Talk:Bolivarian Circles

Untitled
Oh my God, this is biased against the Venezualan government! and I'm not even a Chavez supporter. The first pharagraph is ok but the second seems to have been written by a different person, one with bad grammer at that, probably some anti-Chavez person from a Hispanic country. and again, I myself am anti-Chavez. Pimpalicious 01:49, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, no one has yet edited this article. I don't have enough information to re-write it myself but if no one does soon I'm just going to take out the second paragraph. Pimpalicious 01:49, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

So Biased!!
This is such bad information, completely slanted towards the wrong side. If you seriously beieved this article, you should double check this info with some other sites. You'll see.


 * I assume you mean it's biased in favor of Chavez. I don't see anything wrong with the information there myself. I do see problems with the information that's not there, it should include more about what the opposition claims. Pimpalicious 01:49, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

recent changes

 * I deleted a lot of criticism because it was uncited and I couldn't find reliable sources but also inserted some criticle stuff and sources
 * a lot of restructuring
 * deleted a lot of content because it was mentioned twice
 * I will also delete now the section Bolivarian Youth because it seems to be only PR for one local group in Florida and constitutes the impression that this term is exclusively used by this group. If someone wants to reinsert it, please consider to rewrite it more neutral, showing the connection to Bolivarian Circles and giving a more general view of the entire movement(including Venezuela and other countries).

present Bolivarian Youth part: "The Bolivarian Youth is a revolutionary anti-capitalist youth organization. The organization was founded on Mayday (May 1st), 2005 in Miami and was born from the local Bolivarian Circle. Inspired by Venezuela's peaceful and democratic Bolivarian Revolution, the "Youth" was organized to educate and mobilize revolutionary minded young people in South Florida for unity, solidarity, and political action. The Bolivarian Youth has chapters at Florida International University and Florida Atlantic University.bolivarianyouth.com" -- Stan talk 03:50, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Some problems
Riothero, bobrayner (talk) 22:17, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) Stop revert-stalking me.
 * 2) You know that Venezuelanalysis is not a reliable source; it has been explained to you repeatedly. So why do you keep on removing content based on reliable sources, and replacing it with stuff based on Venezuelanalysis?
 * 1. so much for assuming good faith! when you make changes to pages that are on my watchlist, i am notified, whereupon i make subsequent changes when appropriate. i ground these changes in wikipedia's principles, as explained in my edit summaries. engaging in ad hominem will not win you any arguments.


 * 2. it has not been decided that venezuelanalysis.com is not a reliable source, as you claim. when the material is uncontentious, or when a chavista POV is needed, the website is clearly a valid source. however, to demonstrate my good faith in this case, i'll agree to removing the one reference on this page.


 * 3. to the core issue, would you now care to defend your cherrypicking/misrepresentation of the BYU study?--Riothero (talk) 23:42, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
 * specifically, i am concerned that the statement "These organisations help the government identify opponents, who are then denied services" (for which the BYU study is cited as a reference), and your description of the BYU study itself in the new 'criticism' section cherrypick and misrepresent that study's actual findings. the closest that the study comes to saying this is when it describes the circles as "new clientelistic brokers, ensuring the provision of these programs in neighborhoods that supported Chavez". this is a far cry from identifying opponents and shutting down their services!
 * however, in addition to this criticism, the study also had positive things to say that are selectively omitted (as a result of cherrypicking). mainly, its conclusion begins: "The results of our surveys and interviews indicate that the Círculos made a mixed contribution to Venezuelan civil society and democracy. As their supporters claimed, the members of Círculos that we interviewed had strong participatory democratic values and were engaged in significant social work." i believe my proposed revision more accurately reflects the "mixed" findings of the study.
 * >According to a study by two Brigham Young University scholars, the "Bolivarian circles" embodied highly democratic goals and methods, in addition to "a charismatic mode of linkage to Chávez" that thwarted their institutionalization; they performed valuable social work, but also tended to reinforce "clientelistic relations between Chávez and the voters, and they did not significantly enhance the level of pluralism in the broader civil society."--Riothero (talk) 00:41, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070702060307/http://bolivariancircle.org:80/ to http://www.bolivariancircle.org
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20040222120955/http://www.zmag.org:80/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=45&ItemID=3971 to http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=45&ItemID=3971

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. Community Tech bot (talk) 13:08, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Hugo Chavez.jpg