Talk:Born Again (The Notorious B.I.G. album)

Fair use rationale for Image:Notoriousbi bornagain 101b.jpg
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Fair use rationale for Image:Notoriousbi bornagain 101b.jpg
Image:Notoriousbi bornagain 101b.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 23:37, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Born again big album.jpg
Image:Born again big album.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 07:56, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Biggie Smalls and Big Willie?
''Party & Bullshit - A Remix of the 1993 song. It had a new beat and Faith Evans singing the chorus and also featured Will Smith''

Is this legit? B.I.G. is a hardcore rapper; Will Smith is clean and has never cursed (except "You Saw My Blinker"). Furthermore, songs that Will did with major recording rap artists never get released to air. Confirm that it exists - an audio snippet would be nice. ElMeroEse (talk) 22:51, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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What kind of album is this? Infobox parameter "type"
Is this a remix? A compilation? A studio album? We have to pick something from the list at Template:Infobox_album. Not "posthumous album" because that's not one of the choices. It looks to me like "studio" and "other" are the only two viable choices.

I would say it's mostly a studio album because the main vocals were recorded in a studio but then beats and stuff were added by others later, in a studio environment. The argument for "other" is that it consists of songs from different sessions that were not intended to be on the same album together, and not recorded during sessions aimed at releasing the album, because the album Born Again was not conceived by the artist. This is in contrast to the previous posthumous album which was recorded by the artist during studio sessions aimed explicitly at creating the album Life After Death, making that album much more of a cohesive project, a true studio album. Binksternet (talk) 01:48, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I would agree that "posthumous album" is not a viable option. Although there is a good argument for "studio" or "other", I am siding more with "studio" because, whether it was conceived by Biggie or not, it was still created in a studio. Just to clarify for others, his premature demise is irrelevant to what type of album this is, in Wikipedia standards., to save time, what is your opinion of Duets: The Final Chapter? Obviously "posthumous" cannot be retained. TheGracefulSlick (talk) 02:09, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Duets is much more of a compilation–slash–studio thing because some previously published old material was used along with unreleased old stuff combined with new stuff. So it's a mish-mash. I would call it "other". Binksternet (talk) 02:14, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Pinging to the discussion since he/she more than likely will want an explanation for the changes.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 02:09, 2 June 2017 (UTC)


 * I feel we really can't go wrong with "Studio" or "Other" (due to valid arguments stated above). But of the two, I'm leaning more towards "Other" - as mentioned "it consists of songs from different sessions that were not intended to be on the same album together, and not recorded during sessions aimed at releasing the album". --Blastmaster11 (talk) 16:24, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

It's definitely a studio, not a compilation. Its how its always been sorted. For rappers, majority of posthumous albums end up this way, and in the case of XXXTentacion, 2Pac, etc., they've always been marked as studio albums, (with the exception of if it features previously released material remixed,) and from what I see, all the material on here wasn't released at the time. Other music websites also seem to sort Born Again and Duets as studio albums and not with the other compilations, and they're marked studio albums on Biggie's page and discography page.

So yeah I think we should just mark this as a studio album. - K-popguardian (talk) 23:49, 15 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Looking back; I wholeheartedly agree with Binksternet "it consists of songs from different sessions that were not intended to be on the same album together, and not recorded during sessions aimed at releasing the album". This isn't a "studio" album in the sense that Ready to Die or Life After Death are. --Blastmaster11 (talk) 17:05, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

So would Bad Vibes Forever by XXXTentacion be a compilation? Or TIM by Avicii? Or Lovelines by The Carpenters? - K-popguardian (talk) 16:29, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * XXXTentacion actually worked on Bad Vibes Forever and Avicii actually worked on TIM; prior to their deaths. Richard Carpenter (one out of the two Carpenters) actually put the Lovelines project together. BIG had absolutely nothing to do with the Born Again project. It was literally compiled from previous released BIG verses (taken from already existing songs of his, earlier guest verses he did for other artist's songs, and radio freestyles). With all of this said, I don't see anything wrong with "compilation album" or "other" in the infobox and lead for Born Again. --Blastmaster11 (talk) 16:26, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Binksternet, All rappers and producers on this album created their acapellas and beats especially for this album between 1998 and 1999 (except for the song "Who Shot Ya?" which was released in 1995 and appears here as a bonus track at the end of the album). Except for Biggie's vocals, which were recorded between 1993 and 1996 (according to Biggie's acapellas used on this album from early «Niggas» (1993) to late «Long Kiss Goodnight» (1996)). There are album press releases, album reviews and certifications that prove this is the second posthumous album (not a compilation!). Note the type of album on the official album poster: The New Album - http://www.hiphopnostalgia.com/2020/12/the-notorious-big-born-again-december-7.html. And note the album type on the second sheet of the press release: Notorious B.I.G.'s second posthumous album, Born Again, is no memorial or tribute, it is a celebration of life. (there is no word "compilation"!)

In addition, there are professional reviews of this album from 1999, where it's listed as an album (and not as a compilation!):
 * 1 - Billboard December 1999: https://books.google.com/books?id=9w0EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA75#v=onepage&q&f=false. Quote: And "Born Again", the second posthumous Notorious B.I.G. album was released Dec. 7 (there is no word "compilation"!)
 * 2 - Entertainment Weekly January 10, 2000: https://ew.com/article/2000/01/10/born-again/. Quote: ”Born Again,” the ”new” album by the Notorious B.I.G., who was gunned down in 1997, is a wonder of posthumous record-making (there is no word "compilation"!)
 * 3 - Rolling Stone Jan 20, 2000: https://web.archive.org/web/20071014021535/http://rollingstone.com/artists/notoriousbig/albums/album/111870/review/6067925/born_again. Quote: Born Again, the Notorious B.I.G.'s third album (after 1994's Ready to Die and 1997's Life After Death), is the product of a long-awaited vault-opening. (there is no word "compilation"!)
 * 4 - Los Angeles Times DEC. 10, 1999: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-dec-10-ca-42378-story.html. Quote: True, there are more guest artists than there are songs on the second posthumous B.I.G. album (there is no word "compilation"!)

You can also look at the album certificates where the release is marked as an album (and not as a compilation!): RIAA (https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=default-award&ar=Notorious+B.I.G.&ti=Born+Again#search_section - Format: Album) & BPI (https://www.bpi.co.uk/brit-certified/ - Format: Album)

So I have given you enough evidence and I believe that you will correct the album description in the preamble (and infobox type): Born Again is the second posthumous studio album by American rapper the Notorious B.I.G., released by Bad Boy Records and Arista Records on December 7, 1999. - with all due respect, Felix Montana (talk) 17:46, 1 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Sounds like you want to change from infobox album type "compilation" to something else. What else? The list of choices doesn't include "posthumous". Binksternet (talk) 18:03, 1 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Binksternet, well, according to available sources (press kit, album reviews and certifications) there's no word like "Compilation" or "Remix". For example Rolling Stone marked it release like third album (after Ready to Die and Life After Death) or press kit, Billboard and Los Angeles Times marked it like the second posthumous album. It should be to specify "Studio" as in the first posthumous album (Life After Death) - with all due respect, Felix Montana (talk) 18:32, 1 January 2021 (UTC)