Talk:Blue cheese/Archive 1

Comment 1
does anyone know whether blue cheese can go mouldy???
 * I suppose it can. There's nothing preventing two different molds from living in the same cheese. If you leave an opened pack of blue cheese at room temperature for a few days, it is possible that another fungus might infect it, making it inedible. J I P  | Talk 09:25, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Why is blue cheese not gluten free? Cammy 16:39, 17 May 2006 (UTC)


 * They used to create a mold starter culture by placing loaves of bread in a cave. They would then grind up the moldy bread and mix it with the cheese. According to reliable sources it is not necessarily done this way anymore, but the mold still probably needs something to grow in which may also contain gluten, who knows? Better to err on the side of caution. Xrblsnggt 02:40, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

most blue cheeses today would test gluten free. The cheese is made by the addition of a purified culture produced by growing the mold on a malt base. While malt does have some amounts of gluten in it, the separation process of removing the mold from the media, as well as the tiny amounts of mold required to inoculate a vat of cheese means that there is almost none. The total amount of mold added to the vat is similar to the legal limit of gluten (and the mold obviously isn't pure gluten). You are pretty safe eating blue cheese even if you have a very severe food allergy to gluten. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.115.7.130 (talk) 21:48, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

How this article could be improved
216.232.128.50 06:29, 18 January 2007 (UTC)Is or has there ever been blue (bleu)cheese that has been lined with copper wire and electrocuted?
 * Somehow differentiate traditional varieties, newer but well-known varieties and Protected designations of origin from the dozens of contemporary cheeses. Otherwise you will have dozens of blue cheeses listed with no way for a person to get an idea of what the representative set of blue cheeses are.
 * Spell bleu correctly.

Debunking the history of blue cheese
Accounts of Charlemagne and Pliny the Elder are said to indicate that blue cheese may have existed as early as 70 AD or 774 AD. Looking at the accounts, they do not really appear to explicitly mention blue-veined cheeses.

In his Historia Naturalis (70 AD), Pliny the Elder mentions several different varieties of cheeses, some of which are reputed to be blue cheese. Reading the english translation of the passage, there does not seem to be any direct mention of blue cheese. See for yourself: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?lookup=Plin.+Nat.+11.97

Around (774 AD) Charlemagne is said to have savored some kind of mouldy cheese while staying at a monestary in the countryside, whereupon he demanded that some improbable amount of the cheese be delivered to him yearly. This story seems to have doubt cast on it by some sleuth-work: http://arts-sciences.westkingdom.org/charlemagnes_cheese.html. http://heatherrosejones.com/simplearticles/charlemagnescheese.html

Gorgonzola is said to have originated around 879 AD, however some sources say it's blue variant didn't come into play untill the 11th century, right around when roquefort hit the scene. (roquefort is said to have been invented in 1070 according to Encyclopædia Britannica)

The 11th century seems to be a safe time to say that blue cheese existed. It is plausible that people ate moldy cheese before then, but there does not appear to be a reliable, widely-cited source that makes mention of it.

--

"Blue cheeses were very expensive for a brief period in time, due to the lack of mold. Then, when cleanliness was more abandoned and the amount of blue cheese spiked, the cost lessened." It looks to me like the last line here could use a bit more explanation. Cleanliness was more abandoned? Where, how, in what way? At the least a reference for this would be nice!

Dan 90.206.127.249 (talk) 17:48, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * that got in unintentionally during this edit, I thought I caught it all but didn't. thanks for bring it to my attention. -- Nashville Monkey -- Saturday • June 06, 2009 • 20:36
 * The claimed early medieval histories of Roquefort and Gorgonzola are quite unsupported, I think. On the other hand, the debunking of the Charlemagne story is too hasty. Heather Rose Jones's article is good in parts (just as Charlemagne thought the cheese was) but she relies on a translator who wrongly thinks the Latin word "aerugo" means "rind". This doesn't fit the story: (a) because the cheeses have to be cut open to see whether they have this aerugo or not; and (b) in any case why would the bishop, having served Charlemagne with an excellent cheese, try to persuade him that the rind is the best bit of it? In fact "aerugo" in other Latin texts means "rust, verdigris", which is very much the appearance of mould in cheese.
 * I argued this out in Cheese: a global history (2009), and my conclusion is, with all respect to Heather Rose Jones, that this Charlemagne story, though irritatingly vague, really is the first written evidence of anyone appreciating blue cheese. There is certainly nothing earlier. And rew D alby  20:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Blue / Bleu Cheese Salad Dressing
Salad dressing or wing sauce is strictly speaking not a form of blue cheese, but a derivative of it. If you would like to contribute something on the topic, here is the page:
 * Blue cheese dressing

The origins of blue cheese
i beleive that blue cheese comes from blue cows. how about you!

Name of article
The article name is Blue cheese, but the article then calls the cheese bleu. An explanation is in order, I think.

Spelling
Am I correct in thinking that calling it bleu cheese, when in the English speaking world, stems only from pretentiousness or ignorance? (as if French spellings are more sophisticated, or as if blue cheese is all, or essentially, French.) I've seen it frequently, but never in any halfway reliable source. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 136.142.22.218 (talk • contribs).
 * I have never seen it spelled "blue" before in my life, except in cases where the person couldn't be trusted to spell anyway. —Eclipsed Moon 04:10, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I've only rarely seen it spelled "bleu".--RLent 20:19, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Both are correct. Many US producers spell blue cheese in English, Maybe the tendency to spell it "bleu" stems from the history of the cheese in France? Either way, it's a pretty ridiculous discrepancy to waste our time talking about... I have it both ways from many professional sources. I say, let them spell it however they want.

Copper wires?
I have deleted this sentence:


 * Now a days just to get the quick results thin copper wires are been inserted during the aging process of the blue cheese so that the product are derived quickly and the cheese has thin blue line inbetween. The copper reacts with the cheese and forms the moulds in the form of thin blue lines.

It seems to be a prank: surely copper compounds are not an acceptable substitute for the mold, not even as a crude imitation (green coloring would be more effective!). In fact, the amount of copper implied in this method is probably toxic.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.106.23.149 (talk • contribs)


 * The copper is used to persuade the mold to grow. I don't know how it works, but exposing the cheese to the copper somehow helps.  The copper isn't left in place, and the color doesn't come from the copper. Regards, Ben Aveling 18:03, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * According to Stilton cheese they use "stainless steel needles". I think the story of copper rods is an urban legend, but I'd love to be proved wrong. And rew D alby  21:36, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Antibiotic?
Does Blue Cheese have any antibiotic properties? I've heard in a rumour-legend sort of way that, since it contains a form of penicillin, it serves as a mild antibiotic, but I dknpt know whether there's any truth to this. It makes a sort of common-sense sense but 'common sense' is often wrong in a scientific frame.75.62.109.96 (talk) 22:01, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Growing of bacteria
Is it possible to grow Lactobacillus bulgaricus Streptococcus thermophilus Penicillium glaucum Penicillium roqueforti Brevibacterium linens on eg agar-agar or any other non-fat solid (eg skimmed milk) to get a appetizer/condiment without much calories ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.245.176.152 (talk) 15:02, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I guess so, but I would not do that if I were you unless you wanted to be in The Darwin Awards. Montgomery&#39; 39 (talk) 20:08, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

At very least the molds would grow on some malt base. I'm sure you could get the bacteria to grow on something fat free. Their primary metabolisms are all focused on glucose or galactose. Chances are, you wouldn't get any of the goodness that Blue cheese brings to the table. Much of the flavor profiles are caused by the breakdowns of fat by milk and bacterial lipases. This is what gives Blue cheese it's characteristic flavor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shawn Fels (talk • contribs) 02:48, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

allergies ?
If a person is allergic to penicillin, will they also be allergic to blue cheeses? Can anyone find some info on this to add to the article? I think it might be something worth discussing. I realize there are many types of mold within this family and even different cheeses uses different species of the mold in this family. Still, I'm curious. I know I happen to be severely allergic to Gorganzola cheese (I break out in huge red welts if I touch it) but I have safely taken Penicillin all my life. I'll see what I can find myself but perhaps the more knowledgeable wikipedians can add something on this.LiPollis (talk) 16:53, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

mold question
How come (Im really curious please answer smart science people) why this mold is not harmful to us and even healthy, while all the others are bad health wise. Is there other healthy or not bad molds? Do they make bleu cheese out of other molds? Is Bleu cheese secretly very harmful since its moldy? And last random curiousity Is bleu cheese french? With this name how can it not be? If its not what idiot came up with a french name? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.32.31.254 (talk) 17:42, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

There are lots of healthy molds. Penicillium Roqueforti is the most common mold in blue cheese, however other types can be used. Other cheeses commonly use Geotrichum and other types of penicilliums for ripening. When you start to talk about other foods, tempeh (partially fermented soy beans) is colonized with Rhizopus Oligosporus, which does the same thing that mold does in cheese (breaks down starches and proteins). Another very commonly consumed mold is one used to produce sake called Aspergillus oryzae. This is the same mold used in Soy Sauce production and again is used to break down the starch and make the rice and grains more fermentable. There are some bad molds out there. They cause common problems in food because they produce toxins, but generally molds in dairy products are going to be geotrichum, molds in grains are going to be penicillium and aspergillus (aspergillus niger produces a toxin while oryzae is commonly added to foods). The best way to protect yourself is to think of them all as bad, but in reality, many are good.

Penicillium is the source of the discovery of penicillin. The same types of mold as cheese and sausage use. Alexander Flemming grew this mold on a substrate that created an area of inhibition for certain bacteria. This penicillin was discovered.

Blue Cheese is delicious and not in the least bit harmful.

Bleu cheese is French. Usually when English speaking producers make blue cheese they spell it "blue" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shawn Fels (talk • contribs) 03:00, 29 July 2010 (UTC)