Talk:Bolton/Archive 2

Popular culture
Bolton is referenced in the famous Monty Python's Flying Circus "Dead Parrot" sketch, in which it is the location of the shopkeeper's brother's pet shop. The shopkeeper's brother (played by Michael Palin), incorrectly describes the town as Ipswich. On being challenged by Mr Praline (played by John Cleese), Palin's character defends himself, claiming (wrongly) that Ipswich is a palindrome of Bolton. Cleese's character retorts, "It's not a palindrome. The palindrome of Bolton would be Notlob. It don't work." As a consequence, Bolton is sometimes humorously nicknamed, "Notlob". Bolton is also referred to in Monty Python's "Blackmail" sketch, in which the host of the gameshow "Blackmail" (played by Michael Palin) announces that if a Miss Betty Teal from Lancashire sends the show 15 pounds, he will refrain from revealing her lover in Bolton.

In "The Rutles" (Eric Idle, 1978) the bands manager (after Arthur Scouse) was Leggy Mountbatten. In the words of the film "In October 1961 Leggy Mountbatten, a retail chemist from Bolton, entered their lives. Leggy had lost a leg in the closing overs of World War Two and had been hopping around Liverpool ever since. One day he accidentally stumbled down the steps of a dingy disco, what he saw there was to change his life: a sailor who told him about the Rutles. It was a dank, sweaty, basement cellar, torrid and pulsating with sound. Leggy hated it. He hated their music, he hated their hair, he hated their noise: but he loved their trousers."

I am not sure what to do with this :-( It really doesn't tell the reader anything about Bolton so I will leave it here just in case somebody could turn it into a sentence.--J3Mrs (talk) 19:26, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Pronunciation
A recording of this in the local accent would be preferred. That is not how you pronounce 'Bolton'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.240.125.8 (talk) 19:09, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

I would add my own Accent as im from Bolton but dont know how to put it on.If somebody who knows how to put it on wikipedia from my own experience it is pronounced as "Bultern",and a really Broad older version would be "Bowton". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.24.71.211 (talk) 21:58, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Bolton Interchange
I can completely understand why an editor would want to link Bolton Interchange but why say how many bus stands and a (see below.) to something mentioned in the same section is beyond me. The sentence was quite long and mentioned buses before the edit. This article is about Bolton, not bus stops.--J3Mrs (talk) 16:09, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

This article needs serious work
There is little here that tells anyone of our local culture, tourism, football, business and famous people, it really needs a lot of work. Where I find it most lacking is the articles ability to attract anyone to actually visit Bolton. (Pennine rambler (talk) 20:11, 21 May 2010 (UTC))


 * In fairness, Wikipedia's purpose is to be an encyclopaedia rather than an advertising brochure. As you're a local, your insight is welcome and may help identify holes in the articles, but you'll need to be a little more specific in your criticism. For example, you say there's very little on tourism and football, yet the sections on landmarks and sport seem adequate; given the chance and with the necessary sources, how would you improve them? But bear in mind that's it's important to strike a balance between what is relevant to this article and preventing it from becoming bloated with unnecessary detail. Nev1 (talk) 20:20, 21 May 2010 (UTC)


 * It is the lead section that strikes me as stuck in the past and I do not wish to be rude at all but this lead could discribe the town around 60's with a mnetion that Bolton seems to have closed down by the 1980's, the rest of the article had modern updates here and there however the lead is really out of touch with modern Bolton. (Pennine rambler (talk) 22:14, 21 May 2010 (UTC))


 * So what do you suggest? Malleus Fatuorum 23:20, 21 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Quite. It is not wikipedia's purpose to attract anyone to vist anywhere. Its purpose is to present a neutral, balanced account, in this case of Bolton, which I believe the article does. I've been to Bolton many times, and to be honest I always wonder why anyone would want visit the town unless they had to, so I'll be interested to see your suggestions Pennine rambler. Malleus Fatuorum 21:43, 21 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Malleus that is some POV. When were you last in Bolton, its changed a lot over the years. The article I think is stuck somewhere around the time of Spring and Port Wine. Its lead gives me that impression. That its out of date and the lead says nothing about Bolton today. Why did you have such a bad impression of Bolton? (Pennine rambler (talk) 22:08, 21 May 2010 (UTC))


 * I was last in Bolton two weeks ago. Malleus Fatuorum 23:20, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Watson Steel in Lostock
There is some confusion as whether Watson Steel is in Horwich or Bolton. It is actually in the suburb of Lostock in Bolton. Horwich is a town of its own right but administered by Bolton Council. The Bolton News, yet again, has got it wrong. Watsons' full postal address is "Watson Steel Structures Ltd, Lostock Lane, Lostock, Bolton, BL6 4BL". To check the address, go to Royal Mail address finder. I've corrected the economy section of the article to state where Watson is. HLE (talk) 14:39, 22 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for putting that right HLE, at least you know what you are doing :-) --J3Mrs (talk) 17:36, 22 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks again HLE, your a star, I have a question after seeing a note somewhere that said this article was about Bolton the town not borough. Is the education section accurate? (Pennine rambler (talk) 00:31, 26 May 2010 (UTC))


 * I would not put much reliance on postal addresses as they are just that and not necessarily an indication of administration boundaries. Try using the "My Bolton" option on the Bolton Council website, this gives you things like council ward for an address.  If you then select My Maps you can see the location marked on a map showing the boundaries of the various parts of Bolton.  --jmb (talk) 09:40, 26 May 2010 (UTC)


 * In answer to Pennine rambler's education section question. Canon Slade School and Turton High School Media Arts College are technically not part of the actual town of Bolton, but part of South Turton, so it's debatable whether they should be included in the Bolton article. Bradshaw and Bromley Cross have never been made part of the actual town of Bolton, and only became part of the Metropolitan Borough of Bolton in 1974.
 * In reply to Jmb's comment. I agree with you by not putting to much reliance on postal addresses. Atherton comes under the Manchester postal town and M postcode area, but no one believes that Atherton is part of the city of Manchester. The same with Radcliffe, Middleton or Little Hulton are not part of that city. So it is the same with the towns surrounding Bolton. Blackrod, Farnworth, Horwich, Kearsley, Westhoughton, etc., come under the the Bolton postal town and BL postal area, but are not part of the town of Bolton. HLE (talk) 15:10, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Things missing in article
I was taking a look at the Bolton article today and I may have missed these somewhere but they were not obvious: Chartist riots at Little Bolton Town Hall, also Little Bolton conservation area. Samual Oldknow one of Cromptons early customers, (Oldknow family attended Rivington Unitarian) Statues in town centre, who are they and why there? Old steam engine why ? Number of churches past and present, a grave yard was accidentally dug up in the 80's as the council extended top way (nr Pc World). The Mosques. Recent retail parks (nr Trinity Street), Arndale centre (Crompton Place shopping centre) Market Hall. Also Market charter just seems to say charter. Royal Bolton hospital performance. Expected lifespan, Local minority groups not just a note in demography. Effect of arrival of Irish and why they came. Local celebrations like the Hindu festival, the European market days, tolerance and integration - reaction to EDL, then there is also the local gay and lesbian community, Non conformist in history of the town (Civil war and later). Arrival of railway, effect on town, move of railway station why tower on the interchange? Creation of Queen Park, its has a national lottery grant. (Once had a large greenhouse with Butterfly world) Museum special collections and regular displays. Bolton college and University perfromance, former water place and the royal visits including Diana to Bolton. Bolton Little Theatre - Sir Ian McKellan connection also he is connected to Bolton School. Nightlife, cafe and bars, crime prevention. Pilot schemes launched in Bolton (Free laptops for kids most recent. It does seem like a big list but its not a small town its aims for city status also not mentioned. (80.47.114.104 (talk) 19:50, 31 May 2010 (UTC)).

Economy Section 07 / 09 data
Bolton received high grant funding as having deprived areas in 2000 but the Indices of deprivation are out of date, the recent 2007 figures are not there, current details are at: []

[]

Next reports are due this year. (80.47.114.104 (talk) 00:26, 1 June 2010 (UTC))

Bolton does not appear on either the list of highest or lowest for 2009 local index of child well being. The town is not in the highest or lowest on the 2007 Indices of Deprivation are also greatly different to those given here. Bolton has a score 29.67.

(80.47.114.104 (talk) 00:46, 1 June 2010 (UTC))

Museum No. 5 on most popular list
|Source

(80.47.114.104 (talk) 22:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC))

Largest amateur theatre network in the UK
Notable addition needed in culture section,

Bolton is the envy of many towns as it is the largest amateur theatre network in the UK. http://www.b-a-t-s.net

(Pennine rambler (talk) 21:54, 2 June 2010 (UTC)).

Gay & Lesbian Bolton
I think the article needs to have a mention of the Gay & Lesbian culture, perhaps a paragraph, somewhere the Bolton 7 case really needs to be mentioned in that, the world media descended on Bolton for that case. From what I recall the Star and Garter is the longest established Gay & Lesbian Pub and has raised funds for charity and aided volunteer work in Bolton, it also has its own history to do with a ship. There are details at Bolton archive, one earlier group I can recall is YGLIB, the youth service will have modern details and the CVS will hopefully have more information to. Maybe editors could come up with ideas for an inclusion. Do other editors agree? (Pennine rambler (talk) 11:46, 3 June 2010 (UTC)).

Police Station
The central Police station closed a good while ago its moved to Scholey Street, off Manchester Rd. I have corrected it, (Pennine rambler (talk) 00:21, 5 June 2010 (UTC))

Parks
I cannot see any mention of Queens Park. (Pennine rambler (talk) 00:55, 5 June 2010 (UTC))

Have added Queens Park under landmarks.

(Pennine rambler (talk) 01:39, 5 June 2010 (UTC))

Focus
There are some important elements missing from this article, it does not explain how Great Bolton became dominant to Little Bolton, taking the latter into the town of Bolton.

In focus there is a section that is adding information from sites a good distance from Bolton, some sites are as close to Bolton as Bolton is to Bury, if this article is about Bolton only, not the borough or Bolton le Moors then sites outside Great Bolton or Little Bolton should be excluded or refer the article to articles about the Borough at least.

Man has lived on the moors around Bolton for many thousands of years evidenced by a stone circle on Cheetham Close above //Egerton//[8][9] and Bronze Age burial mounds on //Winter Hill//.[10] A Bronze Age mound was excavated in Victorian times outside //Haulgh Hall//.

The Romans built roads from Manchester to Ribchester to the east and a road along what is now the A6 to the west. It is claimed that Agricola built a //fort at Blackrod// by clearing land above the forest.

Further, Bolton on the Moors is what we now call the borough, the towns motto is said to come from the old name of the combined areas of Great and Little Bolton, Bolton le Moors, this area being later expanded further to take in many towns nearby.

The article also goes to Smithells Hall, that is a good walk from the location of Great or Little Bolton.

What is the article about? Bolton, Bolton le Moors, Bolton Borough?

Its hard to imagine how this article got a GA article quality status, its seriously lacking and missing large chunks of history that related to the towns very formation, Great and Little Bolton. Its needs work. --Pennine rambler (talk) 14:15, 15 May 2011 (UTC)


 * I'll try to answer Pennine rambler's points listed above:
 * Great Bolton and Little Bolton, along with the Haulgh, formed the County Borough of Bolton in 1838. There was no dominance of one or the other, they were simply amalgamated.
 * I'm not sure what Pennine rambler means about the distances from Bolton. The Geography section shows the neighbouring towns, villages and other places which surround the town and don't see it should be altered or removed.
 * I don't think there should be any mention about the A6 and the Roman fort at Blackrod. The A6 barely comes within the town's boundaries and the fort is not even in the town.
 * Bolton is built on moorland. As such it became known as Bolton on the moors and Bolton le moors, the latter giving its name to the large parish. It shows it with names such as Great Moor Street and Moor Lane. So it is acceptable to mention in the article about the Bronze Age settlers. In fact Bolton-le-Moors was once the correct postal address of the town.
 * The town's motto "Supera Moras" is in Latin and means "Overcome delays".
 * Yes, Smithills Hall was once part of the northern area of the township of Halliwell. The southern part became the Halliwell Ward of the county borough in 1877. The northern part became known as Smithills. Since 1895, the Smithills area, including the hall, became part of the county borough of Bolton (ie. part of the town of Bolton). So although a good walk from Bolton town centre, the hall is within the town's boundaries.
 * The Bolton article should be mainly about the actual town rather than the larger metropolitan borough, but since the town is the seat of a metropolitan borough, information of the latter needs to be mentioned, although not indepth. The same with its historic parish of Bolton le Moors, it too needs to be mentioned, but not indepth.
 * I hope this will answer some or all those points, -- HLE (talk) 22:45, 15 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks, that is construcive, Could you give it a trim, the section I refer to is early history, I agree about the A6, in the article. I am not sure why early dwelling lists locatons miles away, would it not be better to focus on the town - Bolton?--Pennine rambler (talk) 05:10, 16 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Very little evidence is left of Bolton's earliest settlers within the town's boundaries. There is/was the Bronze Age mound excavated near Haulgh Hall, but that is about it. Way back then the town hardly existed, if at all. The beginning of the 'Early history' section mentions of the early settlers around Bolton, evidenced by the stone circles near Egerton and burial mounds on Winter Hill. So the article does not actual say they were within the town's boundaries but near to it. So I think it is quite acceptable to mention of the nearby Bronze Age information. I agree that the article should focus on the actual town, but there has to be a little bit of some leeway. -- HLE (talk) 14:28, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Mileage
It is alot more than 10 Miles from Bolton Town Centre to Manchester. I live in Farnworth,Bolton and to Manchester it is still well over 10 miles,i think ive clocked it at over 14 Miles,so from Bolton Town Centre it is about 2 miles from where i live to Bolton Town Centre,so from Bolton Town Centre to Manchester it is at least 16 or 17 Miles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.22.226.231 (talk) 20:19, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Google Earth says 10 miles from Bolton Town Hall to St Ann's square. So, near enough.  Mr Stephen (talk) 20:37, 6 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Probably 16 or 17 miles to drive, yes, but not as the crow flies. Malleus Fatuorum 20:58, 6 December 2011 (UTC)


 * More like 12 or 13, it's a pretty straight route.J3Mrs (talk) 21:07, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I used to drive from Stretford to Breightmet fairly regularly, and that's pretty much exactly 14 miles up the motorway, and about two miles further on than the town centre, so yeah, about 12 miles. Malleus Fatuorum 21:19, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

I dont think as a crow flies distance matters one bit,afterall you cant drive where a crow flies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.22.226.231 (talk) 19:49, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

County
Is it worth mentioning that in the postal service a great deal of people still list Lancashire as the county? My letters off the NHS and other government channels all came addressed with Lancashire and not Greater Manchester. 94.194.252.19 (talk) 20:59, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
 * You mean, is it worth mentioning in every single article about a settlement in Greater Manchester that Greater Manchester was not a postal county? No.  Mr Stephen (talk) 21:03, 29 March 2012 (UTC)


 * The Royal Mail have ignored counties probably since the 1980s? You can put whatever county you like on a letter; all the Royal Mail cares about is the post code and postal town. Malleus Fatuorum 21:20, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Bolton dialect
The dialect of the people of Bolton is useful information. Shorrocks's study is significant enough to be mentioned in the article on Lancashire dialect. It should at least be included in a list of further reading in this article.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 19:03, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It might be useful but the way it was added to the article was not. If you add information to good articles you might at least adopt the same citation style as the rest of the article. J3Mrs (talk) 10:10, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Apparently the substandard citation style was not the reason for removing it. It would be possible to expand the text if an editor was able to consult an abstract of the thesis or study the books in a library.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 21:46, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Bolton on Wikivoyage
I'm currently attempting to bring the Bolton page (here) on Wikimedia's new Wikivoyage travel guide up to speed. If any of you feel inclined to have look or have a play, please do! I fear I can't do the article justice on my own and I'm a little concerned about the fidelity of some of the content I inherited. I'm also attempting to update the Horwich page (here), so if anybody has any ideas for that too, I'd be extremely grateful. --Nicholasjf21 (talk) 00:32, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 6 August 2013
Hello, Can this page be updated so instead of being called "Bolton" it is called "Bolton,United Kingdom" when I add the page as my location ON websites such as Facebook it just says Bolton which cause confusion with friends from abroad. Most other city`s and towns have United Kingdom in the title.

It would be really helpful.

199.68.218.184 (talk) 16:47, 6 August 2013 (UTC)


 * This article's title is in line with the naming conventions, but to help the easily confused I have created a redirect from Bolton, United Kingdom (at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bolton,_United_Kingdom ) that I hope will suit. Mr Stephen (talk) 17:06, 6 August 2013 (UTC)


 * That sounds like a helpful solution. I'm closing the edit request, but IP 199.68.218.184 should feel free to reopen it if he or she has further concerns about the article's title. Rivertorch (talk) 09:19, 7 August 2013 (UTC)