Talk:Blue Shirts Society

Enormous massacre needs a source
The line, "In one case, in Mount Dabie, previously the base of the 4th Red Army in Northern Anhui, more than half a million were massacred." A half million people were massacred in one event and it doesn't have a source, nor can I find it anywhere on the net. Anyone have one? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:47:100:7F50:9DB3:CAC8:A335:E865 (talk) 16:16, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

The article is incorrect
The article is long, but is factually incorrect and pov. The BlueShirts were created when some Nationalist officers saw Fascism as a quick way to remedy China's problems. They were mostly engaged in assasinating pro-Japan officials and communists. However, they were nowhere as efficient or as widespread as the Fascists of Europe. One thing the Kuomintang lacked was the power of mass mobilization. The article looks like it was based on Fragments of the Blue Shirt, published by the PRC. I wouldn't expect anything published in China pertaining to Republican history as npov. The book is a "historic novel" published by a 30years old non-scholar who never went to school, as stated here BlueShirts 21:16, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Your words of "I wouldn't expect anything published in China pertaining to Republican history as npov." is not NPOV itself. Please don't underestimate the intelligence and conscience of some scholars in mainland. I don't deny most of the details coming from this book. But have you read this book?Do you know how much research work this young author had done? If BBS was so clean and simple as you claim, why it was a taboo in Chinese modern history? If you don't believe in any book from mainland, why don't you read books of Professor Lloyd E.Eastman? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Giantcn (talk • contribs)

Lloyd Eastman changed his views in an article published in 1987, following the publication of several Lixingshe memoirs and one book on its history by Deng Yuanzhong. Too bad Lloyd's book Abortive Revolution doesn't reflect this change and keeps on printing the same erroneous opinion. Blueshirts 18:58, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Blueshirt Reading
Johnathan D. Spence, the highly regarded China expert from Yale, characterizes the Blueshirts in his undergraduate staple, The Search for Modern China, as:

Barbara Tuchman in, Stilwell and the American Experience in China, refers to the Blueshirts as, "The Kuomintang's stormtroopers". (Tuchman, p.321)

The least flatteriing portrait is painted by Brian Crozier in, The Man Who Lost China (1976),(Crozier;pp.10-11)

Theodore White's Chapter in, Thunder Out Of China, "Chiang Kai-sheck-The People's Choice" does not get into the Blue Shirts per se, but he does mention the New Life ideology.

For the Sterling Seagrave treatment, you can look at pp.292-294 in The Soong Dynasty

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Maowang (talk • contribs) 05:53, May 7, 2007


 * On your long comment, all I have to say is give me a break, you're beating a dead horse. Every book on Chinese history that labels the blue shirts as "fascists" based this conclusion solely on Lloyd Eastman's article in China Quarterly. The same thing is carried over to Eastman's book Abortive Revolution. I've read many books and when you check the notes section, almost all of them cite the above work by Eastman as reference. Thus, it makes absolutely no difference at all how many references you can drum up with, because all of them are derived from the same work. After some heated discussion with Maria Chang in the China Quarterly, and particularly after the revelation and exposure of the group by former members in the 1980s, Eastman has profoundly changed his views, and this is reflected in an article published in the journal Republican China, now "Comtemporary China" I believe. Research in these areas is always changing, please. Blueshirts 03:37, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

You seem to be trying to blame Eastman for all the research on the Blueshirts. I'm sure Mr. Eastman would be flattered that he could have so much influence and the singular authority. I haven't seen his name in any of the notes. I did see a report from a magazine article from 1936. I also see a book here called "Fascism in China 1925-1938: A Documentary Study, by Michael Lestz and Cheng Pei-kai pp. 311-314. This does not seem to rely on Eastman for any "documentary evidence".

I'm trying to think of where I saw that connection...maybe in Formosa Betrayed or something

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Maowang (talk • contribs) 06:58, May 7, 2007

Unusual emphasis on minor past event
Respectfully I comment such minor historical detail such as Blue Shirts Society is not requiring of such efforts and comprehensive treatments on the Wikipedia Project. Wen Hsing 04:45, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Fascism task force
Looking at the discussion here, it seems that reffering Blue Shirts Society as fascist is controvercial. I decided to add the article to fascism task force, but that does not imply that Blue Shirts Society was fascist.

Sapere aude22 (talk) 14:06, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

More sources
Sapere aude22 (talk) 14:23, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Mention the dates in the intro paragraph so in other articles readers can understand what time frame this is about
The dates "Created March 1932 - Dissolved April 1938" are mentioned in the side panel, but that makes it doesn't show when they are mentioned and hotlinked in other articles and readers have no clue in what time frame this is to be situated and eg I had to come to the article because I assumed they were still active. So mentioning these dates in the intro paragraph isn't that a good practice? , Thy, SvenAERTS (talk) 10:08, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
 * It generally is, but I don't see that information in any of the sources I can access, so I have removed it. If you want more help, change the help me-helped back into a help me, stop by the Teahouse, or Wikipedia's live help channel, or the help desk to ask someone for assistance. Primefac (talk) 11:46, 30 December 2022 (UTC)