Talk:Booker T. Washington/Archive 1

Criticisms of Washington
This page could use a more balanced perspective on Washington. He was harshly criticized by educated blacks of his time period such as W.E.B. Du Bois. I edited the opening summary to touch on this issue but more work needs to be done. Ideally a section outlining common criticisms of Washington's politics. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.222.35.66 (talk) 11:23, 31 January 2007 (UTC).
 * The great majority of educated blacks supported Washington, as did DuBois at first. The attacks on BTW became serious long after his death. Rjensen 12:36, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That is absolutely not the case. Originally there was little open opposition to Washington because his political power made it a death sentence to oppose him. 134.10.176.178 06:43, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
 * 134.10.176.178 is right (although "death sentence" is obviously hyperbole). DuBois did support Washington early, but he criticized Washington in The Souls of Black Folk (1903). According to the Africana encyclopedia, the publication of Souls "allowed critics to be more open over the next few years." Africana also identifies the founding of the NAACP (1909) as "the greatest threat" to Washington's power. "'Washington tried at first to stifle the group; failing that, he sought a rapprochement. As that, too, failed, increasing numbers of [B]lacks gravitated to the NAACP, and Washington's base of power began to weaken.'"That's hardly "long after his death."
 * Don't get me wrong. Washington was the most important African-American leader of his time, and his positive influence is underestimated by many of us who grew up after the ascendancy of DuBois and his philosophy. (If Washington is remembered at all, he often is mis-represented as an "Uncle Tom.") But a balanced account of Washington's life should include a fair discussion of his critics, together with an explanation of his views. Malik Shabazz 07:31, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I came to this article expecting it to be tilted the other way, given the left-leaning slant of many WP articles. I think there should be some more mention of the criticisms. Steve Dufour 14:40, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Some thoughts on additions after reading Up From Slavery
I just finished his fascinating autobiography, "Up From Slavery." There is much missing in the summary, but then, it is intended to be a summary. I recommend anyone who wants to know more about him read it. It is a rather quick and easy read, and besides, what better way to understand the man than to hear him tell his own story.

I would like to know how it was determined he was born April 5, 1856. The very first thing he writes in his book is, "I was born a slave on a plantation in Franklin County, Virginia. I am not quite sure of the exact place or exact date of my birth, but at any rate I suspect I must have been born somewhere and at some time.  As nearly as I have been able to learn, I was born near a cross-roads post-office called Hale's Ford, and the year was 1858 or 1859.  I do not know the month or the day."

I thought it would be important to note ALL his wives and children. His three wives were Fannie N. Smith, Olivia A. Davidson, and Margaret J. Murray. Fannie was from Malden, West Virginia, they married in the summer of 1882, they had Portia M., and Fannie passed away in May of 1884.

He married Olivia in 1885, they had Booker Taliaferro and Ernest Davidson, and she died in 1889. Olivia was born in Ohio, spent time teaching in Mississippi and Tennessee, and received her education at Hampton University and the Massachusetts State Normal School at Framingham. They met at Tuskegee when she came there to teach.

Margaret was from Mississippi, a graduate of Fisk University, and they married in 1893. Booker gives all three women enormous credit for their work at Tuskegee and is emphatic he would not have been successful without them. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.82.187.119 (talk • contribs).


 * I just added a new (and long-needed IMHO) section on Family, which incorporates much of the above. Mark in Historic Triangle of Virginia Vaoverland 10:00, 30 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I also would like to know about the birth date. It seems to me that if Booker T. Washington didn't know his own birth date, nobody else could have either.  Does anyone know the specific source for this exact birth date?  I thought at first it was the date chosen to be his arbitrary birthdate, but the year is way off from what he states in Up From Slavery.  - Ron (Minnesota, USA)


 * According to some quick research, b. April 5, 1856 d. November 14, 1915. Vaoverland 00:32, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Date of death from newspaper obituary: New York Times Epicidiot 07:02, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * In "Up From Slavery," addressing how his date of birth was determined, if you look at the end of the sentence, there is a little 1 as a reference. The 1 says: Actually 1856, according to the best evidence available. Louis R. Harlan, Booker T. Washington: The Making of a Black Leader, 1856-1901 (New York, 1972),3. Maybe a little research of that book will show how it was determined.--Relyk 04:24, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Images
Someone posted a photo here (not me) of good old Booker T. but Wikipedia Administrator Zoe decided to delete it without reason., I have put a new one here. User:Black Widow


 * Black Widow I still wonder how can you find so much "public domain" images.


 * If there are so much PD image available this would really great for the enhancement of Wikipedia. Please explain what is your interpretation of public domain to see if some serious jurist would agree instead of accusing us to be a "mafia". Ericd 13:25 Apr 15, 2003 (UTC)
 * any photo published before 1923 is PD and Washington died before the. Rjensen 04:28, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Henry H. Rogers
I have been researching and writing on Henry H. Rogers and have contributed related content to this article. I feel that the article lacks needed information about how Dr. Washington progressed from his education at Hampton University to become a famous person. I also ran across some information about BTW's involvement with Giles Jackson of Richmond, who was apparently of a similar mindset that he could accomplish more net gain for black people by maintaining an openly cordial relationship with whites while working behind the scenes to fight discrimination and related problems. I lack the information to do a good job on improving this section of the BTW WP article, and I hope someone else will do so. Vaoverland 01:31, Dec 28, 2004 (UTC)

Tuskegee section
Is it just me, or does it seem like this section talks little or none about his actual work at Tuskegee? Does anyone have any information about it, and could contribute some? This section has more to do with his private life than his work at Tuskegee.--ViolinGirl 13:57, 4 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree,


 * this article tells nothing of what he actually did. I am a student trying to do a report for school and found this website. But really, it shouldn't be on the list! It shows nothing about his work or what he taught. It tells nothing of the schools that he founded and the people he worked with. I don't need to know about his privite life or anything that the article actually tells you other than his birth and death. But i could find that anywhere! &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.100.147.157 (talk &bull; contribs).


 * I must agree as well. B.T.W. remains an important role model for african american students interested in science and engineering.  It deserves mention (and should deserve as much space as was devoted to his "politics"). &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.159.240.221 (talk &bull; contribs).

Merge
Someone created this article. It should be merged here, I'm not sure how much difference there is. Jdcooper 02:27, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * That was a test article on my user page. It's been deleted. | QzDaddy 02:29, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Schools
To stem a thousand school references, I've removed the following from the article:


 * ...including the Dallas Independent School District's Booker T. Washington High School for the Performing and Visual Arts and Booker T. Washington Magnet High School in Montgomery, Alabama as well as Booker T. Washington High School in Pensacola, FL, Booker T. Washington High School in Memphis, TN, and Booker T. Washington High School for Egineering in Houston, TX.

jareha 05:20, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

coal miner?
I have removed a recent edit which stated that Booker worked as a coal miner in West Virginia when he was there from 1865-1872. This was a period before the coal mines became very active, and I can find no source to support this. Vaoverland 04:25, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
 * It's true: "Young Booker was put to work packing salt from a nearby mine and later did even harder work in a coal mine."

from Citation: William F. Mugleston. "Washington, Booker T."; http://www.anb.org/articles/15/15-00737.html; American National Biography Online Feb. 2000. Rjensen 06:07, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I have also researched and found a second source as well. He worked in a drift mine (into a hillside-type of coal seam). I will revise the article to reflect this. My apologies to the anonymous editor I reverted. Mark in Historic Triangle of Virginia Vaoverland 18:00, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

matching funds
I have restored some text about fund-raising which was deleted by another editor, gutting the section down to a single paragraph. I find this part especially interesting and it includes an explanation an early the use of concept of matching funds. Vaoverland 10:37, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Booker T. Washington
It is my honest opinion that Booker was one of America's greatest black leaders to ever have been born.


 * He was never born. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.36.105.9 (talk) 05:38, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

He was not black. 216.229.196.116 14:05, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

What was he? Jasper23 02:37, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

He was half-black. Thus mulatto. 70.144.194.187 03:14, 14 October 2006 (UTC) Most Blacks have some white blood. By your definition, virtually no African Americans would be considered Black! Booker T. Washington was definitely Black, with some white heritage.


 * Gimme a break. He was one of the greatest Americans of any race, but he identified himself as black and as a spokesman for other blacks.  He was black in the sense that the word is used in the United States. 67.173.10.34 (talk) 08:20, 16 August 2010 (UTC)Larry Siegel

Autobiographical Works
This article has several references to the book Up From Slavery as Booker T. Washington's "autobiography." But there is a more comprehensive autobiography of his entitled The Story of My Life and Work. Another book of Washington's was My Larger Education: Chapters from My Experience. Floridasand 08:01, 2 June 2006 (UTC) Floridasand

Is this sentence written correctly?
Rogers encouraged the program with matching funds requirements so the recipients would have a stake in knowing that they were helping themselves through their own hard work and sacrifice.

I included the word 'the' but after reading it again in context I'm not certain this is what the orginal writer intended.

How to fix Vandalism
Could someone please fix the first paragraph of the Booker T. Washington page? I would, but I can't get to it through the edit function. Someone has vandalized it. Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.176.151.7 (talk) 00:23, 23 January 2007 (UTC).

Honors and Memorials
Could somebody who is more knowledgeable than I am fix this sentence:

"Robert Russa Moton, head of Tuskegee University after Booker T. Washington's death, had two African Americans aviators do an air tour, and afterward the plane was christened the Booker T. Washington."

The sentence is 100% confusing.

Was Moton Washington's immediate successor at Tuskeegee? The sentence seems to say so.

When and why did Moton have the airshow? Probably not in 1915, when Washington died and aviation was still in its infancy. Was it in 1956, on the 100th anniversary of Washington's birth? (That's just a guess.) Why not say so. Malik Shabazz 09:44, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

That is a very confusing sentence. This is how I would put it:

"Russa Moton, who was the head of Tuskegee University after B. T Washington died, sent two African American aviators to do an air tour, and when they completed their tour they honourably named the plane the 'Booker T. Washington'." I hope that helps!:)--KLM (talk) 04:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)Atieka

The lead section needs improvement
IMHO, the lead section needs improvement. I see two major problems.

1. White vs black - Recent changes have resulted in the words "white" and "black" used a total of 15 times in just the lead section. This doesn't even count additional use of the the word African American. The overemphasis on racial labels is way out of balance for WP:NPOV standards.

2. Lead has been getting longer recently, and it no longer flows chronologically through his life as it once did. The recent growth seems largely due to redundant edits. (i.e., the recent additions in the first paragraph of the lead are redundant with the content that follows: in simpler terms, although the wording is different, we say the same things twice).

BOTTOM LINE: I think we can improve the lead.

In the better large WP articles I have worked with:

1. The lead may summarize details which are covered again (in usually greater detail) in sections which follow.

2. We generally do not use the lead as the primary source of details which are not also presented in additional sections.

Thoughts, comments, suggestions anyone?
 * Mark in Historic Triangle of VirginiaVaoverland 00:11, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

For another major article I help maintain, which had similar problems with the lead, I posted a working copy on the talk page and then suggested we use the space following for suggested revisions, and have a chance for discussion, rather than doing it on the article's own page. This way, it won't keep changing while we (any sincere editors who wish to participate) briefly attend to improving the lead through an informal WP collaboration here on the talk page. Let's take a whack at it, folks.
 * Mark in Historic Triangle of Virginia, Vaoverland 03:25, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Following is the working copy lead section before attempting as discussed above. Please do not change it. Instead, post any revised versions you may suggest below.
 * begin text copy

Booker Taliaferro Washington (April 5, 1856, – November 14, 1915) was an American political leader, educator and author. He was the dominant figure in the African American community in the United States from 1890 to 1915. Representing the last generation of black leaders born in slavery, and speaking for those blacks who had remained in the New South in an uneasy modus vivendi with the white southerners, Washington was able throughout the final 25 years of his life to maintain his standing as the black leader because of the sponsorship of powerful whites, substantial support within the black community, his ability to raise educational funds from both groups, and his skillful accommodation to the social realities of the age of segregation.

Washington was born into slavery to a white father, and a slave mother in a rural area in southwestern Virginia. After emancipation, he worked in West Virginia in a variety of manual labor jobs before making his way to Hampton Roads seeking an education. He worked his way through Hampton Normal and Agricultural Institute (now Hampton University) and attended college at Wayland Seminary. After returning to Hampton as a teacher, in 1881 he was named as the first leader of the new Tuskegee Institute in Alabama.

Washington received national prominence for his Atlanta Address of 1895, attracting the attention of politicians and the public as a popular spokesperson for African American citizens. Washington built a nationwide network of supporters in many black communities, with black ministers, educators, and businessmen composing his core supporters. Washington played a dominant role in black politics, winning wide support in the black community and among more liberal whites (especially rich northern whites). He gained access to top national leaders in politics, philanthropy and education. Northern critics called it the "Tuskegee Machine." Washington was criticized by the leaders of the new NAACP, especially W.E.B. DuBois, who demanded a harder line on civil rights protests. Washington replied that confrontation would lead to disaster for the outnumbered blacks, and that cooperation with supportive whites was the only way to overcome pervasive racism in the long run. Some of his civil rights work was secret, such as funding court cases.

Washington's efforts included cooperating with white people and enlisting the support of wealthy philanthropists, which helped raise funds to establish and operate thousands of small community schools and institutions of higher education for the betterment of blacks throughout the South, work which continued for many years after his death. In addition to the substantial contributions in the field of education, Dr. Washington did much to improve the overall friendship and working relationship between the races in the United States. His autobiography, Up From Slavery, first published in 1901, is still widely read today.
 * end text copy


 * Revision possibility draft(s) will follow:

Booker Taliaferro Washington (April 5, 1856, – November 14, 1915) was an American educator, political leader, and author.
 * DRAFT 1, begin text

He was born into slavery to a white father and a slave mother on a rural farm in southwestern Virginia. After the slaves were freed there in 1865, he worked in West Virginia in a variety of manual labor jobs for several years before making his way to Hampton Roads seeking an education. He worked his way through the school which is now Hampton University and attended college at Wayland Seminary. After returning to Hampton as a teacher, upon recommendation of Hampton's president, Sam Armstrong, he was named in 1881 as the first leader of the new normal school which became Tuskegee University in Alabama. Washington became widely-viewed as the most dominant figure in the African American community in the entire United States from 1890 to 1915, especially after he achieved prominence for his Atlanta Address of 1895. To many politicians and the black and white public in general, he was seen as a popular spokesperson for African American citizens. Representing the last generation of black leaders born into slavery, he was considered credible when speaking publicly and seeking educational improvements for those freedmen who had remained in the New South in an uneasy modus vivendi with the white southerners.

Throughout the final 20 years of his life, he maintained this standing through a nationwide network of core supporters in many communities, including educators, ministers, and businessmen, especially those who were black and/or liberal-thinking on social and educational issues. He gained access to top national leaders in politics, philanthropy and education, and was awarded honorary degrees including a doctorate. Critics called his network of supporters the "Tuskegee Machine."

Dr. Washington was criticized by the leaders of the new NAACP, which was formed in 1909, especially W.E.B. DuBois, who demanded a harder line on civil rights protests. Washington, who had been labeled "an accommodator", replied that confrontation would lead to disaster for the outnumbered blacks, and that cooperation with supportive whites was the only way to overcome pervasive racism in the long run. However, while he did some aggressive civil rights work secretively, such as funding court cases,. in general, he seemed to truly believe in skillful accommodation to many of the social realities of the age of segregation. . While accepting current realities, he also clearly had his eyes on a better future and knew education was a major tool to accomplish it.

His philosophy and tireless work on education issues helped him enlist both the moral and substantial financial support of many philanthropists. He became friends with such self-made men from modest beginnings as Standard Oil magnate Henry Huttleston Rogers and Sears, Roebuck and Company Chairman Julius Rosenwald. At his instigation, they and other wealthy men and women funded his causes, supporting institutions of higher education such as Hampton and Tuskegee, each originally founded to produce teachers who had often gone back to work in their local communities. Through provision of millions of dollars and matching funds programs, they stimulated local community contributions (black and white) to eventually establish and operate over 5,000 small community schools for the betterment of blacks throughout the South in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The schools were a source of much local community pride and were of priceless value to African-American families during those troubled times in public education. This work was a major part of his legacy and was continued and expanded for many years after his death.

In addition to his substantial contributions in the field of education, Dr. Washington did much to improve the overall friendship and working relationship between the races in the United States. His autobiography, Up From Slavery, first published in 1901, is still widely read today. DRAFT 1 end text


 * OK, comments, suggestion, etc.? Personally, I think his biggest significance was education, and that he considered that his most important life's work, not race relations per se. Perhaps he could foresee that the Constitution would lead others to improve those things more than he could. I have read his papers. The guy worked tirelessly, but most of his time was spent on education-related work, and that is where he ended up accomplishing the most IMHO. But, with that said, this needs to be NPOV, so do other editors and our facts sources agree with what I said? That's what should be our criteria.
 * Mark in Historic Triangle of Virginia Vaoverland 03:25, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Having recieved no responses, I am going to deploy the revision above via edit to the article. Vaoverland 20:02, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The lead still seems way too long to me. On first glance, the article seems like a stub, then after scrolling a bit you finally find the table of contents. Sorry I can't think of any more constructive suggestions than "Incorporate most of the lead into the body."Matt Thorn (talk) 15:24, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

User Comments
The article i read today on Booker t. Washington was a fascanting article because it went staright to the point and it told you alot of information on the person at hand. i would gladly tell anybody if you need information to come and visit this website because it gives you alot of information that you need about anybody not just Booker t. Washington because i have used this websiye on many other projects for my classes and i have did very well on them because of this website so i highly reccomend using this site.'''

{[{[{[{[{[{[Lauren}}}]}]}]}]}


 * Thank you, Lauren. A lot of people have worked over years to make this article better. And, many of us intend to keep working on it. Such comments energize a lot of us, also. Best wishes.
 * Mark in Historic Triangle of Virginia, Vaoverland 17:57, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

did he start a school for black children

Meaning unclear
"Through his own personal experience, he knew that good educations were a major and powerful tool for individuals to collectively accomplish that."

Is this sentence trying to say that Washington realized that the collective education of black people would be a major accomplishment? This sentence is extremely awkward.

Wonderashe 04:09, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Question: he did to help African-Americans and slavery
To whom it may concern: I have a question. I have been reading many of the articles in this website about Booker T. Washington, but I am having trouble finding out what he did to help African-Americans and slavery. I need information soon. Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.215.28.33 (talk) 04:29, 23 February 2007 (UTC).


 * Our mission with Wikipedia is to provide a fact-based WP:NPOV balanced article. In the current version online, we have included both praise and criticism of Dr. Washington. You learn a lot working for years on an article like this. However, I am just one of thousands of WP editors, so the following is my personal understanding only. I will try to summarize.


 * 1. Booker T. Washington was a player during a comparatively short period of time of a much longer and continuing situation. You have to view his life in that context.


 * 2. Young Booker was just a child when slavery was abolished in the United States, so he really had no role in making that happen. That entire process is another long and complicated story, but the 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution in late 1865 was the final action to make it permanent nationwide.


 * 3. Unquestionably, final resolution of freedom from the institution of legalized slavery was a breakthrough in 1865 for the people we today call African Americans. However, they still faced (and many continue to face in 2007) obstacles of many types in participating in the American dream ideals: "All men [and women] are created equal" and the right to "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness".


 * 4. Among the obstacles which come to mind are individual prejudice, often the result of mere ignorance and/or learned from parents and social observation. As humans, we naturally fear the strange and unknown. By getting to know individuals of other ethnic heritage and/or learning about them, we have less of that natural fear. I am 55 years old. Under relaxed social settings in the era I grew up, many of us have made friends of individuals our parents would not have had contact with at all in an age of segregation. In his case, I think Booker was very lucky as a teenage to go to work in the home of Viola Ruffner, where they got to know each other and learned from each other.


 * 5. In Booker's era, there were big problems with legalized discrimination (i.e. Jim Crow laws and racial segregation), the longstanding lack of education at all (i.e. Virginia's laws after 1831 which prohibited teaching slaves to read, and lack of resources and schools after 1865), and even later, the inferior educations offered blacks under separate but equal policies.


 * 6. Booker had apparently learned at a personal level that practical approaches paid off with practical results. This was true as Viola Ruffner, the white lady he worked for performing household duties (after he had worked at some really rough manual labor jobs), showed him as a teenager that an education would earn respect, a better ability to chose his work, and the money to buy better living conditions. All of that would essentially generate more self esteem and often (but not always) accomplish more equal treatment from others (regardless of color).


 * 7. You asked "what he did to help African-Americans..." He helped bring education to millions of African Americans a legacy which continues today. He also helped everyone (including white people) better understand the plight of the blacks after the end of slavery and see that they could be valuable contributing members of a better society for all, primarily through earning their own way, and that could best be enabled through good education(s).


 * 8. At his time in our history, education and public awareness and understanding were the areas where he could make the most difference. Add a practical and peaceful approach, and his focus on goals which he could achieve, you have essentially embraced his values.


 * 9. His values attracted others to help him achieve his goals. Like Viola Ruffner, he developed respect among people like Henry H. Rogers and Julius Rosenwald. Each of those men started out from very modest settings, and had found success through hard work and using their heads. Each had experienced an early business failure, and had done hard manual labor. In later successfully developing huge businesses which made them wealthy, Rogers and Rosenwald each had undoubtedly learned that racial barriers and ignorance were harmful to their goals. So, they were in step morally and business-wise with Dr. Washington, and in a position to really help him at practical levels, providing him with good advice, leadership, and lots of money. (Note, not just money).


 * 10. We don't know for sure, but I don't think I am alone in suspecting that Washington and his key supporters realized that the Founding Fathers had laid the constitutional basis for the work of others to eventually overturn such fundamentally unconstitutional practices as the segregation, Jim Crow laws, inferior schools, etc., some of which had been woven into laws, as had slavery earlier.


 * However, Booker probably realized that these would take some time and individuals educated and experienced in the practice and conversant in the technicalities and details of American law. That is not to say that he didn't want to see the legal actions happen. Rather, we have a strong clue to this in some of his discreet support of early court cases.


 * 11. It is important to understand how we arrive at the effective laws which govern the United States. The Congress passes them, and then they are subject to opinions of the Attorney General in interpreting them, further adjusted by decisions of the courts, with the U.S. Supreme Court having the last say. These concepts are also true at state and local levels, with some issues subject to review at the Federal level also. That is a complicated and ever-changing process, and some changes in laws as initially passed by legislators at each level and take many years and a lot of legal work to become effective.


 * Certainly, there is ample evidence that Henry Rogers knew all that. As a businessman, it is well-documented that Rogers sought ways to get what he wanted done without resorting to courts whenever possible. However, we know he also used them when necessary, and paid for skilled legal help to accomplish his ends. After fist fights and action in local courts failed, he had to take the powerful Chesapeake and Ohio Railway to the West Virginia Supreme Court to win the right-of way through Jenny Gap without which his Virginian Railway could not have been built to provide competition in coal shipping to Hampton Roads. However, Rogers saw the courts as a costly and time-consuming last resort in reaching his goals.


 * During their many cruises aboard the ''Kanawha, it is more than likely that Henry Rogers would have discussed the legal process and shared his views with Washington as they discussed how to accomplish the betterment of the circumstances of the blacks in the South. We know that Julius Rosenwald had also been having similar discussions with other Jewish American businessmen for years before joining forces with Washington in 1912, and serving on the Board of Tuskegee, work which he continued long after Washington died in 1915, until his own death in 1932.


 * 12. Without Booker T. Washington's work (and those of many others), it is questionable whether the legal work which has already been accomplished to gain rights that are constitutionally guaranteed to all Americans would have yet been done. (i.e. Would the lawyers, many black, who argued Brown vs Board of Education have even become educated to learn their practice and use it successfully?


 * 13. I think Booker T. Washington chose practical compromises with current realities to gain important long-term goals. The term "Accommodator" was accurate, but only fairly applied when you stand back and look at WHY he was accommodating. The fact is that our politicians in the U.S. at every level of government do this very day in a democratic system, compromising their individual needs and desires where a consensus with others is often needed to get anything done. Of course, we also have the lawyers to fight for principles when consensus fails to protects the concepts of the Constitution. That is why the ACLU is both widely unpopular and very valuable to each of us.


 * 14. I would also point out that Thomas Jefferson and others had to compromise certain principles at the time of the founding of the U.S.. Slavery and equality were divisive issues whcih would have prevented the Union from being formed had that not been compromise. However, although Jefferson and others had to accommodate a consensus for the short-term at the time, they clearly knew that they were including constitutional principles into the final documents which created the Union and with the Supreme Court, the mechanism   that would later accomplish what couldn't be done immediately. If we chose to consider Dr. Washington an "Accommodator", we certainly should apply the same label to Thomas Jefferson.


 * As an American in 2007, I think the work of Jefferson, Booker T. Washington, Henry Rogers, and Julius Rosenwald and many many others have all helped make our country a better place. I am grateful for their lives and contributions. Today, as many have said, I also think that democracy as practiced in the U.S. is still an experiment and work in progress. And whoever you are, you get to participate and make a difference in our future.
 * Mark in Historic Triangle of Virginia Vaoverland 13:52, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Adding an Infobox
I'm a new Wikipedian, and this is the first infobox I've ever make. I wouldn't be surprized if there's a ton of mistakes. Feel free to edit it. I just made it because it was suggested that an infobox should be created for this article, and I was told to be bold in my edits. This is the first real big edit I've made too.

Sorry for any mistakes. Michaeldsuarez 22:48, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


 * No need to apologize. It's a great start. — Malik Shabazz | Talk 19:55, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Excellence is to do a common thing uncommonly well

Is this his quote, because thats pretty much what the guy on Heinz ketchup quotes too

He was an eugenicist?
I saw, in some sites, that he was an eugenicist.Is this correct?Agre22 (talk) 15:05, 20 June 2008 (UTC)agre22
 * I've never heard that, but I wouldn't be too surprised. A good many thinkers of the late-18th/early-19th centuries thought eugenics could be a good idea. It was the Nazis bad example that finally put the idea to rest. – Quadell (talk) (random) 02:13, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Did he say education spoiled many a good pow hand? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.128.155.172 (talk) 01:25, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * What's a pow hand? It doesn't look like anyone ever said that. – Quadell (talk) (random) 02:13, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, plow hand! Okay, I get it. No, that's a line in A Raisin in the Sun by Lorraine Vivian Hansberry. Hansberry didn't like Booker T. Washington, and one of her fictional characters attributes the quote to him. But there's no evidence he ever really said it. – Quadell (talk) (random) 02:19, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

first AA invited to white house
Please correct the record. Frederick Douglass was the first AA invited to the White House. In fact, he served as its Grand Marshall. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.5.63.63 (talk) 21:47, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Concur that Lincoln invited Frederick Douglass to the white house. It is documented in the Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin. On page 649 she writes how Lincoln asked Colonel John Eaton if he thought Frederick Douglass "could be induced to come to see him." Douglass met the president on August 19, 1864. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skelly6265 (talk • contribs) 20:22, 15 March 2010 (UTC)  Record corrected.

Either enable the edit option or fix this typo.
There's a typo near the beginning of the Booker T. Washington Wikipedia article, where the text reads: "...the Rockefeller family who to contributed millions of dollars for education at Hampton, Tuskegee and helped pay for hundreds of public schools for black children in the South, as well as to donate to legal challenges to segregation and disfranchisement." Delete the "to" that I marked in boldface in the excerpt. And anyway, why has the edit option been disabled? I bet there are no typos in George W. Bush's Wikipedia article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.249.224.97 (talk) 21:07, November 20, 2008


 * Thanks for pointing out the typo. I've fixed it.
 * To answer your question, this article is semi-protected because it is frequently vandalized by unregistered users. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 21:18, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Here's another error to fix: "In the summer of 1865, at the age of nine, their mother moved Booker, his brother John and his sister Amanda". By the "nearest antecedent" rule, it means their mother was aged nine. :-) Better: "In the summer of 1865, when he was nine, their mother moved..."

How disgusting that vandals would attack such an innocuous article. Some individuals are worse than sub-human - they're sub-mammalian at best.


 * Thanks for this suggestion. I agree and have clarified the wording as you suggested. — Taranah (talk) 18:00, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Booker T. Washington as first black "honored guest" at the White House
"Honored guest" should be defined. The above is a difficult statement to support. Frederick Douglass visited Lincoln many times at The White House, for example on August 19, 1864. Elsewhere in the Booker Washington piece the word "honored" is left out and it's stated that Washington was the first black man to be received at The White House. This should be corrected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.43.212.119 (talk) 23:45, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

George Washington Carver
Why is there no mention of George Washington Carver and his relationship with Booker? Unless I am just blind and missed it somehow!

New photos at Library of Congress
There are some new high-res photos of Washington available at the Library of Congress site. I think Durova is working on restoring one of them. Kaldari (talk) 16:54, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

"Tuskegie" should be spelled "Tuskegee"
In the caption that reads "Booker Washington and Theodore Roosevelt at Tuskegie Institute, 1905", Tuskegee is misspelled. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Politicalthought (talk • contribs) 13:25, 15 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Oops. I wonder how that slipped in. Thanks for catching it. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 17:40, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

"He was the dominant figure in the African American community in the United States from 1890 to 1915."
The above statement is inaccurate (and not to mention, vague). By the time a white mob nearly beat him to death in New York City in March 1911, Booker T. Washington's star was already well on its descent, and W.E.B. Du Bois' well on its rise. With Woodrow Wilson's inauguration in 1913, Washington's influence with the executive branch and power within what the article calls "the African American community" were at an end. See, e.g., Philip Dray, At the Hands of Persons Unknown: The Lynching of Black America, at 188-89, 204 (Modern Library 2003). 68.36.105.9 (talk) 20:10, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * that is a parenthetical remark by Dray--he does not explain what he means--and it contradicts the major biographers. Louis Harlan for example shows that in BTW was influential with state officials in 1914--the governor for example (Harlan Booker T. Washington: The Wizard of Tuskegee 1901-1915 2: 243). Also in 1914 BTW got 30% of the county agent funds for blacks in Alabama (the funds came from the new Smith-Lever Act passed by Congress in 1914) [Harlan vol 2 p 211]; also in 1914 he launched a major new public health initiative (Harlan  2:234). Although BTW was losing his energy--indeed, was dying-- Harlan concludes that in 1914 BTW "pulled the strings of philanthropy more than ever, and watched his campus as knowingly as the eye of God. He had a large following that believed his combination of accommodation and alternative routes could steer them through the age of segregation." (Harlan 2: 406)  In Jan 1915 the Senate passed a bill to end the immigration of blacks into the US; Harlan says, "With less than a week in which to work, Washington marshaled a newspaper, letter, and lobbying campaign that defeated the bill." (Harlan 2:413). Harlan gives numerous other examples which show that BTW was very much a national force until his death. Rjensen (talk) 03:22, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Edits for style: OK? Not OK?
I was looking at this article today and noticed some longer sentences needed splitting up. Also I've changed some wordings, trying to reduce possibility of jargon and to make some more specific wikilinks while maintaining the general tone of the article. If this meets the approval of the usual editors I'd like to do some more of the same a little bit along. Regards. Trilobitealive (talk) 15:42, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Reference Number 19 is Misquoted
Washington p 68 (1972) (#19) is misquoted from the source, (Washington,Booker T., Louis R Harlan, John W. Blassingame The Booker T. Washington Papers, University of Illinois Press (1972) ISBN 0252002423 Google Book Search. Retrieved on February 4, 2009.) The quote is: “patience, industry, thrift, and usefulness.”, but should be "industry, thrift, intelligence and property;" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Corcoranp (talk • contribs) 17:10, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Gender Error
I belive that this is incorect. "Washington was born into slavery to June, an enslaved African American woman on the Burroughs Plantation in southwest Virginia." - This implies he was born as a woman. Hopefully, I am not missing any fact about this.

~Best Regards~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.110.163.252 (talk) 02:27, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Honors and memorials first in W House
"Washington, as the guest of President Theodore Roosevelt in 1901, was the first African-American ever invited to the White House."

Jefferson invited - not as a guest but as a chef - one of the Hemings to work for him (he'd previously been his slave). He refused Jefferson's offer. I'm not sure, therefore, that the article is correct when it makes this claim. Further the McCain quote makes it seem as if blacks didn't have a long history in the W House: First, slaves built the house; second, slaves laboured in that house; third, a slave was born in that house; and fifth...well, you get the point. I think a change is in order.Ebanony (talk) 14:10, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "invited" as in inviting the president of the bank to dine on terms of equality, it was not like letting a servant in the back door. It was a Big Deal at the time. There were always many blacks working at the White House, but that did not upset Southern sensibilities that TR's recognition of social equality to BTW did. Rjensen (talk) 14:42, 6 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Africans did not always work there. They were slaves, and afterwards some worked there for money. Jefferson didn't pay his slaves, though he invited a free man to work there too. At any rate, the problem is the sentence makes Booker seem the first black man in the W House, and the McCain quote gives that impression too. He wasn't. I agree Booker's visit caused quite a stir, and that's why it should be distinguished from those Africans who were treated as servants to make it clear Booker was not the first African there, but the first guest.


 * "though Africans Americans had a long history as slaves and later paid servants in the White House, Booker was the first African American invited as a dinner guest, and this caused quite a stir" - or something like that. This makes the point you and I were both saying.Ebanony (talk) 12:42, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Merger proposal for List of books written by Booker T. Washington
Oppose: Lists of works by major authors are legitimate subjects for independent articles and a book list section would get lost in this very long primary article. Trilobitealive (talk) 20:48, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Support --he only wrote five books, one of which is discussed at length in this article. BTW was not a "major author" --except in the sense in that one book was influential. A separate stub is not useful to anyoneRjensen (talk) 21:09, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment How do we know which are the major nor minor authors if no one can look up what books they wrote? There no article List of books written by African-American authors nor List of nonfiction books written by African-American authors. Is there a policy against such articles of is it just that no one has embarked on such a project? Where would one begin? Could this short list be the starting point?Trilobitealive (talk) 18:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
 * another problem is that the books were ghost-written by Washington's staff speechwriters, making his status as "author" very dubious. see Harlan, Booker T. Washington: The Wizard of Tuskegee 1901-1915. p 290 on the ghostwriters Thrasher and Park. (BTW thanked both men in his prefaces: "Without the painstaking and generous assistance of Mr. Max Bennett Thrasher I could not have succeeded in any satisfactory degree." Rjensen (talk) 19:30, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I think that you'd be hard put to find any academic nor political figure whose writing was not assisted by others at some point and I'd also think you'd find that same assertion of ghost writing common. Which is actually tangential to the question of appropriateness of an article listing his works. "Very dubious" is a poor choice of adjective.Trilobitealive (talk) 17:42, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * calling a person an "author" implies he wrote something. Actually, BTW was a pioneer in the use of ghost writers (they were not used by the White Hosue until the 1920s--people like McKinley, Bryan, Roosevelt, Lafollette, Taft & Wilson wrote their own material. Rjensen (talk) 19:45, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * It is an unworthy objective to try to change history. It is sufficient to note such opinions, giving them the weight they deserve and move on. Washington credited his assistants where credit was due and the rest is speculation or revisionism. See WP:NOR, WP:V, WP:NPOV, WP:Fringe. I notice you didn't answer my comment regarding the lack of articles listing works by African-American writers. Trilobitealive (talk) 02:54, 26 April 2011 (UTC)