Talk:Bono/Archive 1

Jtdirl comment
Great. That means there are now three people on wikipedia I have met. Roll on number 4. STÓD/ÉÍRE 06:01 Mar 28, 2003 (UTC)

"orthodox economic theory"
As the leader of the "Drop the Debt" Campaign, Bono has been strongly criticised in asking the top twenty-five wealthiest countries to write off the debts owed by the poorest countries. Critics claim that this amounts to asking the public to pay for the debt, even though orthodox economic theory would suggest that it would (in the long run) make both developed and developing nations better off. This italicized clause smells bunk to me. I'm taking it out unless someone can cite this "economic theory." 68.107.83.19 02:50, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Name
The explanation of his nickname should be moved to the first mention of him obtaining it. Placing it further down in the article leads to confusion and it seems out of place there.

Translating "Bono Vox" as "voice of the good man" doesn't correspond to any Latin construction I'm aware of. To say "of the good man", it seems far better to put the adjective "bonus, -a, -um" in the genitive singular: "Boni Vox". However, the name "Bono" could very well be interpreted as a dative singular neuter, in which case "Bono Vox" would mean "a voice *for the good*". Am I missing something, any classicists who may be reading this, or is the foregoing paragraph correct? I don't want to change the article before checking with others who may be more knowledgeable.

Bonavox was a name of a hearing aid shop and he was called Bono because someone mistook the where the o and the a were.


 * You're right. A while ago, I put something in the article about it literally translating to "the voice to the good man," but for is an alternate use of the dative.  Anyway, it seems people don't want to make him seem really ignorant.  The article says "roughly" to describe the translation.  It's very rough.  It almost looks like someone with a Spanish background figured that bono must be the masculine version.

There are stories about misreading signs.. When you hear "Ye Olde ____," it isn't Ye, and has nothing to do with ye; someone misread a thorn, (looks like a p combined with an l), the Old Engish version of "th," and wrote Y.

Social Justice
Why is this section called "social justice?" Call it what it is: socialism. Calling it "social justice" is biased because it assumes that wealth redistribution is just and that in order to have a just society, everyone must have equal wealth. These are socialist principles and should be labeled as such. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 158.135.1.92 (talk • contribs).


 * I would suggest a careful study of the topic of Social justice, both here on Wikipedia and through other sources before trying to demonize it by lumping it in with either Communism or Socialism. The Bill of Rights of our own Constitution is made up of many social justice ideals, including freedom of thought, liberty of conscience, political liberties (e.g. representative democratic institutions, freedom of speech and the press, and freedom of assembly), freedom of association, freedoms necessary for the liberty and integrity of the person (viz: freedom from slavery, freedom of movement and a reasonable degree of freedom to choose one's occupation); and rights and liberties covered by the rule of law.
 * JesseG 09:11, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

And that is not the context in which Bono's work is discussed. As it pertains to Bono, it involves wealth redistribution.

Nobel Peace Prize nomination
Being nominated for the Peace Prize is an honor, but it is not official and not necessarily prestigious. Any national legislator or about a third of the university professors in the world can make a nomination, and there have been as many as 140 some years. Nominators are requested to keep their nominations secret, so it's only those wishing publicity who make announcements. Altogether, I see no reason to keep it. No offense to the subject, this is a general Nobel Peace Prize "nominees" issue. -Willmcw 07:36, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * In 2005 he was one of 166 people nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for his work on Third World debt relief and increasing AIDS awareness.


 * I agree. Removed.  Palefire 02:05, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)

Am I alone in finding this article ridiculously underfocused on Bono's musical career?? Dexter, 06:21, July 9, 2005 (GMT)
 * I agree. More information needs to be included such as the fact that he was nominated as one of MTV's 22 Greatest Voices in Music. AmritTuladhar

Since we've decided to take out the Nobel nominations (I know he's been nominated more than once...I remember that he was on the list back the Elevation days, too), what's the verdict on his being (one of) TIME Magazine's Person of the Year 2005? It makes more since to include that than the Nobel nomination, since he actually GOT the award, but not if the goal is to try to move the focus of the article to his music career...--AaronM 15:56, 18 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Maybe we could put that Bono was "considered" for the Nobel Prize, since we've got plenty of sources for that. That does not deserve more than a line or two in the "Social Justice" section, though. The goal IS tomove the focus to his musical career, but I guess we shoud do that by ADDING more info about his work with U2. :) --Kristbg 16:49, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Billy Corgan
The line about Bono being "lifelong" friends with Billy Corgan seems unlikely. Bono grew up in Ireland; Billy in Chicago. More than a decade separates the time when they first achieved fame. Also, I doubt that Billy is actually one of Bono's top two favorite musicians. Bono says that kind of thing about quite a few musicians. For example, in a recent book of interviews with a French journalist, he says something to the effect that Bob Dylan's work is important to him than anyone else's.


 * This makes no sense. Even if it was true, which I doubt, it it irrelevant and should not take that much space in the article. I removed it. --Kristbg 14:18, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Christianity?
Shouldn't this article mention the fact that Bono is a Christian? It seems pretty central to his worldview. I'm not sure how to edit it or even what to say, so hopefully someone in the future could phrase it correctly.


 * I agree that it should be included. However the category of "Born-again Christians" might not be correct. Here he says "I never really accepted the whole "born again" tag... I accepted it on one level, in that I loved the idea of being reborn.... I think people should be reborn every day, man!" Can we find a better reference for his beliefs? -Willmcw 15:23, September 8, 2005 (UTC)


 * I think you have to allow that he is generally accepted to be "born again". (Actually, you quote him saying that he accepts it on the (let's call it) spiritual level. He goes on to say that what he doesn't accept is the political implications that it brings.) He gave a long interview, or series of interviews to Christianity Today, which previously profiled him, which describe his beliefs very well. I think people generally consider him "born again" because he has a nondemoninational faith that he adopted having rejected his native faith, if that makes sense. I don't have a horse in the race myself and I don't have the inclination to fix this rather poor article but I think you were a bit rash to remove the category. Still, if you're convinced that the evidence points elsewhere, please go ahead and recategorise him. Personally, I'm not all that keen on "label" type categories anyway. Luther Blissett 02:05, 9 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't really care one way or another. However if we are going to categorize him by religion then there should be some mention of his religious views in the article itself. -Willmcw 23:41, September 12, 2005 (UTC)


 * Also, note that his religious views changed significantly between the 1989 and 2005 interviews cited above. At some point fairly recently (I'm not sure when), his religion became a lot more important to him. &mdash;Andy Bonner, non-registered user

On his most recent Vertigo tour, He sported a headband with symbols of Islam, Christianity and Judiasm. He belives that all three religions are true. This, i belive, is a departure from Christian views


 * No. The symbols helped spell out the word "Coexist."  I think a fair interpretation is that he thought the three religions (and indeed all religions) should be able to get along with each other.

In the British TV show Bono's Millions, the childhood friend being interviewed ends the programme by saying that Bono will not be happy until the Pope is a Protestant. That humourous comment hints that his schoolfriends thought that he was more inclined to the Church of Ireland. Anyway, it would be better to also have him mentioned under Roman Catholicism than to remove him from the Church of Ireland. Rockdgu6 00:36, 16 Octover 2006 (UTC)

If He is listed as beig and Irish Anglican I think it would be safe to list him as a Roman Catholic, since we do not know what religion he chose (or was raised as). I'm putting it.

I try to put it but somebody keeps reporting me for vandalism, plus on Bono and The Edge: Off The Record, Bono says he suffers from Catholic guilt. The page is blocked fr vandalism, someone put it for me, please.

Guitar
"Initially Bono sang, played guitar and wrote songs; as The Edge became a better guitarist, Bono was relegated to vocals only."I think this statement should be rewritten as Bono still plays rythm guitar on some songs. Anyone agree. Tunney 23:41, 22 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Go for it SqueakBox 23:51, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
 * Seem him in concert and he does play on occassion. I do think that the statement"Bono was relegated to vocals only" isn't appropriate. Everyone knows him and the edge but not really the remaining ones. 71.28.245.177 22:11, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Bono was never shown playing guitar in the early videos and I never saw him play guitar in concert on the Boy or October US tours. The first time I saw him play was in Rattle and Hum and that was the 4th U2 concert I saw. To say that he initially played guitar and wrote songs and later became relegated to vocals implies a conversation between the band members that may or may not have happened. . . but for which there is no evidence. What we do know is that he and Edge have written most of the songs that made them Rolling Stone's Band of the Decade for the 1980's. Why wasn't that mentioned? Bono plays guitar on "A Day Without Me" on the Red Rocks Video.

Cleanup
Bono and U2 didn't happen upon their activism, as mentioned in the Social Justice section of this article, in the 90's. I attended U2 concerts in the mid 80's where they mentioned Unicef and encouraged their fans to become involved in the organization on behalf of poor children. Unicef should be mentioned and linked. Thanks.

This article moves from showing up at the audition for U2 to 1999 and debt reduction. I think it skips a year or two. Tuf-Kat 07:05, Apr 23, 2004 (UTC)

This article is a real mess as it is... As said before, there's little about his musical career, there are sentences thrown around, out of context... I think it should be cleaned up. Maybe take out a few of the irrelevant quotes, rearrange some information (like the sections on Bioware and the World Bank), and put some more info on the years between 1980 and 2001 (there's too much stuff from 2005!). --Kristbg 00:32, 15 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I added a to do list to this page. Hope it'll help a little! --Kristbg 13:59, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

"Quotations"
Being a stickler for grammar, the subsection should be "quotations" instead of "quotes." Also, as far as the quotations themselves go, Bono has some way better ones than that. I plan on adding a few...--AaronM 00:15, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Wealth
According to the BBC Bono is worth about 108 million pounds or about 180 million dollars. This is his liquid assetts and does not cover fixed or future assetts (such as royalties). To be 'born again' dont you have to give 'sell your possessions and follow me'? I look forward to the day when I hear Bono makes a $10+ million donation. There's also something about a rich man and a camel I believe.

moved section on"egotism"
I moved this out of the article space. Even with the POV-check tag, it is just too intensely POV to stay in the article space.

Egotism
Joyous | Talk 04:01, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I didn't know what to do with that, so I added the POV tag. It clearly is not vandalism because there are some thought-out points made; it just is not presented in an unbiased manner. joturner 04:05, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Since the article text the POV check is being requested for is no longer in the article, I've converted the template into a template link so this talk page does not appear on the POV check list. Good luck -- ShinmaWa(talk) 20:12, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Picture
The one up now looks terrible. Can anyone find a better one? --Kristbg 23:03, 27 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I changed the main picture to one from the iPod video commercial. Still far from ideal, but this one looks a little better, I think. --Kristbg 01:38, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately we have no fair use claim as we have many free images for Bono so I restored the other one. Arniep 22:07, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Ooops. Still trying to master the copyright thing. --Kristbg 00:06, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
 * regardless, that picture doesnt even look like him and is in danger of damaging this artical.
 * Yeah, I was gonna post about that to, that's a terrible picture, and is early All That You Can't Leave Behind era (2000 as it says), while it's already six years from now and he looks totally different... we should find one from either How to Dismantle or 18 Singles era soon... --Darkedge

Bono and Wikipedia?
Is this section usefull? Even as a wikipedian I don't care... --T-rex 00:43, 29 March 2006 (UTC) '''hey i changed da foto 2 a new 1. can ne1 tell me wats written on da blindfold?'''

Bono and Gay Rights
I searched the google and I didn´t find a single reference about is position about gay marriage. Can the person who add this, show a source for this point ? User:Mistico


 * What? Why? Surely it's only important if he's expressed an opinion on it. I guess you're welcome to add an entry saying "Bono has expressed no favouritism for either position on gay rights/marriage.", but it'll probably be deleted quite quickly. Nasajin 20:41, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Bono and Wikipedia
News reports state that in March 2006 a group associated with Bono has started a campaign of altering articles about politicians whose attention they want to attract at Wikipedia. , , .

These stories are referring to these edits:,.

Cedarwood Grange where he is from is in Glasnevin and not Ballymun. Should wikipedia repeat his false biography?

Nobel Peace Prize
I've removed the line about him being nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. According to the page on the Nobel Prize, " [u] nlike many other awards, the Nobel Prize nominees are never publicly announced, and they are not supposed to be told that they were ever considered for the prize. These records are sealed for 50 years." 204.40.1.129 19:18, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

RED??
"In May 2006, Bono became Editor of The Independent newspaper - albeit for one day in aid of the (RED) charity" What is RED and why is it in parenthesis? -Jeff

Maybe thats the way its spelt? i dont know,looks weird. Lord revan 16:06, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

(RED) is a campaign that has a well-known brand (so far the list includes Armani, the GAP, AmEx, etc.) design a product, usually in red, to raise both awareness and funds towards the issues faced by the African continent.

(RED) is a new line of credit-card by American Express. Amex will donate 1% of revenues generated by consumers who purchase certain "African-made" products with the card to combat AIDS in Africa. Bono is spearheading the campaign. Freud Communications are strategic-consultants hired to promote (RED) led by Matthew Freud who hosted an exclusive private party to promote the CARD!, Bono gave a speech. Bono has an honourable desire to tackle some world problems, how he goes about it, we may disagree on. And I think it completely tasteless of Matthew Freud to use a horrific situation in Africa to try and smooth a pathway for a gaming license application he's trying to achieve for Anshultz Entertainment Group by way of inviting South African businessman Sol Kerzner (Bono is familiar with this fella) a business partner of AEG, and a company who also retain the services of Freud PR, it seems that the editor of the sleaze-rag The Sun combined with Freud to dupe Tony Blair into having a chance encounter with this casino-king.

I know theres a critisism here, but I wouldn't be neutral enough to Edit it. I'd probably get booted off wikipedia. But using a 'celeb' party to promote the issue of Aids in Africa as a smokescreen to aquaint a south african casino operator with the UK prime minister to help smooth a business deal hardly smacks of charity. Perhaps there should be another section below critisms that deal with companies that use Bono's image as an humanitarian to further their own agendas and financial dealings.

Dean1970 October 5th, 2006.

Article Improvement Drive
I nominated this article on Article Improvement Drive. This one sure needs some group effort. Please go there and vote for it if you agree! --Kristbg 14:55, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Bono's eye disease
Someone should mention his eye disorder, where he if he isnt wearing incredibly flamboyant sunglasses, he'll explode into a million bad records.


 * What it is is that if he is flash photographed without glasses his eyesight is temporarily affected and his eyes swell up badly. Given that due to his fame he is liable at any minute to be suddenly photographed by someone, whether a professional photographer or a member of the public, he needs to wear the glasses all the time for protection. (As someone with an eye disorder I can understand his concern. Luckily I don't get photographed that often. But when photographed I have to wear dark glasses if possible.) FearÉIREANN [[Image:Map of Ireland's capitals.png|15px]]\(caint)|undefined 23:42, 12 July 2006 (UTC)


 * On a related note, what kind of sunglasses are they? Does he have a specific brand he endorses? I'm curious.--MythicFox 11:57, 27 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I couldn't tell you the brand, but I can tell you they're not sunglasses. They're just regular ones, as you can see on Bono's page. I'm skeptical about his eye condition, as glasses such as the ones he wears focusses flash lights onto the rods and cones at the rear of his eyes. Furthermore, there are heaps of early videos of him performing without the glasses - if he didn't always have the condition, when did he get it and why? Any references? Nasajin 20:39, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I definitely read an article about him saying he needed these glasses for the reasons mentioned with the eyes swelling (I'll look for a source). Also, he wears Armani glasses. http://www.unitedshades.com/product.asp?idmodel=ea9285 Phillies26 01:33, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Although I have heard the eye disease reason, this from his interview with Andrew Denton might be interesting (being Andrew Denton, the whole interview is excellent - over 1 hour - try and get the video but transcript is fine):

''ANDREW DENTON: You were asked recently why you never took off the glasses and you said, “Because I don’t want to give - it would give too much away.” And the eyes are the window to the soul. Bono, what is it that you don’t want us to know?'' BONO: There’s a lot. ANDREW DENTON: Do tell.

''BONO: I mean, I’ve got a - there’s many reasons for the glasses — posing, I’m sure, right up there, privacy, and I do like having one step of a remove, actually. I don’t think I have - I don’t think when I’m singing I hold anything back and I don’t think when I’m writing I hold anything back. But I think I’m allowed to hold something back in this kind of a set-up, and, as honest a man that you are and as honest as I’m trying to be, there is a natural insincerity in the kind of - in the set-up, and I’m trying to be much better at it, but I just need one step removed. ''

''ANDREW DENTON: That’s a good answer. ''

--Merbabu 04:44, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Move to Paul David Hewson
I have to say I strongly disagree with moving Bono to Paul David Hewson. A very small minority identifies him with the latter name. I actually think that Bono (musician) is a more appropriate title than Paul David Hewson, but what do I know. :-) -- timc  talk  19:06, 12 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with you, not alot of people assocate him with his real name. Note though that when I made the move I placed the disamiguation page inplace of the old Bono page for users searching for the U2 Bono to find. --Bonojohn 19:25, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I also strongly disagree with moving him. There are many examples on Wikipedia where the article title is the stage name/pseudonym rather than the real name:
 * Jewel
 * Sting
 * Madonna
 * Larry the Cable Guy
 * John Wayne
 * Mark Twain
 * The key is not their real name, but the name by which they are best known. I agree with timc — the title of his page should be Bono (musician) or Bono (singer). Bono (this page) should be renamed Bono (disambiguation). Paul David Hewson should be a redirect to Bono (singer).
 * --Juansmith 23:19, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * --Juansmith 23:19, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * --Juansmith 23:19, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I dissagree, a move to Bono (singer) is inapproprate because there is also a Sonny Bono that is a singer. I agree with who ever put it as Bono(U2) that is more approprate! --Bonojohn 23:31, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Who on earth . . . ?
Who on earth moved the page unilaterally to Paul David Hewson. No-one calls him that, not even his family. Wikipedia's rules are laid out clearly under the Manual of Style. We use the Most Common Name of a person, i.e., the name they are most widely known by. That is Bono. Even if there was a justifiable reason for moving him (and there is none, not least our own rules on names) there is a formal procedure for moving articles, whereby a move is formally requested, advertised and voted on. It is not done on one person's whim. I've moved him to Bono (U2), which covers the fact that he is a singer, a songwriter, a composer, a guitarist and a campaigner. Using U2 is the clearest disambiguation reference and the one most people will recognise, because it is unique. FearÉIREANN \(caint)|undefined 23:38, 12 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Ahhh what a hypocrite you state the rules for a change and then you yourself change it without complying to the rules. I may not have complyed to the rules but at least I dont use it in my argument and go do it. Sonny Bono, Steve Bono, Edward De Bono all deserve to be recognized as BONO... Its not even his real name for christ sake. He messed up the hole pernunciation. --Bonojohn 23:45, 12 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Crap. You moved the article unilaterally. Admins often move back a page moved unilaterally without going through RM. That is how unilateral changes are fixed. As there was now a problem returning to the original page name, a variant on the issue had to be used. Grow up and stop acting the ass. FearÉIREANN [[Image:Map of Ireland's capitals.png|15px]]\(caint)|undefined 03:38, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Do us all a favor, Bonojohn... Lighten the fuck up, will ya please? Face it, changing it to his real name was a bad move on your part. Anything beyond that (e.g. which parenthetical to place after his name) is open to debate. Disagreeing with you doesn't make someone a hypocrite (or wrong). That's what these talk pages are for. Civilized debate. And on such a major page as this, there should definitely be discussion before the page is moved. --Juansmith 06:31, 13 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I showed you what you did wrong when you showed me what I should have done diffrently. I then told you how you made the same mistake, yes hypocrite was a strong word but it was a comparison. Maby you should "lighten up" I mean no one swore. I told you my reasons for the change and thats it. --Bonojohn 07:11, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you didn't read the signatures too carefully, but at no point have you pointed out anything that I did wrong. As for the swearing, grow up, little man. A phrase like "lighten the fuck up" is said with the utmost calm. In fact, it's rather like its counterpart, "Calm the fuck down". Either phrase is meant to be the catalyst for some meaningful introspection, and perhaps a bit of the kicking back with a cold beverage and realizing that none of it really matters that much as long as we're all contributing something meaningful. This post is a perfect example. If at any point you feel that educating someone on the internet about basic matters of etiquette would be a worthwhile or otherwise fruitful venture, it's either time to go to sleep, or time to remove the pole from your rectum. I shall do one of the above post haste. Cheers. -Juansmith 08:21, 13 July 2006 (UTC) PS: Calm the fuck down :)


 * Hey man, all I was saying is that you got way to into it with the swearing. Its a simple conversation, no need for the fucks. This is quite stupid so lets just let it be, whats done is done. --Bonojohn 17:21, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Languages
It would make sense if Bono spoke French, owning a villa on the French Riviera. I honestly don't know if he speaks Italian. However, I've heard Bono speak Spanish, and believe you me, he is not fluent in it. I think those languages he "reportedly" speaks should be looked into, if not removed. Enakarasuma 23:01, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Criticisms cleanup
Oddly, despite his devotion to his homeland (he has always lived there, even when the lack of musical infrastructure would have suggested London or New York to be better launchpads for U2, he is less than loved in Ireland.[citation needed] U2 are able to exploit a 1969 artists-tax exemption, intended to help struggling artists, and pay relatively little tax despite their great wealth (estimated at €800 million by the Sunday Times). This coupled with his charity campaigning has led to accusations that he is two-faced in the Irish Media. When he criticised the Irish government for not meeting the target of 0.7% of GDP to be set-aside for the 3rd World - a politician suggested that if he paid his taxes then the government would be half way to meeting the figure.[citation needed]

Somehow, I don't think we really need this. The first few lines are heavily opinionated (and I don't think there are any references that say that Bono isn't liked in Ireland), beyond the amount acceptable for Wikipedia. On top of that, there are no sources for the whole 0.7% GDP debarcle, and we don't even know which politician this person's on about! The use of the word "exploit" in this context is inappropriate (too opinionated).

Personally, I think that this paragraph can just go. I'll leave it here so that, in case anyone STRONGLY disagrees, they can put it back. Sebrat 18:59, 8 August 2006

Excuse me Sebrat - check out last Sunday's Irish Sunday Independent at unison.ie which exclusively reported that U2 are moving their entire business operation to Amsterdam in order to avoid an Irish tax clampdown... In Monday's Irish Times, Bono was described in a leader as "not much of an Irishman" in relation to this so I think this must go back in. The politician quoted was Conor Lenihan. This is important because it shows Bono's latent hypocrisy, lecturing governments while refusing to pay tax in his own country.

Sebrat - Touché. This does need a cleanup, though, because it comes out sounding opinionated. Can we rewrite it so that it has more verifiable sources?

NOT everyone can be a rock star and a humanitarian activist. Imagine letting Robbie Williams lecture us on Third World poverty, for example, or Keith Richards. But Bono manages it. He pulls off the tricky feat of being simultaneously hip and worthy, combining a rock star image with a social conscience. I can't think of too many people who could persuade a Pope to wear wraparound shades.

Bob Geldof has had to surrender his rock star status and Coldplay' Chris Martin is regarded as a bit eccentric, but Bono continues to fill stadiums and trounce boy bands in the charts - while retaining the muscle to co-organise the Live 8 concert and attend world economic summits. He has moral authority, a quality our spiritual and some of our political leaders aspire to but few achieve. There are many more pretenders to moral authority than holders of it, largely because it's built up painstakingly over years; it doesn't materialise off-the-peg when someone is handed a mitre or a ministerial box.

Moral authority can evaporate overnight, however.

Bono's hasn't been destroyed but it has sustained collateral damage. And all to save a fairly paltry sum of money if you're a multi-millionaire. Now that a generous tax break is being capped - a get-out-of-jail-free card on royalties which has served the band's finances well for 20 years - U2 has whipped its music publishing business out of Ireland and into Holland. By going along with this, Bono saves his share of an estimated €15m a year.

In the context of U2's joint worth €690m, give or take the odd million, according to this year's Sunday Times Rich List, it's the equivalent of you or I saving ourselves the price of a few tanks of petrol. Definitely not worth the PR fallout.

If Bono belonged to the Mick Jagger/Rod Stewart rock school nobody would bat an eyelid. We accept they're hopelessly self-absorbed, and inclined to husband their resources and invest their squillions with a passion once directed at rock 'n' roll.

But Bono is a different class of rock star - a gifted performer but a rounded human being besides. A rock star with a cause, if you like. Granted, we occasionally tease him about his messianic complex, but most of us are proud to count him as a fellow Irishman. I am, for what it's worth.

I remember watching in amazement when he disembarked from a flight to Los Angeles on which I was also a passenger, to be mobbed by US immigration officials. I always assumed these guys had their jaws wired shut as soon as they were hired, so sullen are they, but they queued up to high-five Bono. He was first off the flight and last out of the terminal, while his wife minded the luggage and smiled patiently. You had the impression Ali Hewson was no stranger to waiting around while Bono fielded admirers.

And it's not only because he's a rock star, it's because he's something better than that. He's a rock star who uses his privileged position to make a difference. He knows he'll be mocked for it, and I expect Larry and the other lads occasionally tell him to give over with the preaching, but it doesn't deter him. Bono doesn't care about looking uncool from time to time because he sees how world leaders prick up their ears when he opens his mouth.

<>

Of course he and his fellow U2 members pay tax on other sources of income in Ireland. In this case they're availing of a legal loophole to protect their wealth, as the super-rich tend to do. But the decision to move their music publishing out of the Irish tax net and into a safe haven puts them in the same bracket as Denis O'Brien. Remember him? He made around €300m from the sale of Esat and avoided capital gains tax by opportunistically taking up residency in Portugal. Outrageous behaviour, but completely within the law, thanks to the non-resident wheeze. It's tax avoidance, not tax evasion. Leaves a sour taste in your mouth, all the same, doesn't it?

I guess maybe if you're a superstar long enough, the rarefied air you breathe can blind you to what ordinary people consider acceptable. Clearly you're astute enough to buy the best possible financial expertise, Bono, but don't you also hire PR advice? If you do, you're not heeding it here.

Because opting out of paying tax on your royalties in Ireland at a time when the rest of us are facing into leaner times - dearer mortgage repayments, savage hikes to gas, oil and electric bills - is a bad call. Especially if you want us to listen when you talk about debt cancellation for developing countries. The moral high ground is looking a little shakier than it was this time last year, with your face attached to the Make Poverty History crusade.

Tax isn't money entirely down the drain, even if it sometimes feels that way looking at the wasteful use this Government has made of boomtime revenues. More to the point, paying tax along with us is part of what makes you one of us.

Go down the tax avoidance road and you may as well pack up your banners and slogans and prepare for the Mick Jagger phase of your career.

I'd call that a shameful waste of talent.

From today's Irish Independent leader section By Martina Devlin - link http://unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=36&si=1667774&issue_id=14472

protected template?
This article is a frequent target for vandalism... a look at the history shows that. Shouldn't we put a template here? --170.66.1.155 12:11, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

"And despite his campaiging for reduction in fuel emissions, along with the other members of U2 he purchased an Airbus A320 to fly them around the world on their latest tour." Ahahaha, I always knew those semi-environmentalists were donk heads with no substance. --AF1987 18:53, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Got a plane to fly around the world? Absolutely disgraceful.  They should have walked like everyone else does. Scandalous. 86.7.208.240 00:39, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Your attempt at sarcasm fails when we do see that the people that Bono are 'attempting' to help, must walk miles to achieve and gain basic necessities and living standards (water, medicine etc.) While Bono and his lads have just purchased themselves a private Air Jet to fly them around the world (possibly in grand luxury). With all the rhetoric that Bono puts out about world poverty, his personal actions (besides mouthful of words) has been sadly lacking in helping the people that he says he wants to help. Now, THAT is scandalous.
 * "mouthfull of words?" shows you do not know anything about his campaigning, and thus are not in a position to contribute. Do some research - then come back when you know something. --Merbabu 03:47, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Enlighten me. Does he really deserve as much praise as those on the front lines? Medecins Sans Frontieres, Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, and even Madonna has in comparison, done more for the African cause.

Bono is just rhetoric. What has he done besides words? If you are in such a position as to know what 'actual' contributions he has made for the cause. You tell me.

Conor Lenihan's remark removed
I removed the line about Conor Lenihan criticizing Bono since there appears to be no evidence for it. The only mentions in Google on blogs, etc, refer back to this article as evidence. The following Google search - "conor lenihan" bono (half-way| halfway) (tax | taxes) -wikipedia - produced 4 hits, none of which allude to such a remark.

--Paul Moloney 12:48, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Trivia
The trivia sections have been removed. Trivia sections are really only for info that doesn't fit into the article. And if it is interesting, but not important, then sorry, it doesn't belong. THe test is importance, not interest. Trivia = unimportant. I will incorporate what should go into the article, and remove the rest

For more detail see: Avoid_trivia_sections_in_articles

thanks --Merbabu 11:14, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Assume good faith Merbabu, your not the sole decider of what come on to this article, leave the trivia and your beieifs alone, Thank youChildishknack 13:33, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * As you will have noticed, I have removed the unimportant content, and the unsourced, and I have incorporated the useful (ie, notable and referenceable) content into the body of the article. We need to remember that these are intended to be encyclopedia entries, not pop mags.--Merbabu 13:43, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

what's in a name...lol...indeed
Sorry but is Bono's eldest son really named Elijah Bob Patricius Guggi Q? I suspect vandalism here, but I can't be sure as I'm not familiar with this celebrity's personal life. Rosa 14:47, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, if you look it up, it's true. Yank  sox  14:58, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Bono: Total Hypocrite
Besides the Criticism already listed in the article, more should be added. Obviously something should be mentioned about his immense personal wealth of which not even a miniscule percentage, he has deemed not to donate to ANY causes he champions.

Bono is all talk, no action.

Considering his personal failure to contribute to alleviating the financial worries of the poor people of the world while demanding that governments and other people take up the slack is just one area where Bono has fallen short.

Someone unlock and add this into Wikipedia please. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.178.56.41 (talk • contribs).
 * Wikipedia can't represent your point of view. oTHErONE (Contribs) 10:25, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Is it confirmed he gives no money? No, i didn't think so. --IanRitchie 05:35, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I get sick of hearing this BS. He devotes so much time and effort into Africa. Most wealthy don't even pay attention to it, yet they are not persecuted for lack of effort towards Africa. Because he tells people the real problems that are there (because he's been there and feels the need to act), he's the problem? I'll never understand it. It's not as if he hasn't donated money. He most certainly has. He just doesn't feel the need to brag about what he's done for it. He tries to get everyone involved. Phillies26 21:34, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Please refrain from stating your personal opinions about Bono on the talk page. As mentioned above:
 * "'This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Bono article. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.'"
 * Feel free to ask questions about the criticism section or request things be added, but please also remember the purpose of this talk page. Thanks! Chupper 18:30, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Making criticism a subsection
I have switched the section titled "Criticism" to be a subsection of humanitarian work. Why? Well to me it's quite simple - all of the criticism, and there is tons of it for some reason, has to do with his humanitarian work. It has nothing to do with the band or anything else. When reading the 'criticism' section almost everything seems to be criticizing and rebuking 'humanitarian work.' Therefore it's a subsection. Questions/comments? Chupper 05:32, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Seems OK --Merbabu 05:33, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Criticism Cleanup
Ok guys, this is getting really bad. The criticism section makes up 22% of the article. Wikipedia is NOT a soapbox! Because of this section this article is beginning to look like a joke. Quotes on his tax evasion are like listening to 6 year olds argue back and forth. "He doesn't pay his taxes." "He doesn't have to pay his taxes." "But he could be paying more taxes."

Love him or hate him, this section needs to be shortened. Folks, lets remember that the most powerful and meaningful statements are expressed clearly and in short statements. The section, currently, is making everyone look bad, whether your Pro-Bono (no pun intended) or Anti-Bono.

Now, if you guys want me to clean it up I will :). But I'm no expert on Bono's tax evasion ways.  I'll simply eliminate whatever the world doesn't care about and try to keep it at a NPOV.  I'd also probably make the section less than 10% of the article - like maybe 200 words? Chupper 05:45, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Good idea. I will help you out as you work. One small suggestion, re taxation "tax evasion" is illegal activity. He has done nothing illegal, rather he is involved in "tax minimisation" which any perfectly rational person does. regards --Merbabu 05:47, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Good point on the tax evasion thing there Merbabu. I agree, he hasn't done anything illegal.  Thanks for clearing that up.  I have a tendency to say the wrong things :). Chupper 06:04, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Tags

 * 1) I've changed the cleanup tag to a more specific 'sounds like a review' tag, which it does. See the banner links for more information.  As I said earlier, this article should not be a soapbox.  Remember that Wikipedia's policies state that minority opinions, especially those in extreme minority, do not, and sometimes should not even be talked about.  I'm not saying that's the case here, I'm just saying it needs to be discussed.
 * 2) The section does not present a NPOV. It's basically a Bono bash section.  Both POV need to be presented here.  So, I've added the tag until this gets resolved.
 * 3) Offtopic - Is it on topic to discuss how he is a board member of a parent company who's subsidiary makes a game who's plotline is the invasion of whatever? (See my brain is already forgetting what the hell we're talking about because it thinks we're off topic.)  This needs to be discussed.  Any one else's brain feeling like this?

Sorry for coming into the article here and throwing my words around all at once. I just feel this section is not in harmony with Wikipedia's policies at all. Don't get me wrong - whether he is a hypocrite or not, I really don't care. I do care, though, about the quality of this article. Chupper 06:03, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Moved here til it's cleaned up...
 * end of section Merbabu 05:01, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


 * No doubt many people will be busy over the holidays. If I have time I'll look at it once I'm done with finals. If not, it will have to wait until the holidays are over for me to work on it.  Chupper 04:12, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * OK. I've done the best I could.  Thanks to whoever threw the "weasel words" tag in that section. Boy, oh boy was it filled with it.  I had to removed a lot of it because it just read "and he said this, and he felt this way and they said this and he claimed this."
 * I think the new #1 priority should be adding in information about Bono & U2. This is, by far, most of Bono's exposure and this should probably be reflected in the article by its content.  I've added in a tag to expand it (now the only tag in the article Merbabu :) ). Chupper 05:36, 20 December 2006 (UTC)