Talk:Bookkeeping/Archives/2013

What else needs to be put in this article to raise its standard?
Any suggestions? You don't have to write the paragraphs, just put your idea here and someone may take the plunge and write about your suggestion. List suggestions below this line. --NilssonDenver (talk) 22:54, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

First computer bookkeeping by countable lettering
The countable lettering is operation accountant the purpose of which is to check the good payment of the invoices. There exist two types of lettering : manual Lettering : This technique consisted in providing with the same letter ; the payments as well as the recorded writings is with the large book connected, on flying accounts mechanized or obtained by transfer (Obbo System) which they balanced. Thus in the event of needs, it was possible to recognize the writings balanced like carrying out of them the painful periodic manual revivals of the writings not well-read women. (Not balanced) conversational Lettering : The lettering of qualification of the entries is an invention of the Sixties which opened the way with the book-keeping on computer. It resembles of nothing traditional countable lettering. He was born in 1962 with the SACM of Mulhouse - France - and was recognized in 1965 following the rejection of Specifications IBM by Gilbert Bitsch, project manager of administrative and countable work. This one could oppose solutions to him which it had already implemented on tabulators IBM 421 - a punched-card tool. The schedule of conditions refused corresponded to the state of the art of the time which did not make it possible to hold of accountancy on computer. It abolished simply the concept of accounts to the profit of a questionable on request and manually purged history file on perforated cards. This solution thus did not make behavior of account and did not allow either the behavior of auxiliary accountancies by data processing. It made necessary the acquisition or the maintenance of accounting machines reserved because of their prohibitory costs to the only large companies. I.History of interactive computing lettering The first data-processing countable lettering was applied by the first conversational conversation mode of the history of data processing to the SACM of Mulhouse. It made it possible into 1965 to carry out the first positioning of the details of the last balance of an account of the history of accountancy on a tabulator 421 IBM. This lettering allowed the reject of the first accounting machine of the history of the mechanization of the accountancy which was carried out by a Boroughs machine in the Twenties of the XXe century. Those redundant since the arrival of the first tabulators established in Large companies. The first lettering of qualification of the writings was made on tabulator IBM 421 in 1962 for the auxiliary accountancy of the suppliers and in 1965 for the auxiliary accountancy of the customers and the various debtor-creditors. In its historical version of 1962 this lettering consisted with: - To codify by a " P" (Paid) data-processing accounts classified with accountancy. This " P" was to be registered opposite the lines of writings balanced in the column especially envisaged for this purpose. An audit of the online bookkeeping applications listed in the respective section "Popular examples include FreshBooks, Blinksale and Simplybill." These are all online invoice companies, not bookkeeping applications. A quick Google search reveals: Outright.com, NetSuite, Quickbooks Online --pobrien (talk) 10:34, 14 July 2009

What do people find hard to understand in this article?
Is this article too simple or too complicated? Tell us which paragraphs you don't understand. List suggestions below this line. --NilssonDenver (talk) 22:54, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Hi. I found "For every debit journal there must an equivalent credit journal." hard to understand.. it suggests multiple journal books. Would "For every debit entry there must an equivalent credit entry" be correct ? If so I would find that much clearer. SimonMichael (talk) 21:58, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

The double entry is not hard to understand if you look at the business accounts as an entity. The key word is entity, from the very beginning before a business commence any transaction, assume its very first entry would be investment, this entry would be Debit bank $5,000 and Credit Capital $5,000. And this capital technically is sum invested by the owner, so the business has $5,000 in the bank (debit entry, and the bank is an asset), but this $5,000 is owing to the business owner who put in the money (credit entry, in equity section).

This example typically illustrates the very importance of business entity, what goes in comes out, are all accounted for without missing a cent. And the best way to keep track of this is the double entry recording of each transaction. What kind of journals to be created to account for it is another matter, under best accounting practices and legislation.Bookkeepersg (talk) 23:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Making Reference to Geographical Areas
A paragraph was written about bookkeeping in the UK. This article,in my opinion :-) is an article on bookkeeping. If a paragraph on every geographical location in the world is added this article, it will become ridiculously long. If someone wishes to write an article about about "Bookkeeping in the UK", they should create a new article and name it "Bookkeeping in the UK". The should avoid advertising any businesses in that article. While I am an huge promoter of standards in bookkeeping and encourage professional support organisations and professionally organised businesses, we must respect the WikiPedia terms and avoid advertisements in articles. --NilssonDenver (talk) 21:58, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Making Reference to Bookkeeping Associations
This should not be an article on bookkeeping associations. Someone should create an article on Bookkeeping Associations and then this can be linked to in the bookkeeping article. Otherwise we will end up with a long list of bookkeeping associations listed in article making it unreadable and unnecessarily long. --NilssonDenver (talk) 21:58, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I did this my self, set up article on bookkeeping associations :-) --NilssonDenver (talk) 22:47, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Items previously proposed and discussed and accepted or rejected
IMPORTANT: While it is preferred not to reopen these discussions, a good argument against what was agreed could lead to the reversal of the originally accepted proposal. Add any new comments after the "PROPOSAL" text on a new line

Merging to Financial accountancy
These are two related but totally different subjects. Would you merge the practice of Medicine and the practice of nursing, as in my opinion these subjects are related but two different subjects. Financial Accountants and Bookkeepers are very different people --NilssonDenver 12:17, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes I agree. Its like merging "paper manufacturing" with "logging". The medicine analogy is a good one. Dunno who suggested the merge, what are the arguments for a merge? Smorter 02:50, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

As an accounting practitioner, I have to oppose the merging of these topics. Bookkeeping has been described and is about the mechanical process of recording business transactions. Financial accounting encompasses the activity of a bookkeper and is wider in scope, because it includes, among others, the analysis of the records prepared by the bookkeper. Modelwatcher 09:26, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

i agree with the above suggestion since book keeping deals with the recording of all financial transactions and financial transactions deals with the financial accountancy...Anoopnair2050 (talk) 15:06, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

PROPOSAL NOT ACCEPTED - MERGER REJECTED

Trivia
"Bookkeeper" and "bookkeeping" are the only words in the English language with three pairs of letters next to each other: "oo," "kk," and "ee."

It has been noted by an unknown user that the trivia above is incorrect. Can someone please clarify. Are their others? NOTE: Please use the discussion area to make comments rather than the article so as to avoid confusion when the article is being read by others NilssonDenver 16:15, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Was the unknown user this guy ? This article was his first edit, before he grew horns.--Shtove 22:06, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, there is also bookkeepers and bookkeeperish. And what about the poor subbookkeeper? Notinasnaid 12:57, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

PROPOSAL ACCEPTED - REMOVAL OF TRIVIA

Accounting Link table
This table keeps appearing in articles. In my opinion it is too general and cannot cover every aspect of accounting. It may look nice but it is irrelevant to articles as their are topics in it that don't apply to articles it is placed in and their are other items left out of it. We have external links at the bottom of articles when required. Accounting topics are many and varied and as an accounting professional this table should not be placed in any article as it can never be specific enough and it is too imposing on any article.

I have removed this from other articles and my home page has been vandalised and I have been personally abused. I think this table is not appropriate. NilssonDenver 16:33, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

PROPOSAL ACCEPTED - REMOVAL OF LINK TABLE

Merger Online bookkeeping

 * Merge - topics are closely related and can be merged. Headphonos 12:19, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Note Headphonos is a banned sock puppet. --SueHay 15:40, 16 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I would support the merger. It is the same thing but online. NilssonDenver 13:20, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Considering online bookkeeping is a newly emerging field with different tools such as collaboration and web processes, I think it might warrant a page of its own. Kelsarbot 23:17, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Note This comment is Kelsarbot's only contribution to Wikpedia to date. --SueHay 15:40, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Merge complete -- &#8226; &#8226; &#8226; Blue Pixel 02:15, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge Differences between online bookkeeping and offline bookkeeping can be covered here. --SueHay 14:19, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge - online bookkeeping clearly belongs on this page, as the "Online" section already makes reference to it. Any differences can be addressed in that section. akendall (talk) 18:06, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


 * suggest archival Sanjiv swarup (talk) 02:49, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

PROPOSAL ACCEPTED - MERGE ONLINE BOOKKEEPING INTO BOOKKEEPING

Merge from Footing (bookkeeping)
The article Footing (bookkeeping) is short and related to bookkeeping. It could easily be merged in bookkeeping. It does not require it's own article. Chessy999 (talk) 11:10, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

i agree with the above suggestion it will really save time of the people while going through online on the article.and footing is related to bookkeeping terms for summarising a table of numbers by column and by row.Anoopnair2050 (talk) 15:13, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * due to consensus : merged Sanjiv swarup (talk) 02:42, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

PROPOSAL ACCEPTED - FOOTING ARTICLE MERGED WITH BOOKKEEPING ARTICLE

Nice, now 'Footing' leads here and the word 'Footing' is not even mentioned in the article Mife (talk) 18:59, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Disagree on some recent changes.
The change of text by user 141.155.135.66 I would differ with.

"Daybook is a descriptive and chronological (diary-like) record of day-to-day financial transactions or a book of original entry rarely kept for the entries are now contained in original documents such as invoices and supporting documents. Daybook's details must be entered more formally into journals to enable posting to ledgers. Daybooks include:"

This statement is incorrect. Daybooks are used regularly in business and non business systems every day.

The removal of a heading Bookkeeping Systems assumes readers know that there are systems. A heading of Bookkeeping Systems allow for the breakdown in sub menus of each system and makes it easier to read or link to the section of bookkeeping systems or to the sub sections.

Under terminology, it is not just spelling but the use of totally different words such as checking account/current account. The exact heading needs to be thought out.

This sentence is incorrect, journals are recorded in the journal daybook. The word journal should not be listed.

"Bookkeeping (book-keeping or book keeping''') is the recording of the value of assets, liabilities, income, and expenses in the daybooks, journals, and ledgers"

I wish to reinstate removed text and propose the above amendments.

---NOTE--- I don't want to get into an edit war. I have been working on this article and improving it. I would like to discuss any further changes here in the discussion area. Thanks --NilssonDenver (talk) 22:10, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Hello! We all have and wars lead to nowhere. I am trying to achieve a consistency with the Accounting Dictionary, which separates daybooks from journals: "Daybook. Rarely used Book of Original Entry. It is basically a descriptive, chronological record of day-to-day business transactions, like a diary. Details formerly kept in daybooks are now represented by original documents such as invoices and supporting documents. If daybooks are kept, their detail must subsequently be entered into journals in bookkeeping form to enable posting to ledgers.".


 * The "Bookkeeping Systems" heading is unnecessary for the article is about bookkeeping implying "of bookkeeping" at the end of each heading and everywhere else (a standard rule); people understand that and the previous editors did not see a need for such heading too.


 * I am not a good speller or stylist and I have no preference on "checking account/current account"; making changes (in good faith) is faster than discussing; as long as the edits are not undone we will find a best solution through repetitive reediting.


 * A clarification of a "daybook" separation will result in the 1st sentence correction.


 * Let's fix it. --141.155.135.66 (talk) 05:30, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Lead
I'm Removing the spellings that redirect to here, and am merging the current lead with the 12:28, December 8, 2008 lead for clarity, as follows:

Bookkeeping is the recording of all financial transactions -- what is bought, sold, owed, etc. -- by an individual or organization (including a corporation or legal person). Bookkeeping is part of the accounting cycle, and the bookkeepers work is closely related to that of accountants. Individual and family bookkeeping involves the use of checking account register, or savings account passbook. Individuals who borrow or lend money keep track how much they owe or are owed respectively. Business bookkeeping is parted into accounting periods and records expenses, income, liabilities and assets in the daybooks, journals, and ledgers, in which debit and credit entries are chronologically posted to record changes in value.

--Chuck (talk) 20:18, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I have changed the lead paragraph to a easier to read (my opinion :-) )lead paragraph that is more generic and less technical and not an extract from a technical book which may assume you already understand bookkeeping and all its terminologies. I also feel that there is no need to distinguish between individuals and corporations as the assumptions made about how each does its bookkeeping I would disagree with. Family bookkeeping can be quite sophisticated and much better than corporate bookkeeping. Accounting may be handled quite differently! Just because someone wrote a book, does not mean they are correct. I wrote a book and could quote from it, but it does not make me correct. My book just contains my viewpoints on bookkeeping :-) NilssonDenver (talk) 21:47, 3 April 2009 (UTC)