Talk:Bobby Eaton

Good article nomination on hold
This article's Good Article promotion has been put on hold. During review, some issues were discovered that can be resolved without a major re-write. This is how the article, as of July 18, 2007, compares against the six good article criteria:


 * 1. Well written?: no
 * 2. Factually accurate?: yes
 * 3. Broad in coverage?: yes
 * 4. Neutral point of view?: no
 * 5. Article stability? yes
 * 6. Images?: yes

Please address these matters soon and then leave a note here showing how they have been resolved. After 48 hours the article should be reviewed again. If these issues are not addressed within 7 days, the article may be failed without further notice. Thank you for your work so far.

Specifics

 * Remove bolding except where appropriate (name of article) per Manual of Style (text formatting)
 * I've done that


 * Expand Growing up or merge into the following sub section.
 * I decided to just merge them together~ MPJ-DK


 * Under Starting out does NWA Mid-America need quotation marks as it does not match the previous mention. Also in that section "his athleticism and showmanship" is subjective and needs a reference or removal.
 * Fixed quotation, looking for the reference.
 * Found reference, technically the reference comes a couple of sentences later and covers all the preceding text, but since it's a subjective expression I've made it explicit where I got it from MPJ-DK 10:58, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * In sub section Coming of age, "established Eaton as more than just a good tag-team competitor" should have a reference to note who says he is more than a good tag-team person. Remove beloved from the second paragraph and go through the article to remove this problem throughout such as "great success" later in same section, see []. 2 on 1 to two-on-one and spell out numbers 0-10 per Manual of Style (dates and numbers) through out the article. "fact that Sweet Brown Sugar looked and wrestled like a masked version of Sweet Brown Sugar helped make him instantly popular with the crowd." Well I would hope a masked version of the same person would wrestle the same. Remove space between period and footnotes 11 & 12 and anywhere else this is an issue. "After the bell run the Moondogs" I think is supposed to be rung?
 * Some updates - removed "beloved", working on other peacock & weasel terms. Spelled out 0-10, fixed the Sugar & Sugar issue and the bell rang.
 * Went through and searched for all suggested peacock and weasel words - although him being called "Beautiful" and feuding with the Fabulous Ones forced me to look twice before rewriting ;) MPJ-DK 13:16, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Added a reference to Eaton being extremly talented even early on and some interesting info on the Midnight / Rock & Rolls feud. MPJ-DK 03:03, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Mid-South Express ride: “still uses to this very day” should become still uses. “that were so unlike” is so not encyclopedic. through out should be throughout. “decided to made a big change” should be sourced and avoid words like big since that is a value judgment.
 * Tried to clean up the "so unlike", may need more work (and I'll find a citation) reworded the "big change" section


 * National spotlight for Jim Crockett Promotions needs to be Jim Crockett Promotions (JCP) if using the abbreviation later. “proved to be a golden one” is again a value judgment. That same sentence “(A title they” should be (a title they. In the next paragraph “content” should be contend. Next paragraph “Ted Turner brought out Jim Crockett” should be “bought” out I think. “was one of their favorite team” should be “teams” and the space between after the ) and before the comma needs to be removed.
 * Abbriviation put in. I meant "golden" as in they won gold, but I get your point and it's better in the more neutral version. Contend, bought and teams fixed.


 * It's a Dangerous alliance: “Ironically” needs to go, see this. Need a period before footnote 18. Also (this part got erased) The section title: "It's a Dangerous alliance" should not have a contraction and a word capitalized unless it is a formal title, in which case I am guessing alliance needs to be captialized.
 * Yes it should go, it's gone.
 * Fixed the header too, thanks for the heads up MPJ-DK 17:44, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Blue Blood: “They also feuded with Harlem Heat and (Booker T & Stevie Ray) over the WCW World Tag Team Championship but never won them” needs to remove “and” or the (brackets). “which wasn’t even” don’t use contractions. “Independent” should not be capitalized unless it is a proper noun.
 * removed "and", no contractions and "independent" now


 * Personal: hard.".[4] remove the second period. “not punishing to the other wrestler even though it is very convincing” needs to be sourced. Convert the inline citation for the quote to a footnote to match the rest of the article.
 * Period removed, looking for sources on his style and a source for the quote (I didn't add it but I'll find it)
 * Found the source of the quote, fixed it MPJ-DK 10:54, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Championships and accomplishments: Nothing is sourced, please source.
 * While some are sourced in the actual text I will make sure all titles listed have a source listed here, or they'll be removed as an unverifiable claim.
 * I sourced all the title wins I could find, removed those that I couldn't. As for PWI & Wrestling Observer, I'll have to find out what specific issues these awards were given in and then add the sources. MPJ-DK 10:54, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Found sources for the PWI claims, almost fully sourced now MPJ-DK 13:16, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Overall, there is a lot of content in the article, far more than the minimum for GA’s requirement for breadth. However, the quality is not up to GA standards. Address the specific items listed above, then read the info cited to conform the entire article to these items which are mainly part of the manual of style, which GA articles must conform to. Also, this article looks like that of a wrestling fan which creates problems with NPOV, and makes it challenging for non pro wrestling fans to decipher. Any reader should be able to read the article and learn about the person without needing a decoder to figure out what the article is about. Aboutmovies 20:20, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for the extremly comprehensive feedback, you've given me some great input on what to correct and what aspects to work on. I will start working on it today already. Every last comment is appriciated MPJ-DK 08:23, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I've done some work on it, just some of the quick fixes to begin with but I'll address the entire list and make some general updates based on the info you cited. I'll also work really hard to make it more accessible, my biggest problem is that I've been a wrestling fan for 18 years now so I'm not always sure what terms need to be explained - but I'll run through it and try to look at it from a "non-wrestling" point of view. This is the first article I've brought to GA and all in all I'm pleased there weren't any horrible things wrong with it, you've definitly provided insight into my future edits as well. MPJ-DK 10:04, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Alright I think I'm done updating the article, I've addressed all the specific issues you've mentioned, tried to update according to WP:MOS and put some work into making it less "wrestling-centric" by explaining terms and not using too many different terms about the same thing. I hope it's enough, I'm stumped as to what else to update, so if you could please look at it again and give me your honest opinion on the article's current state. Thanks MPJ-DK 08:50, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

GA failed
After further review, though the article has come a long way since the nomination, it is not quite GA. I commend the editor's on their orignial work as the article was well sourced and had a large amount of content. I also commend them on their upgrades through the GA process. However, I have made quite a few minor edits and will give a list of a few more changes that need to be made to get this through GA. After making these changes (should not take long), fell free to re-submit for GA.

Specifics
Fails the well written component of GA:
 * Note sure what this sentence means: Eaton’s time with the Blue Bloods the last time WCW tried to give Eaton storylines or angles to work with.

Otherwise I did all the edits under wrestling career. It will then sail through GA and be well on its way to FA. Aboutmovies 19:36, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * In the Personal section:
 * Substitute quipping (it’s a value judgment as to the type of remark). I’d use remarked or stated.
 * Books go in italics not quotes, and I’m not sure what the title of Steve Austin’s book exactly is, but I don’t think what is in quotes is it.
 * A comma is needed after “but” in the sentence about a night off and in the last sentence of the section.
 * Change “as she was forbidden to date wrestlers...” to “as her father had forbidden her from dating the wrestlers he was booking.”
 * Change "They have three children...” to “Donna and Bobby have three children named...”

GAC review
I have started my review of the article, however I do not have time to complete it right now. I have noted that the article needs a good copy-edit before it can achieve GA. Prose needs to be improved with regards to flow. Additionally, the use (or lack there of) of commas between independent clauses needs to be corrected. I will continue my review later tonight. Lara ♥Love  19:08, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Alright I'll start to address those problems now, thanks for your input so far. MPJ-DK 10:20, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I've been working on copy edits both for flow/readability and also it's independent clause issues. I don't know if it's enough but I feel that it's already looking much better, but then again that's not my call to make ;) MPJ-DK 20:40, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I went through the article and did some copy editing, as well. Nikki311 04:13, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Hello Eaton-GA team. I'll be taking over for Lara for the time being, please allow me a few hours to review the article once more and provide some final comments before the article can be promoted to GA.  At a first glance you're not far off so I'm sure I won't have too much to add.  The Rambling Man 14:59, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

GAC comments from The Rambling Man
Okay, here you go: Not much, a bit of English to rework, but a well cited article. The Rambling Man 15:15, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * "When he got old enough,"... yuck, rephrase.
 * "They held them for a little over a month; this title..." - reads poorly - clarify they held the titles, not the wrestlers, and then be consistent - titles or title?
 * Overuse of ref [7], no need to do it once per sentence, cite the whole paragraph once, at the end.
 * "...making it appear Eaton had been seriously injured, though Eaton was not injured by the move." reads poorly.
 * Use en-dash to separate years, e.g. for 1979-1980 use 1979–80.
 * "“The Original Midnight Express” to be more correct as it consisted of Dennis Condrey and Randy Rose who had been teaming up before Condrey and Eaton became a team." doesn't read well.

✅ above points. Davnel03 18:06, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the input and thanks for helping with the fixes :) I did one minor fix because I know the sources but otherwise it looks spot on. MPJ-DK 20:03, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Not to trample on TRM's reviews, btu I have a couple of quick thoughts. First WP:FLAGCRUFT cautions against the use of flags in the infobox, and you're using four. I don't mind the one next to his name at the top, but the other three look somewhat cluttered to me. The second this is mroe a personal opinion, but I believe "Personal" should be "Personal life". The section of the lead where you mention "outside the ring", the term usually refers to a person's career other than a sporting career, however the comments all relate to his personal life (in this case, his philanthropy and family). I'd suggest obtaining another piece of integral info to place here as "outside the ring", such as coaching or anything like that he may have done. Alternatively, just change the wording of that part. -- linca linca  12:58, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I wasn't aware of the Flag issue, I'll make sure to fix it right away (and go through the articles on my list as well when this is fixed). I got a few ideas what I could put in the personal: He worked for a WWE developmental league as a trainer and his son Dillon Eaton just made his debut after being trained by his father, I'll find the sources and write up something to add later if that's the kind of thing you had in mind?MPJ-DK 13:07, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me, though maybe reworded a bit. It sounds just a tad awkward, I'm sorry, but the content is definitely what I was looking for. -- linca linca  04:03, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh no, no that wasn't the wording I was looking for, just the two facts I'm going to add - not how I'd actually write it ;) MPJ-DK 05:18, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I believe this article now meets GA criteria and have listed it as such. Thank you for all your hard work. In improving this article, you have improved Wikipedia. Regards, Lara  ♥Love  03:27, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO awesome! the first article I've really helped push to GA. Thank you to everyone who's helped improve it, you're all awesome :) MPJ-DK 07:15, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * THANK YOU. Now we're heading onwards and upwards!!! Davnel03 18:07, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Article Status
I believe this article is pretty much ready to be nominated for FAC, but there's one issue - only one picture. I did a few searches and could not find any more FU pictures. Gavyn Sykes 18:16, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * There were more, but they got deleted for some reason or another. I think a fair-use image might be okay since the teams are no longer competing together and a free-use alternative is therefore impossible. It would have to have the proper rationale, though. Nikki311 18:46, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * There used to be a picture of both the Midnight Express and the Blue Bloods but I was apparently not able to come up with a proper and acceptable "fair use" rationale so they were deleted, if someone knows the secret incantations to chant to actually get a "fair use" acceptance they are more than welcome to give it a try, it would improve the article IMO. MPJ-DK 20:07, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

I think the article is ready to be nominated, as well. The few minor things that needed to be fixed have been addressed. I do think, however, we should wait until December to Dismember (2006) and Shelton Benjamin have either passed or failed their nominations. We don't want to overwhelm the Featured Article reviewers with wrestling articles. I don't think it would hurt its chances if we went ahead and nominated it, but why risk it? Nikki311 01:24, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree, Nikki. Unfortunately, there's a lack of interest outside this WP in the two we have nominated right now. D2D failed last time for several reasons, one of which was lack of response, IIRC. Gavyn Sykes 02:00, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm on board for that, I just hope that others realize that there are already 2 Wrestling FA candidates and don't add another without informing the project (like with Shelton Benjamin). Once either of those two have passed or failed I'll put Bobby Eaton up for FA. MPJ-DK 05:30, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Benjamin and D2D both passed, so I think that you should go ahead and nominate Eaton. Nikki311 20:20, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Training wrestlers
I came across this article that mentions that Mickie James was trained at Bobby Eaton's training camp. Does anybody else know anything about this camp and whether or not anybody else notable trained there? I just skimmed through Eaton's article and didn't see it mentioned. If any more information can be found regarding this, I think it should be added, but if James is the only person we can find that trained there, I think it is okay to leave it out. Any thoughts on this? Nikki311 04:27, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well he trained his son too. if we can find one more name I'd say we should add it. MPJ-DK 05:42, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay. I'll be on the look out for anyone else. Nikki311 17:16, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080623095650/http://www.prowrestlinghistory.com/supercards/usa/wcw/clash.html to http://www.prowrestlinghistory.com/supercards/usa/wcw/clash.html

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Awesome article
Cool feature article today! The only thing missing, I would say, is a list of Bobby Eaton's signature wrestling moves. Could such a list be added? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.44.62.158 (talk) 14:36, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Unreliable sources
Tagging  here. Online World of Wrestling is not a reliable source according to WP:PW/RS There might be other unreliable sources that are unnoticed by me. Thanks. THE NEW  Immortal  Wizard  (chat) 19:17, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
 * So sources is misleading, there was one unreliable source. "might be others" is not a reason to tag so I addressed the actual issue and removed the blanket tag. MPJ-DK (talk) 23:20, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
 * ~ So maybe use ? And OWOW is used multiple times, not just once, look at ref [1]. THE NEW  Immortal  Wizard  (chat)  16:47, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Other unreliable source I can detect - Kayfabe Memories (used multiple times). So can I tag it back. THE NEW  Immortal  Wizard  (chat) 16:58, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Quite a few of them are unproven, which could be accepted. THE NEW  Immortal  Wizard  (chat) 17:01, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Unproven is not the same as unreliable, I used the as it is intended, to mark specific sources, instead of a blanket tag at the top implying that this article generally has a problem with sourcing. It does not have a general problem with sourcing, one souce (OWOW_ was deemed unreliable at a later date after this was passed for FA (and now replaced) and the Kayfabe memories sources are used for non-contentious details of his wrestling career. MPJ-DK (talk) 18:06, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I did not get your edit here. I suggest a FAC as it has been a decade. THE NEW  Immortal  Wizard  (chat) 18:10, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Clearly a copy and paste error. And on wha grounds do you suggest the FAC? a couple of unreliable sources covering minior details? passage of time? Really?MPJ-DK (talk) 18:16, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Well, a lot of info depends on those sources. THE NEW  Immortal  Wizard  (chat) 20:47, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Looks like you and I have very different definitions of "a lot" because the Kayfabe news stuff to me are minor info in the scheme of things IM9 MPJ-DK (talk) 22:07, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

, I would suggest you reading Guidance on source reviewing at FAC. THE NEW  Immortal  Wizard  (chat) 20:58, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * What makes you think a guy with numerous Featured content to his name has not read that? MPJ-DK (talk) 22:07, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * That doesn't mean you know everything. A better question could have been why a guy with no featured content give advice? In that case I apologize. THE NEW  Immortal  Wizard  (chat) 22:16, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * My question is - what point were you trying to make by posting that? If you are trying to convince me that this needs FAC because a couple of details are sourced to Kayfabe memories, then that point was not made. FAC is for articles where it looks like it's far from feature content, not some where a little work is needed to get it back to Feature level. MPJ-DK (talk) 22:32, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * To me, verifying sources and using reliable are as equally valued as quality content, notability and comprehensiveness. The article fails one or more of the criteria if any of these fail. THE NEW  Immortal  Wizard  (chat) 22:35, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * verifying sources and using reliable are as equally valued as quality content, notability and comprehensiveness. yup you are right, that's why all of that gets checked for as part of the Feature Article Candiate process. Am I objecting to certain minor stuff being tagged? Nah that's all normal processing - but to start talking about this article being in so poor shape it needs a Reassessment is blowing it way out of proportion. Especially when it is something that is fairly easily addressed by anyone who cares enough to put in the effort. MPJ-DK (talk) 23:02, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * At the very least, I would go for PR. But why choose PR if FAR is eligible? Remember, FAR is not the same as FARC. THE NEW  Immortal  Wizard  (chat) 16:22, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Missing
The Missing section is missing. He was missing in life in 2016. Missing information about missing can be found in some of the earlier versions. The missing part is notable I think and it shouldn't be missing. THE NEW  Immortal  Wizard  (chat) 19:44, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * The solution to this problem aeems to be missing. MPJ-DK (talk) 20:42, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * But how is the missing part of his health? THE NEW  Immortal  Wizard  (chat) 20:45, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * How is it? I don't know, I have never talked to the missing part of his hralth. MPJ-DK (talk) 20:48, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * No no, sorry, I meant that the missing part had it's own sub section, now it's merged with health. THE NEW  Immortal  Wizard  (chat) 20:50, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * So technically whaat is missing now is 6 = symbols and the letters m I s s I n g? MPJ-DK (talk) 22:03, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes that is missing. I hope you are not missing the point now. I still don't get why missing is related to his health. People might misinterpret like his health is missing. Clarification is missing here. THE NEW  Immortal  Wizard  (chat) 22:26, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Hey Mis-ter I've been missing out on my favorite TV show, "Missing Persons" and now I missed the start and I don't know how they went missing. And all over something that could be addressed by those that understand the core philosophy of Wikipedia.MPJ-DK (talk) 22:34, 16 February 2019 (UTC)


 * And some perspective here - His sister did not know where he was for one day, hardly earth shattering. Frankly it's almost trivial and definitely not worth its own section. MPJ-DK (talk) 22:59, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

FA concerns
Looking at this as part of the ongoing sweeps of older FAs, and I'm seeing some issues here. The material about going missing is uncited/failed verification and should definitely be cited per WP:BLP as possibly controversial. I'm not even sure if it truly warrants a mention. Wrestling-titles is listed at WP:PW/RS as "unproven", does this source meet the high-quality RS requirement for FA? Wrestlingfigs.com is cited at one point (publisher not in citation, its the "Here is a statement from Bobby Eaton" source. Is this RS?  Is Solie's Vintage Wrestling RS?  Kayfabe Memories does not look like RS, and is listed as unreliable at PW/RS.  There is a self-published book cited (the CreateSpace one, CS is a self-publisher).  It appears that Archeus Communications has only published books by Gary Will and I can find basically nothing about it online, which makes me wonder if there's really much editorial oversight going on with that source.  A number of the book sources also lack page numbers, which is needed for verification.  This needs significant work, and a featured article review may be necessary. Hog Farm Talk 21:30, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
 * The concerns about Wrestling Title Histories by Gary Will and Royal Duncan were addressed here. In addition, Royal Duncan is listed here as secretary and newsletter publisher of the Cauliflower Alley Club. GaryColemanFan (talk) 07:06, 6 August 2021 (UTC)