funeral Diner, or I Hate Myself, and you will see what i mean. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.174.156.47 (talk) 13:37, 20 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Read WP:NOR. Chubbles (talk) 13:38, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

BTF is not screamo. The Allmusic.com citation is UNRELIABLE. It called All That Remains "black metal". SilverOrion —Preceding comment was added at 09:26, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed, AMG too often sucks when trying to label bands. But hey, if the East Valley Tribune (most trusted name in bandlabelling) confirms, I guess we should shut up and read NOR again! --NoCultureIcons (talk) 23:11, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Our opinions don't matter. Allmusic is a trusted source so it counts. And there is also another source confirming it, so even if we don't like it we're gonna have to live with it. Riverpeopleinvasion (talk) 23:13, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

riverpeopleinvasion is a complete idiot and on top of that he's bi lol ewww.. go back to 4chan you fag —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.108.147.195 (talk) 17:12, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree blessthefall ain't screamo, they said it themselves and here's a referrence http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=PgxAFdjLRXE&feature=PlayList&p=B42DB3CFDB36BAB3&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=9 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Darksluke23 (talk • contribs) 12:36, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Btf is screamo,emo and post-hardcore and not metalcore or death metal!! -RottenEmoFreak —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.94.13.21 (talk) 06:36, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Btf is emo screamo and metalcore u dumbasses (Seth4000 (talk) 14:30, 22 January 2009 (UTC)) Seth4000

Btf is most definitely a Post-Hardcore band. I hesitate to use the terms Emo and Screamo because I like to think of them in their original usage, and the way you're using them now is not how they were meant to be used. I think saying that they are a Post-Hardcore band would suffice. 69.251.198.48 (talk) 20:14, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

It is true that Blessthefall is in no way screamo, but wikipedia's articles aren't based on fact, but on references and reliable sources —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.205.102 (talk) 22:26, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Blessthefall, in my own opinion, is Metalcore. Breakdowns can be noticed and heavy instrumental plays and riffs signify that it should be labelled as Metalcore. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Darksluke23 (talk • contribs) 13:51, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I do't have a source for this yet but BTF plays a similar mixture of Post-Hardcore and Metalcore to that which you'll find in Atreyu, Underoath and 36 Crazyfists. While they use heavy riffs, breakdowns and screaming,there is no trace of melodic death metal. Kezian Avenger  19:50, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

tell me how is blessthefall hardcore punk Ed24mig (talk) 22:33, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
 * There are two issues at play here. The first is you removed it without explaining why and supposing that you know better. That's a problem and it's addressed in the essay: WP:GWAR.
 * The fact that it's not actually supported in the article is a separate issue. That edit was made by  with the explanation of "Blessthefall started as Unknown Nation in 2004 and was hardcore punk, referenced to the 10 Things You Didn't Know about blessthefall video from Alternative Press". Perhaps you can ask NellyOriginPMOD to elaborate. Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:20, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

If you look on the "10 facts you didn't know about blessthefall" video on Alternative Presses YouTube channel, it states that they were known as Unknown Nation during formation of the band and was hardcore punk, or punk. NellyOriginPMOD (talk) 2:17, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

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Better sources
Self-published sources are appropriate but secondary sources should be found when possible. Removing a template that requests that information is not necessary. Edit warring over it is also not necessary. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:49, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, I suppose it doesn't matter whether the template is included or not.-- MA SHAUN IX 16:17, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
 * If I felt the source was inaccurate or should not have been placed, I would have removed the reference and likely the content. The template is just a reminder to fix it when others start writing about it. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:07, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Practically half the sources in the article are links to YouTube. Not a lot of third-party sources that aren't genre-related. sixty nine   • speak up •  01:40, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

possibilitys for new lead singer
Dee Snider Ashley Parker Angel Deryck Whibley Sandra Bogdan ex-Necromance —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gnarkilllover (talk • contribs) 00:07, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

the new lead singer is Beau Bokan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.143.111.117 (talk) 17:11, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

New lead vocalist is Beau Bokan. This page has the proof and a new song. http://blessthefall.buzznet.com/user/journal/3066611/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by DieHardDawgPound (talk • contribs) 19:09, 25 September 2008
 * ✅, information appears to be included now, let us know if anything else is missing. ~ mazca  t 20:45, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Did Eric ever actually do vocals for blessthefall after Mabbitt's departure and before Bokan joined? If so I would enjoy seeing that. NellyOriginPMOD (talk) 21:22, 16 December 2017 (UTC)