Talk:Bosnia and Herzegovina/Image discussion Bih 1991.jpg

Where did you get this, Ceha? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:06, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Found it on the net. It should show ethnical structure of BiH in 1991, it is not much different from 1981 ethnical map and it should also be posible to fint it on the libraries concering 1991 BiH Census. What do you think is wrong with it? Ceha (talk) 23:48, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Is this map modified?
I think so. It's is obviously modified and it's not accurate. Follow this link for original version of this map.. And there is another ethnic map of Bosnia in 1991. Compare differences --Duxi (talk) 18:42, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Modified for sure
This map is for sure a cheap copy of the original 1981 map of the University of Begrade's Geography department. It is clearly obvious. The line goes straight through at the same place where it does in the 1981 map, as it is folded in the book. I have the book, and that page is folded. We can see this fold in 1981 and this 1991 one. We can also notice that part of it has been cut off, the border to be precise. Now that we see that it is fake, we can actually move on to question other things. What is going is a typical example of how to lie with maps. I suppose that the person who made this read Mark Monmonier's book, how to lie with maps. We can pinpoint some stuff here, that being that the number of croats has been expanded on this map, as well as bosniaks. Well, it just so happens that this is done in very peculiar ways. There are more croats in places which croats claim. Therefore I think it is fair to say that this is a product of Croat propaganda. I have the original map from 1991, and it has only one author, not four like in 1981. This map is here for specific reasons, to lie. No offense intended to anyone, but cartography is very important. I have uncovered the fraud behind the false map of the Republic of Serbian Krajina, which showed more serbs than there is. In that one too people have abused these maps of the university of belgrade. I propose that this gets deleted. I do not know how to upload my map, for it is part of a book. Is it therefore legal for me to upload it? Any advice please? (LAz17 (talk) 23:38, 7 November 2008 (UTC)).


 * Laz, you are oppening an old discussion. Which never ended as you can see at and . If you have a scanned image of that map, put it on the commons, and if it is correct next step would be to update this image. After a conformitation from discussion ofcourse.
 * --Čeha (razgovor) 00:43, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * This map is determined to be a fraud and has no place in any wikipedia article. Thanks for your cooperation. Here is the real one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bosnia1991ethnic.jpg (LAz17 (talk) 19:16, 9 November 2008 (UTC)).
 * I agree. Due to errors on this map it should be deleted. However Laz, try to upload your map in a higher resolution. Some of settlemens are not visible, inter-municipal borders are somewhat murky and contrast is to high. I would like to make a color version of it, as in but just with correct data. --Čeha (razgovor) 09:23, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Color map will be discussed on the color map page. As for this map, the real version that I have in real life is very light, unlike the versions of 1981. Therefore it is hard to see some differences. I put the contrast more so that there would be more clear differences so that people can know who is where better. I find very troubles at how you defend this map, when it is clearly obvious that there are so many mistakes, so very many. This is in fact a propaganda map. Now that we have determined that it should be deleted, lets get onto that. For requests of better images of the 1991 map, it is best to do it on the page of the 1991 map, not this one that is going to be deleted. (LAz17 (talk) 22:30, 15 November 2008 (UTC)).
 * Which map do I defend? Your english is sometimes very hard to understand (or my comprehenshion is wrong). As for BiH_1991.jpg, this is the discussion page, I don't see anything similar to your claimes. As for BiH_1991_colors.jpg there is another discussion on it's discussion pages . I don't understand. No paranoja :)   are god pages to read. You should try to look it up...


 * --Čeha (razgovor) 01:47, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You give me this thing for neutral point of view, yet people tell you of the vast problems of the 1991fraud map. Despite this you claim that it is easy to fix these problems and simply deny anybody's criticism of the map as being something that can easily be fixed. Well no, it can not be easily fixed. The map is a clear propaganda map which you have been promoting. With clear reasons as to why it should be deleted... you ignored it. You are the one that is biased. You have banned in the past I believe, for a temporary time, due to nationalism regarding croatians in bosnia. Therefore I have concluded that you are a nationalist who uses maps in order to promote your biased point of view. People have given you several good reasons that prove that this map is a fake and an edit of the 1981 map - the fold is the clearest most obvious reason as to why/how it is a fraud. You continually support this map until I put up the real one. You do this with nationalist agenda, wanting to show that there were more croats in herceg bosna and posavina. That is my problem, that this is a disgrace and that your motives behind things are not neutral, but very biased. Ignoring criticism on this map is such proof. (LAz17 (talk) 03:06, 16 November 2008 (UTC)).
 * Your POV is clearly shown here. Also, please do not lie. I was never baned for the reasons of POV or giving false data. If your english is so bad that you can not comprehend and read wikipedia articles than you don't belong on this wikipedia.
 * As for this map, my god, it was I who puted information on the map that it could have inaccuracies, and welcomed your fixing it. What ignoring criticism? What nationalistic agenda? Have you even read the bias article that I've given to you?
 * Wikipedia is not a place for personal attack's and if you do not stop with your behaviour, you'll be reported to administrators. Also try to read more carefully articles and improve your english so you will not come into position of lying in the future.
 * --Čeha (razgovor) 15:50, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, I found this, which is evidence, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ceha#Blocked . But anyways, I think that events are progressing well. It was put that there could be errors, but you did absolutely nothing to go about fixing them when someone told you what errors and where. The reason why is because it is impossible to fix such a map that has no borders whatsoever, no real areas. There is a difference between talk and action. Sure, wikipedia is not a place for personal actions, but there has been too much POV against me and some things that I am involved with. But don't worry, so far I have been correct. Hopefully this trend will continue. Bad maps got deleted. A couple more are getting ready to go. Defend them all you want, fact remains they're bad, so they go. No POV, just reality. (76.29.100.8 (talk) 06:06, 20 November 2008 (UTC)). - ah sorry, it was me. (LAz17 (talk) 06:08, 20 November 2008 (UTC)).
 * Read that again. Those there write anything about NPOV or nationalistic views? Do you even know what is 3R rule?
 * Read something about basic wikipedia rules before you make another false accusation again. I'm not a administrator nor I can delete some map. If I find an error I can made info on it and warn user, or try to cooperate with somebody to fix the error.
 * As for your ego trps, I'm really sorry but that is your own problem, don't trouble me with it.
 * --Čeha (razgovor) 15:02, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Comments
Okay guys, this is quite confused now.

Can we first clarify how many such maps we have now, and what their relations are?


 * Image:Bosnia1991ethnic.jpg (scanned from a print publication, agreed to be authentic)
 * Image:Bosnia-ethnic-map.jpg (similar to #1, but from 1981)
 * Image:Bih 1991.jpg (unknown source)
 * Image:Bih 1991 colors.JPG (partly re-drawn on the basis of #3)
 * 1) WWW version from 1981?
 * Image:BiHSimplifiedEthnic1991.gif (added, see below)
 * Image:Bih_Stan_1991.GIF Another copy of bad map 1991, no.3
 * Image:BH1991.jpg A correct version of the 1991 map, similar to no.1, but not copyrighted.
 * 1) WWW national geographic map for 1991, similar to no.1 and no.8 - published in May 1996 issue
 * Image:BH1991ethnic.jpg Copyrighted and correct version, based off of map 8.
 * Image:Nationalgeoraphicmapbosnia1991.jpg uploaded onto wiki because Ceha does not trust the website that uploaded map9... I scanned this to prove that it is real and legitimate, and that his maps are lies/frauds that portray POV and biased data, as they are propaganda maps. -LAz17
 * Image:Bosnia1991ethnic2.jpgMap 1 brought back temporarily, to resolve the issue... delete after the dispute is done. -LAz17
 * 1) http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq314/LAzWikiDude/nationalgeoraphicmapbosnia1991.jpg National Geographic map from scan is back, but I uploaded it this time on another site. - LAz17
 * 2) http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq314/LAzWikiDude/bosnia1991ethnic2.jpg 1991 map again - LAz17

My questions and remarks:


 * What's the copyright status of these maps? Some of the files have been marked as "public domain", why? Is there any reason to think they aren't copyrighted? In that case, we'll have to delete them, all.
 * Is it agreed, at this point, that #3 is somehow inaccurate, or are we dealing just with different versions from different sources? If there was "falsification", who manipulated it and how?
 * Please don't throw around accusations of "fraud". There is no reason to believe at this point that any wikipedian intentionally introduced false information with any of these maps.
 * Can somebody inform me, in two or three sentences, what the alleged inaccuracies in this map are, and what POV they are supposedly designed to be "propaganda" for? Is one ethnicity somehow underrepresented or what? Which, and where?
 * To whoever wants to propose these for deletion: please follow the full nomination process, including the listing at WP:IFD. I've removed a few deletion tags where this apparently wasn't done. But maybe it's better to first discuss things here anyway, and if there turns out to be a copyright issue we can simply agree to delete here.

Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:45, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your questions.

The 1981 map is from http://www.rastko.org.yu/istorija/srbi-balkan/spasovski-zivkovic-stepic-bosnia.html, a book published by the University of Belgrade's Geography department. It has since been released online and can be found on that site there. The 1991 map is from another book, but this book is not all online for free.

Map number 3 was falsificated by editing the image of map 2. We can see that they just cut off what year it was, and cut off a few other things. We can also notice that there is the exact same fold in the map that we can notice in the 1981 map. It is clearly the same map just edited. We can see that there are two things at play in this map. Showing that there are less serbs in many places in the map, showing that there are more bosniaks in serbian places, and showing that there are more croats in places that the croats have territorial claims upon. We can notice how there are far more croats in settlements/census tracts in what was herceg-bosnia and towards the central part, in the southwest, and in the north/northeast, a region called posavina. This map is a propaganda map aimed at showing that there are more croatians in the croat claimed lands, more bosniaks in the serb claimed land, and less serbs in general. It was probably made by a croatian nationalist. This is not the first time that nationalist based maps have been used for ill purposes. I have uncovered a fraud map of croatia, which was showing that there were more serbs in croatia than there really were, also a map that was edited, but originally created by the belgrade university. They have good maps, and look good especially if edited for certain a certain purpose. My concern is that we will again see people making a fraud of the 1991 map that I uploaded, and the 1981. The 1991 is easier to fraud if it is in good condition, because it does not have that fold in the page. (LAz17 (talk) 19:13, 16 November 2008 (UTC)).

The 1991 map might be copywritted. That is not my concern. My concern is that the 1991 bad ones are deleted and never to show up again. Let all of them be deleted, as long as the 1991 bad ones are gone forever. Let the 1981 go too, though it is available online and has been for years. This is what we call "inat", which means regardless of the consequences... I do not care about the consequences as long as these bad maps be removed. That is my inat. So sure, delete them all if needbe, but we must not have "bad maps" floating around, because they spread wrong information and thus wrong conclusions. But the 1981 is pretty legitimate I believe. So I suppose that it's okay to keep the 1981 one and delete the other three. (LAz17 (talk) 19:40, 16 November 2008 (UTC)).


 * Okay, thanks for the explanation. Yes, I think I'd agree there are indications that #3 was electronically edited on the basis of the same file as #2, not scanned afresh from a different version of the print source. Fut.Perf. ☼ 00:14, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Therefore 3 and 4 should be deleted... is this correct? What about the real 1991 one? It is perhaps up for deletion to? We do not know what copywrite status it has. I am okay with deleting it as long as the wrong ones go away first. (LAz17 (talk) 01:10, 17 November 2008 (UTC)).


 * I now notice there's also Image:BiHSimplifiedEthnic1991.gif, based on this one according to its description. That one should be okay copyright-wise, but can somebody check its correctness? Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:45, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * As Laz said, 1981 map (Bosnia-ethnic-map.jpg) is good sourced map. Map Bosnia-ethnic-map.jpg is also a good map, which he puted on the net and I did not thought there are some copryth isues (as I did not have anything with it I don't know anything on it's copywright status). Image Bih 1991.jpg is map with errors (list of possible errors was on it's info page, and I thought that copywright status is GNU) and Image Bih 1991 colors.JPG is colored previous map to make more accent on ethnic's without municipal lines. Problem was in Laz17 fraud and accusation atitude.

In all of discusion I tried to cooperate in discussion and fix some problems (inaccuracies on the map). Bih 1991.jpg is inacurate and it should have been deleted. Image Bih 1991 colors.JPG could have been fixed (if Laz17's map Bosnia1991ethnic.jpg has good copywrite and can be listed as a source for changes). That' would be that. Image BiHSimplifiedEthnic1991.gif also has some errors (similar as Image Bih 1991.jpg) I'll try to correct those, but I'll would like to know what is the status of Laz17's copywright status, and can it be used as source from changes. --Čeha (razgovor) 22:18, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

This fifth map, Image:BiHSimplifiedEthnic1991.gif, is based off the bad 1991 map. It should be deleted as soon as possible too. As for reproducing the 1991 original belgrade map - there is absolutely no need to do it. The only time that settlement borders get tkaen out is when too big of an area is represented, as was the case when belgrade univeristy mapped the entire yugoslavia - as can be seen here - http://www.rastko.org.yu/istorija/srbi-balkan/spasovski-kicosev-zivkovic-sfry.html. But even there the municipal boundaries remain. There is abolustley no reason to delete the municipal boundaries, and if we are dealing with ONLY bosnia and herzegovina, then there is no reason to take out the settlement borders. I am strongly against the reproduction of these belgrade maps. They were made by professionals and we do not need these useless reproductions. (LAz17 (talk) 23:00, 17 November 2008 (UTC)).

Another bad map has been found. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bih_Stan_1991.GIF It should also be deleted. (LAz17 (talk) 17:34, 18 November 2008 (UTC)).
 * I am strongly against use of maps from Internet library of Serbian cultury (http://www.rastko.org.yu/istorija/srbi-balkan/spasovski-kicosev-zivkovic-sfry.html). Second problem is with wikipedia reliable sources rules. In my thinking it is not possible to use books published on Serbian university about Serbs of Bosnia during Bosnia-Serbia war ?
 * Fut.Perf. we are having other of Bosnian maps which are having copyright problem, but they are on commons. For example I will user this. Copyright status is very clearly writen. Map is published by company Svjetlost from Sarajevo for use in History schoolbooks. In my thinking map must be deleted.
 * Reason for my comming to this discussion are your comments on user:Kubura talk page which is on my watch list (Kubura is knowing that)--Rjecina (talk) 20:59, 18 November 2008 (UTC)


 * These maps are not from the serbian cultural library. Quite the opposite, it is that website that has shown the book that was published from Belgrade University. Therefore if you are against those maps, then you are against the academia of the Geography department of belgrade univeristy - and I am sure that they are more qualified than you are when it comes to those maps. The Belgrade University maps are perfectly fine as they directly portray data from the census. They are not propaganda maps; in fact I have gotten serbian propaganda maps deleted. The fact is that serbian propaganda maps are made from these balgrade maps, just like Ceha's propaganda maps were also made from these. Hence both croat and serbian nationalists are not happy with these belgrade maps, and both nationalists will want to show different onces. Here is a common example of the serbian propaganda map - http://www.srpskapolitika.com/Meni-1-V/Mape-karte/velike-mape/SRJ-3.jpg - this map shows an excess of serbs in bosnia, croatia and in kosovo. Therefore this map is not good, and it is such plagiarized maps that are problematic. There is absolutely no problem with the original belgrade maps. But of course, croat and bosniak nationalists feel threatened when people can see that there were substantial populations of serbs in their countries. That should be our concern, if they do not like the truth to be known. People can make conclusions, such as where are those people now and why are they not where they were. It is these questions that you do not want people asking, and this is why you are in support of deleting these maps. It is just like a dozen of croats were strongly in support of expunging data for the former republic of serbian krajina - saying that information about this entity should not exist because the entity was bad - where you guys get your logic I really do not know. (LAz17 (talk) 22:32, 18 November 2008 (UTC)).
 * Rastko project is a greater serbian site. As for SANU and similar, their memorandum and similar things are from warmangering and are on of the stuff which started the war (I'm not going further into this discussion). Laz I ask you one more time to forgot your serbian bias (and whatever you've got) and try to cooporate. That last map has no copyright problems as I made it. If you have some map (or a source) to which I could fix errors on it, I call upon you to give it, if not it is not in your power to delete contributions of other users. Again I ask you not to behave as a troll.

--Čeha (razgovor) 22:53, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Map 6 and 7 are reproductions of fraud map3. Therefore they have to go. I have uploaded the 1991 original map. The book by the university of belgrade is a geographic book that was uploaded on the site. Those maps there are reality that serbian nationalists are not happy with and want to show that there is even more serbs than there are on those maps. The Belgrade maps are perfectly legitimate, unlike your fraud map and your subsequent maps that are based off of your fraud map. My 1991 map was proof of how awful your fraud maps are, but it got deleted. Should I upload in order to have your 6 and 7 be expunged from wikipedia? (LAz17 (talk) 23:01, 18 November 2008 (UTC)).
 * In my thinking this problem is solved :)
 * Office of the High Representative and the EU special representative site are having very good maps. Because you both have edited maps earlier I do not see problem in creating new map and adding colors to towns (and other administrative units) like on map Ethnic composition before the war in BiH ? --Rjecina (talk) 01:14, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You have got to be kidding - if you are talking about deleting the 1981 map. That map there is of the municipalities, and we already have such a map if not a few on wikipedia. The Belgrade maps show census track or settlements, so they go in beyond the municipality level. It's like with the Canadian election maps of 2008 - one shows the winners in provinces and one shows the winners in districts. Similarly we need these two here, where one shows the population at the smaller units and one at the larger units. This is very simple to understand and I am worried why you are bringing this up. Or perhaps there is some misunderstanding. If you mean a map for the municipalities for 1991, then we already have it. But the 1981 settlement map must stay. We could use a 1981 municipality map too come to think of it. (LAz17 (talk) 05:16, 19 November 2008 (UTC))

I do not speak about 1981 map. In earlier discussion comments are that wikipedia is without good 1991 map of Bosnia and Herzegovina from reliable source ? My proposition will solve that problem.

About Rastko map for 1981 my only comment is that this map will be deleted on 25 November. To tell you truth I can't understand why users from Serbia are demanding that we use in articles about Bosnia and Herzegovina and Yugoslav Wars demography maps from 1981 and not from 1991 ?--Rjecina (talk) 05:45, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * There is no Rastko map. The Rastko orgnaization never made any maps. We are dealing with University of Belgrade's Geography department maps and Ceha's problematic ones. You came too late to see the 1991 map from the good source, which was also from University of Belgrade but not online anywhere. I uploaded it and it was deleted. We have a 1991 map already, which is here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ethnic_relations_1991.GIF . I have no idea where you get the idea that the 1981 map should be deleted, for it is perfectly okay and is used in the article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_demographics_of_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina . (LAz17 (talk) 19:16, 19 November 2008 (UTC)).
 * Your concern about why it might be used in the war thing is a plausible concern. I was purging some pages of Ceha's fraud map which got deleted. Anyways, I replaced one of them with the 1981 by mistake. That is the only reason why that map showed up in the main bosnia and herzegovina page under the war. I moved it to the appropriate location, to the 1945 to 1981 place. (LAz17 (talk) 19:20, 19 November 2008 (UTC)).
 * Good news. I found a correct map, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BH1991.jpg (LAz17 (talk) 19:28, 19 November 2008 (UTC)).


 * BH1991.jpg is a false map made by originaly made (and sourced) by banned user PaxEquilibrium. That map and 1991.png map should both be deleted as soon as possible.
 * Moreover, Laz, I made map. And for fraud and similar accusations, I'm affraid I can not help you. If you have something to contribute to this discussion (like valid source from which I can fix errors on mentioned map) you can help me and cooporate with me, else I'm not going waste my precious time with you. So long.

--Čeha (razgovor) 19:38, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * BH1991 is an accurate map, and it shows the same results as the official 1991 belgrade map. Therefore that map is correct. It should not matter who made it or why, but it is correct - that is what matters. I have the correct source and I compared it, and it is legitimate. therefore this Image:BH1991.jpg should be used along with the municipality level map. I however do not see why we need to mention the municipality map, for that authenticity is easily verifiable. This topic is for the map that shows settlement data, which goes in beyond the municipalities. This Image:BH1991.jpg should be used. (LAz17 (talk) 01:02, 20 November 2008 (UTC)).
 * I'd upload the 1991 belgrade to confirm that this one is accurate, but it got deleted once, so there is no reason to upload it again. We now need to get rid of your maps which were based on your bad map 1991 that was deleted. Puno pozdrava/many regards. (LAz17 (talk) 01:04, 20 November 2008 (UTC)).
 * No it is not. It is unsourced, which is the prime reason why it should be deleted. Second reason is that it is inaccurate. Also settlments lines are systematicly shown as serbian territories, and in difference between Croats and Bosniaks as Bosniak one, which shows clear bias. Third reason is that it was made by banned user, which just to itself should be enough. Laz this map differs even from your map (look eastern Bosnia). Was your map false also? :::--Čeha (razgovor) 08:09, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Your maps are unsourced as well. The map is totally accurate. There is no bias to that map in my opinion. It looks very much like the map that I had from 1991 which was agreed to be accurate. However, all of your maps are based upon that fraud 1991 map, which shows more croats in herceg bosna/posavina and more bosniaks in eastern bosnia and cazinkrajina. Your map was determined to be bad, and so it was deleted. Furthermore, your other maps are based off of that one miserable one that you had which was deleted. It need not matter who made the map. The user was banned for other reasons. His map is far more accurate than any of your maps. But of course, when your goal is to show that there are more croats, that always being your only goal, then how could you accept this map? It's always wrong for you. You can't even accept the fact that your two maps were deleted and thus your other ones based off of those should go as well. Don't worry, they will go, you like it or not. It's about time that POV and propaganda went out of wikipedia's maps. (LAz17 (talk) 14:53, 20 November 2008 (UTC))
 * National Geographic pubilshed a very similar map in 1996, that is about Bosnia for 1991. You can see it here, http://srpska-mreza.com/MAPS/Ethnic-groups/map-NatGeogr-1996.html - granted that this site srpska mreza might not be one from where we should get direct data, but we can see that they put national geographic's map up on their site. Therefore are we going to condemn national geographic, an accredited institution/magazine? The map which you speak of being bad is based off of this national geographic one, in my opinion. It's high time that you got into reality and left your nationalism and POV when it comes to maps. We can clearly see the issue in Posavina, Eastern Bosnia, and Herceg Bosna. The conclusion is that your maps are bad and that we have others which are correct and thus need to replace yours. (LAz17 (talk) 14:59, 20 November 2008 (UTC)).
 * Do you know how to tell what is the source of the map? It clearly says on it's page. Do read it somethimes.
 * That is a map from srpska-mreza and not national geographic. Please don't imagine things.
 * --Čeha (razgovor) 15:11, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I own a copy of that 1996 national geographic. It is the exact same map. Srpska mreza may interpret it in various ways, but the fact is that they are showing that map FROM the National Geographic. They had a whole section in that 1996 issue, with a few maps of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Off the top of my head I remember that they also had stuff in that issue about Toronto - that waso n the cover of that magazine. If you can not believe that, I'll scan several copies to prove that to you. Well I guess this here proves that you are most definitely a POV nationalist. (LAz17 (talk) 17:00, 20 November 2008 (UTC)).
 * And here it is from national geographic's own site, taht they did publish such an issue - http://www.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/kosovo/9606.html - now all I need to do is to upload some photos or scans of the 1996 map that is uploaded onto srpska mreza, if the administrator wants that to be done. You can buy that 1996 national geographic on ebay too ya know. I'd recomend you do that, and then write to national geographic that they are biased. They are pretty good really. Your sources are bad, and I know that it is hard to face the reality, but trust me, it's not so bad to do this. (LAz17 (talk) 17:04, 20 November 2008 (UTC)).
 * Croat nationalists tried to delete the map8 already. It has been decided that map8 will stay. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Image:Bih_Stan_1991.GIF (LAz17 (talk) 18:08, 20 November 2008 (UTC)).
 * No it haven't. Laz, is your english realy so bad? That is a request to delete the right picture...
 * 'Prljava belosvetska zavera', no? Laz, please make up your mind about sub-municipal borders or you'll just change it when it suits you?
 * As for National geographic, please give me a valid source on wich I can check it out. I'm not going to spend money on it, and I obviously don't trust you.
 * --Čeha (razgovor) 23:06, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I feel that submunicipal borders are important, but alas I have come to the conclusion that there is no non-university of Belgrade map that has them. Therefore we are faced with having to comply with these no-borders, as it seems that people do not have these settlement borders. So therefore we have to deal with what we have. We currently have correct and incorrect maps up. We deleted some incorrect ones and need to get rid o the remaining ones that were based off of the already deleted ones. (LAz17 (talk) 01:14, 21 November 2008 (UTC)).
 * Map 8 is very similar to the national geographic map, and it is very similar to the accurate belgrade map no.1 which was agreed to be authentic. your maps however, maps 4, 6, and 7 are all based off of map 3 which was determined to be wrong. Map 4 was deleted, and now the correct procedure is to remove these other wrong maps, that being maps 6 and 7. For some reason you are acting as if you did not see map no.1 off of which it is totally apparent the maps are wrong.
 * As for the national geographic, you may trust me on it. However, you say you do not. So what do you suggest? I can upload pictures from this national geographic. I have the actual copy of that national geographic. You will see that it is the same as the file that is map9. (LAz17 (talk) 01:32, 21 November 2008 (UTC)).
 * Map 10 uploaded. It looks good, but I would prefer if someone uploaded it OVER map 9. I was not able to, but here it is... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BH1991ethnic.jpg (LAz17 (talk) 01:47, 21 November 2008 (UTC)).
 * Map 10 has serious copywrite issues (some of them are similar to those on which got deleted). Laz17 you can not just download other map and put it on other name. You still haven't given checkable sources for eather of the maps.
 * --Čeha (razgovor) 08:32, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I have a natinoal geographic source. I will take a photo today to prove that to you. But technically you could again say that this is false, couldn't you? You clearly do not want to accept okay sources. Instead you like your maps that are made because of bad sources. Your maps were not deleted because of copyright status, they were deleted because they were frauds that portray wrong information. (LAz17 (talk) 16:21, 21 November 2008 (UTC)).

Čeha in my thinking you are making 1 mistake. For Wikipedia it is not important how map is used but only if it is created on real document. In my thinking Belgrade University map is created on real documents from 1981. Maybe they have added few misleading informations (in your thinking), but it is created on real documents ! Only possibility for deleting are copyright problems and orphan map. I do not see problems in creating situation of orphan map when we delete this map from all War articles. Only place where it is possible to use this map is article about Serbs in Bosnia and Herzegovina (this is my advice to Laz17 ).

My advice to Čeha is to ask Office of the High Representative if we can use map in question (map of 1991) on wikipedia. If they say yes this map will be used in all articles about Bosnian situation in 1991-92, because of reliability rules. Who knows maybe we will use this map near to national geographic map of setlements in 1991 (wiki version of this map) because wikipedia is always looking for compromises, but this will be solved by further discussions on talk page of articles.

If you 2 want to continue this discussion on commons (question on talk page) there is need for creation of commons account and then start discussion about deleting on commons. When picture/map is deleted on commons it will be deleted on wikipedia.--Rjecina (talk) 15:52, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Map 3 and 4 have been deleted. Ceha's maps are almost identical to those. Therefore why does he insist on them staying? They have been determined to be wrong. Also, do you know if it is legal for me to upload the national geographic map? (LAz17 (talk) 16:44, 21 November 2008 (UTC)).
 * If you upload map with information selfmade (but it is not) or without any copyright information map will be deleted after few days and everything is OK. Every day we are having many, many pictures which are deleted because of copyright problems and nobody is having court problems. On other side users which are adding many pictures/maps with copyright problems will recieve upload ban from Fut.Perf.. --Rjecina (talk) 16:52, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well here, I uploaded this... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Nationalgeoraphicmapbosnia1991.jpg - the only purpose of uploading it is to prove to Ceha that the map9 is correct, and that his map should be deleted. I just scanned it from the magazine a few minutes ago. I uploaded it so that we can proceed with the deletion of nationalistically motivated POV propaganda maps that Ceha had made based off of maps that were deleted because they were inaccurate. I could upload the belgrade map from 1991 again, if need be. His fraud must go. The natinoal geographic and the map made based off of national geographic by panonian is correct. (LAz17 (talk) 16:56, 21 November 2008 (UTC)).


 * Maybe I am making mistake but this is now dispute aboute census data. Because of that I have created page User:Rjecina/Bosnian census in my user space. Can we please continue discussion in my user space. After consensus page will be deleted.--Rjecina (talk) 23:49, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I guess it's a related topic... we could discuss that there, as it there is some difference, but the result of that will directly impact this discussion. (LAz17 (talk) 01:19, 25 November 2008 (UTC)).

Mistakes
We (Fut.Perf. and I) are having problems with your dispute. Can somebody please give us examples why any of map in question is wrong. For example Čeha words will be: On this map Prijedor is given to Serbs, but in reality there is Muslim/Bosniak majority. Then we all will look this part of map and say: "He is right. This map is wrong"--Rjecina (talk) 17:37, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Plausible demand, but I already said what is wrong. I'll go into more detail this time.
 * First of all, there are places where nobody was a majority. This is not included on Ceha's map. Problem? Definitely.
 * Sanski Most is both a municipality and a town/settlement. The maps in question are settlement maps, and indeed, Sanski Most town did not have a majority. In Ceha's map it shows bosniaks as having the majority in it, while in fact serbs were the plurality majority. You can see so for town data for Sanski Most at Sanski Most. The Serbs were the biggest group with 46% of the people, just for the town itself. So therefore your Sanski Most claim there is false, this is false on Ceha's map.
 * Kljuc. This municipality is totally muslim in Ceha's maps, or at least the part that is in the federation. As the deleted belgrade map and the national geographic map showed, this is not the case.
 * Kupres This municipality on Ceha's maps has too few serbs.
 * Tomislavgrad Also, the serbian place is left off.
 * Glamoc There are not that many bosniaks in glamoc, especially in the south part. That area is too large.
 * Livno Northwest Serbian are is too small.
 * Kiseljak Many more muslims in Kiseljak.
 * Drvar Wrong border, plus muslim location where there should not be - it is exclusively a serbian municipality back in 1991.
 * Banja Luka Croat majority in a region where there were NO PEOPLE. Far too big croat area in northeast of the municipality, and Banja Luka city itself did not have a croat majority as is suggested, but was one of those no majority areas.
 * Bosanska Dubica No Muslim majority in bosanska dubica in 1991.
 * Bosanska Gradiska Muslim community in wrong place, and where their place is it's too big.
 * Kotor Varos Too many croats in kotor varos municipality.
 * Bosanski Brod Too many croats there - (posavina region)
 * Derventa Too many croats too, no majority it town itself in reality thoug, also posavina region
 * Modrica Muslim majority in city itself, too many croats, fewer serbs than there were, also posavina region
 * Bosanski Samac Also wrong, too many croats, like 80% of area, when it should be closer to 50. Also posavina region.
 * Jablanica Too few muslims. Too many croats.
 * Prozor Muslims more like 40% of area, not 10%.
 * Novi Travnik Serbian small area on map, it is not there in reality. What is this guy doing?
 * Konjic Too many croats in west part of municipality, too few bosniaks in same area.

I will get to the Eastern Part of Bosnia later. Map is complete peace of propaganda POV. (LAz17 (talk) 21:58, 21 November 2008 (UTC)). Let me first answer to this accusations. All of data can be found on by local communities (mjesne zajednice). If town is not complitely surraunded by one color that means that there where also citizens of other nationalities in it.
 * Sanski Most didn't have apsolute majority of neather of nacionalities in settlemnt and on left bank majority had the Serbs, and on the right Muslim . Most of the souranding settlments had Muslim majority.
 * Kljuc, most of the villages in part of municipality wich went to Federation BiH had Muslim majority and most of it which went to RS had Serbian (municipality was divided, which is clearly seen on all of the maps).
 * Kupres had cca 50% of Serbs, 40% of Croats, and the rest were Muslims and others. Hower local community which included central part of municipality (including the city itself) included 70% of population and had Croat majority.
 * Tomislavgrad; Serbs did not have majority in any of the local communities as they made just 1,91% of population (576) people.
 * Glamoc; Although Muslims did not made majority in any of the local communities, they were majority in villages of Biličić, Draganjić, Karajzovci, Kovačevci, Mladeškovci, Opačić and Vidimlije which lie in the southern part of municipality.
 * Drvar; map border of municipality is from 1995, on there are only Serbs in prewar municipal borders and on  there is one little point which is an errorr, and which I'm going to fix when this discussion is done.
 * Banja Luka Laz maps also show that big bulge north of Banja Luka, the only difference is that in maps which I made the no majority areas is split. City itself did not have Croat(nor Serbian) majority, which is clearly visible from the maps.
 * Bosanska Dubica Muslims made majority in local community of Centar.
 * Bosanska Gradiska Muslims made majoty in local communities of Centar, Dubrave, Liskovac, Obradovac, Orahova, Rovine and Tekija.
 * [Kotor Varos; Croats made majority in local communities of Kotor Varoš, Obodnik and Zabrđe which is 3 out of 10 local communities. On maps they cover about 20% of municipality?
 * Bosanski Brod there are 7 majority croatian local communities and 4 serbian ones.
 * Derventa; I can not see diference betwen maps which I made and maps from banned user Paxequilibrium, maybe only that he gave some border croatian settlments to serbian side. 15 local communities had croatian majority and 13 serbian one. City of Derventa itself was mixed, with strong muslim population which can be seen on maps. Serbs made majority in south and east, and Croats on the north and west.
 * Modrica Croatians had majority in 9 local communities and Serbs in 7. City itself had Muslim majority.
 * Bosanski Samac On maps which I made, Serbs are shown to inhabit cca 30% of municipality. On maps which made banned user PaxEquilibrium they inhabit 80% of municipality. 'Rugala se sova sjenici'. But alas, I think there is an error (13:12 is local comunity ratio). I'll fix it.
 * Jablanica Croats made majority in just one local community (Doljani) out of 9. That same part is marked as Croatian even on the banned user PaxEquilibrium map.
 * Prozor; Out of 9 local communities Croatians were majority in 6. In those 6 resides 90% of population. Muslims were majority in communities of Gračanica, Hudutsko and Šćipe.
 * Novi Travnik; Serbs were majority in Maršala Tita, local community (which included parts of the town). They were premarly employed as workers in JNA arms factory.
 * Konjic; Croats were majority in 5 local communities and in settlments of ;Bare, Budišnja Ravan, Bukovica, Bušćak, Buturović Polje, Crni Vrh, Donja Vratna Gora, Donji Nevizravci, Došćica, Falanovo Brdo, Galjevo, Goransko Polje, Gornja Vratna Gora, Gostovići (relative majority), Homatlije, Javorik, Jošanica, Krtići, Lukšije, Ljesovina, Mrkosvice, Obrenovac, Obri, Orlište, Ovčari (relative majority), Plavuzi, Pokojište, Požetva, Radešine, Repovica, Seonica, Sutlići (relative majority), Tovarnica, Trešnjevica, Trusina, Turija, Vrci, Zabrđe and Zaslivlje. They made 26,3 % of municipal population (Muslims made 54,3 % and were double numerous than Croats). On banned PaxEquilibrium maps it seems that Croats make less then 5% of Konjic municipal population.

End of first part. --Čeha (razgovor) 23:42, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Moving on then shall we?
 * Kakanj Too small of a muslim area... there is also a small serbian area that is not there on Ceha's map. The croat area is again too big.
 * Visoko There should be a few more small serbian areas, but they are left out and it looks like an exclusively muslim area.
 * Ilidza This municipality has a huge area that has no majority. Ceha's data puts croats as the majority, and puts some serb and bosniak area on this one single unit.
 * Bileca Not enough muslims on ceha's map, too many serbs.
 * Gacko Muslim are is too big.
 * Foca Not enough serb area and a larger muslim area for the most part. There is some serb area where there should be muslim area though, so these are double mistakes on this one.
 * Olovo Serbian region too small.
 * Vares Another Serbian are excluded.
 * Visegrad Too large muslim area, too small serbian area.
 * Rogatica Same as with visegrad, serbian area minimized.
 * Bratunac Incorrect areas for where serbs and bosniaks are majorities.
 * Srebrenica Not enough serb area, and at a place where there is serb area there should in fact be muslim area.
 * Zepce Serbian area missing, smaller muslim area, larger croat area.
 * Zavidovici Almost no serbian area while almost 50% is supposed to be serbian. One area where serbs are not a majority shows up as majority - an area that has NO serbs at all.

Well now that we have seen the numerous inaccuracies and clear POV showing more croats in Herceg-Bosna areas and Posavina, we can finally go about deleting his very inaccurate maps. (LAz17 (talk) 23:08, 21 November 2008 (UTC)).

These are not all the problems by the way, just some of the main ones. Some of the many others are that there is no serbian majority area in Neum municipality yet there is supposed to be... one muslim settlement too. Western Trebinje is wrong, and Ljubinje is 100% serb when in fact it has some muslim and croat areas. This map is really frightening if you think about what is really going on with it. (LAz17 (talk) 23:11, 21 November 2008 (UTC)).


 * Kakanj Croats made majority in 10 out of 36; Bjelavići, Bukovlje, Čatići, Haljinići, Kraljeva Sutjeska, Poljani, Seoce, Slapnica, Veliki Trnovci and Vukanovići.  Serbs made majority in one; Bilješevo. That's one small village wich I did not notice(not one tenth of the municipality like on Equilibrium's maps). I'll fix it.
 * Visoko Again Serbs made majority in one (1) local community out of 25. On Pax's map it is again 10% of municipality. Hm...
 * Ilidza Croats vere majority in local community of Stup I (little area north of Ilidža). That is not shown on Pax's maps... In settlment itself there is an Muslim (relative majority) which should be fixed.
 * Bileca In Bileća in all 5 local communities Serbs made majority. However, Muslims were majority in Đeće, Krivača, Njeganovići, Orahovice, Plana, Prijevor, Prisoje and Zaušje settlments.
 * Gacko Muslims were majority in 3 out of 9 local communities; Bistrica, Gacko and Kula.
 * Foca Muslim majority in 10 out of 23 local communities; Donje Polje, Jabuka, Jeleč, Kozja Luka, Kratine, Miljevna, Popov Most, Slatina, Ustikolina, Vikoč. Including cca 19 out of 40 thousand of population. Out of all the settlments 69 had Muslim majority and 47 Serbian one.
 * Olovo Serbs made majority in one (1) local community out of 12; Olovske Luke.
 * Vares Serbs made majority in three local communities out of 23; Brgule, Okruglica and Planinica.
 * Visegrad Serbs made majority in 2 local communities out of 8; Dobrun and Vardište.
 * Rogatica Serbs made majority in 3 local communities out of 11; Berkovići, Gučevo and Seljani.
 * Bratunac Serbs made majority in 4 local communities out of 13; Fakovići, Hranča, Kravica and Osamsko.
 * Srebrenica Serbs made majority in 3 local communities out of 19; Crvica, Orahovica and Podravno.
 * Zepce Really, there is one small Serbian dot in local community of Ljeskovica (1 out of 11). Muslims were majority in 4 local communities;Begov Han, Golubnja, Željezno polje and Žepče.
 * Zavidovici Serbs made majority in 2 local communities out of 22; Dolac and Stog.

Laz, I think that I deserve an appology. Just look on the data. Do I still need to prove that Pax's maps were wrong? --Čeha (razgovor) 00:30, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

WHO IN THE WORLD ARE YOU TRYING TO FOOL ??? ME??? Your data from this website, is bullshit data because there is no map attached to it. You want to know why? Because these data are as you said local communities. This is totally different from census track data. As we see, there is only about six communities in glamoc. Yet however there are some 30-40 census track areas. You are mixing up census tracks and community areas. You clearly do not have census track areas. That is your problem, not mine.

You say that serbs were not a majority anywhere in tomislavgrad. Think again. Municipality Baljci. Population 43 total, serbs constituting 40 in 1991, and croats the remaining 3.

Similar fraud that you are trying to pull is by saying muslims in glamoc being the majority in 7 census tracks. yes, that's true, but then you lie and say that they are all in the south. Half are in the center, half in the south, and there are another 40 er so serbian ones, and the serbs are in most of the ones that are down in the south.

I can not list all hundreds of municipalities from my CD that I have with all the census data information from every Yugoslav census from 1921 to 1991. The clear thing is that you are insane, because you are taking data from community areas. We have NO map of any community areas anywhere. We only have the map of the census and maps based off of that, at the small areas.

Take a good look at the belgrade maps... Here, I'll upload the 1991 map that was deleted again. You can see what census tracks are and then you can notice that there is no map in existence of your "community ares". There was no such subdivision of community areas. Your information there is biased because it was constructed on purpose to leave out all of these small census tracks. There never was a map that shows where any community area was. Therefore all your data is false.

Furthermore, all your maps are not based on any of these data. Your maps are based off of that 1991 map to which this talk page belongs, the map that got deleted.

Just for starters, here are all the census tracks for tomislavgrad... REPUBLIKA                 ! !      !       !       !       !       !povr-  ! {ifre OP[TINA                   ! Ukupno !Hrvati ! Musli-! Srbi !Jugo-  ! ostali!{ina  ! op{t nase- NASEQE                 ! !      !  mani ! !sloveni! ! (ha) ! ine  qa Tomislavgrad                   29261   25347    3166     570     103      75   92821                                    103081 Baqci                         43       3       0      40       0       0    1900                                     10308113492 Bla`uj                       325     168     152       3       2       0     550                                     10308113506 Bogda{i}                     405     405       0       0       0       0    1850                                     10308113514 Bor~ani                      726     724       0       0       0       2     675                                     10308113522 Bukova Gora                  131     131       0       0       0       0    1300                                     10308113549 Bukovica                     910     906       2       0       2       0    1263                                     10308113557 Cebara                       139     139       0       0       0       0     626                                     10308113565 Crvenice                     757     757       0       0       0       0    2199                                     10308113573 ]avarov Stan                  66      66       0       0       0       0     450                                     10308113581 Dobri}i                      472     471       1       0       0       0    2136                                     10308113590 Dowi Bri{nik                 838     837       0       1       0       0    1055                                     10308113603 Tomislavgrad                4964    3134    1480     215      91      44     925                                     10308113611 Eminovo Selo                 668     598       0      69       0       1    3278                                     10308113620 Gale~i}                      275     275       0       0       0       0    1050                                     10308113638 Gorwa Prisika                 56      56       0       0       0       0     549                                     10308113646 Gorwi Bri{nik                309     309       0       0       0       0    1500                                     10308113654 Grabovica                    346     343       0       0       3       0    2652                                     10308113662 Jo{anica                     215     215       0       0       0       0     550                                     10308113689 Kazaginac                    298     296       0       0       0       2     680                                     10308113697 Kolo                         638     638       0       0       0       0     876                                     10308113719 Kongora                      856     846       0       6       0       4   18191                                     10308113727 Korita                       178     178       0       0       0       0     800                                     10308113735 Kova~i                       364     364       0       0       0       0     820                                     10308113743 Krwin                        163     163       0       0       0       0     551                                     10308113751 Kuk                          207     207       0       0       0       0     679                                     10308113760 Letka                        663     662       0       0       0       1    1200                                     10308113778 Lipa                         349     309       0      40       0       0    1800                                     10308113786 Liskova~a                    191     191       0       0       0       0    2400                                     10308113794 Lug                          260     260       0       0       0       0    1150                                     10308113808 Mandino Selo                 450     301     112      37       0       0    2231                                     10308113816 Mesihovina                   951     948       0       3       0       0    1923                                     10308113824 Mijakovo Poqe                179     179       0       0       0       0     925                                     10308113832 Mokronoge                    550     278     272       0       0       0    1181                                     10308113859 Mrkodol                     1055    1055       0       0       0       0    2000                                     10308113867 Omerovi}i                    321       0     321       0       0       0     675                                     10308113875 Omoqe                        665     665       0       0       0       0     912                                     10308113883 Ople}ani                     426      76     308      36       0       6    1731                                     10308113891 Pasi}                        128     128       0       0       0       0     700                                     10308113905 Podgaj                       166     166       0       0       0       0     727                                     10308113913 Prisoje                     1070    1063       0       0       0       7    3200                                     10308113921 Rado{i                       201     201       0       0       0       0     625                                     10308113930 Ra{}ani                      103       0       0     102       1       0     866                                     10308113948 Ra{eqke                      416     415       0       0       0       1     750                                     10308113956 Ra{ko Poqe                  1066    1066       0       0       0       0    2300                                     10308113964 Reni}i                       181     181       0       0       0       0     470                                     10308113972 Ro{wa~e                      100     100       0       0       0       0     850                                     10308113999 Sarajlije                    397     392       4       1       0       0    1175                                     10308114006 Seonica                      395     394       0       1       0       0     720                                     10308114014 Srdjani                      274     260       0      14       0       0     840                                     10308114022 Stipawi}i                   1230     830     395       0       1       4    2792                                     10308114049 [uica                       1429    1303     119       2       3       2    3200                                     10308114057 Veda{i}                      651     651       0       0       0       0    1550                                     10308114065 Vinica                       387     387       0       0       0       0    1625                                     10308114073 Vojkovi}i                    332     332       0       0       0       0    1375                                     10308114081 Vrawa~e                       22      22       0       0       0       0     825                                     10308114090 Vrilo                        168     167       0       0       0       1    1000                                     10308114103 Zaqi}e                        75      75       0       0       0       0     850                                     10308114111 Zaqut                         22      22       0       0       0       0     940                                     10308114120 Zidine                        39      39       0       0       0       0     208

Here is data for Glamoc...

REPUBLIKA                 ! !      !       !       !       !       !povr-  ! {ifre OP[TINA                   ! Ukupno !Hrvati ! Musli-! Srbi !Jugo-  ! ostali!{ina  ! op{t nase- NASEQE                 ! !      !  mani ! !sloveni! ! (ha) ! ine  qa Glamo~                         12543     184    2243    9969     116      31  109716                                     103591 Babi}a Brdo                   67       0       0      67       0       0     623                                     10359116858 Bili~i}                      179       3     127      48       0       1     546                                     10359116866 Crni Vrh                     281       0       0     280       1       0    5500                                     10359116874 ]iri}i                        75       0      15      59       1       0     176                                     10359116882 ]oslije                      147      15       0     131       1       0    2120                                     10359116904 Dolac                         64       0       0      64       0       0    5828                                     10359116912 Dragwi}                      121       9      75      34       2       1    2299                                     10359116939 Dubrave                       43       0       0      43       0       0    1201                                     10359116947 Djuli~an                     147      20      26     100       0       1     300                                     10359116955 Glamo~                      4248      43     838    3266      90      11    1566                                     10359116963 Glavica                      341       0       0     341       0       0    4912                                     10359116971 Halapi}                      530       1       0     527       1       1    4233                                     10359116980 Hasanbegovci                 153       0       0     153       0       0    6509                                     10359116998 Hasi}i                       744       8      47     684       5       0     350                                     10359117005 Hotkovci                     106       0       0     105       1       0    2457                                     10359117013 Hozi}i                       132       0      32     100       0       0     450                                     10359117021 Hrbine                        85       1       0      84       0       0    5450                                     10359117030 Isakovci                      64       0      31      33       0       0    2400                                     10359117048 Jakir                        142       2      61      75       4       0     490                                     10359117056 Kamen                        178       1       8     169       0       0     444                                     10359117064 Karajzovci                    45       3      39       3       0       0    1899                                     10359117072 Karlovac                      22       0       0      22       0       0    1344                                     10359117099 Kopi}                         64      18      13      33       0       0    2949                                     10359117102 Kori}na                        0       0       0       0       0       0     369                                     10359117129 Kova~evci                    420      45     244     129       1       1     460                                     10359117137 Krasinac                      43       0       0      43       0       0     108                                     10359117145 Malko~evci                   152       0      53      99       0       0     900                                     10359117153 Malo Selo                     57       0      16      41       0       0     294                                     10359117161 Maslina Strana                38       0       0      38       0       0    1057                                     10359117170 Mlade{kovci                   88       0      68      20       0       0     810                                     10359117188 Oxak                          54       0       3      49       2       0     400                                     10359117196 Opa~i}                        87       1      86       0       0       0     430                                     10359117200 Perduhovo Selo                75       0       0      75       0       0    1781                                     10359117218 Petrovo Vrelo                136       0       0     135       0       1     500                                     10359117226 Podglavica                    35       0       0      35       0       0     769                                     10359117234 Podgradina                   122       0       0     122       0       0     482                                     10359117242 Podgreda                      98       0       0      98       0       0     379                                     10359117269 Podkraj                       34       8       0      26       0       0     550                                     10359117277 Popovi}i                      75       0       0      74       1       0    3950                                     10359117285 Pribeqa                      233       0       0     233       0       0    8775                                     10359117293 Prijani                      161       0       0     160       1       0    4150                                     10359117307 Radaslije                    865       3     329     523       1       9    1500                                     10359117315 Raji}ke                       36       0       0      36       0       0     348                                     10359117323 Reqino Selo                   47       0       0      47       0       0    1026                                     10359117331 Rore                         203       0       0     203       0       0    3700                                     10359117340 Rudine                        10       0       0      10       0       0    1597                                     10359117358 Skucani                      125       0       0     125       0       0     844                                     10359117366 Staro Selo                    82       0       0      82       0       0    1351                                     10359117374 Stekerovci                   349       0       0     344       4       1    6214                                     10359117382 [umwaci                      238       0       0     238       0       0    3247                                     10359117404 Vagan                        160       0       0     160       0       0    2640                                     10359117412 Vidimlije                    150       2     132      14       0       2    1441                                     10359117439 Vrba                         113       0       0     113       0       0     367                                     10359117447 Zaglavica                     51       0       0      49       0       2     369                                     10359117455 Zajaruga                     228       1       0     227       0       0    4862

Really eye opening stuff, isn't it? That's the difference between academic and pure amature peasants who do not know that community areas have no map associated with them. Your problem is that you do not have any map associated with any of these small municipalities. I know, it's hard to find these maps. I certainly am not giving them to you, for you clearly should not be involved in mapping.

Lets see what other municipalities you had issues with...

Lets speak about Prozor? Again, fuck the community areas as they do not correspond to anything.. .we need actual cenesus track data.. here we go, it's not 9 regions, it's more my messed up fellow wikipedian...

REPUBLIKA                 ! !      !       !       !       !       !povr-  ! {ifre OP[TINA                   ! Ukupno !Hrvati ! Musli-! Srbi !Jugo-  ! ostali!{ina  ! op{t nase- NASEQE                 ! !      !  mani ! !sloveni! ! (ha) ! ine  qa Prozor                         19601   12213    7173      49      99      67   47927                                     107661 Blace                        181      83      88       0       0      10     381                                     10766137740 Borovnica                    329     168     161       0       0       0    1102                                     10766137758 Dobro{a                      202     202       0       0       0       0     394                                     10766137766 Dowa Vast                    367     280      86       0       0       1     890                                     10766137774 Dowi Kran~i}i                156      19     137       0       0       0     333                                     10766137782 Dowi Vi{wani                  77       1      76       0       0       0     480                                     10766137804 Dru`inovi}i                  125      58      67       0       0       0     425                                     10766137812 Duge                         344     119     222       0       3       0     677                                     10766137839 Gmi}i                        867     812      50       0       0       5     347                                     10766137847 Gorica                       192      82     109       0       0       1     721                                     10766137855 Gorwi Kran~i}i               202     197       5       0       0       0     334                                     10766137863 Gorwi Vi{wani                 59       0      59       0       0       0    1211                                     10766137871 Gra~ac                       315     218      94       0       0       3       7                                     10766137880 Gra~anica                    117      31      86       0       0       0      30                                     10766137898 Grevi}i                      187      48     139       0       0       0     480                                     10766137901 Heqdovi                      127      12     115       0       0       0     497                                     10766137910 Here                         270       0     269       0       0       1      94                                     10766137928 Hudutsko                      87      84       0       1       2       0     170                                     10766137936 Ivanci                       114     114       0       0       0       0     325                                     10766137944 Jakli}i                      699     699       0       0       0       0    1091                                     10766137952 Klek                         207       0     207       0       0       0    1020                                     10766137979 Kova~evo Poqe                146       0     146       0       0       0     829                                     10766137987 Kozo                         105     105       0       0       0       0    2670                                     10766137995 Ku}ani                       276     202      74       0       0       0     526                                     10766138002 Kute                         331      23     308       0       0       0    1127                                     10766138029 Lapsuw                       251       8     243       0       0       0     645                                     10766138037 Lizoperci                    175       0     175       0       0       0     326                                     10766138045 Lug                          651     247     402       1       1       0     840                                     10766138053 Qubunci                      449     382      67       0       0       0     999                                     10766138061 Maglice                       80      80       0       0       0       0     628                                     10766138070 Meopoto~je                    85      85       0       0       0       0     359                                     10766138088 Mlu{a                        165     164       0       0       0       1     315                                     10766138096 Ometala                      464     425      35       0       0       4     205                                     10766138100 Ora{ac                       686     578     108       0       0       0    4057                                     10766138118 Paji}i                        89      89       0       0       0       0     532                                     10766138126 Paqike                       303     236      67       0       0       0     126                                     10766138134 Parcani                      109       0     108       0       0       1     463                                     10766138142 Paro{                        103      14      88       0       0       1     782                                     10766138169 Plo~a                        265     265       0       0       0       0     199                                     10766138177 Podbor                       602     556      46       0       0       0     614                                     10766138185 Proslap                      314     310       3       0       0       1    3311                                     10766138193 Prozor                      3581    1241    2176      43      92      29    1746                                     10766138207 Ravnica                       42       0      42       0       0       0     303                                     10766138215 Ripci                        582     542      40       0       0       0     417                                     10766138223 Rumboci                     1650    1616      33       0       0       1     309                                     10766138231 Skrobu}ani                   296      96     200       0       0       0     912                                     10766138240 [}ipe                        285      43     238       4       0       0    1564                                     10766138258 [}it                         166     166       0       0       0       0     288                                     10766138266 [erovina                      52      52       0       0       0       0     456                                     10766138274 [limac                       114      87      27       0       0       0     610                                     10766138282 To{}anica                    204      31     173       0       0       0     677                                     10766138304 Tri{}ani                     146     146       0       0       0       0     717                                     10766138312 Ustirama                     519     472      39       0       0       8    1046                                     10766138339 Uzdol                        481     481       0       0       0       0     936                                     10766138347 Varvara                      604     238     365       0       1       0    3284                                     10766138355 Zahum                          6       6       0       0       0       0    4100

Lets see what more you might want...

Rogatica. Serbs a majority in only 3 and there are only 11 total? Well what do you know, genious has sat in shit again, here is the census tracks...

REPUBLIKA                 ! !      !       !       !       !       !povr-  ! {ifre OP[TINA                   ! Ukupno !Hrvati ! Musli-! Srbi !Jugo-  ! ostali!{ina  ! op{t nase- NASEQE                 ! !      !  mani ! !sloveni! ! (ha) ! ine  qa Rogatica                       21812      18   13169    8374     185      66   65380                                     107821 Agarovi}i                    161       0       0     161       0       0     732                                     10782138932 Babqak                       140       0      27     110       3       0     750                                     10782138959 Be}i                          55       0       0      55       0       0     500                                     10782138967 Begzadi}i                    103       0      21      82       0       0     750                                     10782138975 Behe}i                        77       0       0      77       0       0     156                                     10782138983 Berkovi}i                    109       0      66      43       0       0     625                                     10782138991 Bjelogorci                   153       0     101      49       3       0     294                                     10782139009 Bla`ujevi}i                  126       0       0     126       0       0     700                                     10782139017 Bora~                         37       0      12      25       0       0     600                                     10782139025 Borika                       241       0      17     224       0       0    1075                                     10782139033 Borovac                      145       0     145       0       0       0     470                                     10782139041 Borovsko                      53       0      45       8       0       0     475                                     10782139050 Bo`ine                        54       0       0      54       0       0     252                                     10782139068 Brankovi}i                   174       0       0     174       0       0     825                                     10782139076 Br~igovo                     198       0     195       3       0       0     625                                     10782139084 Brda                          40       0      40       0       0       0     650                                     10782139092 Brezje                        97       0      60      37       0       0     198                                     10782139106 Bulozi                        22       0       0      22       0       0     900                                     10782139114 Burati                        85       0      69      16       0       0     156                                     10782139122 ^adovina                      49       0      49       0       0       0      88                                     10782139149 ^av~i}i                      267       0     267       0       0       0     700                                     10782139157 ^ubri}i                       67       0      61       6       0       0      90                                     10782139165 Dobra~e                       65       0      63       2       0       0     436                                     10782139173 Dobra{ina                     92       0      38      54       0       0     390                                     10782139181 Dobromerovi}i                 60       0      22      38       0       0     550                                     10782139190 Dobrou{~i}i                   52       0      10      42       0       0     500                                     10782139203 Drobni}i                     165       0       0     163       2       0     488                                     10782139211 Dub                          103       0     103       0       0       0     475                                     10782139220 Dumawi}i                      90       0      34      56       0       0     825                                     10782139238 Djedovi}i                     43       0      36       7       0       0    1100                                     10782139246 Ferizovi}i                    59       0       0      54       5       0     475                                     10782139254 Gazije                        79       0      79       0       0       0      84                                     10782139262 Godomiqe                     103       0      72      31       0       0    1450                                     10782139289 Golubovi}i                    22       0      14       7       0       1     250                                     10782139297 Grivci                        58       0       0      58       0       0     520                                     10782139319 Gu~evo                       140       1       0     137       2       0     700                                     10782139327 Gu`deqi                       99       0       0      99       0       0     180                                     10782139335 Jarovi}i                      39       0      20      19       0       0     350                                     10782139343 Jasenice                      57       0      41      16       0       0    1175                                     10782139351 Kamen                         48       0       0      48       0       0     276                                     10782139360 Kara~i}i                      58       0      58       0       0       0     210                                     10782139378 Kopqevi}i                     58       0      58       0       0       0     362                                     10782139386 Kovaw                        490       0     387     103       0       0     320                                     10782139394 Kozarde                       56       0      56       0       0       0     535                                     10782139408 Kozi}i                        98       0      87      11       0       0     120                                     10782139416 Kramer Selo                  229       0     222       7       0       0     400                                     10782139424 Krvojevi}i                    37       0       0      36       1       0     475                                     10782139432 Kujunxijevi}i                 92       0      64      27       1       0     125                                     10782139459 Kukavice                     482       1     454      14       5       8     545                                     10782139467 Kusuci                        26       0       0      26       0       0     264                                     10782139475 Ladjevine                    107       0       0     107       0       0     675                                     10782139483 Laze                         178       0     158      20       0       0    1275                                     10782139491 Lepenica                     140       0     104      36       0       0     126                                     10782139505 Lubardi}i                     66       0      66       0       0       0     447                                     10782139513 Qubomi{qe                     97       0      96       0       1       0     300                                     10782139521 Mahala                        46       0      39       7       0       0     300                                     10782139530 Maravi}i                      31       0       0      31       0       0     525                                     10782139548 Medna Luka                    31       0      29       2       0       0     968                                     10782139556 Mesi}i                        96       0      17      79       0       0     822                                     10782139564 Mislovo                       80       0       0      80       0       0    1625                                     10782139572 Mrgudi}i                      30       0      30       0       0       0     180                                     10782139599 Nahota                        34       0      34       0       0       0     325                                     10782139602 Obrti}i                       46       0       0      46       0       0     300                                     10782139629 Okruglo                      131       0      95      36       0       0     624                                     10782139637 Orahovo                       65       0      65       0       0       0     365                                     10782139645 Osovo                        318       0     149     169       0       0    1846                                     10782139653 Otri~evo                      47       0      47       0       0       0     385                                     10782139661 Pa{i} Kula                    96       0      75      17       2       2     198                                     10782139670 Pavi~ina Kula                113       0      13     100       0       0     425                                     10782139688 Pe{uri}i                      34       0       0      34       0       0     760                                     10782139696 Pijev~i}i                     93       0       0      93       0       0     372                                     10782139700 Plawe                         37       0      10      27       0       0     650                                     10782139718 Pqesko                        99       0       0      99       0       0     642                                     10782139726 Pqe{evica                    416       0      12     404       0       0     446                                     10782139734 Podgaj                        73       0       0      73       0       0     150                                     10782139742 Pokrivenik                    54       0      54       0       0       0     292                                     10782139769 Pribo{ijevi}i                 89       0      29      60       0       0     260                                     10782139777 Pripe~ak                     264       0     264       0       0       0     675                                     10782139785 Prosje~eno                    57       0      57       0       0       0     324                                     10782139793 Purti}i                      354       0     354       0       0       0    1275                                     10782139807 Radi~                         63       0      63       0       0       0     650                                     10782139815 Radjevi}i                     57       0      11      46       0       0    1300                                     10782139823 Rakitnica                    169       0     169       0       0       0     575                                     10782139831 Ribioc                        77       0      77       0       0       0     250                                     10782139840 Rogatica                    8883      16    5662    3015     139      51     926                                     10782139858 Rusanovi}i                    45       0       0      45       0       0     415                                     10782139866 Seqani                       463       0     161     297       5       0     850                                     10782139874 Sjeme}                        42       0       4      38       0       0    1350                                     10782139882 Sjeversko                     98       0       0      98       0       0     775                                     10782139904 Slap                          80       0      80       0       0       0     200                                     10782139912 So~ice                        59       0      56       3       0       0     180                                     10782139939 Stara Gora                   221       0      64     157       0       0    1275                                     10782139947 Star~i}i                     125       0      56      67       2       0     559                                     10782139955 Stari Brod                    45       0       0      45       0       0     750                                     10782139963 Stjenice                      56       0      29      27       0       0      57                                     10782139971 Stop                          73       0      73       0       0       0      54                                     10782139980 Strmac                       153       0     122      30       1       0     475                                     10782139998 Sudi}i                        35       0       0      35       0       0     775                                     10782140007 Surovi}i                      20       0      20       0       0       0     297                                     10782140015 [atorovi}i                   112       0     112       0       0       0     422                                     10782140023 [ena Krena                    53       0      26      27       0       0      84                                     10782140031 [eti}i                       137       0     110      26       1       0     675                                     10782140040 [qedovi}i                     47       0      47       0       0       0     210                                     10782140058 [qivno                        25       0      25       0       0       0     300                                     10782140066 [tavaw                        55       0       0      55       0       0    1350                                     10782140074 Trnovo                        63       0      39      24       0       0     268                                     10782140082 Varo{i{te                    212       0     137      71       2       2     625                                     10782140104 Vragolovi                    179       0     161      18       0       0     450                                     10782140112 Vratar                       280       0     280       0       0       0     675                                     10782140139 Vra`alice                     76       0      22      54       0       0    2450                                     10782140147 Vrelo                         96       0      96       0       0       0      76                                     10782140155 Vrlazje                       88       0      35      51       0       2     513                                     10782140163 Zagajevi                      14       0       3      11       0       0     270                                     10782140171 Zagorice                      30       0       0      30       0       0     400                                     10782140180 Zakomo                       178       0      30     145       3       0     800                                     10782140198 Zili~ina                      37       0       0      37       0       0     450                                     10782140201 @epa                         450       0     440       3       7       0     525                                     10782140210 @ivaqevi}i                    94       0      69      25       0       0     250                                     10782140228 @ivaqevina                    47       0       0      47       0       0     126

Many regards, and fuck the community areas, for all that is important is census tracks. You clearly do not have this data, and I am not willing to paste the thousands of census tracks onto this talk page. (LAz17 (talk) 01:18, 22 November 2008 (UTC)).

Heck, here's sanski most, 'cause you mentioned that one too...

REPUBLIKA                 ! !      !       !       !       !       !povr-  ! {ifre OP[TINA                   ! Ukupno !Hrvati ! Musli-! Srbi !Jugo-  ! ostali!{ina  ! op{t nase- NASEQE                 ! !      !  mani ! !sloveni! ! (ha) ! ine  qa Sanski Most                    60119    4267   28285   25372    1202     993   95447                                     108121 Batkovci                     213      85       0     103      18       7     357                                     10812141224 Bjeline                       48       0       0      48       0       0     250                                     10812141232 Boji{te                      313       0       0     313       0       0    4387                                     10812141259 Bosanski Milanovac           274       0       0     273       1       0    1566                                     10812141267 Bo{waci                      230       0       0     229       0       1     933                                     10812141275 Brdari                       540      12     293     224       5       6     550                                     10812141283 Budimli} Japra               463       5     172     272      12       2    1872                                     10812141291 ^apqe                       1394       5    1157     226       3       3     736                                     10812141305 Demi{evci                    496       0     495       0       1       0     650                                     10812141313 Dowa Kozica                  598       1       1     589       7       0    1750                                     10812141321 Dowa Tramo{wa                173       0       0     173       0       0     725                                     10812141330 Dowi Dabar                   787       1       0     786       0       0    4011                                     10812141348 Dowi Kamengrad              2337       1    2107      80      11     138     575                                     10812141356 Dowi Lipnik                  285       0       0     285       0       0     725                                     10812141364 Duge Wive                     57       0       0      56       1       0     258                                     10812141372 Xevar                        688      52     375     261       0       0     717                                     10812141399 Djedova~a                     79       0       0      79       0       0     300                                     10812141402 Djuri}i                       96       0       0      93       0       3     625                                     10812141429 Fajtovci                     363       0     183     167       0      13     378                                     10812141437 Garevica                     137     127       0       9       0       1     657                                     10812141445 Glavice                      309       0       0     309       0       0    1965                                     10812141453 Gorice                       639       1     616      22       0       0     347                                     10812141461 Gorwa Kozica                 140       0       0     140       0       0    2341                                     10812141470 Gorwa Tramo{wa               477       0       1     474       0       2    2525                                     10812141488 Gorwi Dabar                  568       1       0     567       0       0    1450                                     10812141496 Gorwi Kamengrad             1386       0    1384       1       0       1     600                                     10812141500 Gorwi Lipnik                 222       0       0     217       0       5     725                                     10812141518 Grdanovci                    265       0       0     264       1       0    1163                                     10812141526 Hadrovci                      76       0       0      76       0       0     560                                     10812141534 Halilovci                    169       0      79      86       2       2     491                                     10812141542 Hazi}i                       101       0       0     101       0       0    1394                                     10812141569 Hrustovo                    1677       3    1672       0       2       0    1025                                     10812141577 Husimovci                   1806      20    1188     565      18      15     525                                     10812141585 Ilixa                        250       1       0     249       0       0     975                                     10812141593 Jela{inovci                  598       0       0     597       1       0    5523                                     10812141607 Kijevo                      1090     124     767     186       5       8    1425                                     10812141615 Kqevci                       819      60     151     597       1      10    3900                                     10812141623 Koprivna                     698       2       0     653      36       7    1744                                     10812141631 Kozin                         92       0       0      90       2       0     694                                     10812141640 Krkojevci                    303      12       0     276      15       0     378                                     10812141658 Kruhari                      792     355       0     418      13       6    1810                                     10812141666 Lukavice                     607       9     411     183       1       3    1244                                     10812141674 Lu{ci Palanka               1068       0       0    1046      15       7    2575                                     10812141682 Lu`ani                       172       8       0     162       2       0     236                                     10812141704 Majki} Japra Dowa            217       1       0     214       0       2    1475                                     10812141712 Majki} Japra Gorwa           241       0       0     241       0       0    4367                                     10812141739 Marini                       105       2       0     103       0       0     787                                     10812141747 Miqevci                      368       0       0     368       0       0    1106                                     10812141755 Modra                        578       0     509       0       0      69     500                                     10812141763 Mrkaqi                        81       0       0      81       0       0     782                                     10812141771 Napreqe                      825       0     769      53       2       1     579                                     10812141780 Okre~                       1089       2    1086       0       0       1     833                                     10812141798 O{tra Luka                   827      33       7     767      17       3    1205                                     10812141801 Oti{                         270       0       0     270       0       0    1250                                     10812141810 Ovawska                      249     235       0      13       0       1     679                                     10812141828 Podbrije`je                  565       4     500      61       0       0     100                                     10812141836 Podlug                       643       3       4     616      18       2     187                                     10812141844 Podovi                       284       0       0     283       0       1    1213                                     10812141852 Podvida~a                    673       0     312     359       0       2    1325                                     10812141879 Poqak                        519     367      56      38      38      20     270                                     10812141887 Pra{tali                     401       2       0     399       0       0    3518                                     10812141895 Sanski Most                17304     655    7377    7952     885     435    1985                                     10812141909 Sasina                      1039    1012       4       2       0      21    1781                                     10812141917 Skucani Vakuf               1320       1    1289      30       0       0    1629                                     10812141925 Slatina                       96       0       0      96       0       0     610                                     10812141933 Stara Rijeka                 638     618       0      11       7       2    1728                                     10812141941 Stari Majdan                1201      98    1012      55      23      13    1469                                     10812141950 Suha~a                       333       1       0     327       5       0     765                                     10812141968 [ehovci                      960       3     853      30      12      62     400                                     10812141976 [krqevita                    276     249       0      27       0       0    1251                                     10812141984 Tomina                      1499       3     712     705       8      71    1125                                     10812141992 Trnova                       976      92     829      30       3      22    1700                                     10812142000 Usorci                       616       1       0     603      11       1    1450                                     10812142018 Vrhpoqe                     1838       0    1814       0       0      24     875                                     10812142026 Zenkovi}i                    193       0     100      93       0       0     866

Wtih more regards, here is the real community census tracks... I reuploaded the map.

Have fun with it.

Image:Bosnia1991ethnic2.jpg

Therea re the areas as you can see on there. No, they are not all labeled, but they are the official things. This is an official publication and is accurate. We see similar stuff in the national geogrpahic. They are the damning proof that your maps are POV maps that must be erradicated from thi site ASAP! (LAz17 (talk) 01:26, 22 November 2008 (UTC)).

Pardon, but Tomislavgrad has two serb areas, not one. My mistake. Yours too though. (LAz17 (talk) 01:40, 22 November 2008 (UTC)).

Laz, what color is city of Konjic on this map ? Orange? City had 6,697 Muslims, 3,026 Croats and 2,536 Serbs before the war. What kind of book is it when it does not have č, ć, š, ž, đ? My data is from Federal office of Statistics (Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina). What is the source of your's data? Some wild cd is not good enough answer. --Čeha (razgovor) 02:11, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

The bosnian government has never carried out any census. Furthermore, it did not exist back in 1991. All the original data went to belgrade, to the National Statistics office. SAVEZNI ZAVOD ZA STATISTIKU is what the place was called in 1998. They made this Cd and publication in 1998. The problem with not having č, ć, š, ž, đ is because those letters were not compatible when it was transfered onto the cd format. Regardless, we see the data. Your data is b.s. which is in fact data that combined the census tracks to give your community area stuff. It's a bunch of miserable good for nothing propaganda source from the new government that broke off of Yugoslavia. You asked about Konjic, here is the data...

REPUBLIKA                 ! !      !       !       !       !       !povr-  ! {ifre OP[TINA                   ! Ukupno !Hrvati ! Musli-! Srbi !Jugo-  ! ostali!{ina  ! op{t nase- NASEQE                 ! !      !  mani ! !sloveni! ! (ha) ! ine  qa Kowic                          43636   11354   23791    6645    1379     467  105947                                     105291 Argud                         74       0      74       0       0       0     569                                     10529126659 Bale                         132       0     132       0       0       0     483                                     10529126667 Bare                         183      98      85       0       0       0     261                                     10529126675 Barmi{                       111       0     111       0       0       0     249                                     10529126683 Bijela                       537      93     171     273       0       0    2462                                     10529126691 Bjelov~ina                   200      18      16     161       4       1     271                                     10529126705 Blace                         21       0       0      21       0       0    2403                                     10529126713 Blu~i}i                      197       0     197       0       0       0     384                                     10529126721 Borci                        254      42      22     187       3       0    4756                                     10529126730 Bo`darevi}i                  168       7     161       0       0       0     505                                     10529126748 Bradina                      665      33      16     604      12       0    2111                                     10529126756 Brdjani                      436       0     183     252       1       0    1220                                     10529126764 Budi{wa Ravan                 55      55       0       0       0       0     151                                     10529126772 Bukovica                     179     179       0       0       0       0     760                                     10529126799 Bukovqe                      183      18     165       0       0       0     715                                     10529126802 Bulatovi}i                    97      10      87       0       0       0     219                                     10529126829 Bu{}ak                       125      61      63       0       0       1     386                                     10529126837 Buturovi} Poqe               419     226     188       4       1       0     138                                     10529126845 Ceri}i                       102       0       0     102       0       0     188                                     10529126853 Crni Vrh                      94      94       0       0       0       0    1021                                     10529126861 ^elebi}i                    1220     263     579     322      36      20     596                                     10529126870 ^elina                       132      10     122       0       0       0     526                                     10529126888 ^esim                          0       0       0       0       0       0     850                                     10529126896 ^i~evo                       189       0       0     189       0       0    2066                                     10529126900 ^uhovi}i                     164       0     164       0       0       0    3141                                     10529126918 Dobri~evi}i                  131      62      69       0       0       0     424                                     10529126926 Dolovi                        73       0       0      73       0       0     823                                     10529126934 Doqani                        85       0      85       0       0       0     651                                     10529126942 Dowa Vratna Gora              65      65       0       0       0       0     274                                     10529126969 Dowe Selo                    344      76       0     264       3       1     160                                     10529126977 Dowe Vi{wevice               228      73     155       0       0       0     384                                     10529126985 Dowi ^a`aw                   140       0     140       0       0       0     277                                     10529126993 Dowi Gradac                  164       0     164       0       0       0     187                                     10529127019 Dowi Nevizdraci               17      17       0       0       0       0     126                                     10529127027 Dowi Prijeslop                92      28      62       0       2       0     457                                     10529127035 Do{}ica                       41      41       0       0       0       0     178                                     10529127043 Dubo~ani                     146       0     146       0       0       0    1400                                     10529127051 Dubravice                    125      31       0      93       0       1     562                                     10529127060 Dudle                         97       0      97       0       0       0     390                                     10529127078 Du`ani                        52       0      52       0       0       0     548                                     10529127086 Xaji}i                       220       2     218       0       0       0     712                                     10529127094 Xani}i                        51       7      43       0       1       0      30                                     10529127108 Xepi                         721       1     489     231       0       0    2675                                     10529127116 Falanovo Brdo                 81      80       0       0       0       1     102                                     10529127124 Gaki}i                        50       0      50       0       0       0     137                                     10529127132 Gaqevo                       390     271     109       7       0       3     226                                     10529127159 Glavati~evo                  535      70     381      70      13       1    1398                                     10529127167 Gobelovina                   147       0     147       0       0       0     467                                     10529127175 Gorani                       365     106     257       1       1       0     182                                     10529127183 Goransko Poqe                192     157      35       0       0       0     182                                     10529127191 Gorica                       188       9     179       0       0       0     219                                     10529127205 Gorwa Vratna Gora             38      38       0       0       0       0     274                                     10529127213 Gorwe Vi{wevice              277     108     169       0       0       0     321                                     10529127221 Gorwi ^a`aw                   52       0      52       0       0       0     130                                     10529127230 Gorwi Gradac                  61       3      35      23       0       0      44                                     10529127248 Gorwi Nevizdraci             213      35     162      15       1       0     336                                     10529127256 Gostovi}i                     76      30      20      26       0       0     138                                     10529127264 Grabovci                     265       0     265       0       0       0     221                                     10529127272 Gradeqina                     91       0      91       0       0       0    1185                                     10529127299 Gru{~a                       368       0     358      10       0       0    2945                                     10529127302 Hasanovi}i                    91       0      91       0       0       0     517                                     10529127329 Heri}i                       105       0     105       0       0       0     230                                     10529127337 Homatlije                     95      63      32       0       0       0     199                                     10529127345 Homoqe                       204       2     202       0       0       0     250                                     10529127353 Hondi}i                       26       0      23       3       0       0     219                                     10529127361 Idbar                        435       9     395      31       0       0    4653                                     10529127370 Jasenik                      407      50     357       0       0       0    1186                                     10529127388 Javorik                        8       8       0       0       0       0     612                                     10529127396 Jezero                        79       0       4      73       2       0    1825                                     10529127400 Je`eprosina                   69       0      69       0       0       0     263                                     10529127418 Jo{anica                     220     220       0       0       0       0     270                                     10529127426 Kale                          46      12      34       0       0       0     138                                     10529127434 Kawina                       181      78      94       9       0       0     351                                     10529127442 Ka{i}i                       115       0     106       9       0       0     438                                     10529127469 Kowic                      13744    3050    6678    2549    1209     258     717                                     10529127477 Kostajnica                   420     419       0       0       0       1     437                                     10529127485 Koto                          63       0      63       0       0       0     264                                     10529127493 Krajkovi}i                    15       0      15       0       0       0      28                                     10529127507 Kralupi                      350      12     218       0       1     119     333                                     10529127515 Krti}i                        27      27       0       0       0       0     146                                     10529127523 Krupac                       127      34      93       0       0       0    1025                                     10529127531 Kru{}ica                     312       0     312       0       0       0    1037                                     10529127540 Kula                          77       0       0      77       0       0    1492                                     10529127558 Ladjanica                     58       6      52       0       0       0     537                                     10529127566 Lisi~i}i                     237       5     231       0       1       0     139                                     10529127574 Lokva                         77       0      77       0       0       0     195                                     10529127582 Luka                         170       0     170       0       0       0    6013                                     10529127604 Lukomir                      156       0     156       0       0       0    3523                                     10529127612 Luk{ije                      126     103      23       0       0       0     109                                     10529127639 Qesovina                      79      79       0       0       0       0     287                                     10529127647 Qubu~a                        87      13      74       0       0       0     786                                     10529127655 Quta                          77       8      33      33       3       0     494                                     10529127663 Mlade{kovi}i                 351     157      25     167       1       1     504                                     10529127671 Mokro                         33       8      25       0       0       0     286                                     10529127680 Mrkosovice                    50      50       0       0       0       0      70                                     10529127698 Obrenovac                     97      97       0       0       0       0      84                                     10529127701 Obri                         283     257      24       2       0       0     352                                     10529127710 Oxaci                        105       7      98       0       0       0     712                                     10529127728 Orahovica                    908     371     515       2      17       3    1025                                     10529127736 Orli{te                       22      22       0       0       0       0     138                                     10529127744 Otele`ani                    205      12     193       0       0       0     352                                     10529127752 Ov~ari                       758     356     292      91      12       7     254                                     10529127779 Pa~erani                      19       6      12       0       1       0     112                                     10529127787 Parsovi}i                    176      27     149       0       0       0     154                                     10529127795 Plavuzi                       58      58       0       0       0       0     556                                     10529127809 Podhum                       191      44     147       0       0       0     339                                     10529127817 Podora{ac                    744     110     602      14       8      10     186                                     10529127825 Pokoji{te                    250     167       5      75       3       0     177                                     10529127833 Poqe Bijela                 1827     650     954     195      19       9     387                                     10529127841 Po`etva                       63      60       0       3       0       0    2398                                     10529127850 Prevqe                        36       0      36       0       0       0      79                                     10529127868 Rade{ine                     116     114       0       2       0       0     394                                     10529127876 Raoti}i                      104      14      90       0       0       0     415                                     10529127884 Rasvar                         0       0       0       0       0       0     162                                     10529127892 Razi}i                       158       7     138      12       0       1    1963                                     10529127906 Rexi}i                        90       0      90       0       0       0     248                                     10529127914 Repovci                      180       0     176       4       0       0    1006                                     10529127922 Repovica                     195     169       3      23       0       0     252                                     10529127949 Ribari                       169       0     124      45       0       0     400                                     10529127957 Ribi}i                       552       0     546       0       6       0     501                                     10529127965 Seqani                       159      36     114       7       0       2     168                                     10529127973 Seonica                      252     145     101       1       4       1     136                                     10529127981 Sitnik                        30       0       0      30       0       0    1286                                     10529127990 Slavkovi}i                   133      58      75       0       0       0    1419                                     10529128007 Solakova Kula                176      82      94       0       0       0     510                                     10529128015 Sopot                         40       6      34       0       0       0     408                                     10529128023 Spiqani                      654     134     515       4       1       0    1447                                     10529128031 Stojkovi}i                   110       0     102       2       0       6    1948                                     10529128040 Strgonice                     24      11      13       0       0       0     223                                     10529128058 Studen~ica                   155       8     147       0       0       0     276                                     10529128066 Sulti}i                      209     105     104       0       0       0     148                                     10529128074 Svijen~a                     116       0     116       0       0       0     740                                     10529128082 [uwi                         315       0     315       0       0       0     400                                     10529128104 Tiwe                          75       0      71       4       0       0     564                                     10529128112 Tovarnica                     18      18       0       0       0       0      90                                     10529128139 Treboje                      287       0     284       0       0       3     227                                     10529128147 Tre{wevica                    96      95       0       1       0       0     579                                     10529128155 Trusina                      303     149     152       0       2       0     223                                     10529128163 Tuhobi}i                     146      12     134       0       0       0     879                                     10529128171 Turija                       377     372       0       0       2       3     740                                     10529128180 Ugo{}e                        52       0      52       0       0       0     513                                     10529128198 Velu{a                        48       0      48       0       0       0     290                                     10529128201 Vini{te                       53      19       0      30       4       0     337                                     10529128210 Vrbqani                      126       0     126       0       0       0     710                                     10529128228 Vrci                         237     134     103       0       0       0     347                                     10529128236 Vrdoqe                       198       0     176      22       0       0    1634                                     10529128244 Zabrdjani                     71       0      45      26       0       0     673                                     10529128252 Zabrdje                      251     241       0       0       4       6     155                                     10529128279 Zagorice                     204       0      65     139       0       0     400                                     10529128287 Zaslivqe                     244     240       0       3       1       0     376                                     10529128295 Zuki}i                       336      11     288      29       0       8     686                                     10529128309

Data is available. I was willing to share this much of it. Hopefully this is proof that I know what I am talking about, and that you are using poor amateur sources. There is absoultely no map that shows where any of the community areas are that you speak of, while the maps that I have brought up clearly show where the census tracks are. Therefore you need to seriously re-evaluate what you're doing and perhaps give up your efforts completely, seeing how wrong they are. (LAz17 (talk) 02:33, 22 November 2008 (UTC)).

Clearly the new bosnian statistics organization did not want to deal with so many subdivisions, so they combined many. Do tell me though, where do you find a map that shows where which mesna zajdnica/community area is? There is no such map. So you're mapping data that can not be mapped. Absurd, ain't it? I must admit one thing, and that is that a person can go insane with so many census tracks. So have fun with those there. In the meantime your maps have to go and be replaced by correct informations. (LAz17 (talk) 02:37, 22 November 2008 (UTC)).

BiH is the legal succesor of former SR BiH. are it's official pages. Data which you gave here differs from it a lot. For example Konjic; in your post it says it's a municipality with; 43636 people, 11354 Croats, 23791 Muslimans, 6645 Serbs, 1379 Yugoslavs and 467 others. Hower FZS, claims that that municipality had; 43878 people, 11513 Croats, 23815 Muslimans, 6620 Serbs, 1358 Yugoslavs and 572 others. This are the numbers which can be found also at and which were recognized by all parties (with exception for Kupres municipaly) before the war started. Laz, my dear, you've been hoxed. Somebody gave you false data... Or it is manufactured by Beograd's university (Milošević was still in power back then, wasn't he?). --Čeha (razgovor) 03:00, 22 November 2008 (UTC)


 * In the examples you give, the differences are very small, on the order of several percents. Probably, one set of numbers are initial numbers given by the statistical office, and the other set are cleaned numbers with duplicates removed and so on. Nikola (talk) 19:18, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

None of my data is hoaxed. Your data is the data that is hoaked. You do not even have the census track data, which was available for every census in the former yugoslavia. I believe that it is retarded to be arguing over data that is off by 100 er so people for the municipality. The point is that the final numbers add up in the end. Furthermore, some settlement areas in this new bosnia data may very well use census tracks that are outside of the actual municipalities. My data is perfectly legitimate, and it came directly from the national serbian statistics office, which succeeded the yugoslav one. In fact Belgrade is the only one that has legitimate data for 1991. Call up Zagreb... they do not even have their own data for 1991, they say they do not have it. It was then that I turned to belgrade, and they have everything, and I got this everything. Fact remains, my data is detailed to the census track... your data is chicken shit that for example shows 6 areas in glamoc when there was more like 30 areas. Now, you did say that glamoc had 7 areas with muslim majority before I posted my data... that means that you have this data somewhere but are hiding it on purpose. You therefore know that your stuff is a fraud. Where is this data of yours? Where? Lets see any data for census tracks in bosnia, and if you find any they will be same ones as these. (LAz17 (talk) 04:14, 22 November 2008 (UTC)).

One thing bothers me a lot. It is that the data that you give has no corresponding base map. Therefore the data is unreliable. They adjusted the data so that htey can make a basemap, this basemap - http://www.hdmagazine.com/bosnia/maps/b-all-l.jpg

All your data is from the Bosnian US lobby people. They are the ones that put that data up. You can find it here, http://www.hdmagazine.com/bosnia/maps.html

Your data is the bad data, not mine. (LAz17 (talk) 04:31, 22 November 2008 (UTC)).

Your source for data is not the nation bosnia/herzegovina statistics office... your source is the office of the FEDERATION - Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina - this is totaly different from a national statistics office. There exists no national statistics office in Bosnia and Herzegovina !!! They never carried out any census, all the data went to belgrade and belgrade was the one that did the census. Now that that is settled, lets get about to solving this problem that is going on. nd lets do it in a constructive manner. You have only delayed anything good from happening. You are very disruptive and support your maps because you have your own agenda and POV, which is reflected very well in your maps. (LAz17 (talk) 04:48, 22 November 2008 (UTC)). Tell me friend, do you have a basemap by which your settlement areas from your bad data set correlate to? I thought not, so since no basemap exists, lets move on to serious data. We have university of belgrade's map, and we have national geograhic's map... what more do you need do see that you are wrong? Must god tell you or something like that? (LAz17 (talk) 04:48, 22 November 2008 (UTC)).

Why si the 1991 map being deleted? We need it up at least a while longer in order to help solve this problem. I suppose that this map will have to do, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bosnia-ethnic-map.jpg, as it shows where the census tracks are, and this proves that my data is correct and that your data from the federation's statistic page is wrong. They do not include the census tracks as the belgrade maps show. (LAz17 (talk) 15:44, 22 November 2008 (UTC)).


 * The final solution we need is a SVG map of all municipalities and local communities in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Then it could be easily painted according to one set of data, or another set of data, and that would be undisputed. Nikola (talk) 19:18, 22 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I have never been able to find a blank map of census tracks or any level less than the municipality level. The only thing that I have found was those belgrade maps which show the boundaries, but not a blank map. I have been looking for a blank one for many years. It is probably available somewhere as a GIS file, but the fact is that even my contacts in Europe have nothing of the sort. (LAz17 (talk) 00:41, 23 November 2008 (UTC)).


 * So we have got checkable data from Bosnian and Herzegovian official pages [] and data which is claimed to be from Beograd's University and which is not equal to this. That is no dilema about that.
 * Those maps from Pax (and Belgrade's university) got to go because of copywrith issues.
 * If you have explicit reason to what is wrong with those two my maps please tell me and I'll change that.
 * --Čeha (razgovor) 20:26, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The bosnian data is incomplete/not accurate enough. On the other hand the belgrade data is accurate and we can see exactly where the boundaries of census tracks are, whereas we have no idea where your so called community areas are, as there is no official such subdivision. Your data is flawed, the nice case being Glamoc as you said... it has only 6 areas in your data, but as we see there is more like 30 census tracks and they correspond to the belgrade map. Your map does not correspond to that data... you have no basemap to show, and have not been able to come up with one. So, we can accept your data to be false, as we have nothing to associate that data with.
 * Your maps are bad and proof of that is the univeristy of belgrade 1991 map, as well as the national geographic map for 1991. therefore your map is clearly a POV map that shows more croats in certain areas that croats have claimed in bosnia, and more bosniaks too.
 * Pax's map is released with copywrite okay status, as the rights are released I believe. Belgrade Univeristys map from 1991 is questionable, but the 1981 is fine.
 * I have given you a big list of what is wrong with your maps... in return your answers are all flawful, as your data does not correspond to census tracks, but artitrary community areas, which are subdivisions that do not exist. You yourself claimed that serbs were not a majority anywhere in for example tomislav grad, but I got you data that they were. We had also issues with all those other municipalities, the south of glamoc for example. Do we really need to go over all those points in detail?
 * I will see to getting the 1991 belgrade map uploaded onto some page, so that this can be available to the readers of this discussion. But, we can already see the national geographic map, which is very similar to the belgrade map. The conclusion is that your maps are wrong, and must go. Our good map is the map by paxequilibrium.
 * Also, your data is not from any official bosnian and herzegovian page, as there is no official statistics place for the country. Your data is from the FEDEERATION, not the COUNTRY, and thus it is no wonder that your data includes never heard of community areas and major lack of census tracks. My data has census tracks, all of them actually.
 * The mistakes in your map are so apparent... it must be that you do not believe data from the univeristy of belgrade, from the yugoslav census, and from national geographic. If your personal POV is blinding you from seeing the problems with your map, then that really is too bad. It is no reason to keep these bad maps up.
 * (LAz17 (talk) 22:11, 24 November 2008 (UTC)).
 * What is most bothersome is that all your maps are based off of http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bosnia_and_Herzegovina/Image_discussion_Bih_1991.jpg&action=edit, not any data, because that data does not correspond to any map anywhere. No boundaries. All your maps are redraws of the maps which were deleted. Therefore what are we talking about? We're talking about your source being wrong, and that source is not any data, it's that fraud map from 1991 which was the 1981 copy. (LAz17 (talk) 22:27, 24 November 2008 (UTC))
 * LAZ sources don't agree with 1991 BiH census . Also, there is another source "Nacionalni sastav stanovništva - Rezultati za Republiku po opštinama i naseljenim mjestima 1991.", statistički bilten br. 234, Izdanje Državnog zavoda za statistiku Republike Bosne i Hercegovine, Sarajevo. But that is not available online. --Čeha (razgovor) 00:00, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * My sources are official yugoslav sources, as I have them for years 1921, 1931, 1948, 1953, 1961, 1971, 1981 and 1991. This is along with those. now, the wiki link source is, http://www.hdmagazine.com/bosnia/census.html, and that website is a biased website. (LAz17 (talk) 01:19, 25 November 2008 (UTC)).
 * this will help... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rjecina/Bosnian_census (LAz17 (talk) 01:30, 25 November 2008 (UTC)).
 * are official pages of office of Federation BiH. For further discussion see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rjecina/Bosnian_census.
 * --Čeha (razgovor) 08:02, 25 November 2008 (UTC)