Talk:Booi Aha

Untitled
如Chinese scholar Mo Dongyin (Chinese:莫东寅)在 Essays on Manchu History《满族史论丛》里提到包衣，认为包衣是家里的人的意思，也就是奴隶. 但是包衣在满族社会其实是一个特殊的阶层，他们附属于主人，有的操持服役， 但有的又与主人关系亲近，甚至自己也可以拥有奴仆. 在满族的政治逐渐发展下，包衣也被编入八旗之中，别立包衣三旗. 这代表了包衣正式成为清朝政治结构组成 的一部份，皇帝本身是主子，他把自己的包衣变成了在政府里做事的官员，一方面是替自己办事，一方面还可替国家办事. 因此包衣对皇帝虽然是自称为奴才，但是 他们在面对其它人时，就是政府组织里的一份子，他们虽是皇帝的奴才，但却是汉人的长官.
 * The above Chinese text has been translated into English.
 * Where? — LlywelynII  04:29, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

内务府三旗（Ma:booi ilan gusa)Three banners of Neiwufu
福格《听雨丛谈》：“内务府三旗分佐领、管领. 其管领下人是我朝发祥之初家臣；佐领下人是当时所制兵弁. ……庄头旗人，……或国初带地投充、或由兵丁拨充屯田，今皆归内务府会计司管辖，不列于佐领、管领之内. ”


 * 1) booi niru niru is 滿文 (Chinese:包衣佐領), Neiwufu Upper Three Banner's platoon leader of about 300 men.


 * 1) Booi guanlin (Chinese:包衣管領) the manager of booi doing all the domestic duties of Neiwufu.


 * 1) Booi amban is also a Manchu word, meaning high official, (Chinese:包衣大臣).


 * 1) Estate bannerman (Chinese:庄头旗人) are those renegade Chinese who joined the Jurchen, or original civilians-soldiers working in the fields. These people were all turned into booi aha, or field slaves.

内务府的组织渊源于满族社会的包衣（奴仆）制度，其主要人员分别由满洲八旗中的(upper three banners)上三旗（即 Border yellow(镶黄)、Plain yellow(正黄)、Plain white(正白旗）所属包衣组成. 最高长官为总管内务府大臣(Ma:dorgi baita icihiyara amban) (dorgi（内） baita（事务） icihiyara（办理的意思） amban（大臣）)， 正二品，由皇帝从满洲王公、内大臣、尚书、侍郎中特简，或从满洲侍卫、本府郎中、三院卿中升补. 凡皇帝家的衣、食、住、行等各种事务，都由Neiwufu (内务府)承办. 以 皇室家奴(home slaves of the royal court)--上三旗里的包衣人--来代替了(eunuch)太监的各项执事，故而清朝太监的数量仅二千人，不足明朝的十分之一，没有出现宦官专权的情况. 中央机构的职务即 “缺分”，分为宗室缺、满洲缺、蒙古缺、汉军缺、内务府包衣缺和汉缺. 康熙《大清会典》共载内阁、六部等13个中央机构中有品级和无品级额缺2082个， 大部为满洲和内务府包衣占有. 汉军和汉人的额缺325个，仅占15.6％.
 * Eh? — LlywelynII  04:29, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

王钟翰
在其《内务府世家考》中提到了包衣. 他认为：“自来民间流行看法，一提到包衣下贱、皇室家奴或自称(nucai)奴才，似乎凡隶属于内务府旗籍的人，都是(nupu)奴仆，低 人一等，是满族社会中的最下层. 其实不然，除隶属内务府三旗（镶黄旗、正黄旗与正白旗）中内管领下食口粮人的辛者库（满语－sin jeku），另当别论外，凡属内府三旗的成员，对皇帝一家来说，固然有一日主、百年奴的主奴隶属关系，但这种关系实际上也只能是和满、蒙、汉等内外文武大 臣对皇帝一样的君臣关系.

Most of the original booi were Han Chinese
但包衣的成分仍是以汉人居多，《啸亭杂录》里有载：“国初时，俘掠辽沈之民，悉为满臣奴隶. ”包衣虽然在一开始成分复杂，各种俘虏来的民族皆有，但因满洲 势力逐渐席卷东北，将东北的大量汉人也收归进去，因此汉人在包衣里占了极重的比例. 而包衣在满洲势力发展成八旗制度后，亦成立镶黄、正黄、正白三旗，即所 谓的内府三旗（booi ilan gusa,ilan是三的意思， gusa是旗的意思）. 福格《听雨丛谈》有云：“内三旗佐领下，有满洲，有旗鼓，无蒙古汉军. 其满洲与八旗源派相同，旗鼓多系左近长白山辽金旧部，有汉姓 之人，盖久家朔方者也. ”这三旗是归属于皇帝直接管理，皇帝就是他们的主子，至于亲王贝勒另有使唤的下五旗包衣. 但由于清朝入关后，有大量汉人投充和被掳 掠到各王公八旗下，成为他们的奴仆，是以，据史料推测，包衣里应该是占极大比例的汉人
 * But not all. — LlywelynII  04:29, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
 * According to 八旗通志, Manchu companies (满洲佐领) got the largest number in Booi system. On the other hand, many Chinese booi were out of banner in Qianlong's reign.--Šolon (talk) 14:17, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Are most of the Booi Han Chinese are sinicized Jurchen from Liaodong? Because I heard that sinicized Jurchen are put into Han banner so I wonder if the Han Chinese in bondservants are also sinicized Jurchen. ShanghaiWu (talk) 07:23, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

辛者库
“辛者库”是满语“辛者库特勒阿哈”的简称. “辛”为金斗，是满族流行的量器，每金斗约折合普通斗一斗八升. “者库”是粮谷的意思，意为‘管领下食口粮人’，即内务府管辖下的奴仆. 清朝入关后，是清代特有的机构. 犯罪旗人及其家属常罚入辛者库，专执贱役.

The title of this page
Hi Arilang: could you change the name of this page from "Slavery in seventeen century China" to "Slavery in seventeenth-century China" (the correct form)? On a side point, I'm very happy to see that you did not write this page in virulent anti-Manchu language. And the topic of Manchu bondservants definitely deserves a place on Wikipedia and in the history of slavery: thanks for creating this page! Cheers, Madalibi (talk) 10:29, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Article correction/expansion
This is actually a specific use, but for how the baoyi within the Banner ranks developed, there's a treatment here. — LlywelynII  04:29, 22 October 2011 (UTC)


 * This article messed up two different conceptions and need to rewrite anyways. Royal bondservants and banner slaves are two different type of status in Eight banner. If you guys can read Chinese, I recommend you to read my article Servants (包衣) and Banner slaves (旗下家奴) which are DYK on Chinese Wikipedia. By the way Elliott's book is never the best treatment. For a better one, see --Šolon (talk) 14:36, 23 December 2012 (UTC)


 * The article is messed up because it was written by someone with an anti Manchu agenda. I noted that the fact that the fact that another user had to openly congragulate that person for writing the article without openly insulting Manchus, it seemed extremely supicious, and sure enough, the article is written to present Manchus as the equivalent of slave masters in southern america before the civil war. Indeed, bondservants and ordinary banner slaves were different as noted in Mark C. Elliott's book.

http://books.google.com/books?id=_qtgoTIAiKUC&pg=PA51#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=_qtgoTIAiKUC&pg=PA83#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=NUTE8V-WhwoC&pg=PA15#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=NUTE8V-WhwoC&pg=PA14#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=tgq1miGno-4C&pg=PA63#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=tgq1miGno-4C&pg=PA109#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=tgq1miGno-4C&pg=PA142#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Wn4iv_RJv8oC&pg=PA140#v=onepage&q&f=false

Rajmaan (talk) 02:52, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

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I found plagiarism

 * Booi Aha (Manchu: ᠪᠣᠣᡳ ᠨᡳᠶᠠᠯᠮᠠ (booi niyalma) for male, ᠪᠣᠣᡳ ᡥᡝᡥᡝ (booi hehe) for female; Chinese transliteration: 包衣阿哈) is a Manchu word literally meaning "household person", referring to hereditarily servile people in 17th-century Qing China.

This section of the information is from Dynastic China: An Elementary History by Tan Koon San. I will replace it with other ways to convey this information within a month. And to be more accurate, the title of the article should be Booi (Qing dynasty) due to how the terminology is quite more complicated than I expect. This article is about some people within the banners and this article should reflect the situations well. Komitsuki (talk) 12:47, 25 September 2023 (UTC)