Talk:Boniface I, Marquis of Montferrat

Old talk
I'm curious as to the origin of the line "Boniface had nothing to recommend him as a leader of the Crusades: he had little to no military experience, and was more notable as a patron of troubadors (...)". Reading Queller and Madden: The Fourth Crusade (1997) Boniface is described quite to the contrary: "In his early fifties Boniface was a mature leader with long experience of command. (...) His aptitude in diplomacy is proved by his ability to retain the trust of the pope in spite of his loyalty to the Hohenstaudfen. He was widely regarded as an ideal Christian knight. (...) He was one of the best fighting men and commanders of his day."

He is described by his contemporary Geoffroy de Villehardouin as very worthy and valiant, and one of the most highly prized of living men. In the words of Robert of Clari the barons of the Fourth Crusade spoke to him as the worthiest man that we knew and the one that could bring the best counsel to our undertaking.

~ Havard 11:05, 29 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I've dealt with that in my edits and rectified it. I don't know where the original writer got the idea he was inexperienced: his military experience, which included Henry VI's Sicilian campaign, is well-attested. Vaqueiras's Epic Letter gives a great deal of detail on his early career. Silverwhistle 10:38, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

King Conrad of Jerusalem?
You state Boniface was brother of Conrad King of Jerusalem. Conrad was never crowned king, he was assassinated on the street before his coronation. The crown was passed straight to Henry of Champaign, (nephew of Richard I of England, and Philip II of France)


 * He was elected, and acted, as king though. Havard 10:24, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Conrad was king by right after his marriage to Isabella of Jerusalem in November 1190, but Guy de Lusignan (who had similarly held the crown through his wife) refused to step aside after being widowed. Conrad's title was confirmed by election in April 1192, but he was assassinated a few days later. Henry of Champagne only succeeded through marrying Isabella (who was pregnant by Conrad) a week later. Conrad also had some claim as nearest male relative of Baldwin V of Jerusalem. Silverwhistle 20:12, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Excrescent picture of Boniface being elected.
It seems too big and is tangled with the paragraph. I tried to correct it and couldn't, so perhaps someone else can sort it.--qp10qp 21:03, 30 July 2006 (UTC)


 * How is it now? Adam Bishop 23:22, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Ah, that's excellent. Cheers. I can sleep well, now.--qp10qp 00:54, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Second Marriage
The research justifying Boniface's second marriage to Jeanne is interesting but doesn't really hold up. Raynald de Châtillon did have two daughters with Constance of Antioch, but their names were Agnes and Alice, not Maria and Jeanne. The author of the Lignages d'Outremer appears to confuse Constance's first daughter from her first marriage with her first daughter from her second marriage, hence Maria for Agnes, and that casts doubt on his clarity elsewhere. I have no idea where he got the name Jeanne, maybe the early fourteenth-century duchess of Athens, but the identity of her supposed husband as the "king of Salonica" appears to be the result of confusing Azzo VI d'Este with Boniface of Montferrat, both famous marquises from Italy. The absence of any mention of a prestigious bride from overseas, right as the antecedents of the Third Crusade were beginning to gather, by either chroniclers or troubadours makes it easier to regard this as a coincidence of two errors (or one error and one deliberate falsehood, if Boniface lied to Byzantine envoys about his marital status). Gormongous (talk) 01:08, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

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