Talk:Borage

Pimm's and borage
Borage is one of the traditional additions to the "salad" added to a Pimm's (no. 1 - the gin-based Pimm's) - at least in the UK.

Hair Commodore 21:11, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Borage Guide duplicated information contained at other external links and mostly advertising. JudyJohn 23:15, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I've always heard that borage was replaced by cucumber - which stands to reason due to its flavoring. Willniebling (talk) 20:15, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Borage as a drug
Borage has also become a running joke among many people in the UK as a hallucinatory drug...perhaps this should be added?

--82.28.113.136 21:15, 8 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Anyone who thinks that borage is halucinatory has been taking too many genuine drugs already! In fact, eating any part of the plant apart from the oil may result in liver damage because of the pyrrolizidine alkaloids present.  Just because it's natural, it doesn't mean it's safe.  Beechnut (talk) 23:40, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Use as tea
I have added this: "Tea made from the dried flowers is a traditional calming drink in Iran. It has a rich purple color that amazingly turns into a bright pink by adding a few drops of lemon juice" I think it is significant to note that the flowers could also be brewed as a tea, among other culinary uses. I have no idea why some unidentified IPs keep deleting this sentence. Isn't it informative and interesting. (The change of color is really amazing, just try it once). Sararkd (talk) 22:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree that this is an interesting fact and would like to see it retained. However, I can also see why it was deleted (not by me), because there is no external reference to support the statement.  If you can supply an independent source which corroborates it, then I think that it will be safe from deletion. See WP:RS. Beechnut (talk) 12:14, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I did a search, it seems like the use of Borage as a tea is not very uncommon, and particularly becoming more popular in the west. I do get your point, but why should this fact be different from for instance its use in "Frankfurter Grüne Sauce", which also has no reference? That may be a well known recipe among Germans and this tea is also quite popular in Iran.

Anyway I can provide links for using Borage as a tea, but I didn't find anything about the color change, would a picture do?

I really don't like to continue this edit war, particularly with an anonymous person. I would edit the page whenever I find time to find the most relevant links and take a picture.

Sararkd (talk) 14:03, 5 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Fair point about the German reference - that needs a reference too. I was only suggesting why I thought your contribution had been deleted and how to make it safe.  I don't think this is an edit war.  If you provide good references, no fair-minded editor will delete your work. And edits by unfair-minded editors can easily be reversed. Beechnut (talk) 22:02, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I need help, this is my first year growing this plant plus I have never used it before. So after reading this article I am not sure if I should eat the leaves while fresh or only dried, or should I only use the flowers. Plus I am not sure about the hair on the leaves do you need to srub them off? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.23.193.243 (talk) 23:45, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Here is another web page referring to the color change of the Iranian tea drink:

http://herbalcareshop.com/HerbalRemedies/Borage/

Refutation of the pyrrolizidine alkaloid content of borage
I was a little curious about the claims made in the article so I conducted a literature search and found a scientific study that seems to refute the claim that borage contains a high concentration (10 ppm) of pyrrolizidine alkaloids.
 * Pyrrolizidine Alkaloid Content in Crude and Processed Borage Oil from Different Processing Stages

If there are no objections within the next two days I'll proceed to remove these claims from the article since this study seems to render such a claim (at the very least) moot. Anubeon (talk) 18:02, 26 July 2008 (UTC)


 * If you read carefully the title of the paper you cited, you will see that they found no alkaloids in the seed oil. The wiki article refers to alkaloids in the leaves, which were not examined by the authors of the paper.  The wiki article needs a lot of work on it, or even a complete rewrite, which I hope to tackle one day when I have time.  Meanwhile, the alkaloid statements are accurate so please don't delete them.  See, for instance http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/Bora_off.html Beechnut (talk) 20:39, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

I also found this page: http://www.brainlife.org/abstract/1999/bioriginal_pyrrolizidine1999.htm

"Are pyrrolizidine alkaloids found in the borage plant? 	 	PA s have in fact been identified in the leaf, flower, and seed of the borage plant (boraginiceae). However, it is important to note that PAs have NEVER been found in borage seed oil. Due to the presence of nitrogen in the double ring system, PAs are soluble in both water and alcohol, but are NOT soluble in the oil. PAs identified in the plant parts are predominantly a harmless saturated PA known as thesinine; however, small amounts of the potentially harmful, unsaturated PA amabiline have been detected in leaves and seed4. Studies have shown that the total alkaloid amount in the plant, relative to dry weight, is less than 0.001%2. Further studies have substantiated the absence of PAs in borage oil4."

Borage oil DOES contain PA in the levels of up to 250ng/1g oil. We will publish the study soon. The GC study often cited has analytical flaws since it requires derivatization and cannot detect the presence of more hydrophylic PA. Borage often contain glycosylated PA which cannot be detected using the procedure used for GC-MS analysis. The content of PA in commercial oils varies considerably, from 20ng up 500ng/1g. No correlation with the price, though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.248.217.192 (talk) 20:55, 26 April 2011 (UTC) page has references on it: 1. Foster S. (1993). FDA Exaggerates Risks of Herbs. health Foods Business. Aug; 39(8): 22-23. 2. Roeder E. (1995). Medicinal plants in Europe containing pyrrolizidine alkaloids. Pharmazie. Feb; 50(2): 83-98. 3. Robins D.J. (1995). Pyrrolizidine alkaloids. Natural Products Reports, pp. 413-418. 4. Dodson C.D. and Stermitz F.R. (1986). Pyrrolizidine alkaloids from borage (Borago officinalis) seeds and flowers. J. Nat. Prod. 49(4): 727-728. 5. Parvais O., Stricht B.V., Vanhaeln-Fastre R., and Vanhaelen M. (1994). TLC detection of pyrrolizidine alkaloids in oil extracted from the seeds of Borago officinalis. Journal of Planar Chromatography. 7: 80-82.

Interaction with other medication
Since Borage interacts with hormone levels, is it possible that it could interfere with the effectiveness of oral contraceptives and other hormone-based medications? Or would a few flowers be too low a dosage to have an effect? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.107.210.238 (talk) 11:21, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Native
It says in this source: "Donald G. Barceloux (2008). Medical Toxicology of Natural Substances: Foods, Fungi, Medicinal Herbs, Plants, and Venomous Animals (Hardcover ed.). Wiley. p. 397. ISBN 047172761X." That Borage is native to Syria. There is also this source: "It is believed to have originated in Syria but today it is cultivated all over the world and is often found growing wild.", So why was this deleted? Where is the evidence that this is incorrect? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 20:16, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Borage is native to Syria, agreed. Borage is also native to many other parts of the Mediterranean region. Borage has been known to the peoples of the Mediterranean region from time immemorial. The ancient Greeks and Romans called it "ox tongue". The medieval Arabs also called it "ox tongue" (Arabic lisan al-thour). The natural environments of Italy, Greece, Turkey, and western Syria are all suitable for the plant to grow in. You can find many, many, many references that say the plant is native to the Mediterrranean. These references do not say the plant originated Syria. There is no basis for thinking it can be particularly Syrian. Seanwal111111 (talk) 20:30, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The only sources here say Syria, and there is no sources saying anything else. So that is the only thing that matters. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 22:10, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The following page is from a website financed by the USA government department of agriculture (GRIN Database). It states the places where borage is native (and separately states the places where it has become naturalized), and at the foot of the page it gives a list of further references: http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?7422


 * The following page is from a website financed by the European Union (Euro+Med PlantBase). It gives a list of countries where borage is (1) "native", (2) "doubtfully native", and (3) "introduced": http://ww2.bgbm.org/EuroPlusMed/PTaxonDetailOccurrence.asp?NameId=109650&PTRefFk=7100000 . The plant is native in Tunisia, Morocco, Spain, Italy, etc. That page also gives a reference for further information on each individual country. Click on the word "reference" beside the country name on the page. Seanwal111111 (talk) 23:16, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Effectivness
The claim about this stuff being effective in naturopathic preparations is dubious. Does anyone have any evidence to support this claim? Delta13C (talk) 19:49, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 1 one external link on Borage. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130924110832/http://www.ghorganics.com/page2.html to http://www.ghorganics.com/page2.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 02:28, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Borage. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130302121530/http://back2theland.com/articles/14766.html to http://back2theland.com/articles/14766.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 13:52, 23 July 2017 (UTC)