Talk:Bo Diddley beat

Beat
I capitalized "beat" when used in double quotes as per grammatical guidelines for titles. Any thoughts? --Mssemantics (talk) 21:52, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Bo Diddley's story of the Bo Diddley beat
In this interview, in the segment from 5:30 - 11:30. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqvx2evI0eE

He claims it's not derived from hambone, but instead was due to his mistake while trying to play Gene Autrey's song "Jingle Jangle". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:87D0:23D0:FCAA:FCDF:B03B:3E2D (talk) 20:45, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Given BD's various accounts, I'm not sure how to handle this. This article doesn't go into how he came up with the beat and only compares it to similar beats, so there really isn't anything that needs to be changed. BTW, in the interview, he says he's 72, but also claims to have heard "Boogie Chillen when he was 12. I guess he wasn't counting on someone doing the arithmetic, but your hypothesis (on the BC talk page) is probably right. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:50, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

List of songs
There are dozens of songs which use a Bo Diddley-style beat. To help meet verifiablity, propose to include only songs that have WP articles that specifically say they use the beat or have an inline citation to a reference that confirms this (see WP:SOURCELIST). —Ojorojo (talk) 16:14, 19 March 2017 (UTC)


 * What about The Beatles' "I Only Want To Dance With You "? Melman1951 (talk) 02:06, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Donna Loren – Smokey Joe's — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.146.12.86 (talk) 06:55, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Dee Clark - Hey Little Girl     Note: the livexlive page shows "Bo Diddley-inspired rocker '(Hey) Little Girl'". I'm a newbie, but it's too complicated for me to add this (sorry). I've been adding for 10-20 years when it was easy to change on the fly, but I guess Wikipedia's constantly improving, tighter style is now a stumbling block for a casual addition by me (& possibly others). I've listed the 2 authors, and the article from livexlive to help whoever fixes this song addition. Thanks. Peter10003 (talk) 14:40, 15 June 2019 (UTC)


 * The livelix.com quote appears to be from AllMusic's Clark bio and doesn't actually say "Bo Diddley beat". Secondhandsongs is on the "Unreliable sources" list (because its "content is user-generated"). I found a better source and will add it. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:21, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

KT Tunstall - "Black Horse and the Cherry Tree"
This is the second sentence in the Wikipedia article on the song: "It is one of many songs that reuses the famous Bo Diddley beat from the influential 1955 song of his own name."

Link to the song's Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Horse_and_the_Cherry_Tree

Here is a video of Tunstall mentioning the influence and the use of the beat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SESTfM2IUMg

Here is a laundry list of articles from what any reasonable person would consider "reputable sources" that describe the Bo Diddley beat that underpins the verses, and explicitly list the Bo Diddley beat as a feature therein: [1] https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=1018 [2] https://www.ukeboxlessons.com/songsheet-view/?myvar=Black%20Horse%20and%20the%20Cherry%20Tree [3] https://www.guitarworld.com/acoustic-nation/acoustic-nation-lesson-looping-basics-using-kt-tunstalls-method [4] https://www.kpbs.org/news/2019/jan/29/live-belly-kt-tunstall/ [5] https://music.britishcouncil.org/the-selector/events/from-the-archive-kt-tunstall [6] https://www.theguardian.com/music/2005/may/13/kttunstall [7] http://www.covermesongs.com/tag/simple-minds

As to the song's relevance, according to its own Wikipedia article as well, the song reached #20 on the US Billboard Hot 100, #4 in US Adult Contemporary (Billboard), and topped the Adult top 40 and Adult Alternative charts (Billboard), among a host of other chart performances throughout 2005-2007.

Does this meet apparently utterly ridiculous standards for listing, or is this a genuinely impossible standard that's been created?


 * It may be beneficial to review WP:Identifying Reliable Sources. Sources, such as another WP article, user-generated/self-published blog-type sites, etc. are not considered reliable. All of the other songs listed have sources that specifically identify the beat, so it is obviously not a "genuinely impossible standard". —Ojorojo (talk) 13:23, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

China Grove
China Grove by The Doobie Brothers sounds like it uses the Bo Diddley Beat. The Mo-Ja&#39;al (talk) 06:20, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I searched again and didn't find any reliable sources to confirm this. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:28, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Who Do You Love
Somewhat ironically, Bo Diddley's own original 1956 version doesn't use the beat, but the 1978 cover by George Thorogood and the Destroyers does. It's even referenced in the lyrics—"Snakeskin shoes, baby put 'em on your feet, got the good time music with a Bo Diddley beat." —Lanway (talk) 10:13, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Yup – the song article explains it ("Who Do You Love?") and includes Thorogood's line. Songs Diddley wrote and covered by others are not included on this list (too many). —Ojorojo (talk) 17:28, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Although I understand the importance of "citing proper sources", has anybody considered that perhaps the fact that anybody who knows what the Bo Diddley beat is can easily listen to a song and immediately verify that it has the beat? I do not see the point of needing some official source to confirm this when the existence of a song itself is more than enough evidence for the point. There should be no need to cite a source on something that anybody competent can go and prove, much like nobody needs a source on the fact that most people have ten fingers. If this weren't the case, a competent person would be able to disprove it and remove a misplaced song. It just seems like the usefulness of the list on this article is being massively diminished by only allowing the listing of songs that a reputable source has compiled, especially with the massive expanse of songs that are out there.
 * Rather than go into a long explanation of why verifiability is a WP core content policy, I added an album review that mentions the "propulsive Bo Diddley beat that drives 'Billy Bones and the White Bird'." Time better spent! —Ojorojo (talk) 13:25, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

That compromise works for me, thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bongoboron (talk • contribs) 18:39, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

A variation of 3-2 clave?
"a variation of the 3-2 clave" - A variation?! I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean. No, it's exactly the same rhythm as the most common clave rhythm, the 3-2 son clave. Often known in the anglosphere as just "clave". "A variation" would usually mean it's changed somehow, but it's not changed at all, they're the same rhythm. The sound file on the page illustrating it could equally well, and probably is, used to illustrate the 3-2 son clave. 122.148.184.131 (talk) 07:02, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * The quote in the lead from Michael Campbell describes it as "a slightly altered version of the clave rhythm". Reliable sources are needed for other claims. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:01, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
 * You sound on this page like you're good at wikipedia bureaucracy, but know nothing of the subject. I guess wikipedia needs both - editors and people who know something of the subject. "The beat has been described as essentially the Afro-Cuban clave rhythm or based on the clave or a variation thereof." is a truly terrible sentence, a confused mess apparently trying to cover all bases but signifying little. The next Campbell paragraph is good though. =)
 * The main difference between 3-2 clave and the BDB, which is not really mentioned currently, that in Cuban music, the clave is played solely on clave sticks, cowbell, jam block etc, or sometimes not played but assumed - but in its application to rock/pop in the Bo Diddley beat, is played on the guitar, bass, and/or drums, with very different effect. The rhythm is the same, but in Cuban music usually it's one of several overlaid rhythms forming an interlocking mesh, while the Bo Diddley rhythm is usually the only rhythm being played, dominating the music. It's taking one element from the several in a salsa groove and making a beat solely from that. 122.148.184.131 (talk) 04:56, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree that calling it "a variation" is incorrect and confusing. The "Bo Diddley Beat" is exactly the same as the 3-2 son clave, aka "the clave". Maybe this source is reliable enough? "The 3–2 son clave has also been called the “Bo Diddley Beat” because of its use by Bo Diddley in the 1950s." The Michael Campbell quote is probably referencing some other clave rhythm; for example, he might actually be saying "The Bo Diddley Beat [aka the 3-2 son clave] is a slightly altered version of [whatever other clave rhythm I was just talking about]."2603:6000:D900:549E:9C7A:D1CE:8947:42D7 (talk) 15:36, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, the preview for Campbell's book doesn't include the page where his quote appears. But speculation about what "he might actually be saying" is not helpful. recently changed "variation" to "a diminished version", but did not provide a source. Hutchinson's website appears to be self-published. Does he meet the "Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established subject-matter expert, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications" exception at WP:SELFPUBLISH? A quick googlebook search doesn't show any results. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:26, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Added some reliable sources that explain it further. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:09, 6 May 2023 (UTC)