Talk:Bootstrap paradox in fiction

my little pony

 * Ahem* I have removed the "My Little Pony" example because it is not a clear example of an ontological paradox. Twilight Sparkle does not go to the Canterlot library to retrieve the time travel spell, but a different spell; one to stop time.  This leaves only "time-related spells are in the Starswirl the Bearded wing" as a possible ontological paradox, and, given Future Twilight's attitude when relaying the information, it's entirely possible Past Twilight knew that much already, but forgot it in the excitement of meeting her former self.

If any of you are wondering why people are discussing ontological paradoxes in My Little Pony -- well, you clearly haven't been watching My Little Pony. 75.210.130.97 (talk) 01:33, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

No BTTF?
Back to the Future is riddled with these. One notable example: the song "Johnny Be Good". Marty learned it from the Van Halen cover, who adapted it from the Chuck Berry original, which (according to the film's fiction) he heard over the phone when his brother Marvin heard it being played by Marty at the dance. Thus nobody can be credited as the original author of the song. Lurlock (talk) 17:59, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I think the reason BTTF keeps being taken out is that it relies on the "multiple universes" get-out clause, which means that, technically, there are no paradoxes, only alternate realities. However, that is also true of the Terminator franchise, so I don't really think it applies.  Serendi pod ous  19:41, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Article title
I object to the use of "Bootstrap paradox" in the title of this article. "Ontological paradox" is the formal or scientific name and since such a name exists it should be used for the article title rather than a colloquial name. Reccommend the title "Bootstrap paradox in fiction" be renamed to "Ontological paradox in fiction". ObiWanBillKenobi (talk) 03:49, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Continue discussion here.  Serendi pod ous  04:52, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Article should be deleted
I proposed this article be deleted well over a year ago, from memory it was considered a weak keep with recommendations that the article be wikified. The article still attracts unsourced that demonstrate no great merit or notability. I am minded to renominate the article as it has not a single reference and doesn't appear to be notable. Jasonfward (talk) 22:37, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
 * All that will happen if you delete this article is that the same cruft will end up on Bootstrap paradox. And don't say "then we'll delete it there", because you won't. You cruftoids talk a good talk, but you never DO anything. You always leave us alone to mop up the results of your carpet bombing campaigns.  Serendi pod ous  11:20, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * i stubbed the article removing all of the unsourced original research based on primary sources. I had thought that it would be easy to find commentary about the use in fiction, but have had very little luck so far. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  00:06, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
 * a little more work and I came with enough sources talking about the subject that I think it is now within the standards for a stand alone article and will just need maintenance that any new content is appropriately sourced. --  TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  03:26, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Are you willing to maintain this? Then welcome to Purgatory. It will last the rest of your life. Serendi pod ous  08:16, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
 * @ TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom, great job, I will look to see if I can find any sources and post what I find here. Jasonfward (talk) 17:16, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
 * @ Serendi pod ous  Please keep your insults to yourself, they render the remainder of your post unworthy of reply. Jasonfward (talk) 17:16, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Potencial sources
A very new book "Time Travel: The Popular Philosophy of Narrative" http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Time-Travel-David-Wittenberg/9780823249961?redirected=true&selectCurrency=GBP looks like it may be a good source. Jasonfward (talk) 17:49, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

renovationsf.org/downloads/academic-proceedings.pdf#page=28

sydney.edu.au/arts/publications/philament/issue18_pdfs/Philament_18_Time_Editorial.pdf referes to Futurama

Jasonfward (talk) 21:52, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Anyone with a JSTOR subscription, this looks good http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/4240359?uid=3738032&uid=2&uid=4&sid=21101625685741 as it appears (from what I've been able to ascertain) to name who invented the "bootstrap paradox" and in what work of fiction. Jasonfward (talk) 21:58, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

I think this is the same article as on JSTOR, still needs a sub to see it in entirety http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-8705.1963.tb01203.x/abstract Jasonfward (talk) 22:01, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Again appears to name the first use of "bootrap paradox" in fiction, but book is in German and I cannot read German. - http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=yHGt8Y-Fr5QC&oi=fnd&pg=PT1&dq=bootstrap+paradox+fiction&ots=bILnPZEkA0&sig=zIO4H4pcDwlsWXoOvX-9CGbhQQE Jasonfward (talk) 22:06, 3 February 2013 (UTC)