Talk:Borsuk (infantry fighting vehicle)

Does additional armor which leads to a weight of 40 tons really exist?
https://mezha.media/en/2022/06/16/polish-bmp-borsuk-which-should-replace-the-soviet-bmp-1/

"An interesting feature of the BMP is modular armor, which can be used depending on the purpose of the car. The lightest version of the BMP weighing 25 tons is amphibious, the heaviest armored almost like a light tank weighs as much as 40 tons."

Sources like military-today also list "Weight (with add-on armor) ~ 40 t", although i think that 720 hp are not enough to power a 40 ton vehicle. FSbiran (talk) 13:48, 23 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Not that I know of, or anyone that can be considered a source. There were and are trials of the Borsuk with add-on armor, for example recently the Borsuk was shown with an add-on plate on the front , but since the vehicle is still amphibious with that plate, it's speculated that the goal now is to test how much armor can Borsuk take without loosing the amphibious capability.
 * I really don't know where these pages like the military-today got this information. It might have appeared somewhere a long time ago but I highly doubt it's true, especially that the maximum possible weight of the Borsuk is speculated to be around 35 tonnes, maybe slightly above, but definitely under 40 tonnes. And that's due to the suspension limitations so you can't go higher than that without either replacing or substantially modifying the suspension units.
 * Also, from what I know military-today isn't the most reliable source, and their page about Borsuk is outdated and quite possibly poorly sourced - for example the data table includes height of the Borsuk, and it did at the time when its height was unknown. Olekz17 (talk) 11:42, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Unit cost estimate
I saw someone add unit cost into the table based on the Defence24 article that estimated the value of the March 28 framework agreement at about 10 billion dollars, and I feel like I have to explain why that kind of estimates are very inaccurate with regards to not widely used and especially new vehicles (the more contracts there are for a vehicle, the more accurate such estimates are) and shouldn't really be made in that case (yes, I'll remove that cost estimate).

There is a couple of reasons why estimates like this are inaccurate, especially this particular one. All of them can be summarized by saying that this is a framework agreement, not a contract for an X amount of vehicles of one type. It means that the 10 billion dollars price includes not just the procurement of 1400 vehicles, but rather:

- setting up the production line (since it's the first contract, it has to be paid),

- procurement of around 1000 IFVs,

- development (these variants don't exist yet) and procurement of around 400 auxiliary vehicles in at least 5 different variants. Olekz17 (talk) 14:49, 27 April 2023 (UTC)