Talk:Blue Man Group/Archive 1

Cell phone ad
i'dont want to mess with the discution area, but i don't know how to use the wikipage enviroment, but i've see the BMG in a ad for the celphone company TIM, here in Brazil, that is something that you guys should look after.

More details?
Where is all the revenue/sales information? I'm surprised by this article's total lack of information on this. Also, I read a recruiting ad by the Blue Man Group quite some time ago that described different aspects of being a 'Blue Man.' It provided a lot of information on prerequisites (height, gender, drum skills), and talked aout the general routine. It was interesting. If someone here has a copy of it or something related, I'd like to see it added to the page (there's hardly anything about individual blue men on here, just the productions of the group). 75.69.110.227 01:46, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

fan comment
It seems the blue man group are infact the best actors possible as they can keep it going and make amazing sites and dreams can be opened...they rock —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.243.139.41 (talk • contribs)

Matt Goldman in a recent interview with IOA Central says that the actors who play the Blue Men are "real actors" in that they don't do it to become famous. They do it to act, because they surely won't be known playing the Blue Man character. Krillinish 20:37, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Canadian Union rules controversy
Does anyone object to a section about the controversy surounding the Blue Man group's refusal to conform to Canadian Union rules in Toronto ? Dowew 04:37, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Definately. Union controversy was big. I live in San Diego and I saw it on the news here. --jonasaurus 18:02, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Unions don't serve Blue Men Group Concerts.

A "concert" is an agreement of two or more individuals in a design or plan; combined action; accord or harmony.

Individuals involved in BMG concerts include individuals who organize, promote, sell, stage and particpate in BMG concerts. The Blue Men are not any different than anyone else involved in the event. A lot of individuals work hard to produce a concert at any venue.

These people are those who sell tickets [not their employer(s)], people who work to clean and maintain the venues [not their employer(s)], people who create and organize the sets[not their employer(s)], people who operate the lights and sound [not their employer(s)], people who perform in the concert [not their employer[s]], and the people who participate in the concert who would be called "audience members" at any other venue. [not their employer[s]).] Jaxdave (talk) 05:12, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

don't be late
I don't understand why it is recommended that people don't arrive late for a showing of theirs? The writer seems to know something that we don't, so I'm going to check and see if theres any reason for his statement, otherwise I'll go ahead and remove it for being unencyclopedia. --jonasaurus 18:01, 4 August 2005 (UTC)


 * UPDATE:went ahead and removed the line. If anybody can explain the following please include it and explain it.
 * "It is highly recommended that one not arrive late to a performance."

the reason for the advice to not be late is that as a theatrical device several audience members who arrive "late" become the object of the show as they are shown to their seats, IF they agree in adavance to participate in the bit - so, this in fact has nothing to do with being late, but is a planned part of the show and the selected audinece members are asked to participate becuase they have seats that are centrally located, in easy view, and easily accessed - in fact, by being truly late, you'd be sure not to be asked to participate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.106.131 (talk • contribs)

In each show there is a skit that is done that has the Blue Men filling up a paint ballon, one tries to shoot it at another on stage and it's supposed to go everywhere, then, all of a sudden, a loud alarm goes off with the words "LATE ARRIVAL" flashing on the giant screen. Then a song plays when the people are ushered to their seats that consists of repeating "You're late" over and over again.


 * Actually being late to a performance won't trigger this to happen. The late person is randomly selected before the show date and their ticket contains the words "Late Arrival" which signifies that they are the ones chosen for the You're Late skit. JubbaG 01:06, 12 April 2006 (UTC)


 * When I saw BMG at the Luxor in August 05, the couple sitting next to me (on the aisle) were asked by an usher if they'd like to participate in the show. They were led off, and sure enough they were the "late" couple. It is a staged portion fof the act. Qermaq 18:31, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


 * And the person chosen for the "Klein" skit is selected in the lobby; then the skit is videotaped & played after the "victim" goes backstage & gets ready to come out again with his head encased in gelatin.

Instrument Pictures?
Should pictures of the instruments be included in the Instrument section? Ianthegecko 21:04, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Picture caption
The caption under the top picture is incorrect; those are not CMP, but rather three Berlin Blue Men.
 * New picture added, this time with the real CMP.Ianthegecko 23:01, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

"The" Blue Man Group
Blue Man Group should not be referred to with "The" before it; Blue Man Productions refers to the group as Blue Man Group, so please refer to it as such in the Wikipedia articles. Thank you. Ianthegecko 04:29, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

"Controversy"
This (poorly-written) section is obviously written from a pro-union viewpoint. It is suspicious of BMG's motives and disapproving of their decision to use non-union labor, going so far as to imply that the BMG did not want the Las Vegas crew to receive a "pension and good health care benefits". This is disingenuous to say the least, highly opinionated at the worst. It makes the assumption that unionized labor is superior to non-unionized labor and derides the BMG for putting down the underdog it paints the unionized crews to be. --DCrazy talk/contrib 09:27, 14 April 2006 (UTC)


 * We have a right to be "suspicious of BMG's motives"; that said, CMP always have an opportunity to explain themselves. Workers have the right to collectively bargain with employers, and that is as it should be. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.240.122.161 (talk) 14:01, 6 March 2007 (UTC).


 * I agree on the newly-added Las Vegas section. The first two paragraphs about Toronto seem neutral. Cleduc 15:09, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the irrelevant and/or biased information from the Controversy section. I'm not sure the Las Vegas "incident" is even relevant at all, but I left a one-liner in there. --DCrazy talk/contrib 04:49, 19 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Bias creeped in again in the Las Vegas paragraph. "Subjected to"?  Come on.  And it referenced an election that happened today (25 May 2006).  I've reworded and trimmed to meet NPOV.  --DCrazy talk/contrib 02:24, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Missing Instruments
These are other instruments, but not much is known about them. If anyone does know enough about these instruments to write a paragraph under the Instruments headline, please do so. Feel free to add to the list if you come across other unknown instruments, or remove items from the list when more is known about them.JubbaG 17:15, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Quellium Grill
 * Phil Drum
 * Chant


 * I added Paddle Tubulum, Aronophonic, & Electric Dog Toy. The Chant is simply the "E chant" during Endless Column. Ianthegecko
 * Do you think the Chant should be included in the instrument list? I think it's a pretty important aspect of the show; it's used during Paint Drumming, Modern Plumbing, Airport Wands and Chant Jam. JubbaG 18:46, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
 * And good observation with the Electric Dog Toy, I thought it was just feedback from a guitar. JubbaG 21:35, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
 * No, I don't think the chant should be included. It's not really an "instrument"; maybe a character?Ianthegecko 22:12, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
 * And we can't forget the Original Dogulum, belonging to Matt. :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

Mute?
I'm fairly sure that the Blue Men remain mute throughout performances, but are indeed capable of speech. -Agent_Koopa 13:27, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The Blue Men will sometimes speak to die-hard fans in the lobby of the show, so, the actors who play them are definitely not mute. Ianthegecko 02:39, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

The Blue Man character, as distinct from the actors playing them, are apparently mute. Non-issue.

Different Picture?
I think there should be an actual picture of Blue Man Group at the top of the article rather than one of the outside of one of their venues. Ianthegecko 17:07, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I went ahead & did it. Ianthegecko 02:35, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

WHO is Blue Man Group?
Do the original three Blue Men even perform in any shows anymore? It would seem impossible. I don't see anything that relates to this in the article. Jake b 03:52, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * CMP may occasionally pop in to do theatrical shows, but they mostly do promotional work, such as the Pentium commercials, in addition to running Blue Man Productions. Ianthegecko 05:03, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Where are the new products?
I saw a commercial about their products which you can create mini-symphonies about. Anyone able to add to that? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Personjerry (talk • contribs). (taken care of) SpikeJones 03:41, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

toronto
that show is ending sometime in january 2007. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.130.173.38 (talk) 13:24, 19 December 2006 (UTC).

It ended on January 7, 2007. I mentioned that in the "controversy" section.159.33.10.92 21:23, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Expanded intro
I moved the top of the Theatrical Productions section to the main article intro to beef it up. I hope it's at least a start for improving the intro. :) I'm a little concerned that all of the Related Articles are about the union controversies. I'll try to find some other articles to add to that section. Ianthegecko 16:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, the sentence "Additionally, the Blue Man is inscrutably motivated to drum." is kind of dumb sounding and it basically says nothing.

Image
Would someone please get a new image for this article? How about getting one from the press kit from the BMG website? I believe it's request only.
 * I thought the promotional picture of CMP was enough. Guess I was wrong. Ianthegecko 22:05, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * This new picture of Berlin Blue Men is a composite of other pictures, and I think the left two Men are the same guy. The previous picture of founders CMP was of a much better resolution and meaning/importance.  This is one time when I disagree with the "Fair use" rules for replacement.  If a promo pic isn't good enough, I don't know what is.  --Mtjaws 22:50, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Roadtrip Nation video
Chris Wink mentions the Joseph Campbell quote "Follow your bliss" in that video; I clarified it in Themes. Ianthegecko 04:02, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Notable Blue Men?
WP says Fred Armisen from SNL was a blue man. Are there any others that are famous for something other than being a Blue Man? A section on them could be added. --Howdybob 06:47, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Fred Armisen was not a Blue Man. He merely played background drums for them for two years.SpikeJones 12:09, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to unwatch this article now, so if anyone has something profound to add please let me know on my talk page. --Howdybob 22:51, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

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New Picture
We seriously need to get a new head picture up on this article. The current one is total crap and offensive to my eyes. Bmg2282 16:15, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * As long as it isn't the copyvio you uploaded. -Nard 19:46, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

it is centered on a trio of mute performers
Performers are performers. They aren't mute. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.239.183.235 (talk) 09:08, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Mimes aren't performers? News to me.  Thanks for your insight, however. SpikeJones (talk) 11:51, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Instrument description paragraphs?
Some of the instrument descriptions are very similar to those on the official site. Couldn't this be considered copyright infringement? Bradenmcg (talk) 06:38, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Influence?
In terms of their costume, from what or who were they influenced by? Is this a possibility -  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Media Research (talk • contribs) 03:43, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

blue school
All Things Considered, 1 Jan. 2009: program on the group's preschool in NYC, costing $27,000 a student.211.225.37.54 (talk) 12:50, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Lawsuit
This is a notable news story I think is worth including but I'm really at a loss of where to add it? Perhaps a more experienced editor could add this information in somewhere.... [Blue Man Group Allegedly Puts Video Cam Down Spectator's Throat; He Sues]--King0lag (talk) 20:48, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

The KLF
Aside from using the KLF's "Last Train to Trancentral" in their shows, the Blue Man Group's "how to be a rock star" / "rock concert moves" also implicitly references KLF's "The Manual (How to Have a Number One the Easy Way)" .... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.146.7.39 (talk) 02:22, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.blueman.com/experience/instruments. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. NortyNort (Holla) 00:11, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

"Labor history" section too long?
Does the "Labor history" section really need to be as long as it is? This subject is kind of a niche interest, and having labor disputes is hardly unusual for a performance company. 192.119.18.88 (talk) 00:39, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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Blue Man Group(s)?
The article text makes it sound as if there are multiple groups of Blue Men (by listing hiring criteria), but doesn't explicitly state that this is the case. If it is the case, which shows are performed by the original creators and which are not? Jhhays (talk) 20:33, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed there are multiple groups of Blue Men that perform simultaneously at the venue shows, on tours, etc. If I'm not mistaken, the original Blue Men - Phil Stanton, Chris Wink, Matt Goldman - don't perform shows anymore, but I think they do play a major part in running the company as a whole. Harveytwoface999 (talk) 18:59, 12 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, on the 2 times I have gone to see their traveling theatre tour in the U.S., on the playbill, there were listed well more than 3 "Blue Men" although the audience never sees more than 3 at a time. 2602:252:D46:8DF0:908E:73BA:9269:FEA7 (talk) 12:04, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

IMAX feature film
Can't believe that 10 days after Variety announced the BMG feature film nobody had yet added it to the article! 59.167.47.19 (talk) 09:20, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I saw the film actually while looking up show references on IMDB, and saw that, at that time, the movie was in production. Checked back later, saw that it was in post production, and then again, checked in with the BMG company itself to find out what was happening. Apparently there was issues with the release being done, not sure if it was the releasing or distribution company, difference of opinion between them and BMG, or what, but for myself as a fan of BMG, I would still like to see this movie, and if I knew anything at all about the industry (and had the money available to make it happen), I would try to see if there was something that could be done to get this movie out to the world. 2602:252:D46:8DF0:908E:73BA:9269:FEA7 (talk) 12:13, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

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Mime
BMG is listed as a mime act in the mime artist article, but there is no mention of mime in the BMG article. As far as I'm aware they never speak or sing, so I would describe them as mime, however I haven't been able to add them to a suitable category, as the mime categories are "mime artists by nationality", and obviously these are multiple nationalities. Thoughts?--Shantavira|feed me 12:26, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Neutral pov?
This currently reads like promotional material for the group. Danja (talk) 22:27, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

This is one of the absolute worst articles around. Even as promotional material it is a fail: what kind of promoter over the age of 15 would write with such hyperbole and expect it to have a positive effect? The article is devoid of actual information. "Grew out of a collaboration" What does that mean? Did they perform? One of them took the idea? They inspired someone else? Apparently there is a blue man group in every major city (not stated in the article of course, because then it might contain actual information). So what does it mean when "the group" makes a record? Which group? Also note that the article fails to mention what kind of show it is (you know, for those who haven't seen it). Music? Theater? Mime? 2602:306:CEAE:E60:ACF6:5BD2:D95D:497C (talk) 07:44, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

The he story has been told by the creators, Phil, Chris, and Matt, on other medium, and I don't know if that could potentially cause copyright issues or not. To the best of my knowledge, the "blue men" that were performing on the albums were the original three. As far as answering your rhetorical questions about what kind of show, be it music, theatre, or mime, the answer is "yes". 2602:252:D46:8DF0:908E:73BA:9269:FEA7 (talk) 12:09, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * In 2018 it still has the whiff of promotional material. Ashmoo (talk) 09:54, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

"The answer is 'yes'" on the talk page does not improve on the article though does it.Chrisbedford (talk) 19:29, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Fictional "Influences" section
There appears to be a determined vandal who continues to revert to a version of this page which is flat-out not supported by the linked source (https://podtail.com/en/podcast/the-evolver/chris-wink-the-visionary-roots-of-blue-man-group/). The linked interview is 79 minutes long, which the vandal is counting on, because of the inordinate effort involved in listening to this entire recording to determine that nothing in the section in question is supported by it. I have listened to it again in its entirety and have annotated each minute of the relevant part of the recording. Anyone who likes may select any of these timestamps at random and verify with the linked source that my summary of that minute is accurate. I will state unequivocally, there is no mention here of a "street meat" skit, there is no mention of Ubu Roi, there is no mention of Diogenes, Giordano Bruno, Tobias Smollett, or Georg Büchner.

I do not know the vandal's motivations, but the effort involved leads me to believe they may be simply be ideologically opposed to the idea of a free and collaborative encyclopedia. The vandalism didn't contain any mention of Bruce Pearson, James Tyrell, Picasso, Yves Klein, Mehron Makeup, the Blue School, Ken Robinson, Chris Winks' father's being a Professor of Theology-- all of which are discussed in the interview, and which I would think would be mentioned by the vandal if they had added the Influences section with a microgram of good faith. However, that Influences section is fiction, added vandalistically in confirmed bad faith. If I see it come back, I'll undo it again. Thanks for coming to my TED talk. 76.85.36.92 (talk) 04:16, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
 * In reference to my latest reversion, I'll own up that the IP user above was me. As you can see above, I carefully listened to the entire podcast, and the fictional Influences section is not only not supported by the linked podcast, but everything of any actual interest discussed in the podcast is absent from the fictional Influences. Robert lavery (talk) 16:20, 23 September 2020 (UTC)


 * It is good that you are trying to correct the record, but ripping out a ton of material based on ONE source is going to look suspicious to other editors. However, as an uninvolved editor I see two issues with what you are doing in response:
 * You are simply ripping out a ton of text out of the article without replacing it with anything. How about you rewrite that section so that it conforms to the sources available?
 * According to what you wrote above, you are relying on a single source that is an interview with a single member of the group. Are you sure everything in that interview is accurate? Do the other members agree with Chris Wink's memory? Surely as long as Blue Man has been around, there must be other sources to use on its roots.
 * I encourage you to find those sources, add them to the article, and rewrite the problematic section. But don't just delete huge sections of text and expect nobody to react badly to that. At first glance it sure looks like vandalism. --Krelnik (talk) 18:26, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The entirety of the "Influences" section relies on a single source. I'm not relying on that source, which I have so painstakingly debunked as a source for the fictional claims made. That's why I ripped the entire section out: absolutely none of it has any sources whatsoever. I'm not pulling out all that text because of a single source, I'm pulling all that text out because it has NO sources and appears to be completely fictional. The dedicated efforts of its author to restore it despite the complete lack of any credible sources led me to the conclusions I listed above. I appreciate your request that I rewrite the section. However, I am very confident that this is vandalism and misinformation, and I would like someone to perform ANY kind of verification on ANY of the claims made in it and document it here before reverting any part of it. Edited to add: Also, upon examining the other edits made by that IP (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Faggot_voter&diff=prev&oldid=982363953), this is very obviously a vandal. Robert lavery (talk) 23:10, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The latest reversion was made by 2600:387:A:19:0:0:0:3B whose other edits (one, two) can be dismissed as vandalism. Maybe at some point I'll have the time to rewrite this section, but that shouldn't be a precondition for keeping this blatant fiction off Wikipedia. Robert lavery (talk) 13:24, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
 * That IP is a cellular data connection, and it is thus plausible those edits came from other people connected to the same cellular network. Listening to the interview, the influences section is well supported (although extra documentation and sources would be appreciated). Please stop deleting large chunks of the page. 2600:387:A:19:0:0:0:7A (talk) 18:15, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Can you please indicate the timestamp at which the first sourced claim, `The members of Blue Man Group met in 1986 while participating in an underground production of French symbolist writer Alfred Jarry’s Ubu Roi, an absurdist work which inspired many themes which the trio have continued to revisit in their work.`, is made? Thank you. Also, I object to the characterization of this reversion as "deleting large chunks of the page." I am not "deleting large chunks of the page." I am specifically removing one fictitious section which is not supported by any source. Also, the most recent edit that IP made to the 'Faggot voter' page was made within minutes of making this reversion. It is extremely likely to be the same user. Robert lavery (talk) 20:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The last reversions were made by the addresses 2600:387:A:19:0:0:0:3B and 2600:387:A:19:0:0:0:78. These IP addresses, as well as 2600:387:A:19:0:0:0:7A who commented above, all share a ZIP code and are likely to be the same person. I have requested that a third party editor review the original edit from September 2019 which introduced this misinformation. Robert lavery (talk) 03:03, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Making a note that the burden to demonstrate verifiability lies with the editor who adds or restores material, and that when sound recordings are sourced, the citation should include the approximate time at which event or point of interest occurs. My understanding of Wikipedia Biography of Living Persons policy is that poorly sourced material that could damage the reputation of the person in question can and should be removed immediately; this fictitious Influences section includes a made-up skit that is sexually suggestive ("street meat", which is not a real BMG skit) as well as a complete non sequitur anecdote about Diogenes masturbating which is mentioned nowhere in the cited source. Until the claims made in this section can be backed up with verifiable timestamps according to Wikipedia policy, I believe I am well within Wikipedia policy to revert this as many times as the vandal wants to go back and forth with me. Robert lavery (talk) 03:42, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I just listened to the podcast. There's a lot of interesting things in it (the article could mention why the color blue was chosen - how the blue on black is similar to the Earth hanging in outer space, so that the blue men are other but still us), but the text in the article is completely unrelated. This is clear vandalism, so it should be removed per WP:V and WP:BLP, and then we can create a new paragraph that is actually based on the podcast. Gbear605 (talk) 19:01, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Unsubstantiated facts
Just one example: 'Performers, known as "Blue Men", have their skin painted blue' Really? Or are they wearing blue latex gloves and masks? Which is what it looks like. So, pedantic as it sounds, some attribution is called for when making *any* assertion on Wikipedia.Chrisbedford (talk) 19:28, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Here's one source regarding the blue paint. In this interview, around 49:00-53:00, Chris Wink discusses the evolution of their makeup, including how they wound up sourcing from Mehron Makeup, who would customize the makeup for them. If either of those is sufficient, they could be added as citations for the statement that the Blue Man Group paint themselves blue. Robert lavery (talk) 16:22, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Madelinepolson.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 15:59, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Changing Park MGM to Monte Carlo Resort in previous productions
Regarding this point on previous productions: “Las Vegas at the Blue Man Theatre at Park MGM (2012–2015)“

Would it not be correct to say that they performed at the Monte Carlo Resort and Casino? The casino’s re-branding to Park MGM happened after they moved to a different venue at the Luxor. If anything, I think there should be some sort of note to make this clarification because they never performed at the Park MGM. See: Park MGM Phreshwater (talk) 00:39, 22 June 2023 (UTC)