Talk:Bohemian (demonym)

Untitled
I have lived the Bohemian lifestyle for years, and not known it, until I came across this Wikipedia site, and discovered my true self!

So, in retrospect,I realize the roots of my Bohemity have been growing since childhood

In the 1980's I discovered a true Bohemian spirit - the singer Joni Mitchell. Her lyrics are free and unrestrained, as is her creative music.

Living with art, writing and music has been like living among passionate friends. But does one have to own the arts in order to be Bohemian?

For years, all I ever have wanted of art was to have a room in which to be creative - to keep the hours I needed and eat when the stomach popped... to wake to endless hours of art, writing and dating.

Insert non-formatted text here

Is being Bohemian simply self-gratification? In some ways it is... you see, we are not on this earth simply to serve ourselves, and fill our days with egoconcentric circles of nausea-creating piles of manure.

Here is my goal as a Bohemian: to maintain integrity to the true meaning of the word without stepping all over my fellow man to do so. And I want to share my art with the world.

Haight-Ashbury was not the Bohemian neighborhood in San Francisco until the early/mid-1960s.

Before that it was North Beach.

The Haight was not "bohemia" in the 19th or early 20th c.

I changed the page so that it now only dicusses "Bohemian" as a nationality and created Bohemian (disambiguation). I'm now in the process of gradually changing all the "life style bohemian" links to Bohemianism. Help would be appreciated. --Chino 05:39, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I will agree with you Chino. I am in the process of doing some research on the Bohemian and Bohemian way of life, including purchasing a copy of a book called the bohemian manifesto. Clearly a lot more work has to be done on this entry...


 * Chino - although English is not my mother-tongue I would say that bohemian is a lot more in use as an expression in the lifestyle sense, not in the origin sense. that's why I think the lifestyle article should be here, not an old expression for a kind of people
 * I guess you have never been to Chicago? Peyna 02:37, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

By the way, the article about the people is I believe wrong when saying that the expression just kind of died out. It was the expression for the Germans living in that area until the end of WWII, more information probably if you look for Benes-Decrees in google or Bohemia, only about the western two thirds have been Bohemia.217.185.235.88 18:05, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Any more Bohemian info?
I am 1/8 Bohemian, and would love to know more about it, which this page does not do much of. Such as, what other ethnic groups are Bohemians close genetically to? I mean, i know some Czechs and some Bohemians, and, from what I have seen, Bohemians seem to be different, more tan, I guess. Just wondering if anyone here knew. Oh, and whoever said, "the lifestyle article should be here, not an old expression for a kind of people", I could not disagree with you more. People are ethnicly Bohemians, and if "Italian" got the same freak connotation as Bohemian, the page on Italian should not be devoted to that, but to the ethnicity. Only problem is, there are more Italians, and Italy is still a country. Bohemia is more defenseless, but still deserving of its own article--but it's too generic, I want more of the culture which I long for yet know so little about.
 * Not sure about your comment regarding Bohemians being tan; the Bohemian side of my family is very pale and has red hair. (We took our last name from the region, apparently as well). Peyna 02:39, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
 * You can hardly speak about differences between Czechs and Bohemians, because Czechs are Bohemians. --Zik2 (talk) 12:32, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Karpaten1 (talk) 03:27, 6 June 2009 (UTC) But not all Bohemians are Czechs.

What about the bohemian people
I am 1/4 Bohemian and it is hard to find anything on my families past. This page as helped me learn about so much yet the one thing that I am really curious about it doesn't have. Bohemia is a culture and for some people their ethinic background. I even think people would find that the Bohemian language is almost extinct but not yet. There are still a few that speak it, but they came from the bad clan that gave the rest of the Bohamians such trouble. Ya there was two clans, one that just did what everyday people do and the other that was theaves, fortune tellers, and prostitutes. The sad part is the only people who know of this are the ones with this ancestry. It would be nice if you guys could give more information on the heritage. And about being tan, my family is pale as well. I have been told by others that my features resemble Bohemians which are dark blone- lite brown hair, hazel green eyes, rosey pink cheeks, and fair skin. 67.142.130.26 09:32, 14 March 2007 (UTC)Tasha R.
 * I think Bohemian's (the ethnicity) should be turned in to it's own page, just like any of the other groups of people. Bohemian's still recognize themselves as such before considering themselves as Czech's from my understanding. JanderVK —Preceding unsigned comment added by JanderVK (talk • contribs) 04:09, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

the connection between the word "bohemian" and catholic propaganda
I've heard from various sources (please back me up) that the origins of what we currently define as bohemian came from accusations of the catholic church against the "bohemians" or members of the hussite revolution. This was done in order to defame the movement. Aspects of this propaganda included "wildness" or "orgies" or a generally unconventional lifestyle that was seperate from and against the catholic church. Was this propaganda the origin of our current usage of the word Bohemian? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.192.252.130 (talk) 02:55, 26 April 2007 (UTC). Thomasjefferson33 (talk) 11:15, 14 March 2011 (UTC)I have been a bohemian for over 60years. I believe the articles can be very misleading. the above article has things pretty straight on. Being a Bohemian is just like an Irishman having his heritage being from Ireland. A Scotish man having his ancestors being from Scotland. My ancestors were from a small area in Czech called Bohemia. The language that was spoke between my mother and my grandmother was Bohemian, a language that came from German and Czech. My close family is not that of thieves, artist, or muscians that don't fit in anywhere else. I lived and was born in a small area of Chicago known as "little Bohemia". When living with my grandmother my mother and I went to a Catholic church that I always thought spoke everything in Latin, only to discover recently that the church is and was called "The Bohemian Catholic Church". My mother was raised a Catholic. Being raised by my step-father there was not alot of church going. After a short talk with my grandmother at the age of 4 of the statues in her bedroom of Jesus and Mother Mary, I knew that God existed. I have felt a very strong spitual raltionship with him. Growing up, I began questioning the reliougous teachings my mother grew up with. I have read of some bohemians who were called "Free thinkers". I think that does really apply to me. My bohemian upbringing was nothing about being talented artist, singer, or the desire to be broke and poor, on the contrary I very much like having the luxeries of life. I do get alittle upset at the thought that at sometime in america people who disagreed with the cival war or wanted freedom were called bohemian. The same as anyone would feel if that statement were true about their true nationality. I was a teenager in the 1960's, I had very little freedom, with high moral standards and dressed the same as the other girls in school. There is one thing that I find to be a little differant when growing up. It was very normal to hear about ghost stories, or for my mother, my stepfather, aunt and uncle to have a sense' led by my mother. To recieve a Quiqie board for Christmas was very normal for us. I just thought it was cool to have a mother who went to physcics in the 1940's. I also remember feeling like I was differant than others. I assumed that because every now and then I would know how things would turn out, others did the same thing. I also knew my mother could read tea leaves, and my grandmother was even better than my mother. Then one day, when I was extremely close to my dying father in law, it happend, he came to me to say good-bye. I even had witnesses present when the garbage pail lid fell in the garbage can for no reason. I immediately called the hospital and the nurse came to answer the phone, and to call for someone to come and take my father in law to the morgue. When I called, she was still in the room with my ex and hadn't even covered my father in law up. Slowly after that I randomly took one class here and another there and found myself right were i should be. Having our father lead me to my spiritual beliefs, yes, I talk to my past loves ones and have had many paranormal experiences, just as the gypsies of the past. My brother, he was extremely artistic and talented. For those who want to know what a bohemian is like. Freedom does mean everything to me. Freedom to be me, to be unique, and to be proud that I beat a differant drum. I dress younger than my age, I act younger than my age, and I believe it's easier to be a clone like everyone else, but that's not me. I would of made a great hippie, I loved the shops then. I was old fashioned with my morals and loose. I have a drive to help people and to help make my life of value in the whole scheme of thing that's deeply inbedded in me, and I have. Be yourself, and feel free to be you as you are, I guess that would, in my opinion, make you as close as a bohemian as you could be, follow your faith and stick to it, and dare to be differant. For those who would like to know more about their heritage, try the Ellis Island registry. Look up the last name, if your bohemian, it would say your family name is from Bohemia, or Czech. I recently did this and was proud to find out that yes, my bio dad was also bohemian. The strange part, most people where I live have no idea or have never heard of a Bohemian.Thomasjefferson33 (talk) 11:15, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Reference for Hindenburg's nickname for Hitler...
I'd like to know the source of this statement... and the article should point it out for the shake of completeness.

RE: Reference for Hindenburg's nickname for Hitler...
Shirer's "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich"


 * you should anedote it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.222.129.203 ([[User

talk:72.222.129.203|talk]]) 00:53, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Disambiguation
I've removed the content about modern bohemianism. Readers can find the more comprehensive bohemianism article through the disambig page. Superm401 - Talk 05:56, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

bohemian
I just found out I was bohemian I have lite blond hair and green eyes and am tan. My grandmothers last name was hrasky. We also had five other races. Just here tring to learn more about who and where I came from. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.18.192.253 (talk) 20:04, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

P.s. Call me later ashley

Always Bohemian
I have always known I was Bohemian on my Father's side, I just don't know how much. I am curious to know more about the culture. My last name was shortened when my ancester's came here. I am curious to know who has the username Broz? That is my maiden name. I also have dark blonde hair and hazel eyes. I have fair complection but my younger sister has an olive skin tone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BrozD (talk • contribs) 23:02, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Your last name was probably Brož (in English it means brooch). It is a common name here in Czechia. It was probably changed to Broz to better fit abroad. Jirka.h23 (talk) 17:39, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Nationalism?
The article is full of disgusting Czech nationalism and should be deleted completely, since there´s a much better article about Bohemia, which explains things much better. A Bohemian is simply someone from the former kingdom of Bohemia. A Bohemian is not necessarily a Czech, he/she may be German or even Hungarian or Pole. The kingdom of Bohemia was part of Holly Roman empire till 1806, later part of the Habsburg empire. Since about 1300 it was ruled by kings of German descent and with German elite and a German speaking majority in the west, including Prague. When the Habsburg empire collapsed in 1918, the western part of Bohemia with a vast German speaking majority was forced into a now Czech dominated state, although these people voted to become a part of the new Austrian state. This lead to the Munich Treaty in 1938, when Germany received the German speaking parts of Bohemia and a little later conquered all of Bohemia. After the German defeat in WW2 the Czechs committed a genocide at the German speaking population in Bohemia, with the consent of the Allies. 188.98.255.119 (talk) 16:53, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Anonymious german nonsens--Posp68 (talk) 11:00, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
 * A Czech is not necessarily Bohemian, but a Czech he can be Bohemian, Moravian or Silesian. And you're wrong, since 1306 it was not ruled only by kings of German descent, what about Charles IV, John the Blind, Wenceslaus IV, Sigismund, George of Podebrady, and others? The Sudetenland has been part of the Czech kingdom for a whole millennium and the Germans came to it as immigrants since the 13th century. After the Battle of White Mountain, German language was made equal with Czech, but the Germans never had a majority in Prague. Jirka.h23 (talk) 09:00, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

The article is full of Czech nationalism. A Bohemian is simply someone from the former kingdom of Bohemia. Bohemia was in the central part of what is known in 2020 as the Czech Republic and Slovakia. They were artisans is glasswork; music; dance; art, etc. The boundaries moved around many times during WWI and WWII and afterward. My Great grandmother was from the same city all her life. It was Austria at her birth, then Czechoslovakia as she was growing up. She was Bohemian by self admission and DNA. Although she identified herself as a Czech. My great grandfather was also Bohemian, but the city he came from now is now in Slovakia. We've had DNA done and know this to be true. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:a000:1e02:49db:39fd:393e:9498:eab (talk • contribs) 01:12, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
 * What is the point of your post? So they are both Bohemians, that doesn't mean she can't call herself a Czech. Jirka.h23 (talk) 09:00, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 24 April 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Moved disambiguation page to base name and moved the article to Bohemian (demonym), since that was suggested by one user and approved by another. Several expressed no great concern with what the article was titled so long as it was moved. There was one objection to the proposed title. I agree with Uanfala and No such user that "demonym" describes its contents accurately. (closed by non-admin page mover) Srnec (talk) 01:26, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

– Before making this nomination, I checked the incoming links. There were 480 of them, and a round 200 were wrong. This suggests no WP:PTOPIC, but it was worse than that. A handful of those links were just silly (Bohemians in Kerala, the Bohemian quarters of Harare and Beirut, Bohemian language of the streets of Tiflis, the Bohemian zone of the prehistoric La Tène culture) - but a good number of other 183 were not just misleading but downright racially offensive, including (but not limited to} an enclave of freaks, immigrants and bohemians long before the hippies got there; a cafe which was frequented by prostitutes, musicians and Bohemian spirits; Bohemian con artists; a bohemian life of drugs and work as an exotic dancer; and drunken and promiscuous Bohemian motorcyclists.
 * Bohemian → Bohemian (ethnic group)
 * Bohemian (disambiguation) → Bohemian

Neither Bohemian people nor Bohemians would work as the title for an article for the ethnic group. Both terms are also applicable to people who practice a bohemian lifestyle.

Note to closer: if the move is made, ping me and I will help to WP:FIXDABLINKS. Narky Blert (talk) 15:56, 24 April 2021 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. You asked to be pinged. Srnec (talk) 01:26, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Support. The article currently called Bohemian is well down the page views ranking for the dab, just behind Bohemian F.C..  As the term appears to have no primary topic, the disambiguation page should reside at the base name.  Choosing the qualifier is problematic: "ethnic group" is the best attempt so far but a better alternative would be welcome.  I would also be happy to help fix incoming links; this could be done before moving the dab once we know that a move will occur.  Certes (talk) 16:58, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
 * After reading later comments, I support a move to Bohemian (demonym) as first choice and to any other reasonable title as second choice; the priority is to vacate title Bohemian for the dab. Certes (talk) 12:03, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose this is a geographically defined group of people—not an ethnic group at all since it would include ethnically Czech, German, and Jewish people. I do support taking this off primary topic but a different disambiguator is needed. Alternatively, the article could be merged into Bohemia where the various inhabitants are discussed. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  17:41, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Support merging article. This article has almost no sources. Merge content (to Bohemia, Bohemianism, or other appropriate articles), and move Bohemian (disambiguation) to the now-vacant Bohemian. 162 etc. (talk) 21:39, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
 * (demonym) is OK but my first choice would be merge. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  00:11, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Support moving from primary. Per User:Buidhe, I have no idea what this page should be moved to, but it should definitely be moved. The disambiguation page should be moved to primary. Paintspot Infez (talk) 21:04, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Support moving from primary, but '(ethnic group)' may be problematic. However, the description in Ethnic group does not require a shared ancestry and it seems to apply here: Bohemians share a language, traditions and cultural practices that may distinguish them from other population groups. Would Bohemian (population group) be better? Verbcatcher (talk) 12:41, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Bohemians don't necessarily speak the same language, some spoke Czech, others German, there's also Bohemian Romani and Bohemian Jewish language... (t &#183; c)  buidhe  00:11, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment (nom). I would agree with either a merge or a different qualifier or title - just so long as Bohemian becomes the basename, to stop the sort of garbage which I found from collecting again, and to stop innocent searching readers being directed to an inappropriate page. Narky Blert (talk) 20:23, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge this somewhere, preferably to a trash can, and move the dab page here. Unsourced article without a clear topic (it's mostly about the word Bohemian and how it is (not) used to refer to things Czech). The article Bohemia already contains everything that should be said about the subject; it uses the demonym "Bohemians" exactly four times, in an obvious manner, and does not even bother to link to this article. No such user (talk) 07:25, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
 * P.S. Bohemian people could be useful as an interim title. It's currently a redlink, suggesting that nobody has found it plausible so far, and I don't think it can plausibly refer to those of bohemian lifestyle. No such user (talk) 07:29, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I think Bohemian people is still ambiguous, but that doesn't detract from your most important point: the disambiguation page should occupy the base name Bohemian. What we do with the article currently there is a secondary detail.  Certes (talk) 12:58, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Support move of dab page per nom: there's clearly no primary topic here. As for the new title of the article currently sitting at Bohemian, how about Bohemian (demonym)? This seems less ambiguous, and it more faithfully reflects the article's actual scope. – Uanfala (talk) 13:48, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree that Bohemian (demonym) best describes the current scope. I still prefer merge, but realistically the RM closer is not going to perform it, and for the time being it's good enough just to move this out of the way. No such user (talk) 14:29, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I think this is a two-stage process:
 * Move Bohemian → Bohemian something, and Bohemian (disambiguation) → Bohemian per the original proposal (perhaps with a better qualifier)
 * Merge Bohemian something (into what?), which can be done later, either boldly or following a separate discussion
 * – Certes (talk) 14:40, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * (Nom) - (demonym) is a better qualifier than anything I managed to come up with; I like it. Narky Blert (talk) 10:47, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Support moving dab page here and moving this page to Bohemians Red   Slash  17:51, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
 * (nom) Two from my chamber of horrors - "artistic Bohemians and the down-and-outs" and "an enclave of freaks, immigrants and Bohemians long before the hippies got there". Narky Blert (talk) 10:38, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Move from primary and merge with Bohemia, although not much info to copy that isn't already there. I would also support simply deleting it. Vpab15 (talk) 18:52, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I attempted to start to fixing the incoming links to the moved dab but hit a snag. Please can someone explain to me (preferably in words of one syllable) the difference between Bohemianism and Bohemian style?  Thanks, Certes (talk) 02:59, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
 * There's a lot of overlap; but bohemians are generally broke, whereas people who live in bohemian style have money. Narky Blert (talk) 06:16, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Compare the lifestyle of actual shepherds and milkmaids with French aristocrats at Versailles pretending to be ones. Narky Blert (talk) 06:30, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the ping. ✅. Narky Blert (talk) 13:54, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks to everyone who helped clear up the incoming links so quickly. Certes (talk) 15:11, 17 May 2021 (UTC)