Talk:Book censorship in the United States/Archive 1

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Proposed change

Removed reference to the recent removal of Dr. Seuss books from the company catalogue. This was not, by any reasonable definition of the term, any form of censorship. Suggesting is is is propaganda and disinformation, which does not belong on Wikipedia. There was no government involvement in the decision, which the company states was based on "Months of discussion with librarians and scholars," and was a purely business decision to remove books which no longer reflect the character and nature of the books of Theodore Geisel. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stevegray (talk • contribs) 14:00, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

Re-removed this section, as the reversion of the removal was justified as the removal being unexplained (no edit summary). This section was a poor example of book censorship in the US in addition to the reasons given above, as (1) publication of the books ceased internationally and (2) many book carriers intend to hold onto their books (inc. the Chicago Public Library mentioned in the removed section). Arecee (talk) 08:05, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Proposed Changes Jmross8 (talk) 21:54, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

The first two sentences in the third paragraph are choppy and can be combined into a better flowing sentence. Also, the third paragraph could be seen as being biased, as it only mentions groups in favor of reducing banned books.

The "After 1620" section of the "Beginnings of book censorship in America" is worded in a confusing way and almost exact to the words on the page it is cited from. The following section makes a very large assumption about what the first banned book was and there is no citation.

In the "Reasons for censorship" section, "Parenting" and "Security" sections can be removed because they are not primary nor significant reasons as to why books get banned. The following section "More than one reason" can be deleted all together as it is not crucial information and can be simply stated in one sentence; "Some books can be banned for more than one reason, such as "...."."

The "Voices of Banned Authors" section could instead be "Resistance against Banned Books".

Lastly, the list of other banned books can be structured better and feature more prominent and well known books.

1. “Banned Books.” Newseum Institute, www.newseuminstitute.org/first-amendment-center/topics/freedom-of-speech-2/libraries-first-amendment-overview/banned-books/.

2. “Top 100 Banned/Challenged Books: 2000-2009.” The American Library Association, 18 July 2017, www.ala.org/advocacy/bbooks/top-100-bannedchallenged-books-2000-2009.

3. “List of Book-Burning Incidents.” Wikipedia, Wikimedia Foundation, 14 Apr. 2018, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_book-burning_incidents#cite_ref-102. Jmross8 (talk) 22:05, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Jmross8 (talk) 21:54, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

'Suggestions

First sentence is very biased

Who considers “the suppression of books” objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or inconvenient (That is not what this says, it says they are suppressed because of these reasons)

Third sentence no citation provided

Reasons for Censorship “citation after first sentence”

Expand on Reasons for censorship Give more of a definition to the three main reasons for censorship

List of censored books is unnecessary and doesn’t have an information that is insightful or helpful at all

Specific cases: Need to provide both sides of the book censorship and much more context and be more consistent with citing

Evaluating the article: Warning banner at the top signals that there are clear issues in this article, including content gaps, insufficient information to help people who are newcomers to the topic, biased language, missing citations for information that is clearly not original content.

Suggestions for edits of this article: Reasons for Censorship section could include analyses from Brandt, Miller, etc., about why books are censored and how children are perceived.

In the introduction, want to include definitions that differ the meanings of "censorship", "challenging", and "banning" of books.

Discuss and define who the censors of many books in specific cases are, but also more generally.

Create a section about "Activism against Censorship" and discuss the ALA, etc. Shirshorn (talk) 17:29, 2 November 2016 (UTC)Shirshorn

First sentence of article shows extreme bias. Second sentence is grammatically incorrect. Re-organize intro section to better show neutral explanations of what book censorship is.

Reason for censorship section should be expanded and definitions more clear. Expanded, more structured book censorship list. Use examples of books from class to include in the "specific examples" section. (Catcher in the Rye example is well written and a well known controversy, while Mummy Laid an Egg is not well known and pretty ineffectual to informing the reader.

Citations needed for last seven examples in "Specific Examples" section. Add links to graphs, lists, etc. to ALA as a way to visually inform the reader to examples of book censorship. Chrismulterer (talk) 17:39, 2 November 2016 (UTC)Chrismulterer

Changes that I want to make (shirshorn) -Find a court case (Supreme Court, if possible), which details the legality of censorship in the United States to be added to the "background" section. -Add a new section with statistics and numbers of book challenges across the country; maybe included in the list of books or adapted to include this? (Need to think of a title for the new section, if a completely new one should be created). -Choose 5-10 good examples of books that are consistently censored. Give the reasons for challenges, specific examples of the challenges, and how the challenges have been met. A good example could include Catcher in the Rye. -In the "Reasons for Censorship" section, include reasons from both the perpetrators of censorship, as well as it's opposition, to remain neutral throughout the article. (Consult more conservative information sources and their reviews on a book being censored). -Update the list of the books that have been censored and include the criteria that is decided upon on how these books were compiled, ex) how often they are censored, how recently, etc.

What do others think about focusing on a few books and highlighting the controversies they have faced? It feels slightly limiting, but also helpful in the sense that the topic is so broad, and this may help to give some guidance and concrete examples to the readers about how censorship plays out and its benefits or drawbacks... Shirshorn (talk) 19:41, 12 November 2016 (UTC)shirshorn

Shirshorn (talk) 19:42, 12 November 2016 (UTC)shirshorn

DylanFine7777777- Changes to the article I would give more background on the history of book censorship. This topic dates back to pre-revolutionary war America, so I would just mentioned how this subject was originally brought up. This will allow the reader to observe and compare cases of the distant past to current cases. I would go into much more detail on the specific cases. You do a pretty good job with "Catcher in the Rye" but once again avoid harsh language. You need to give more context than merely stating a book appeared on so and so's list. Here are some sources that I think will aid this article.

Each specific case should be about a paragraph long, not a few sentences. I think it would be more helpful to the reader if the article focused more on the reasons for book censorship rather than specific cases. I also think the list of censored books is unnecessary as this list will need to updated constantly and currently does not list all of the censored books in American History. Here are some sources that I think should help. 1. Boyer, Paul S. “Boston Book Censorship in the Twenties.” American Quarterly, vol. 15, no. 1, 1963, pp. 3–24. www.jstor.org/stable/2710264.

2. Boyer, Paul S. “Gilded-Age Consensus, Repressive Campaigns, and Gradual Liberalization: The Shifting Rhythms of Book Censorship.” A History of the Book in America: Volume 4: Print in Motion: The Expansion of Publishing and Reading in the United States, 1880-1940, Edited by Carl F. Kaestle and Janice A. Radway, University of North Carolina Press, 2009, pp. 276–298, www.jstor.org/stable/10.5149/9781469625829_kaestle.21.

3. Detty, Elizabeth W. The Legal Aspects of Censorship of Public School Library And Instructional Materials, The University of North Carolina at Greensboro, Ann Arbor: ProQuest Dissertations Publishing, 1981.

4. Foerstel, Herbert N. Banned in the U.S.A.: A Reference Guide to Book Censorship in Schools and Public Libraries. Westport, CT: Greenwood, 1994.

5. Judith, and Haydel Judith. "Right of School Boards to Ban Books." The Encyclopedia of Civil Liberties in America, edited by Schultz, David and John R. Vile, Routledge, 2005. Credo Reference, https://proxy.library.georgetown.edu/login?url=http://search.credoreference.com.proxy.library.georgetown.edu/content/entry/sharpecla/right_of_school_boards_to_ban_books/0. Accessed 13 Nov 2016.

6. Tarr, C. A. ""Censorship in Children's Literature", Para.doxa: Studies in World Literary Genres 2.3-4 (1996), and: What Johnny Shouldn't Read: Textbook Censorship in America (review)." The Lion and the Unicorn, vol. 22 no. 2, 1998, pp. 244-250. Project MUSE, doi:10.1353/uni.1998.0021.

Chrismulterer (talk) 02:38, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

kittencrew- This article is at a bare bones state, having barly enough information to even make it an article. I would recommend that it has a larger introduction section, in which talks about different places a book can be banned, who is able to ban books, and introduces some of the controversy about banning books. Next I would recommend that addition of a history section outlining the origins of book banning in the United States and some of the thoughts about it throughout history. Next I would remove the section that discusses titles of banned books, but provides no other details. This section, would never be adequate or would be entirely too long. Lastly I would beef up the list of books that were challenged and some of the history behind those cases. I like the idea and perhaps focusing on the top ten banned books of all times might be a help to provide a good overview without diving into all books that were ever challenged. Also it is important to discuss why some of the books listed under the cases section were banned. These are a few sources (newspaper articles and scholarly articles) that I think might be of use when expanding this article:

Kittencrew (talk) 04:24, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

I think that a way to decide which books to include on the specific cases and which ones we would go into depth discussing could be the books that are most frequently banned in the past 3 decades. This would focus our research but also show how the types of books that get censored tends to change over time and the causes for the censorship change as well. Shirshorn (talk) 15:18, 16 November 2016 (UTC)shirshorn

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Possible References
Added section on reasons for censorship Chrismulterer (talk) 18:19, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

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Theodore Dreiser
Theodore Dreiser should be included in this article. See for example The "Genius". Rwood128 (talk) 21:48, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Garbled sentence
The following doesn't make sense:


 * Book censorship in the United States began in the mid-nineteenth century. One of the first publicized cases in America? was the banning of Charles Darwin’s On the Origin of Species in Trinity College, Cambridge, England. This work contains Darwin’s theory of evolution and was banned in other [some?] parts of America, notably including Tennessee, in the early twentieth century.

Rwood128 (talk) 22:54, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

What about the nineteenth century?
The article states "Book censorship in the United States began in the mid-nineteenth century" which seems obvious (or earlier?) but doesn't give examples. Was Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species, for example, banned in the nineteenth century?–see my comment above about the garbled sentence. Rwood128 (talk) 11:38, 29 October 2017 (UTC) Re Darwin: I believe that he is still banned in some American schools. Rwood128 (talk) 12:24, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Well-known books that have been censored
Perhaps the sub-headings for the above section, and "Additional cases," should be removed and these sections' length reduced? Some of the detail belongs more on the main page for the novel. Rwood128 (talk) 13:29, 29 October 2017 (UTC)


 * It might help tighten the organization and give the article more focus to incorporate what is included in these sections on novels elsewhere, for example, under "School boards". Again it seems to me that there is an excess of detail here. Rwood128 (talk) 16:10, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Proposed revisions to article
Intro: add why it is a problem in the US, summary of whole page,

History of book banning in the US, What is the very first banned book?

Link to other books that had been banned in the US. (More than one reason)

Who is banning and why? Difference between public libraries and schools.

More about ALA. What are they trying to do?

Works Cited

Brubaker, Jana. "Book Banning." Culture Wars in America: An Encyclopedia of Issues, Viewpoints, and Voices. Eds. Roger Chapman and James Ciment. London, UK: Routledge, 2013. Web

Foerstel, Herbert N. Banned in the U.S.A. a Reference Guide to Book Censorship in Schools and Public Libraries. Westport, Conn. : Greenwood Press,Web.

Lesesne, Teri S., and Rosemary Chance. Hit List for Young Adults : Frequently Challenged Books. Chicago: ALA Editions, 2001. Web.

Miller, Cynthia. "Censorship." Culture Wars in America: An Encyclopedia of Issues, Viewpoints, and Voices. Eds. Roger Chapman and James Ciment. London, UK: Routledge, 2013. Web. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moet-matsu (talk • contribs) 01:19, 20 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Moet-matsu, you need to explain the above and how these suggestions relate to the current article. Are you proposing that the article be reduced to these four main headings? If so why? Rwood128 (talk) 17:53, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Overall organization
The overall structure of this article lacks good focus because it is organized around different principles: "History" and "Reasons for censorship". I'm probably guilty of creating this problem when I began adding early examples and will try to fix it. Rwood128 (talk) 16:32, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

These different sections, however, create multiple aspects to look at book censorship from. This article allows you to read about the history behind book censorship, get explanations for its many different reasons, such as social, political, sexual, parenting, and religious reasons. You also get to read about a few books that have been banned and the reasons for their banning. However, the article could definitely use some more "Examples of "Banned" Books", more examples of "Voices of Banned Authors", and more examples of books on the "List of Other Banned Books". Gabriellam19 (talk) 16:54, 29 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Actually there was an "Origins" section which then became "History". Rwood128 (talk) 16:44, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
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scope of censorship
The article generally speaks of censorship as binary, that a book is banned or not banned. In many cases, it is more accurate and helpful to note that a book was censored for a younger audience. Many books are not assigned to younger readers because of higher vocabulary, intellectual rigor, or complex themes. This is not seen as censorship and it is anticipated that as students mature they will be able to understand and interact with more and more challenging books. Similarly, people object to younger children reading certain books, but not for older audiences. The term "censorship" is being used too broadly. Pete unseth (talk) 17:17, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Dalton Trumbo
I think that the writings of Dalton Trumbo should be considered for citation in this article, especially Johnny Got His Gun. Pete unseth (talk) 16:07, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Amazon
Amazon controls at least 50 percent of the US book market (possibly more). Amazon's banning of certain books, for sale by or to anyone, is arguably more significant than decisions by individual school districts to restrict certain books' availability to children.

Amazon market share: https://publishingperspectives.com/2020/08/us-publishers-authors-booksellers-call-out-amazons-concentrated-power-in-the-book-market/

Amazon bans Joseph Nicolosi https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/amazon-removes-controversial-books-father-conversion-therapy-n1026446

Amazon bans Ryan T. Anderson from Amazon.com, Kindle, Audible and ABEBooks https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/02/amazon-kneels-before-the-mob/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.110.241.73 (talk) 23:20, 1 March 2021 (UTC)


 * I agree with the previous post, that Amazon's ideologicallly-driven decisions to reject certain books is a powerful form of denying people access to certain books in today's marketing world. Pete unseth (talk) 16:22, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

People have probably seen this
Censorship battles’ new frontier: Your public library Doug Weller  talk 19:16, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Need to specify who banned a book
Too often in the article we read that a book was banned, but we are not told who banned it. The Hunger Games was just added to the list of banned books, but there is no explanation of who banned it or where. It makes a huge difference to know if it was banned by an elementary school or a high school. How many libraries banned it, one or 1,000? Simply saying a book is "banned" is so incomplete that it is useless. Pete unseth (talk) 14:15, 26 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Absolutely. One tiny library banning a book is too trivial. A school board for instance is probably not, nor is anything else where there was enough controversy to be discussed in a few reliable sources. Doug Weller  talk 15:21, 26 April 2022 (UTC)