Talk:Bloodline (World of Darkness)

Removed
Deleted sentence that said Giovanni were excluded from the table, because they had since been included.

Giovanni
I wouldn't call the Giovanni's families bloodlines, since they're just groups of mortals the clan Embraces from. MasterGrazzt 03:12, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Bloodlines for Vampire: The Masquerade
I'll do a general clean up of this list over time. There were some bloodlines that were obviously missing and there are some there that I disagree with. I'll do my research properly before moving or deleting anything. For now, I've added the following items:
 * Nictuku (the ancient monsters related to the Nosferatu)
 * Ventrue (one of the seven core Camarilla clans)
 * Ventrue antitribu (Ventrue in the Sabbat)
 * Caitiff (clanless vampires)
 * Panders (Caitiff in the Sabbat)

I may start adding sources for the bloodlines too, to prevent any disagreements over their validity.

Stelio 09:56, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Nosferatu are a bloodline of Nictuku. 151.213.240.221 17:10, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Absolutely, I agree (I admit to being rather nebulous in using the phrase "related to" above). And indeed the Giovanni are a bloodline of the Cappadocians, and the Tremere are descended from the Salubri. It comes down to the definition of clan as to which groups get put in the leftmost column of the table, which is rather more "in the eye of the beholder". Sadly I've not yet had the time to do the full research and reconstruction that this list deserves, but I'll get around to it eventually. :-) Stelio 12:38, 2 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually the Tremere are a bloodline of the Tzimisce - the diablerie of Saulot offered them full "clan" status, but they were a line of vampires for neary a century prior to their devouring of the Salubri clan founder. Also, I've moved the Daughters of Cacophony to their proper place as a Toreador bloodline (as reinforced in Victorian Ages Vampire) - how anyone would get the idea that they were a bloodline of the Baali is beyond me. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 199.243.211.114 (talk • contribs) 17:52, 8 July 2006 (UTC).


 *   That's a good point, well made. :-) They did indeed use a captured Tzimisce to turn themselves into vampires initially (I'd forgotten; thanks for reminding me). I had the Salubri in mind rather because of the influence that Saulot had on Tremere following the diablerie (making the Tremere clan a tool of Saulot, according to some people's beliefs). I'm still waiting to get my books back from a friend, but when I do, I'll make those edits I promised. Stelio 19:10, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Anyone up for a few merges?
The Sangiovanni article was put up for PROD on July 22, 2006. I am not an expert on VtR myself and I found this through my interest in the Hunter: The Reckoning video games. As no one has commented on the PROD or worked on expanding, I am going to remove the PROD and put it up for merging into this article. Also looking through the various bloodline articles, I noticed they are stubs; so this may be something that could be done with the others.

Merging these articles into Bloodline (World of Darkness) would require a new formatting for the way the bloodlines are displayed. I have made two examples: One and Two. The first one would be fine if the descriptions are brief. The second will allow for easier navigation and better display if the descriptions are long.

Besides all that, VtM bloodline articles have more information in them than the VtR ones. So these may require separate Bloodline (Vampire: The Masquerade) & Bloodline (Vampire: The Requiem) articles to keep the page clean.

I would appreciate any comments or concerns on this idea. CorwinM 00:20, 27 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Oops, I missed it. The article was just deleted after I posted above.  I still believe that some merges are in order however! CorwinM 00:26, 27 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Both of these seem like excellent suggestions to me, CorwinM. To address each of them separately:
 * I endorse the idea of splitting the information out into two pages, for V:tM and V:tR. There is quite a difference in the amount of information present for the two games, and indeed their fanbase is also different (although with sizeable overlaps). The two game worlds have no overlap; although one is based on the other, they are wholly separate universes between which there is no communication. But clearly the two pages should prominently link to each other in some way.
 * On the assumption that this subject is split into two pages, I suggest that the first of your two ideas be used for V:tM. This is on the grounds that the rich history of the V:tM game world requires multiple nesting of bloodlines, so using bullets allows an author to more easily trace a parent-child relationships through indentation, rather than through different header sizes.
 * I will endeavour to come up with a first stab at a V:tM page this weekend. I know nothing of note about the V:tR game world though, so I leave the detail of that to experts in the field. What I can do is move the existing V:tR data over into a new page (but is it more appropriate to use CorwinM's second layout, or some other style?).
 * I'll do this under my user page for now, and post a comment here to update you before the end of 6/8/2006. Any thoughts from others? Stelio 12:47, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

First draft of new format
Per the discussion above, I have put together a first stab at completely wrewriting this page (from the point of view of Vampire: The Masquerade). You can see the work in progress at User:Stelio/Bloodline (Vampire: The Masquerade). Please post any comments on the talk page there (I have already made various notes there). Please also edit that page yourself should you wish to. I will continue to add more information myself as I find the time. If there is agreement, we can replace this page with the new versions. Stelio 23:53, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Bloodline Errors
There's a few errors in the Bloodlines page. The origin of the Daughters of Cacophany/Suns of Discord is unknown, evidence points to the Malkavians, Baali & Toreador as possible sources. The Baali have no bloodlines. The Laibon of the dark ages are actually the Akuanase from KotEK. Also I always thought the plural of Pander is Pander? Cameronmurtagh 14:21, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Have created a Requiem page and moved the Reqiuem bloodlines there. Will also start adopting Stelio's updated page. Cameronmurtagh 10:13, 23 November 2006 (UTC)