Talk:Boricua Popular Army/Suggestions for improvement

The purpouse of this subpage is exactly as stated in the title. Now, let them come. -  Ca ri bb e a  n ~ H. Q.  03:46, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Testing new SubPage
Hos does this work? Mercy11 (talk) 13:26, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Colony

 * (1)"They campaign for and support the independence of Puerto Rico from what they characterize as United States colonial rule."

I disagree with the qualification of "what they characterize as." This sounds like whoever wrote it is afraid to offend someone. Whom? Well, if we were in the 50s, 60s, maybe even the 70s, I would had said, it offends los Populares. But not today because the fact is that "few Puerto Ricans today" deny the fact that Puerto Rico is a colony (http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/catholicamerica/2009/06/wise_and_puerto_rican.html). All 3 major parties in PR (and they represent nearly 100% of all voters, and with an 70-80% voter turnout (See: http://electionresources.org/panorama/2009/01/sharp-decline-of-puerto-ricos-voter.html) in the last 30 years) "have publicly admitted that Puerto Rico is a colony.(http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/catholicamerica/2009/06/wise_and_puerto_rican.html)"

OK, there will always be someone who will say the Holocaust never occured, someone who will say his grandfather was George Washington, and some who would say that Puerto Rico is not a colony, but do they count? No, they don't: If there are, say, 5,000 Puerto Ricans (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Puerto_Rico#Plebiscite_results) who still believe PR is not a colony, does it matter? No, not any more than it matters that there are a few thousand (millions?) people who deny the Holocaust ever ocurred. The 5,000 or so (less than 1/2 of 1%) Populares that the editor (I am assuming here, granted) might be looking to accomodate don't count because there are already 1,556,000 Puerto Ricans who have say it is a colony.

The statement in the article should reflect reality, and the reality is that Macheteros are fighting for what the other 1,556,000 Puerto Ricans are also fighting for, namely, for "independence of Puerto Rico from United States colonial rule." Granted Macheteros do it using less popular methods, but their objective is, nevertheless, the same. Not just the BPA say it's a colony but the Penepes, populares, and independentistas they all say it's a colony. So I suggest this statement be change to simply say:

"They campaign for and support the independence of Puerto Rico from United States colonial rule."

Of course you might offend a few Congressmen, but who cares? they don't read wikipedia anyway. And if they do, it's time for them too to know what Puerto Ricans call it.

Terrorist Organization

 * (2)"The United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) describes the Boricua Popular Army as a terrorist organization."

This statement at least two problems:
 * (A) It is a time bomb (no pun intended).
 * (B) It is lobsided (read, missing wp:NPOV)

It is a time bomb (A) because the FBI is constantly adding and dropping terrorist organizations from its list. So the statement may -- very well -- not be true today. Louis J. Freeh's testimony is over 8 years old, and a number of things have happened since then to make it very probable that BPA is no longer considered a terrorist organization by them: (1) Filiberto was eliminated, (2) BPA has remained inactive for years except for a few statements released from time to time, (3)the FBI has not released any more recent comuniques labelling BPA a terrorist org.(4) others? So in that respect the statement may be totally incorrect already, today. This idea is further reinforced by the 12/7/06 La Prensa article ("Macheteros aun activos" http://www.laprensafl.com/site/articles.php?article_id=4836&osCsid=) in which it makes reference to a (more recent) November 30, 2006 FBI report where the FBI does not call Los Macheteros even an "extremist separatist group", but it calls it now an "active political pressure group". If the FBI categorized it as a terrorist organization, don't you think they would come out and just say so?

On the lobsided issue (B), the statement does not consider that, while the FBI considered them a terorist organization, others consider them freedom fighters (See: http://www.workers.org/2005/world/ojeda-1013/ See also: http://www.humanflowerproject.com/index.php/weblog/comments/el_machetero/) As a result of this one point, the statement should at best say:

"Some, like the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) describes the Boricua Popular Army as a terrorist organization, while others consider them freedom fighters."

Frankly, the Louis J. Freeh's testimony does not say anywhere that the FBI considers (or describes) BPA a "terrorist organization" to start with! Freeh does call them an "extremist Puerto Rican separatist group", but that's not the same as terrorist organization. He also says that the group "is suspected in each of these [Puerto Rico]attacks", but that's not the same as saying they did it. He even says that "Acts of terrorism continue to be perpetrated, however, by violent separatists in Puerto Rico," but, if he is referring to Macheteros, then he just contradicted himself because also says the group is just a "suspect". In other words, if I say that,

"Acts of terrorism continue to be perpetrated, however, by violent separatists [this could include -- just to make the point -- the PR Front Against American Imperialism, The September 23 Fighters, the Let's Get the F*&%$ Yankees Outtage Here Coalition, the FALN] in Puerto Rico." And I add that, "The extremist Puerto Rican separatist group Los Macheteros is suspected in each of these attacks," then I haven't said that Macheteros is a terrorist organization because I never called Macheteros "violent separatists" (which is the Freeh statement that makes the tie to terrorism), instead I called them "extremist separatists", and then the statement in the article is inaccurate.

Let me clarify, I personally think Macheteros are/were a terrorist org, but what counts in wikipedia is not what I think is truth, but what can be verified is fact wp:verifiability.

What is missing from the Freeh testimony is that he squarely come out and say Macheteros is a terrorist org, and that would make life easier for all of us, but he never comes out and says that, point blank and unambiguously, in his speeh. So we are attributing to him something in the article that he did not say.

In the alternative, a different citation needs be used, one that "directly supports the information as it is presented" (I took this from wp:or)

So, again, I suggest:

"Some, like the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) describes the Boricua Popular Army as a terrorist organization, while others consider them freedom fighters."

What is your take on these? Regards, Mercy11 (talk) 05:30, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Numbers claims

 * "Also known as Los Macheteros ("the Machete Wielders") and 'Puerto Rican Popular Army', their active membership was calculated by professor Michael González Cruz on his book Nacionalismo Revolucionario Puertorriqueño to be composed by approximately 5,700 members with an unknown number of supporters, sympathizers, collaborators and informants, with cells (usually consisting of between six and ten members) in the United States and other countries, although a report by The Economist places the number of active members at 1,100 excluding supporters."

The are a couple of things wrong with this statement:
 * (A) The citation does not say "with an unknown number of supporters, sympathizers, collaborators and informants", this was added by the wiki editor. This should be removed.
 * (B) The citation clearly says the 5,700 members was a a calculation from 10 years ago. The wiki article should say this.
 * (C) The article does not even mention the word "cells", let alone their composition ("6 to 10 members"). Nor does it say anything about "the United and other countries". This, too, was added by the editor, and should be removed.

I suggest the statement read like this:

"Also known as Los Macheteros ("the Machete Wielders") and 'Puerto Rican Popular Army', their 1999 active membership was calculated by professor Michael González Cruz in his book Nacionalismo Revolucionario Puertorriqueño to be composed by approximately 5,700 members, while a 2005 report by The Economist places the number of active members at 1,100 excluding supporters, both of these according to a La Prensa article."

Acts perpetrated

 * "The group has claimed responsibility for numerous bombings, attacks against the United States armed forces, and armed robberies since 1978, and was led primarily by former FBI Most Wanted Fugitive Filiberto Ojeda Ríos until his death in 2005."

Problems I see here:
 * (A) No citation at all. If you (the generic "you") are going to say the group claim responsibility for numerous (note, not a one, but numerous) where is the evidence/proof/reference/citation?
 * (B) "Claimed responsibility" is also a problem, becuase it fails to differentiate, as FBI Freeh said, the fact that some of them went unclaimed and they were just suspected of having duunit.
 * (C)Numerous armed robberies since 1978. Hummm, I have only heard of one - the 1983 Wells Fargo robbery. Where are the other numerous ones?

I would reword it to say:

"The group has claimed responsibility for, or been suspected of, bomb attacks, attacks against US armed forces, and one high-profile armed robbery in 1983. The group was led primarily by former FBI Most Wanted Fugitive Filiberto Ojeda Ríos until his death in 2005."

Regards, Mercy11 (talk) 22:33, 20 November 2009 (UTC)