Talk:Bob's your uncle/Archive 1

Added a source
I added a BBC radio show that has a trivia bit about Arthur Balfour. Cocomaan (talk) 22:24, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

2007-02-1 Automated pywikipediabot message
--CopyToWiktionaryBot 01:07, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Alternate Source
[Contrib content removed as copyvio; see below in this section.] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.106.152.27 (talk) 20:40, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The two theories are in the article - slightly less elegantly expressed. I have placed the qualification about usage before 1937 in the article.  Please feel free to edit the article yourself :-) --Matilda talk 21:51, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I have removed the text of the first contrib in this section. It is essentially what was removed from the article as a presumed copyvio. After inspecting a page at each of the sites with versions of it, i conclude that the claims
 * By Natalya Belinsky, "Fluent English Educational Project" and "Copyright © 2003-2009 by TranslationDirectory.com"
 * at Glossary of Colloquialisms (Starting with "B") amount to a claim of authorship of a compilation (that probably violates its sources' copyrights).
 * However, at Glossary of Colloquialisms Belinsky cites abt 7 websites and 2 print works as sources; one of those sites is "Bob’s Your Uncle".
 * That page claims "World Wide Words is copyright © Michael Quinion, 1996–2009. All rights reserved." Virtually all sites that use the text and cite a source for it refer to that URL; many of them -- even many that do not cite a source -- attribute the question it addresses to "Florence C Goold" as Quinion does. Quinion states on that page "Page created 12 Dec 1998 [and] Last updated 5 Mar 2004". --Jerzy•t 04:51, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Moving to delete
I've received no response to my flagging of this article, so I presume that there are no editors currently working on it who believe it could become more encyclopaedic. I think that "Bob's your uncle" is a reasonable candidate for deletion under WP:NOT. There is already a redirect page to works using this phrase, so either we need to decide that the page is encyclopaedic, or it is time for deletion. I'm going to nominate now, as I doubt that this message alone is going to stimulate any debate about the future for this article. I don't believe that speedy deletion or proposed deletion would be appropriate here, if this article is going, we should discuss it properly. Howfar (talk) 14:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

All Sir Roberts
IIRC There was also the phrase "All Sir Roberts" meaning "all tidy; everything in its place", a reference (I think) to Lord Frederick Roberts and (I guess) his supposed predilection for orderliness. This might have some bearing on the etymology for the phrase "Bob's your uncle" given here. I can't find a ref for this offhand, though. Herostratus (talk) 17:29, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Second Deletion
I could be out of line, but this was nominated for deletion a year ago and no one has come to defend the article as being encyclopedic. I think this should be deleted.

129.170.241.133 (talk) 13:43, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Earliest use in print -- The Spectator: Volume 23 1850
Perhaps somebody can find the full context, page reference etc. It seems to be in response to a competition, and includes several obviously-well-known phrases. Alanf777 (talk) 22:14, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Not only well-known, but composed entirely of cliches. Alanf777 (talk) 22:26, 27 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Deleted some probably-irrelevant comments .. Alanf777 (talk) 22:56, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Nor has it escaped my notice that this eliminates all the other explanations : for instance, "One theory is that the phrase refers to Lord Frederick Roberts (1832–1914)" -- he would have been only 18. Only a derivation from "all is bob" survives. Alanf777 (talk) 22:31, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The entire volume seems to be at http://books.google.com/books?id=h8E-AQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=peasy&f=false .. but the text isn't searchable. I'll report back with page number and extended quote. Alanf777 (talk) 22:35, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Search IS working in the full volume, but BYU isn't showing. Alanf777 (talk) 22:44, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Now I'm confused ... a search for "competition" doesn't yield anything relevant. Alanf777 (talk) 22:49, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The google date of 1850 seems very spurious. I added a warning. It might be better to delete the section. Alanf777 (talk) 23:09, 27 April 2012 (UTC)


 * This is the search that got me there : https://www.google.com/search?q=%22bob's+your+uncle%22&btnG=Search+Books&tbm=bks&tbo=1#q=%22bob%27s+your+uncle%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=GC-bT6aOH6Hg2gX8_rWYDw&ved=0CCIQpwUoBA&source=lnt&tbs=cdr:1%2Ccd_min%3A%2Ccd_max%3A1%2F1%2F1851&tbm=bks&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=5a0cd1442a5b5fda&biw=1280&bih=823  Alanf777 (talk) 23:48, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

I searched for the barely-visible headline "beating the retreat" and managed to find the actual date -- 1983. So I moved the section and downgraded the section title to "spurious earliest use" ... but I think it's best to leave it in so that nobody else "discovers" it. Alanf777 (talk) 23:19, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Delete me instead of the article
Arrgh, there was a discussion and no decision was reached, I missed that link at the top of the page. Please ignore idiots like me.

129.170.241.133 (talk) 13:50, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

It would be a pity to delete useful information. I came to this article as I am currently editing Arthur Balfour - I'm aware that twee explanations about the origins of words and phrases are usually just entertaining myths, but I wasn't aware of the old phrase "all bob". Wikipedia is actually quite useful for debunking popular myths in this way. Maybe it should be merged into an article on folk etymologies or popular legends about the origins of phrases.Paulturtle (talk) 11:03, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

May I weigh in against deleting this article. For reasons which are probably too eccentric and personal to go into here in much detail, I have found this article, however imperfect it may be, to be an exceptionally useful one for my own research purposes. But maybe it's relevant to spell out a little bit more of my 'eccentric reasons' here in response to the argument that it should be deleted because Wikipedia is not a dictionary. My point is that this is no ordinary expression, because its apparent connection to Arthur Balfour necessarily also indirectly connects it to the Balfour Declaration, and thus to the possible causes of the Holocaust, and to the rebirth of Israel, and thus also to Biblical and other prophecies and speculations about 'the end times', 'the Rapture', Doomsday, Armagedon, nuclear Holocausts, nanotechnology and Grey Goo, Artificial Intelligence and the Technological Singularity, a possible runaway Greenhouse Effect, the Mayan 2012 alleged end of the world, and so on ad infinitum, topics which are of interest (and/or a source of amusement/entertainment) to many people, presumably including many Wikipedia readers, regardless of whether or not other people think them 'all crazy superstitious nonsense'. So I would hate to see it deleted, thereby depriving others of its benefits, and probably also making it less likely that additional useful information on the subject will ever come to my attention. Tlhslobus (talk) 11:49, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
 * All of that may apply to articles about Arthur Balfour or the Balfour Declaration but not at all to this article, which merely speculates that some phrase has some connection to Arthur Balfour. -- 70.109.45.74 (talk) 20:14, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

More Roberts
Someone added it to the article. Whilst trying to confirm I found these links. Listing for later perusal. —Quiddity (talk) 00:58, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Point of Divergence By Graham Tottle google books
 * jerrypournelle forum mentions the citable Eric Partridge's "Dictionary of Catch Phrases"

Bernard?
I suppose "Bernard's your uncle" is just a variation of this? Any other varieties? --Oop (talk) 23:31, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

What about this explanation?
It goes back to the war in Afghanistan in the late 1800’s when the power of the British Raj was strong. The most feared, brave and brutal soldier in the whole British Empire forced his way through the Khyber Pass and took Kabul. That man was Lord Frederick Roberts. He imposed a ruthless martial law there. On one day, 87 Afghan soldiers were hanged in the public square. Buildings, markets and villages were destroyed and hundreds of Afghan people were killed. This man, this murderous bastard, was so kind to his own soldiers that they called him uncle Bobs. It was said that if he was in charge, then everything would be well. http://blog.listingslab.com/2006/04/24/the-origin-of-%E2%80%98bobs-your-uncle%E2%80%99/ CapnZapp (talk) 12:19, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * That explanation seems to have been taken from the novel Shantaram. I have no idea if it has basis in fact. Kjetilho (talk) 11:13, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I came to this page to see if the explanation in Shantaram was true, it sounded rather dubious. Hughtcool (talk) 02:45, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Seems to me that the explanation in Shantaram has been written down here as if it was fact. Totorotroll (talk) 20:53, 20 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Since this has been flagged for a source since 2012, I am dropping it. If anyone disagrees of course it may simply be restored, but after years with no source, it seems spurious.Unfriend15 (talk) 05:20, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

...¨have suggested¨....
I summarized the edit where i split the section into 2 'graphs with
 * /* Origin */ ¨have suggested¨ is a refusal to claim the origin is known. The rest of the section is either independent of that, or arose out of the origin-myth, not out of an established origin, and needs a separate topic sentence.

The original 'graph's cluster of notes at the end of its last sent suggest that that the refs (whose content i've not seen) claim to collectively document the whole section, and not just what i've turned into the latter of 2 'graphs as IMO i have left it appearing! Someone could examine the timing of the addition of the notes, but likely access to the sources will be what it takes for someone to do more than reinforce the likely impression that the first 'graph of the section is un-sourced and that the sources are both relevant to the second 'graph! --Jerzy•t 10:03, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

SOURCES?
This article appears to be hearsay, opinion and trivia. It needs sources and rewriting to be of any value at all. Right now, it's just yet more Wikiality. Removed a spam link too.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.131.114 (talk) 03:10, 14 December 2007
 * I agree that this should be deleted as Wikipedia is not a dictionary.--h i s  s p a c e   r e s e a r c h 00:39, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Dictionary? "Bob's your uncle" is an expression, not a word. Also, the fact that there is no known definitive etymology is itself an interesting fact. There is an article on "mass", which is merely a word defined in the dictionary, but no one suggests deleting it. Think about "Dark Matter": would you delete that article on the basis that nobody knows what Dark Matter is nor where it came from? Another argument in favour of keeping it is that it is a British expression that is rarely used outside the British Commonwealth. In Canada, it is only used for a "foreign" effect, like saying "y'all" instead of "you" (American southern slang). So this article is informative for those outside the UK who've never heard it except when a British character in a movie says it.77Mike77 (talk) 14:00, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Surely not encyclopaedic?
I'm going to tag this as being not encyclopaedic. As HisSpaceResearch said way back in 2007, Wikipedia is not a dictionary. In common with other non-encyclopaedic articles on Wikipedia, it seems mainly a spawning point for speculative or irrelevant content. Howfar (talk) 20:20, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

See my comment in the Sources section above. Dictionaries define words; this is a phrase.77Mike77 (talk) 14:02, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

In the US, BOB stands for "Bottom of Bascart"
An employee might ask another if they have seen BOB, which means have they looked under the shopping cart (trolley in the UK) to see if there are any other items that haven't been paid for.108.38.34.26 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:16, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
 * My love and i have between us thoroly learned the cultures of 3 major regions of the US without ever encountering the term ″Bascart″. This source raises the possibility that they are a proprietary creature of Kroger, while another evidences Bascart-naive Yanks from several regions.  (BTW, retrieving carts from the parking lot is something every intellectual should experience once, for insight into the sorts of things that hold the world together. Parking lots built on hills, and snow accumulations or freezing rain, belong to the advanced course.) --Jerzy•t 10:51, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

I've never heard nor read the word "bascart" before this. I strongly doubt this etymology. And how could a shopping cart be an uncle?77Mike77 (talk) 14:07, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

When did Balfour get the plum job?
Was it 1887 or 1900? (feel free to delete this comment when the ambiguity is resolved.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.173.97.201 (talk) 21:57, 15 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Chief Secretary for Ireland in 1887 then succeeded his uncle as PM in 1902. I'm sure that's not the origin of the phrase though - the article is almost useless as it stands.Paulturtle (talk) 15:19, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Extra Source
Patrick O'Brian uses 'and Bob's your uncle' several times in his Aubrey/Maturin series which is set in the Napoleonic era, roughly 1795-1820. I like to give him credit for being historically correct. (184.57.227.191 (talk) 10:33, 20 June 2017 (UTC)) 'Bob's your uncle' - the meaning and origin of this phrase Zell Faze (talk) 17:26, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
 * The first appearance of the phrase in print is 1924. It is highly unlikely that it was used in the Napoleonic era. --ABehrens (talk) 21:04, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Use in 1891
Here is a documented source for the phrase:

The earliest instance of bob’s your uncle that I have found is from Cuts and Thrusts, by ‘Excalibur’, published in the East Aberdeenshire Observer (Peterhead, Scotland) of Thursday 12th November 1891:

Will the general body of Feuars* be prepared to sacrifice, not only the enhanced rent, but all the recent outlay and improvements? Will they be ready to throw away an appreciably large portion of their revenue in obedience to the behests of a few social cranks, who, as is their nature, would have small scruple in sacrificing any interest which might even be supposed to conflict with their narrow and prejudiced notions? Teetotalers, as a rule, are always to be viewed with a certain amount of suspicion. The very principle—if principle it can be called—which differentiates them from the great mass of ordinary humanity, proves that there is a specially weak point in their natures, that they are morally and mentally lop-sided, and therefore “worth the watching.” It is a relief to know that the lop-sided Feuars will be well watched while Bailie Ross sits at the Board, and to him I with confidence address the counsel “Go it as you have begun! Bob’s yer Uncle!”


 * feuar: in Scotland, one who holds land in feu — feu: the tenure of land in perpetuity in return for a continuing annual payment of a fixed sum of money to the owner of the land.

Online source: https://wordhistories.net/2018/06/04/bobs-your-uncle/

This should go in the article. Note it occurs a few years after the 1887 appointment. Note too, that a comic review of the type mentioned in the 1920’s, is likely to use already-existing catch phrases. 2A00:23C7:E284:CF00:1CCF:981A:91A6:9727 (talk) 08:05, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Another Origin - Purely Speculative
I have always assumed that "Bob's your uncle" is what the (permanently or temporarily) single mom says to the kid when it comes down to breakfast and finds a strange man sitting at the table in his undershirt.

An inconvenient problem neatly tied up with a lie.

24.22.22.228 (talk) 06:35, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
 * That doesn't explain the meaning the phrase has had these past few decades: "There you go, easy isn't it!!" or "QED!!". Akld guy (talk) 00:15, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I came into this talk page confused that no one mentioned this sexual connotation, which I’ve heard British people explain is the predominant way it’s used in their circles. Mostly as in “he’d pop in for a quick Bob’s your uncle.” So maybe regional...—Mrcolj (talk) 13:07, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Have also heard “a bit of how’s-your-father”. That is a catch phrase from an old time comedian, and nothing to do with what is meant. Think the usage is to throw in some random common phrase so as not to be too explicit, counting on the context to make the meaning clear. 213.205.240.148 (talk) 08:16, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Variants
I added "Bob's your uncle and Fanny's your granny" since that's the only one I'd known until earlier today (when I saw the aunt version in a Facebook thread). Online the granny version appears at https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/thread #3,012 Dec 16, 2019 and https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=18/12/11/2010230 December 12 2018 4:41AM by NotSanguine and elsewhere.

I added the yer variant spelling for completeness. Mcljlm (talk) 15:13, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

First appearance in print
Contrary to the current text and the cited source, there is an earlier appearance of the phrase in print, in The Stage of 11 January 1923, as the title of a new song, in a full page advert for Herman Darewski Publishing Ltd. Even the date for the Dundee advert is wrong, as it ran in at least five editions of the newspaper prior to 19 June 1924. Nick Cooper (talk) 09:28, 25 February 2022 (UTC)


 * According to the third reference (wordhistories.net) the first appearance of the phrase is from 1891, so the section on Origin needs to be revised. Davidimai (talk) 19:02, 24 April 2023 (UTC)