Talk:Boss (video games)/Archive 1

Restructuring
I have gone through and restructured the article to make it a bit more readable. Comments? --Cornflake pirate 04:23, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Famous?
Some of the bosses listed as "famous" don't seem to be that well known. These are The Crystal Whale (The New Zealand Story), Doppelganger (R-Type), LeChuck (The Secret of Monkey Island), The 'Mothership' (Gradius), and The Swordmaster (The Secret of Monkey Island). I could be wrong, but their validity should be checked. -- LGagnon


 * I know Doppelganger is famous, at least I've seen mentions of it in many places, but I have no clue about the others. Fredrik 23:13, 9 May 2004 (UTC)


 * 'Famous' is of course completely subjective; some of those bosses I've never heard of, but that's because I don't play certain types of games. However:


 * Doppelganger is certainly famous - it's the most well-known R-Type boss and the only one with a name. Also, it makes a cameo appearance in a sequel.


 * The Crystal Whale might perhaps not be too well-known, but I put it in because it's quite unique - firstly for being a crystal whale, and secondly for the fact that it can only be killed after it eats you. :)


 * LeChuck: Anyone who's played The Secret of Monkey Island through to the end knows about him. Not sure if he counts as a boss, though.


 * The 'Mothership' is a recurring boss in the granddaddy of shoot 'em ups, Gradius, and is instantly familiar to anyone who knows that game. It might have some historical significance, but I'm not sure.


 * The Swordmaster is the ultimate opponent in Monkey Island's 'Insult Swordfighting', which itself is very, very famous. But I don't know if she counts as a boss either. ;)


 * Spottedowl 21:10, 10 May 2004 (UTC)


 * Perhaps using the word "famous" is asking for trouble, but it might not be all that subjective. Famous, the way I see it, ought to mean a name a decently large portion of gamers in general would recognize. This obviously includes Bowser Koopa, but probably not the Crystal Whale. One possibility if people want to include every boss they can think of is to create a list of video game bosses and there list all bosses that have or may be considered worthy of having a Wikipedia article, keeping only a few of the most important ones here. Fredrik 22:10, 10 May 2004 (UTC)


 * I added links and removed the Crystal Whale. It would be nice if someone could create articles for all the bosses in the list now... Fredrik 14:38, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

R-Type boss name
Hmm... isn't the name of that boss "Dobkeratops", though? - Fredrik (talk) 23:54, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)


 * Google says it has several names, but Doppelganger is the only one I've heard. Spottedowl 01:34, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)


 * Dobkeratops seems to give more relevant matches, and it's the name I read today in Super PLAY magazine. Fredrik (talk) 01:38, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)


 * It only gives more relevant matches because it's a unique name, whereas Doppelganger is also a German word. I don't know... we could list both, or maybe put it to a vote. If we can find enough people interested in R-Type, anyway. ;) Spottedowl 08:08, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)


 * Dobkeratops sounds more badass :P It also makes for an unambiguous article name. - Fredrik (talk) 14:30, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)


 * I doubt anyone's going to write an article on it. It might be famous but it's not particularly significant. And anyway, Wikipedia is about facts, not badassity. ;p I'd say just change it if you want and see if anyone objects. Spottedowl 16:03, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

clarify small items -- or possibly typos
What does the "versus" in this line mean?


 * In versus fighting games such as Street Fighter II ...
 * "Versus," the colloquial term meaning "one-on-one," as opposed to "scrolling" fighters like Final Fight.

Also, this image caption says "flashing in red" but I don't see any red in the picture. Should this be "magenta"?


 * Baxter Stockman, the boss of the first level of Turtles in Time. Note that he is flashing red, indicating that he is close to defeat.
 * He is indeed flashing red - it's just a little bit difficult to see because (a) it is not actually flashing in the picture and (b) Baxter's non-flashing color mixed with the red (as the "flashing" works in most games) makes it seem a little more magenta-like. Ian Pugh 03:53, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Vote on bosses appropriate for this article
Well, thing is, I don't want to add certain bosses without input from the editors of this page (although, I took the liberty of adding King Dedede and others). So, here's some bosses, and you guys tell me if you think they're applicable:


 * Bald Bull - Well-known boxer in the Punch-Out!! series
 * Super Macho Man - Final boss of Super Punch-Out!!
 * Rudy the Clown - Final boss of Wario Land 3 and Dr. Mario 64
 * Smithy - Final boss of popular Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
 * Sir Grodus - Third-to-last boss of popular Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
 * Kammy Koopa - Repeat enemy in the Paper Mario games, second-to-last boss in Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door along with Bowser
 * Specter - Final boss in the Ape Escape games
 * Dark Matter - Most common final boss in the Kirby games
 * Nightmare - Final boss of Kirby's Adventure
 * Seraph Lamington - Final boss of Disgaea: Hour of Darkness
 * Lord Sturm - Final boss of the Advance Wars games, and former leader of the Black Hole army
 * Giovanni - Leader of Team Rocket in the Pokémon games
 * Gary - Final boss in Pokémon
 * Majora - Final boss in The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
 * Vaati - Final boss in various Capcom-made Zelda games
 * Malificent - One of the more powerful bosses in Kingdom Hearts
 * Pokey - Giygas' top minion in EarthBound
 * Metroid Queen, or Omega Metroid, or Metroid Prime - One of these from the Metroid series
 * Lord Crump - Minion of Grodus in Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
 * Shadow Queen - Final boss of Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (although, I think for her and Dark Matter, there should be a separate section for "final final bosses")

Comments? -- A Link to the Past 14:12, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

Stupid edits
The following bosses added by that Anon are foolish:


 * Crulti
 * Dark Link
 * Dark Melkast
 * Mezarkus
 * Nemasis the Evil God
 * Satan
 * Skull Kid
 * Stephanie Tanner

There you go. -- A Link to the Past 00:33, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

History section
Someone put a history section in the article stating that some Americans invented bosses in the 70s. I corrected it to identify that boss has Japanese roots, not American. But the bit I wrote needs editing. 57.66.10.36 18:20, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

History section revised
Dnd was written in 1975. It had a boss. Nintendo's first video game was not released until 1977. The Atari 2600 was not released until 1977. Thus, dnd predates Nintendo and Atari by two years. Neither had 'bosses' even in 1977. Space invaders was released in 1978, and it did not have a boss. Ratwod

Split the article
I think we should take the lists of "noteworthy" bosses and superbosses and put them in a seperate article, then have no more than 5 examples of each in this article. And the bosses that get listed should be varied; like no filling it up with classic Nintendo bosses (Bowser OR Ganon NOT Both), or Final Fantasy bosses (Kefka OR Sephiroth NOT Both). -- VederJuda 15:58, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree that the list of bosses is too long. How about a separate article which is a list of bosses? -- Ratwod


 * I heartily agree. Some parts of the article really look like everyone wanted to add their favourite boss of the type concerned, kind of non-encycopaedic. -- Bakabaka 14:32, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Hear Hear! I've added my two cents in this talk page here.  &mdash;Metamorf 15:28, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Random Boss Syndrome?
Could someone please clarify the source of the phrase 'Random Boss Syndrome'? I've never even heard of that term outside this wikipedia article and googling it merely brings up mirrored articles, and so I wondered if it was a case of the author of the article making up the term.

Video game bosses
I created a page entitled List of video game bosses. I moved the section on bosses and superbosses to that page. -- Ratwod

Hm...
The lists of Trick and Unbeatable bosses are starting to get awfully long again...Time to give them their own articles with just a few listed here, perhaps? Hrimfaxi 10:01, 10 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I've removed both lists; the sheer size of them was getting ridiculous, the article just doesn't need twenty or thirty different examples of a particular type of boss. If anyone wants to take the old version and add the lists in their own category to List of video game bosses they can be my guest, but what we need here is to pick out a few good examples by consensus and keep to them. Hrimfaxi 08:10, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I think you might have cut out some useful information from the Unbeatable Boss section when you simply cut out the lists. I agree that the lsits had to go, they were seemingly pointless as different people came in and dropped in their favorite boss without consideration of how bloated the article was becoming; "example creep" if you will. I'm going to read it again and see if it warrants a second (short) paragraph. -- VederJuda 12:47, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, I don't doubt it, but the thing needs to be totally re-written because it represents an amazingly large page section on just one thing. Personally, I'd point to the classic Trick Boss [the mirror image in Prince of Persia, which the player couldn't defeat in combat because it would mirror any hits to itself against the player; you could only beat it by sheathing your sword and walking into it, whereupon it vanished] and point to something like Nemesis or the Shagohod on the runway as an unbeatable boss, though I know there's a better example than those in there. I'd say a maximum of three bosses of any particular type, with each one significantly different in some way [ie, the Mirror Image, Psycho Mantis and one of the various 'heal the boss to death' encounters from the Final Fantasy games as trick bosses, since they use substantially different tricks and are from three genres]. Hrimfaxi 06:05, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Shouln't there be a spoiler tag?
I mean, there are quite a few spoilers on this page, a spoiler warning would be perfectly logical. --68.79.114.187 23:10, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I will be bold, and drop it on. --87.112.90.216 10:01, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Bosses where you can't die
Should the article make mention of bosses in certain video games where you CANNOT be killed, like the Golem Boss in Chrono Trigger, or Shenzi, Banzai, and Ed in Kingdom Hearts II? In both cases, they aren't capable of attacking you, but they do psyche you out.

Robotnik image
If Eggman's image has to be included in this article then somebody change it to an image of him from a GAME (preferably the original Sonic) you can't use a still cell from an animation in a section detailing what a videogame boss is.

Massive copy-edit
I've just gone and been bold-as-brass and made a massive copy-edit of this article. As it stood before, reading it was utterly headache-inducing with paragraph-long sentences and examples packed ad-nauseum into said paragraphs. I've cleaned up the entire section "Types of Bosses", giving it clearer sentence structure and organising examples into bullet lists or separate paragraphs. Content should have remained the same (if you feel that I compromised it in any way, that wasn't my intention).

There's still one thing that bugs me with this article:


 * It's... just... too... bloody... long!

Given the nature of this article, having 2000 examples to illustrate each point is just nuts. I believe we need to discuss paring back the number of examples to an exemplary few for each Boss type. &mdash;Metamorf 14:02, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I also agree; the article could be much shorter. I know people are huge fans of bosses from their favorite video games, but it's stupid to try to please everyone. Also, what's up with the 50 references to "Paper Mario"? WTF was that game? Secretagentwang 18:04, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Article length
This article is exceedingly long and several redundant examples seem to be added as mere fancruft. We should get this thing severely cleaned up. ☢  Ҡ i∊ ff   ⌇  ↯  02:01, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Hidden Bosses
I've cut back the vast tracts of 'hidden boss' examples. They added nothing to the article, contained game guide info and were excessively spoilerific.--Nydas 16:18, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I also suggest deleting the 'strong' and 'stylish' boss types.--Nydas 16:27, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

That is IT!
I have had it with these motherfarking bosses in this motherfarking article! I'm calling for a rewrite. Here are my thoughts.

Examples for each section should be kept to 3 at best, up to 5 if absolutely necessary. Each example should also state (briefly!) WHY that particular boss is an exemplary specimen of that particular boss type. (Bowser, for example, is one of, if not THE most famous final boss in the video game world. The necessity of including Bowser is obvious. On the other hand, can your average gamer tell you who Sardius, of Super Ghosts n' Ghouls is? No. His inclusion is pointless.) Anything (be it the boss or worse, the game iself) with a redlink should be removed without mercy. Concerning the many supposed boss types: we need to trim those down, badly. SEVENTEEN boss types is a little excessive. Let's aim for fifteen. Even ten.

My suggestions for trimming the categories are as follows:
 * 1) Grunt Bosses can be briefly mentioned under Mini-Bosses.
 * 2) Non-Antagonist Boss isn't even really a boss, take it out.
 * 3) Rename Stylish Boss "Quick Boss" and put an example of a boss that players have to race. (After all, just because you're quick doesn't make you stylish; and who defines stylish anyway? Quick is less subjective.)
 * 4) Combine Trick Boss and Puzzle Boss, call it...oh, I don't know. Keep the name Trick Boss. Most Puzzle Bosses involve some kind of trick anyway, as opposed to a serious puzzle. (For example, the bosses in Ocarina of Time. One has to utilize some kind of trick [like an item found earlier in the dungeon] to defeat them. That's not a puzzle, you just have to know the trick to defeat them.)
 * 5) Combo Boss...I'm not sure. I think it could be merged out somewhere, or even deleted outright. It's not THAT notable.
 * 6) Multi-Stage Boss? Merge to Final Boss. Multi-stagers are almost exclusively final bosses.

I'm going to try to work up a presentable draft, sometime within the next few days. Until then, leave feedback, please! &spades; P  M  C  &spades; 08:58, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Go for it. This article is a nightmare. I suggest booting 'strong' and 'stylish' bosses as original research. Look at the sentence for the 'strong boss': "This boss is difficult to defeat because it has a lot of energy and/or deals a large amount of damage." Sounds like a typical boss to me. The 'stylish boss' has very weak examples. I would also get rid of the 'trick boss', and instead discuss the idea of 'boss vulnerability' in a seperate section, noting that some bosses may have quirky weaknesses which go beyond what is normal, and sometimes this may be the only way to beat them.--Nydas 19:44, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, Strong Boss ought to go, as bosses that are not "strong" that way are an anomaly, not the other way around. Another thought - what do you think of using GameFaqs' yearly Chracter Battles to determine notability of boss characters? Since the contests are pretty much based on popularity, non-notable bosses end up at the bottom, while notable ones end up on top. Could we possibly make appearance on that list a criteria for inclusion as an example boss? (And if not, we should try to draw from those bosses who appear in the Battles where we can.) After all, the community determines notability, and GameFaqs represents a huge subset of the gamer population. (By the by, the contest archives live here: Gamefaqs) &spades; P  M  C  &spades; 23:11, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * It's a reasonable idea, although I can see a couple of problems. The first is that a boss's popularity may be based on their characteristics as a fictional antagonist, rather than on their... erm... 'bossness'. The second is that going simply on popularity may skew the examples away from certain genres, for example scrolling shoot 'em ups.--Nydas 12:32, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

True. Still, I think it could be a reasonable starting place, as long as we don't draw every example from it. Also, apparently in 2005, EGM did a "Top 10 Video Game Bosses" list. If we could find it, we could use that for some ideas. &spades; P  M  C  &spades; 23:03, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * My personal thoughts, to potentially be considered:


 * 1) The Strong Boss section needs to exist, as it describes bosses that are invulverable for a duration with brief moments of vulnerability (during which their appearance usually physically changes). Perhaps it should be renamed, or merged with "Trick Boss"?
 * 2) Stylish Boss is also something with important fragments. Maybe a word would be "Quick Boss", or even "Peer Boss"? A boss who has similarities to the character, sometimes even using the same attacks and defenses. For instance, the Sonic the Hedgehog game series has no Stylish/Quick/Peer boss until you fight Knuckles in Sonic and Knuckles.
 * 3) What's wrong with Non-antagonist Boss? It is indeed a boss, as you can lose the game by losing the friendly competition.
 * 4) "Optional Boss" or "Hidden Boss" is a better name than Super Boss, as not all optionals are super-powered.
 * 5) Final Boss, Mini-Boss, Non-antagonist Boss, Super Boss, and Stalker Boss all have to do with the significance or characterization of bosses. The other categories ("Team Boss", "Trick Boss", etc.) have to do with the actual boss battle, the boss's strengths, and how it must be defeated. These should probably be two different sets of categories.
 * 6) The article currently has *way* too many examples from the Kingdom Hearts games. :-) -BaronGrackle (69.151.177.115 01:35, 9 October 2006 (UTC))


 * Bosses whose vulnerability changes with time could be discussed in a single sentence. Same with peer bosses. 'Peer boss' is quite a good name... but we can't promote original terms on Wikipedia. I still think it's better to have a section on boss vulnerability rather than lots of vague, overlapping categories. They just attract mountains of 'examples'. Now we have 'Odd couple bosses' - presumably we could have 'Immobile bosses', 'Flying bosses', 'Background bosses', 'Segmented bosses', 'Screen-filling bosses' etc. It's endless.--Nydas 19:14, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I know, that's the problem with categories. There's always the potential to get more detailed, and then they start getting stupidly specific and terribly overlapping. We should determine a certain number of broad categories, and stick with them. "Minor categories" (like "Odd Couple Boss") should be reduced to a sentence-long mention in their parent category. (For example, "Certain team bosses are composed of two dissimilar characters, often complementing one another's weaknesses, instead of the standard identical team.") I also agree with BaronGrackle that we should separate the categories into "significance or characterization" of boss, versus "actual boss battle." &spades; P  M  C  &spades; 22:27, 9 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep all the categories, and redirect them to thier own articles. --Luigifan 20:37, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't do that. Many of these terms are not in common usage, and creating articles on them would be original research or unencylopedic. I could see an article on final bosses working, but that's about it.--Nydas 12:59, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Boss invention
You guys had let someone write in this article that American Dungeons and Dragons game designers had invented bosses. I read all this article and you know a lot about bosses. Why would you let such BS be in your article? They look like they go all over wikipedia saying they invented bosses and if someone says it's not true they just erase it again. Maybe someone here knows enough to write how that's not true.

This article is still a horrible mess
I'm going to remove some of the worst orginal research and neologisms that have appeared recently. But this article remains awful. As I've said before, the entire structure is questionable, consisting of listy 'types' and 'examples'. It's barely encyclopedic, and completely impenetrable to non-gamers.--Nydas 23:07, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

bosses that give you stuff
Shouldn't there be at least a small section regarding that?--Marhawkman 11:24, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Removed 'Strong' and 'Stylish' boss types
I've culled these two boss types from the article. The terms 'strong boss' and 'stylish boss' are not commonly used gaming terms, with these specific meanings. "This boss is difficult to defeat because it has a lot of energy and/or deals a large amount of damage" simply applies to almost any sort of boss. It's not remotely informative and it's basically original research as well. It's not Wikipedia's job to invent new words for things. The examples given are very weak as well.--Nydas (Talk) 18:17, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Criticism
That section is in severe need of sources. Personally, I have a hard time believing that many gamers have grown tired of the concept of bosses as a whole. 199.126.137.209 01:39, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

while I know my opinion is worth little here (I am not even speaking as an active member ATM) I would like someone to nominate this article for removal. It is taking space and confusing readers that are looking for "real" information regarding bosses in video games


 * This entire article takes up way too much space. I find it fascinating that the authors of the WWII article managed to clock in at under half the length of this monstrosity.  Specifically, too much time is spent speculating about the "types" of bosses, which neither make any objective case nor cite any references.  The fact that the authors of this section choose to reference only recent console games belies the current article's amatuerish nature.


 * I disagree and agree. While an article of bosses would be highly anticipated by my and others opinion. someone should make one, as I consider this article rather... stupid. Besides, where are the sources? Original research. Someone should make one from scratch.


 * Besides being shoddily written, the section is loaded with too many abstract concepts and not enough raw meat. As a programmer, I'd think the most objective way to typify video game "bosses" would be by the various automata that make up their behaviors. In that sense, there are really only three kinds of "boss" behavior:  Pattern, Hunt/Flee, and Random, with various mixtures thereof.  Three strong, brief examples might suffice, but only as an examination of these base automata.


 * Also, rather than an extended soliloquy on the dramatic purpose of "bosses", it might be more useful to jot a brief sentence that redirects to a new article.--63.139.103.98 20:43, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


 * You can find books, documentaries, and what all else about World War II. Where does one go to discover as much information as possible over the concept of the video game boss? -BaronGrackle (216.63.105.147 01:09, 27 September 2006 (UTC))

None of the reviews cited in Metacritic regarding Red Faction II say anything about the boss battles. Which source had a review where the game's boss fights were criticised? --Warp L. Obscura 11:38, 27 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Does anyone know a Red Faction II review that criticises the boss battles? --Warp L. Obscura 14:27, 4 May 2007

(UTC)

Boss battles do not minimize the game realism, they have also changed from (e.g major weakness ect) to being hard simply by using great AI or simply by being superior in terms of weapons or a superior being. (e.g a guy with a gun vs a tank ect) Not all bosses Have great weaknesses that have to be exploited. The game shadow of the colossus consists of bosses only(and is considered a good game by standard opinions) ,is proof that bosses are still used, if not more than before. (in my opinion this article is ridiculing Wikipedia`s standards) someone should remove that clearly anti-boss segment.

Massive removal
it might be harsh but a lot of this article consists of original research and again I hope someone care to remove the obviously personal segment stating that bosses are not used/needed any more in video games. I've just deleted huge tracts of what are obviously neologisms and original research. Harsh, I know, but I don't think we were ever going to find references for this terminology. I believe the way forward is for us to reference-up the history and common critical responses (positive and negative) to the presence of bosses in games, and then ensure anything else added is referenced and absolutely not original research. The article currently has multiple spoilers for multiple different games. I'd like to find an alternative to that if possible. Sockatume 18:42, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
 * To pre-empt any wikipouting, I'd like to point out that some time ago I was responsible for paragraphs of the "bosses in game structure" and "criticism" sections, both heavy with original research. I'm deleting some of my own writing on videogames here. Sockatume 18:46, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
 * An IP restored the blob. I've removed it again, and would invite further discussion here before replacing it. I've kept the 'Bosses in game structure' section. It's still horrible, but at least it's prose rather than a list, and it makes the article slightly more meaningful to non-gamers.--Nydas (Talk) 08:29, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Original research does seem to be a large problem in this article. I made a small edit to improve some prose earlier, but a closer look at the whole article indicates that nothing in the article is properly sourced. Given how far the video game industry has come, it's possible that someone reputable has written a professional article or discussion of the history of bosses. Finding something like this should be the first priority before any other changes are made, and then the article would have to be re-written to focus on the sources found. I realise I'm new, and probably don't have a large amount of "pull" at Wikipedia :), but I want to help, so please don't take my comments as arrogance or insolence. Leebo86 21:45, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Ideally, I wouldn't want to think that any editor has any more 'pull' than anyone else. Regarding the article, the main problem is that most articles about bosses aren't written in a way which can be easily adapted into a complete encyclopedic article. Usually they're in the style of 'the top 20 most kickass bosses ever' and suchlike. Nothing comprehensible to non-gamers is likely to come from such sources. What would be good are discussions of bosses from game design textbooks.--Nydas (Talk) 19:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmph... go ahead, destroy my favorite article on wikipedia, you changed a page I loved into a page I hate. BassxForte 02:21, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

The Half-Life "boss" and others who don't fight
Would someone like to incorporate non-fighting bosses, such as the mysterious character in Half-Life, into the article? I don't play video games of this sort enough to do so, but it seems this belongs here, too. Pro hib it O ni o ns (T) 14:01, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Is he even a 'boss', or simply a fictional antagonist/mystery figure? I think we should avoid classifying bosses according to their fictional role, because that's already covered elsewhere.--Nydas (Talk) 18:39, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Load bearing boss
There's this little article, load bearing boss. I saw it when a friend posted it and said "look what I made!" It was uncited, completely orphaned, and had out of context links, but I fixed that. I kinda expected it to grow, but apparently he's lost interest. It could probably be made into a paragraph in 'types of bosses,' ya know? Spriteless 14:48, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It may be because I'm an inclusionist, but I like this article. If it ever gets merged, I hope this becomes a redirect that leads straight to the blurb on the main "boss" page. Siyavash 15:06, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

A load-bearing boss is a specific type of plot device which is linked from the page listing plot devices. I think that makes it worthy of it's own article. 66.167.88.152 20:01, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Right now Load bearing boss redirects to here, but the term doesn't appear anywhere in the article. I'm going to recreate the other article, and if anyone wants to merge them again, make sure that the info from the other article makes it to this one, preferably in a way that doesn't mess up the flow of the page. --Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 01:55, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Why not just delete it? It's not a widely used concept in gaming, somebody's just made it up.-- Nydas (Talk) 09:54, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

The phrase about it should definitely be deleted from this article. There is no source using the term "load bearing boss." It looks to be a joke someone made up, and is not recognized by anyone I've ever asked about gaming.Happinessiseasy 17:12, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Massive removal 2
An IP reinstated the vast listy blob of 'bosses by type'; I've removed it. It was almost pure original research without any references or even the possibility of them. Most of the terms were neologisms without any hint of widespread use. Who has said that "Ugh-Zan III from Serious Sam is classified as a puzzle, giant, strong, final and unbeatable boss"? Nobody. If I were to come along and say that he's actually classified as a ultra, final, intermittently-vulnerable, projectile-using, ground-shaking boss, how could we ever decide who was right?--Nydas (Talk) 13:49, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Removed it again.-- Nydas (Talk) 07:12, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

They give up?
"Most games with bosses often have one as the last obstacle in the way of victory. This "final" or "last" boss is often the most difficult enemy in the game. A notable exception is the Gradius and Grandia series, where the last bosses don't defend themselves and are defeated quite effortlessly."

Haven't played those games. Is this true, or just someone complaining about how easy certain bosses are? I mean, Final Fantasy X-2's last boss was a joke, but I don't think they made him weak on purpose. Master Deusoma 00:30, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

bosses are often made weak on purpose like the giant brain from the gradius games not attacking at all and dieing even if not being attacked by the antagonist. OH and not least the leader from the hulk Snes game. As he simply stands laughing away until defeated with an uppercut. There are bound to be far more bosses of this kind. (just stating examples)

In FF7 the very last bout w/ sephiroth is more of a storyline fight. The final form of Zophar from lunar 2 is much the same "whoo the main hero and the main girl are fighting together again." FFX's final boss is also impossible to lose against - all characteres have auto life on them.--Mr Bucket 21:21, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * off you stupid robot. We don't give a ****. 77.97.245.64 09:09, 1 December 2007 (UTC)DanZieBoy

Foozle
Should mention the concept in RPGs of The Foozle, which is usually used in a derogatory way. JAF1970 19:57, 10 August 2007 (UTC)