Talk:Bob Dylan/Archive 11

Harvard errors
There are three items in the bibliography which appear not to be cited - Jim Miller, Paul Williams, Patrick Humphreys. Someone more familiar with the article might be able to track them down through the history etc much more quickly than I could. - Sitush (talk) 00:57, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
 * The Jim Miller book relates to Footnote 52: Janet Maslin on the Freewheelin' Bob Dylan album. The Patrick Humphries and Paul Williams books do not appear to be cited. Perhaps they should be removed from the bibliography? Mick gold (talk) 21:42, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I am not sufficiently familiar with the subject matter to comment. Someone else may know whether it is worth moving the two uncited sources into a Further Reading section or whether they are not worth retaining at all. Are the writers authorities? Do those works add anything to what we say? That sort of thing. - Sitush (talk) 23:26, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
 * These books are already listed in Bob Dylan bibliography—an article that was created in lieu of a Further Reading section—so I think uncited books can be removed from Sources. Mick gold (talk) 08:01, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Categorization.
Bob is presently in 69 categories, just taking one word, "guitarists" he's from Minnesota, from New York City, from California, American acoustic, American blues, American male, 20th-century American, 21st-century American, American rock. Some should definitely be removed because they are in both parent and sub-cat. Anybody got any idea how to stop category creep and abut removing surplus? as you started me thinking about this... --Richhoncho (talk) 17:11, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, some of these categories keep him from being in more (e.g. Category:American guitarists and Category:Musicians from Minnesota intersect for Category:Guitarists from Minnesota). Simply put, there is no solution as large category schemes like Category:American guitarists need to be diffused (that scheme has about 7,000 members--clearly, they shouldn't all be in one category). There is more than one diffusion scheme (century, state or city, genre/style, and sex). The problem that Bob Dylan has ~70 categories is a product of the fact that other categories can't have several thousand members. And for what it's worth, while 70 is a lot, it's not quite unnavigable, especially if they are grouped--alphabetical order will do for most of them. I'm happy to entertain other solutions but I think this is simply intractable if we are to have a category scheme: either some categories will become wildly bloated to several thousand entries or we can only diffuse them using precisely one scheme or some articles will end up with dozens of categories. ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:28, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Also, regarding his geography: he's clearly from Duluth originally, is notorious for being in New York (City)'s folk scene, and his primary residence has been Malibu for years or decades. It's appropriate and even necessary to categorize him as from those places. He also played music across two centuries, so he's a guitarist and singer in both of those. Also, since he's a writer, he's a writer across three localities and two centuries. Etc. I don't see how we could lessen the number of categories. ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:32, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 April 2017
Change "Elston Gunnn [sic]" to "Elston Gunnn" 76.218.104.86 (talk) 00:30, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I did it. Thank you for the suggestion. Bus stop (talk) 00:55, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

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 * InternetArchiveBot checked. Rolling Stone edit = not good, reverted. Uncut edit = good. Mick gold (talk) 13:48, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

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The lead sentence
According to MOS:BLPLEAD, the lead sentence should describe a person's positions and roles. "A Nobel Prize laureate" is clearly not one of them. It is not what defines Dylan, and therefore should not be included in the first sentence. For more examples, see fellow Nobel laureates in Literature Ernest Hemingway, George Bernard Shaw, and W. B. Yeats, all of which are featured articles. Artoasis (talk) 03:01, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree. Dylan's status as a Nobel Prize laureate is properly mentioned in the third paragraph of the lead. Surely it is unnecessary to mention the Nobel Prize twice in the lead. Mick gold (talk) 05:04, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Dylan's case is somewhat of an anomaly, but the removal of "Nobel Prize winner" was among the least of my concerns with the changes that were made to the lede. It's not a big deal to me if it's removed, although I'm not in favor of it. The controversy over the choice of Dylan, as well as the ensuing theatrics of his pretending not to notice seem to make it notable enough to mention in the 1st paragraph. Joefromrandb (talk) 05:10, 27 July 2017 (UTC)


 * On second thought, I've removed it, at least for the time being. Although I'm in favor of IAR in this situation, guidelines should apply until there's consensus otherwise. Joefromrandb (talk) 05:44, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Edit on "Christian period"
Your recent edit does not seem to have led to a stable citation. Can you fix it? Thanks, Mick gold (talk) 05:26, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Done. It was a typo in the word "book". Like you, I can sometimes puzzle over the wording of the fault notices - this one read: "Template:Cite bopok", which looks kinda meaningless, but showed that the template was worded incorrectly - it should, of course, read "Template: Cite book" Thanks for the heads up!  SilkTork  ✔Tea time  18:15, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the fix! Mick gold (talk) 04:44, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

TFA rerun
Any objections to throwing this article into the current pile of potential TFA reruns (currently being developed at User:Dank/Sandbox/2)? Any cleanup needed? The esquire.com link is dead. - Dank (push to talk) 04:58, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Link is now fixed. Thanks Mick. - Dank (push to talk) 15:11, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Pulitzer Prize error
Dylan's Pulitzer Prize Special Citation was awarded by Columbia University on the recommendation of the Pulitzer Prize Board. (This can be verified in the original press release: http://archive.pulitzer.org/files/2008PulitzerPrizesList.pdf.) The nominating juries offer recommendations but do not grant the awards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.39.184.68 (talk) 18:28, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Bob Dylan's Special Award is listed on the Pulitzer Prize website page of Special Awards and Citations: see link . He is listed alongside other recent recipients of Pulitzer Special Awards: Hank Williams, John Coltrane and Ray Bradbury. Dylan is listed on Pulitzer Prize website page "2008 Pulitzer Prizes". See link . Dylan's Pulitzer Prize Special Citation was accepted on Dylan's behalf by his son, Jesse Dylan, from Richard Oppel, Co-chair of the Pulitzer Prize Board. See link . I am not clear what point you are making. Mick gold (talk) 13:18, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 31 December 2017
In the Origins section Little Richard is linked twice in two paragraphs in a row. Unnecessary and distracting so the second link should be removed. 2600:1001:B117:6089:F520:2F22:76AF:FC07 (talk) 20:57, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Gulumeemee (talk) 03:52, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

New paragraph of Lead
Initially I was tempted to delete the long paragraph added by Mr. Prez because it went against the Wikipedia guidelines for the style of the Lead:


 * The lead section should briefly summarize the most important points covered in an article in such a way that it can stand on its own as a concise version of the article. The reason for a topic's noteworthiness should be established, or at least introduced, in the lead (but not by using subjective "peacock terms" such as "acclaimed" or "award-winning" or "hit")… Editors should avoid lengthy paragraphs and overly specific descriptions – greater detail is saved for the body of the article.

There were a lot of peacock terms and it seemed to be an over-long paragraph. Then I thought it might be more constructive to edit the paragraph and reduce it in length, as I have done. I would like to know whether other editors of this article think this para is a good addition to the Lead. Mick gold (talk) 09:31, 30 January 2018 (UTC)


 * I would support the inclusion of Mick gold's edited version of the paragraph. It summarizes the various phases of Dylan's musical career; previously this summary was not present, so it could be a good addition. Moisejp (talk) 16:32, 3 February 2018 (UTC)


 * I noticed it seemed long too and then found this on the talk page - perhaps there would be a natural place to end the lead after the end of the second paragraph - "...his songwriting is considered his greatest contribution." End (after that it's a bit detailed/long for a lead). Objectiveap (talk) 18:46, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

why no mention of soy bomb
probably the most significant dylan-related incident of the past 30 years, come on guys --Roman Dog Bird (talk) 20:03, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
 * It is mentioned at Michael Portnoy. The "incident" may have been significant for Portnoy's career, but it was not at all signficant for Dylan's.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 09:46, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Agree with Maunus. Of no significance in Dylan's career. Mick gold (talk) 07:11, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 July 2018: "Painter" seems limiting considered Dylan's visual art output
Please change painter to artist. (In the first sentence.) Dylan's artistic practice involves several media besides painting, like sculpture (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2016/09/08/this-26-foot-long-bob-dylan-sculpture-will-welcome-visitors-at-national-harbor-casino/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.eacf00a4107b), photographic manipulation/appropriation art (https://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/14/arts/design/revisionist-art-thirty-works-by-bob-dylan.html), experimental film ("Eat the Document," "Renaldo and Clara"), and various other formats like prints and silkscreens (http://www.bobdylanart.com/standard-2017.asp). Defining his art practice on the first line of the entry as "painter" seems limiting and inaccurate given the scope of his visual art output. Music4airports (talk) 17:43, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Maybe I'm just grumpy, but calling Dylan a "painter" or an "artist" has always seemed like calling Einstein a violinist - yes, he did play the violin, but no one would care were it not for his scientific fame. Similarly, would this art really matter without Dylan's name attached? Surely no one would endure his movies otherwise! I'd be happy just calling him a singer-songwriter and icon of his time. That's his notability right there.Brianyoumans (talk) 20:03, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I think you absolutely have a point that compared with his other notable activities his art practice might not belong in the first line of his biography. The reception of his work has been mixed and it's hard to argue that he's most notable for his art practice. On the other hand, he has spent a large chunk of the 21st century engaged in visual art, often as much or more than writing new music or working on his prose output. And he does have some heavy-hitter art-world champions like John Elderfield, Larry Gagosian and Richard Prince, who have all vouched for his importance as a visual artist (though his gallerist, Gagosian, obviously would be biased). I would say that "artist" might or might not belong in that first line, but the current "painter" is definitely misleading given the scope of his art practice.-Music4airports (talk) 20:54, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅ - "artist" is definitely more accurate/better than "painter". Fish +Karate 12:59, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Music4airports (talk) 15:49, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 August 2018
'Bob Dylan is also known as being one of the 10 musicians of Disney Character Aladdin (Disney character)'' Adfarrel (talk) 14:05, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Please provide evidence of notability (if any). . . Mean as custard (talk) 14:29, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  Programming Geek talk to me 16:31, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Dylan recorded a version of Dean Martin's Return to Me
Here I've started a discussion for you, you can make your case here. The issue here is I reverted this addition as non-notable, thinks otherwise. Good luck. - FlightTime  ( open channel ) 12:34, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Quite, should the article record the first time Dylan played a Guthrie song? Or a Beatle song? First he played a blues song? It's an interesting fact, but as far as WP goes, it's pure trivia. --Richhoncho (talk) 13:03, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Dylan on keyboards?
There has been discussion and editing around the issue of whether keyboards should be listed in info box as a Dylan instrument, along with guitar and harmonica. For the record, this was the last time this question was discussed in Dylan Talk: Mick gold (talk) 04:44, 21 November 2018 (UTC)


 * I reverted my inital revert four minutes afterwards, due to the discussion you have linked to. Cheers, -  FlightTime Public  ( open channel ) 12:25, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Grammy Awards
The article claims, towards the end of the opening section, that Bob Dylan has 11 Grammy Awards. The Grammy Website lists 10:

https://www.grammy.com/grammys/artists/bob-dylan — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jelleecat (talk • contribs) 17:58, 7 December 2018 (UTC)


 * This seems to be a valid point, I have changed article to 10. Mick gold (talk) 04:13, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 December 2018
Never Ending Tour section: On October 4, Dylan began his US tour in Phoenix;[397] it is scheduled to end in Philadelphia on December 3.[396]

On October 4, Dylan began his US tour in Phoenix;[397] and ended in Philadelphia on December 3.[396] 217.39.53.64 (talk) 14:41, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Danski454 (talk) 20:43, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

"Romantic relationships" section
Should Clydie King be added? See https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/obituaries/clydie-king-dead.html. Acwilson9 (talk) 19:56, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Bob Dylan, Robert Dylan,
There seems to be an edit war over which is correct, with even the occasional Zimmerman thrown in for good measure. I have two opinions, only one really matters at the moment, can we have an agreement here before it is changed again? Edit wars help nobody. Cheers. --Richhoncho (talk) 11:21, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * From the article: "in August 1962: he legally changed his name to Robert Dylan". "Bob" is a nickname, short for "Robert". MOS:NICKNAME states that subjects are introduced by their legal name and not by hypocorisms. This is the same practice as on Ringo Starr, Paul McCartney, David Bowie etc, so why are we making an exception for Bob Dylan? Ilovetopaint (talk) 12:13, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm not taking sides, I'm merely asking that we agree on this page before more edit warring. But if you are going to ignore that polite request, why should others adhere to the request? --Richhoncho (talk) 12:25, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Because nobody who has reverted to "Bob Dylan" has posed any counterargument, let alone one that's consistent with MOS:NICKNAME. Ilovetopaint (talk) 13:18, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I left the page as it was, which is the correct procedure when pointing out these things - to revert and put a notice on would have made my position untenable. No matter, there appears to be a discussion now, which is what I really needed. --Richhoncho (talk) 14:02, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * It looks totally ridiculous to not even mention "Bob" in the first sentence? Theroadislong (talk) 13:24, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Do you think it looks ridiculous on Bob Geldof, Bob Marley, or Bob Saget? If yes, consider opening an RfC on the issue of the "Bob" hypocorism on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Biography. If no, then that's probably because "Robert Dylan" in itself is a weird name. And that's not Wikipedia's problem to "correct". Ilovetopaint (talk) 13:29, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes it does, but if that is what the guidelines say I guess we are stuck with it. Theroadislong (talk) 13:34, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * We assume common sense. If the article is titled Bob Dylan and the lede describes him as Robert Dylan why do you think we need anything else? Bob is a very common hypocorism for Robert. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:06, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

How about: Robert Dylan (known professionally as Bob Dylan, born Robert Allen Zimmerman, May 24, 1941) is an American singer-songwriter... Mick gold (talk) 13:55, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * That sounds eminently more suitable. Theroadislong (talk) 13:59, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * If that is agreed, then it will automatically have my support. --Richhoncho (talk) 14:06, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * That looks twice as ridiculous, like writing ""William Medley, known professionally as Bill Medley"" or "Richard Clark, also known as Dick Clark". We already know what the subject is popularly known as from the title of the article, and "Bob" as a diminutive of "Robert" is not exactly an obscure fact that needs elaboration. Ilovetopaint (talk) 14:28, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

How about: Bob Dylan (legally Robert Dylan, born Robert Allen Zimmerman, May 24, 1941)....." ?  Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:35, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Again, as redundant as "Jack White (legally John White)". --Ilovetopaint (talk) 14:43, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

WP:MOSNICKNAME applies here. I think we should have "Robert Dylan (born Robert Allen Zimmerman on May 24, 1941) is an American musician..." GiantSnowman 15:01, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's absolutely the correct way to do it. No need for any special case. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:06, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * So you think that some of the examples given in WP:MOSNICKNAME are wrong, e.g. 'Stefani Joanne Angelina Germanotta (born March 28, 1986), known professionally as Lady Gaga...'--Richhoncho (talk) 16:20, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * No, none of them are wrong. Dylan's legal name is Robert Dylan. He is known professionally by a common hypocorism of that name. There is no need to state the obvious, which is what the guidelines are intended to avoid. They work perfectly well. I have no idea why editors are trying to argue that Dylan should be some sort of exception. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:47, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * It's because of the principle of least astonishment. Readers will have heard of Bob Dylan, and many will be aware that he was born Robert Allen Zimmerman.  Many will also be aware that Bob Marley was born Robert Nesta Marley - it won't be a surprise to them that that was his legal name.  But it will astonish many readers to find Bob Dylan's legal name of Robert Dylan - without any explanation - as the opening words of the article.  It's a name which is rarely if ever used.  Under most circumstances, WP:MOSNICKNAME works fine.  But in this case its use comes across as excessively pedantic.   Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:03, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * You will not be surprised to learn that I completely disagree with you. -- Necrothesp (talk) 08:52, 25 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Support per Mick Gold...Modernist (talk) 15:53, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm not completely averse to: Robert Dylan (born Robert Allen Zimmerman, May 24, 1941), known professionally as Bob Dylan, is an American singer-songwriter...
 * That's the usual style we'd use (with the legal name first and the professional name after the DOB, not enclosed within the brackets). Although I do think it's utterly pointless and stating the bleeding obvious. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:52, 20 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Comment: From my point of view, Ghmyrtle hits the nail right on the head. There was a time a few years back when I knew more about Bob Dylan than was probably healthy, but still, to see him referred to as Robert Dylan here is just astonishing. I appreciate that WP:NICKNAME exists but as with other guidelines on Wikipedia, its application in this case can and does alienate the reader. [Without wanting to be antagonistic: it keeps box-ticking Wikipedia editors happy ("comes across as excessively pedantic") yet the vast majority of people who view this page do not edit encyclopedia articles.] I think it would should far more imagination, and avoid surprising readers in the very first sentence, to not mention Robert Dylan – perhaps that detail could sit in a footnote instead. I'm not talking about making special allowances for Bob Dylan alone, but any individual whose professional name is so widely known. JG66 (talk) 03:47, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Agreed, it makes Wikipedia look ridiculous. Theroadislong (talk) 04:23, 21 FebrRobertuary 2019 (UTC)
 * Utter rubbish! It makes it look like an encyclopaedia, not a repository of pop culture written by people who are incapable of applying common sense. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:29, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Given your comment here about those editors who "seem uncomfortable with using judgement and discretion and [who] instead prefer to obsessively apply dogma and fictional rules", I wonder if you would like to comment on my thoughts earlier about the "principle of least astonishment" in this case. Thanks.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:45, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
 * In the lede we use the same form throughout the encyclopaedia. To not do so is ridiculous. That is common sense! Consistency is important in a serious work. That does not conflict in any way with what I said. -- Necrothesp (talk) 08:50, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
 * If "principle of least astonishment" was a valid argument for disregarding someone's actual full name in favor of a nickname then I guess we'd have to say goodbye to Brian Peter George St John le Baptiste de la Salle Eno. Ilovetopaint (talk) 07:28, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Are there any sources anywhere that refer to Bob Dylan as Robert Dylan? And of these, are there any that begin with the name found in official (primary source) records and then go on to identify the artist as he is known to everyone else on the planet? My first question relates to WP:VER - verifiability supersedes "fact" - "Wikipedia does not publish original research. Its content is determined by previously published information..." And the second to WP:FLAT, which holds: "It is the stated goal of Wikipedia to mirror the current consensus of mainstream scholarship – in the words of WP:NOT, 'accepted knowledge'". IMHO, both of these "rules" supersede WP:Manual of Style/Biography. Allreet (talk) 14:05, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Good question. At the moment the article suggests he changed his name from Robert Allen Zimmerman to Robert Dylan. Is there evidence that he dropped Allen from his name, and if he did, does it infer he might have also changed to Bob, rather than Robert? FWIW I think disagreements arise here because he has had 2 'real' names and a stage name. Most only have 1 'real' name. --Richhoncho (talk) 14:20, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that is a good point. And it's what I was alluding to in my comment above: I've read no end of Dylan literature ("Dylanology"?) over the years, yet I'm still floored by the sight of the words "Robert Dylan" at the very start of the article.
 * Hang on, though. I've checked in the source we give for that name change, Howard Sounes' Down the Highway, p. 121. Sounes writes: "In August 1962, following another trip to Minnesota and back, Bob went downstairs to the Supreme Court Building in New York and changed his name from Robert Allen Zimmerman and officially assumed the mantle of Bob Dylan." End of section; text then goes on to discuss Martin Luther King, JFK, political climate in summer 1962. In other words, there is no mention (there, at least) of Robert Dylan ... JG66 (talk) 14:42, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
 * And from Clinton Heylin's Behind the Shades: The 20th Anniversary Edition, p. 97: "Grossman's impact was certainly immediate. In August, on Grossman's advice, Robert Zimmerman legally changed his name to Bob Dylan." JG66 (talk) 14:59, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I've gone ahead and changed the text in the lead and in the article body. : in doing so I've gone against the spirit of the discussion you started here ("can we have an agreement here before it is changed again?"). I apologise for that – because you opened the discussion quite correctly. I'm afraid frustration and incredulity got the better of me. JG66 (talk) 15:55, 22 February 2019 (UTC)


 * How about this format, from the Wikipedia article on Sun Ra:


 * "Sun Ra (born Herman Poole Blount, legal name Le Sony'r Ra; May 22, 1914 – May 30, 1993)"


 * If I were hearing of "Sun Ra" for the first time, and wished to know more about him, I might go to an encyclopedia, or Wikipedia and look for "Sun Ra". It would never occur to me to go looking for "Le Sony'r Ra", or "Herman Poole Blount" -- why would it?


 * Same with "Bob Dylan". I see a bunch of Bob's albums in a Goodwill, and go looking for more information.  "Robert Zimmerman" is not where I'm going to look; "Robert Dylan"?  Who the f--- is that?  No, I'd be looking for "Bob Dylan", the name by which he's been known to tens of millions of people for nearly 60 years.  The "Sun Ra" format captures all the relevant information, without creating confusion between the article title, and the first line of the article.


 * Plus, there's Wikipedia precedent for it. :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.89.176.249 (talk) 03:25, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
 * No one is arguing about the page title. Ilovetopaint (talk) 07:20, 12 March 2019 (UTC)


 * He is credited as "Robert Dylan" on the copyright of at least four song entries. Ilovetopaint (talk) 07:20, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Makes no sense
"...and appealed to the burgeoning counterculture, such as on the six-minute single "Like a Rolling Stone" "

Say what?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.89.176.249 (talk) 03:09, 5 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Nonsense as written. The sentence doesn't need an example. The thoughts stand on their own, justified by much of what follows. Allreet (talk) 15:53, 2 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Agreed. I've tried to re-write it to improve it. Statement about LARS consistent with what article later says about this single. Mick gold (talk) 08:28, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Bob Dylan for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Bob Dylan is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at this MfD discussion page until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America1000 22:57, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

IMDb as External Link
I would argue that films play a significant part in Dylan's biography. Three documentaries featuring Dylan, Dont Look Back, The Last Waltz and No Direction Home, have attracted much critical attention. Dylan has directed two films of his own devising, the rarely seen Eat the Document and the controversial Renaldo and Clara. Further Dylan's music has played a significant role in many feature films, including an Academy Award for Dylan for the film Wonder Boys. Several other WP:FA biographies of musicians have IMDb as ELs including David Bowie, Frank Zappa, Pink Floyd, R.E.M, Nirvana. Mick gold (talk) 17:38, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I removed it because 1.) he's not particularly associated with film and 2.) we shouldn't link to Amazon. Ignoring the second one--I don't want to get distracted--what do you think would be a threshold for how important film/TV should be for a musician before linking to a movie database? ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:32, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I can't propose a formal threshold of film/TV significance. I would argue that in a career as long as Dylan's (it's 58 years since he signed his first contract with CBS) there has been significant interaction with the world of film (primarily) and also TV. The films named above are important moments in his work &mdash; and I haven't begun to discuss Masked and Anonymous! He has interacted with leading film makers of his generation including D. A. Pennebaker and Martin Scorsese. His songs have sound tracked around 768 movies from Easy Rider to Wonder Boys to Watchmen to The Vietnam War and he won an Academy Award. Mick gold (talk) 08:00, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
 * FWIW, I endorse 's comments. As well as the films he personally appeared in, his music has been part of a very large number of movie soundtracks, and from that perspective I think a link is entirely appropriate and useful to readers.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:32, 16 April 2019 (UTC)