Talk:Borat/Archive 3

Title
Why does the article use the full name of the title. I think it should rather be called just "Borat", per the naming conventions (i.e. do not include the subtitles). Diego_pmc Talk 08:52, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It is not a subtitle; it is part of the title. See discussion here.--Wehwalt (talk) 09:47, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Previously, the reason it was kept was because it was the official title. However the MOS indicates that articles should be given the most common and used name of the subject. For example "Bill Clinton", not "William Clinton" (just one popular example; there many, many more). And it is a subtitle, even the way it is styled on the cover indicates that. Diego_pmc  Talk 05:47, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not convinced by that. It could be on the cover like that for artistic reasons, i.e., it would take an awfully big cover to fit.  Do you have something authoritative that it is a subtitle?  The colon after Borat argues the other way.--Wehwalt (talk) 06:20, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The part following the colon is a subtitle. See Subtitles for a specific example.  We should have the shorter form of just Borat. Colonel Warden (talk) 00:53, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * However, the naming conventions also approve using the full name when the shortened form would be a short name with a disambig. We'd need a disambig for Borat as there is already an article on the character.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:24, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * No dab page would be required. Borat already redirects to this article and so the article already has a hatnote:
 * "Borat" redirects here. For the character, see Borat Sagdiyev.
 * This could then be simplified to:
 * For the character, see Borat Sagdiyev.
 * Colonel Warden (talk) 17:20, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that Per WP:Naming conventions we should use the most common name, Borat. This article should be moved to either Borat or Borat (film), and then use this current page (Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan) to redirect there. -- GateKeeper(X) @   22:12, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * There's a good instance.--Nardog (talk) 08:49, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Non-free image
Looking over the article, there are several non-free images in the article, and I don't think that File:Boratmoi.jpg is needed. Per WP:FILMS guidelines on non-free images, screenshots should only be used if there is critical commentary in the body of the text that would warrant such an image, which doesn't occur in this case. Feel free to discuss if the image should be kept, I just want to ensure that this article continues to meet the FA criteria. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 02:54, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Ice cream bear- staged?
I remember the funny scene where Borat has a bear in an ice cream van, accidentally puts the bell on and draws the kids nearby where they are scared off by the bear. Did the kids know what was going to happen and did they try taking legal action afterwards? For a more knowledgeable and relaxed Wikipedia- Nemesis646 (talk) 11:04, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Because of the way the scene is edited (the bear and the children are not in frame at the same time), and because of the expressions on the childrens faces (many continue to smile when screaming) i have assumed that the children were filmed at a different time/location than the shots of the growling bear, and were merely directed to run away screaming. It doesn't seem very likley that the scenario would have worked out as it appears in the film, with a whole group of kids showing up at the same time, and the bear popping out on cue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.195.207.241 (talk) 22:37, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Kazakh?
The article claims he is Kazakh, but is there any proof of that? He is from Kazakhstan, but he could belong to another ethnic group. Russian for example. Anyone know what is the truth? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.116.219.82 (talk) 02:53, 25 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Why has the movie maker chose that the guy be from Kazakhstan? Isn't this blasphemous? --Mahmudmasri (talk) 11:06, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Apparantly the character was loosely based on someone from Russia, but because hardly anyone in the West knows anything about Kazakhstan he uses that country, as he's free to give the character the traits he wants to use without anyone knowing whether or not they're true. Bombot (talk) 13:07, 17 March 2009 (UTC)


 * No, the character of Borat was based on a Turkish journalist. It was mentioned shortly after this stupid movie came out. Norum (talk) 20:32, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Other actors?
I've noticed that this movie only seems to mention very few actors. Why have they not given credit to all actors appearing in this film? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iribabh (talk • contribs) 03:41, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

according to the languages wich Borat uses...
In one scene Borat asks Azamat: "(czy) oni mówią po polsku?" (onee moovia po polsku) it's definitely in polish (I'm Polish)and means "(do) they speak polish?" - it was translated as something completely else. "dziękuję" and "jak się masz" is in polish as well.
 * One line is not enough. Plenty of films have a line or two in Spanish, we don't list them as Spanish movies.--Wehwalt (talk) 10:34, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Considering reprotection
Given the high volume of IP edits, few of which are helpful and most of which are vandalism, I'm considering reprotection.--Wehwalt (talk) 06:17, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Semi protection
I've semi protected the article, meaning you have to be a registered and autoconfirmed Wikipedia editor to edit it. This is because of a simple onslaught (two within minutes for example) of IP edits, fake names being added, commentary and OR, you name it. I need to go through the article with a fine tooth comb to get rid of what shouldn't be there and this will at least slow down the flood, perhaps this will take me a week or so. After that, we can have a discussion about unprotection.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:04, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Arrest of Baron-Cohen?
The article claims that Baron-Cohen was arrested during the making of the film. Was he convicted of anything? If so, is his travel to, and in, the U.S. restricted? I don't believe that he is a U.S. citizen? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.211.195.122 (talk) 20:05, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

== infobox for movie ratings ==

theres an error on this page around a template for movie ratings internationally. i dont know where the template lives. can anyone fix this? thanksMercurywoodrose (talk) 05:10, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Pamela Anderson's involvement?
Are there any known sources that clarify Pamela Anderson's level of involvment, i.e. how much was staged/how much she knew ahead of time? The scene seemed pretty real, but one has to question how close the camera crew could have gotten to her if it had not been staged. This is something that is currently lacking from the article that I think would improve it. A quick search turned up this link, but it seems to be based mostly on the statements of an unnamed insider, and not any direct quote by Anderson or anyone involved with the film. I'm not sure how reliable it is or if there might be any better references out there. –Fierce Beaver (talk) 19:14, 13 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I've never seen anything, but plainly they could not have used her image in the film without her consent. Thus I conclude it was all staged or possibly adlibbed.  Of course, she knew everything.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, Sasha seems to have gotten away with this sort of thing very often. Though I guess it'd be different with her - she has money, and that'll push the courts pretty hard. In short, I feel that more research is needed. 207.210.29.71 (talk) 06:09, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * All the people in the movie who were not actors signed releases. Most not really knowing what they were signing, of course.  As for research, feel free.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:37, 14 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I came here to see exactly what her involvement was and was somewhat disappointed by the results... I guess there isn't much information on it (though the Kid Rock bit was interesting). This article however is outstanding, and I wasn't surprised to see it was FA. Great job to all the contributors, a fun read. I still hope more info on Pam's involvement comes out at some point. –  Ker αun oςc op ia◁ galaxies  08:05, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Comma
"Because the movie was banned in Russia Ukrainian distribution companies were unable to obtain..." There should be a comma after Russia. I cannot edit it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.120.208.68 (talk) 18:20, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. Paradoxian (talk) 05:21, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

In the box with a photo of pamela anderson it says "Pamela Anderson was one of the few actors to appear in the film." Unless she is a man, it should be actress, not actor. please resolve!--174.130.207.226 (talk) 00:00, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Err, the plural of the word actor and actress, when it is compromised of both, is actors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.136.194.229 (talk) 06:07, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Todd Philips
Todd Philips is credited as a writer but the article doesn't make any mention of how he left the film. There are a few sources that note he worked on the film, it is not entirely clear if he was intended to be the director but that seems to be the case. Perhaps there are articles on Larry Charles that say how he came on board the project? If there were Production and development issues it seems like something worth a short mention in the article if anyone can dig up more information. -- Horkana (talk) 09:22, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Kazakhstan exports
In the last paragraph of the Plot section, the fictitious Kazakhstan nation anthem notes that they are the number 1 exporter of Potassium, not Magnesium.

http://www.break.com/usercontent/2007/9/BORAT-sings-national-anthem-366252.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.17.15.192 (talk) 17:34, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Potassium, not magnesium
The film plays out with a recapitulation of a mock 'Kazakhstan' national anthem glorifying the country's magnesium resources and its prostitutes as being the "cleanest in the region".

The anthem refers to potassium, not magnesium. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.255.179.166 (talk) 09:07, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Discussion pertaining to non-free image(s) used in article
A cleanup page has been created for WP:FILMS' spotlight articles. One element that is being checked in ensuring the quality of the articles is the non-free images. Currently, one or more non-free images being used in this article are under discussion to determine if they should be removed from the article for not complying with non-free and fair use requirements. Please comment at the corresponding section within the image cleanup listing. Before contributing the discussion, please first read WP:FILMNFI concerning non-free images. Ideally the discussions pertaining to the spotlight articles will be concluded by the end of June, so please comment soon to ensure there is clear consensus. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 04:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

See Also Links
The see also links currently are articles about three fake countries with guidebooks from Jetlag Travel. However, it seems that Molvanîa is the only one that is relevant. It, like the movie Borat, mocks eastern european culture. The others do not and are not related enough to be linked to the article. Trogdor31 (talk) 02:44, 7 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I deleted all three. The relevance is doubtful.--Wehwalt (talk) 03:53, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Borat's "son"
Many will recall the scene in the movie when Borat shows pictures of himself with his son, who is naked. The son was actually a gay porn star named Stonie, who has since transitioned to become a trans woman named Brittany CoxXx. I have posted a wikibio of Brittany, and think either a link to it or the redirect page Stonie (plus some of the refs and info in Brittany's article) would be appropriate to include in this article. However, I am unsure of exactly what to add. Thoughts? Suggestions? EdChem (talk) 17:06, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
 * That sounds a bit trivial to me. It is a person who didn't even act in the movie, after all, what he (she?) did after the fact is something with no relationship to his "role" in Borat.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:35, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, I was thinking more of something like: "In one memorable sight gag, Borat shows (whoever it was) photos of his "son", who is naked. The "son" was actually gay porn star Stonie who was chosen specifically because he was of legal age but appears substantially younger."  That he later became Brittany is not what I was suggesting to note - sorry I wasn't clear about that.  The Brittany page has refs that establish that (a) the photos were Stonie and (b) the reason he was chosen, plus give refs establishing what was in the sight gag, so the addition would be well-sourced.  Does that sound reasonable?  EdChem (talk) 18:08, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Fine, if all of them are demonstrably WP:RS reliable sources.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:20, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
 * It's nothing personal. With Lenin & McCarthy retired, it falls to me to preserve this article against deterioration (some has already occurred) which will wind up with it at FAR.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:21, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I've made an edit, see what you think. EdChem (talk) 19:05, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved.  Ron h jones (Talk) 22:57, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan → Borat — Per WP:TITLE, the article title should have naturalness and conciseness. More specifically, WP:COMMONNAME says, "Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's 'official' name as an article title; it instead uses the name which is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources. This includes usage in the sources used as references for the article." The sources will rarely use the long title ad nauseum. We can still write the long title in the lead sentence and the infobox, but the article title could be more concise. (This request was prompted by a similar one for Dr. Strangelove here.) --Erik (talk &#124; contribs) 00:24, 11 February 2011 (UTC)


 * This was requested once before here, it closed as no consensus. That is purely for information, as that was over three years ago.  I opposed at that time, I'm going to wait and listen to discussion here before supporting or opposing.  Many thanks,--Wehwalt (talk) 00:31, 11 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, I reviewed the discussion before starting a new one (since consensus is not immutable and all that). I found it a little strange that some editors supported the long title despite the original poster's mention of WP:COMMONNAME. Which is why I chose to quote the guidelines at length, so decisions are more based on that than gut feelings. Erik (talk &#124; contribs) 00:37, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know. Lenin & McCarthy is semi-retired, so I watch the article.  I guess the only counterargument I can think of offhand is that you don't change long-standing article names without good reason.  If this passes, as this is a FA, there will have to be something done to properly do the FA star bit, and I will consult with one of the FA delegates.  In fact, I may just talk to him now.  As I said, I don't really have strong feelings about this today.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:45, 11 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Support - Per WP:COMMONNAME. With exception being the sole purpose of identifying the actual name once when commenting on the film, no one (of professional status) regularly refers to the film by this overly long title. It's typically just "Borat". I know that the character has his own article and came before this film, but since "Borat" actually redirects to the film (indicate a clear opinion that the simple name of "Borat" is more associate with the film than the character article) it seems appropriate that this page be moved to simply "Borat", while leaving the full name in the opening sentence. If there is any confusion, and appropriate hatnote can be placed at the top of the article directing any potentially confused readers to the character page should that be what they were really looking for.   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  04:00, 11 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Support - Per WP:COMMONNAME. --John (talk) 04:54, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Support move; I entirely agree with Erik's rationale. Big Bird (talk • contribs) 13:35, 11 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Prefer to make Borat a disambiguation page - I have a slight issue with the film being a primary topic over the Borat Sagdiyev character article, as the character came into prominence significantly before the film, at least in the UK market. However, if my view is not the prevailing one and the status quo is maintained, with Borat redirecting to the film, then I would support the proposed move.
 * I think it's pretty clear that the film is the primary topic now, though. Consensus guidelines are that titles should lead users to the primary topic for that title as defined at WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, not that titles should lead users to the first subject that was known by that title. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 19:16, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Neutral I really am fine with any reasonable decision.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:45, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Support per nominator. The Celestial City (talk) 01:06, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Support per the above. MarnetteD | Talk 23:44, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Support. It's cute to have the full name, of course, but per COMMONNAME this seems logical to move. Good Ol’factory (talk) 08:31, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Support, just "Borat" is the common name, the rest is effectively a comic subtitle.--Kotniski (talk) 10:19, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Borat denounced because it was racist attack against Muslims and Kazakstanis

 * "Controversy surrounded the film even two years before its release. It was denounced for having a protagonist who is sexist, homophobic, and antisemitic, and, after the film's release, some cast members spoke against, and even sued, its creators."

So far as I know Borat was not denounced because its protagonist was anti-Semitic, homophobic, etc. Pretty much everyone understood it was satire and that it was trying to make those sorts of people look stupid.

Pretty much everyone watching on TV or in theatres understood it was satire -- but also that it used a racist xenophobic strawman argument.

It was denounced because it was a racist attack and incited religious hatred using false claims about the general beliefs and customs of Muslims and Kazaks.24.77.80.153 (talk) 05:59, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Therefore the line should be corrected to read:


 * "Controversy surrounded the film even two years before its release. It was denounced in the USA for having a protagonist who is sexist, homophobic, and antisemitic, and, after the film's release, some cast members spoke against, and even sued, its creators.


 * The character Borat, from TV and film, was denounced in much of the rest of the world for promoting false stereotypes about Muslims, eastern Europeans and gypsies."

24.77.80.153 (talk) 06:08, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Personally, I think the pressconference responding to criticism (named in the article) was funnier than the movie itself. 88.159.64.117 (talk) 21:06, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

FA status
I went through the article and personally I do not think it should be FA status. How did it pass? or was it not maintained since then?:

--JTBX (talk) 23:54, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Chunky lead which I split, could use some more work.
 * Plot section is gargantuan and a mess, includes some details which should be moved to the Production section.
 * Sections such as Production soundtrack etc should be maintained and expanded to include other aspects not just controversy etc.


 * It needs some cleanup. I'll make some time for it this week.  I have Highbeam now, I should be able to scare up some more references.  Needs some updating too.  Might just be good to add the plot in the form it passed FAC five years ago.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:55, 27 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm a bit delayed by other work, but hopefully this coming weekend.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:21, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Several years on and there are still quite a few serious problems here. This looks like it could be a candidate for WP:Featured Article Review. Midnightblueowl (talk) 20:27, 30 June 2017 (UTC)


 * One idea might be to revert a lot of it to where it was after FAC, or at least TFA. Likely be some dead links to clean up.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:55, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Films set in New York City
This categorization is not optimal. Borat is set in many places of the USA, and thus the category gives a wrong account of the film's content. Either we categorize it into all identifiable locations, or we use. --The Evil IP address (talk) 13:07, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Feel free to delete it or change it.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:21, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I thought about it again, it's probably best to put it into the categories of all identifiable locations. I'll rent it from my library soon and see if I can find some. --The Evil IP address (talk) 10:36, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

What is Art
It's understood that the film is made from humiliation of people. Especially poor people. Mr. Cohen has only one purpose: money. And to reach money he uses deepest subconscious matters like opressing and mocking the weak. This film is a complete assault on the innocent. We cant let someone to insult humanity under the name of "art" I offer a paragraph which explains this idiotic art sense. --Whatislife2012 (talk) 13:09, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Is it reliably sourced?--Wehwalt (talk) 14:20, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

"often referred to simply as Borat"
This little phrase isn't necessary, is it? It's obvious. Does anyone object to removing it? —Gendralman (talk) 00:30, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The reason it is there is that the article is under the name Borat, rather than the long spiel as it used to be. No strong objections to a removal if that's what people want.--Wehwalt (talk) 01:06, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Borat's van
The article claims that Borat crosses the US in an ice cream van. Surely it is an ex USPS van, hence being right-hand drive? --Ef80 (talk) 20:02, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Perhaps it was a postal van converted into an ice cream one. There's a scene in the film where Borat turns on the ice cream truck's music, so at least within the film it's being portrayed as one, even if it may have actually been a postal vehicle. --BDD (talk) 17:47, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

"Jewish" is not a nationality
Hope I'm not bringing up a point that was allready discussed. The sentence "That triggered discussions on different national identities (Kazakh, American, Polish, Romanian, Jewish, British)" isn't correct. "Jewish" is no nationality. 83.216.244.39 (talk) 22:31, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Like to start updating etc.
I've been letting this article drift a bit and I think there is a need to put things into order. Is there anyone who is willing to help me out here with this?--Wehwalt (talk) 06:49, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061201150918/http://www.ezaf.org/Borat.pdf to http://www.ezaf.org/Borat.pdf

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 * Added tag to http://film.guardian.co.uk/apnews/story/0,,-6465807,00.html
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