Talk:Boston Terrier/Archive 1

Untitled
An adorable puppy. It would be lovely to have one of her when she grows up too :) -- sannse (talk) 18:36, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Positive & negative
I beleive it is important to state both positive and negative traits in any breed of dog.I am a breeder and hear all too often about issues people have with their new pups because they were told only the positive things and not about some of the bad traits that could come out.A dog is an animal it is subject to animal behavioral traits.-- Patrikkennel (talk)Sept 2,2004


 * I agree! As long as it's done in a NPOV manner (not, e.g., as in "these are stupid dogs" or "this is an ugly breed" :-) ). We want to present the facts. As a breeder, you probably know a bunch of stuff about this breed in general; I'd be glad to see it. Elf | Talk 19:54, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I agree with that statement because Boston Terriers have many conditions and people need to know what they are HersheysChocolateLover (talk) 22:08, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Breed Description and "Fair Use"
The description given for the boston terrier is not very definitive. I am curious, does using the AKC standard (i.e. The AKC standard describes the Boston Terrier as a "a lively, highly intelligent, smooth coated, short-headed, ....")) to describe this breed constitute "Fair Use" (I assume the AKC breed standards are copyrighted).

I acknowledge that the AKC does not have the only standard for various breeds, but since the Boston is the first original American (i.e. USA) breed, it seems to be the most reasonable and authoritative source for a description.


 * What we've ("we" meaning some random people editing dog breed articles) tried to do with other breeds is to take a look at all the standards and come up with a general description in our own words, that way there's no issue of copyright and we also give a better worldwide view of the dog (so it's not specific to a single country). When there are notable variations among the different standards, we usually just add a statement to the effect that "xxx varies among the different kennel club standards".  Elf | Talk 03:50, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Bug
Please verify the article Bug (dog breed) contributed by an anot not long time ago. mikka (t) 01:46, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Why remove the "Originally bred for dogfighting"?
Re the change on 01/02/2006, I agree that Boston's have been, and continue to be, bred for companionship (the ultimate companions IMHO), but it is also true that they were originally bred for dog-fighting. This history is no longer included in the current article. Since changes in Wiki typically should not redact existing information, the current trend should have been added later in the paragraph or the dog-fighting comment should have been moved to the History section (perhaps a better choice).

I think the dog-fighting comment should be added to the history section. They are now very great companions. Popcorn296 (talk) 21:11, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Some of the breed's _ancestors_ were bred for dog-fighting. The breed was established as a companion-animal breed and I doubt that any actual Bostons were ever used in dog-fighting. Dog fighting is a long way back in their ancestry. 65.79.173.135 (talk) 19:28, 1 October 2014 (UTC)Will in New Haven65.79.173.135 (talk) 19:28, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

The breed itself was never intended for dog fighting. Some dogs used in the breeds creation came from fighting lines, but it was intended as a companion breed. Large round eyes set at the corner of the head prone to injury isn't conducive to dog fighting. PAAllem (talk) 14:02, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
 * If this is your opinion, then it is original research, which is not allowed on Wikipedia articles. If you want to correct the article then support any changes with verifiable, reliable sources. --10mmsocket (talk) 14:05, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Temperment Section Source??
Can anyone verify the source of the temperment section? During my initial online research of this breed I came accross this exact paragraph at the following link: dogbreedinfo.com. Drogin 14:03, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * good catch - someone replaced the temperament section with text from that site on the 2nd.  I reverted that persons change.  - Trysha (talk) 19:10, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Health
In the health section when the breathing problem is discussed, the author is describing an inverted sneeze... you shoud NOT cover the nose to make a Boston breathe through its mouth, the best thing to do is to stroke its neck or head and soothe the dog by talking quietyly so it will calm down. Getting excited yourself or forcing the dog to try and breathe another way will only exacerbate the problem!
 * I agree and I just changed it and added a reference. --Joelmills 01:41, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I updated this to be NPOV and factual only. Medical issues or behavioral issues should be discussed between the owner and ones vet, not obtained through advice of Wiki. Alexkraegen (talk) 23:33, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Separating the Appearance into smaller paragraphs.
I believe that separating the Appearance paragraphs into smaller paragraphs or sentences hurts readability. Any other opinions?

Full disclosure: I wrote the original paragraphs that were changed prior to creating an account. Lightning91 04:27, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

An External link about Boston Terriers
I recently added a link to the Boston Terrier page which I thought was very relevant and useful. However it was deleted and I was asked to discuss it before submitting it. I think it is a very useful link full of valid, correct and interesting information on the breed. Let me know what you think. Can I put it on the page?

Great Information on Boston Terriers

Mrmoocole 11:45, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

i dont see why it shouldnt be, it helped me to gather relevant useful information on my dog winston ( a boston terrier)

--Emiliedock123 18:45, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks im glad I could help. I will add the link then. Anyone who has any objections are welcome to contact me.

Mrmoocole 21:04, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Origination
(moved from above)

Atention:  The Boston Terrier, is named after the place Boston in Lincolnshire, England.....the dog does not come from Boston America.. someone please change it!!
 * I couldn't find anything online supporting that assertion, and my Encyclopedia of the Dog supports a North American origination. --Joelmills 01:41, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

One story has it that coachmen of wealthy families developed the breed by crossing Bulldogs and the now extinct English White Terrier to create a new dog-fighting breed. Another account is that a Bostonian named Robert C. Hooper imported an Bulldog/English Terrier cross named Judge from England in 1865 because he reminded Hooper of a dog he'd had in his childhood. Yet another story is that Hooper purchased Judge from another Bostonian, William O'Brian, around 1870.

While we may never know which story is true, the fact is that there was, indeed, a dog named Judge, and that from him, came the breed we know today as the Boston Terrier.

According to The Complete Dog Book, Judge was "a well-built, high-stationed dog" weighing about 32 pounds. He was a dark brindle color with a white blaze on his face and a square, blocky head.

Amazingly, Judge was bred only once. From a union with a 20-pound white dog named Burnett's Gyp (or Kate) who belonged to Edward Burnett, of Southboro, Massachusetts, came one puppy, a male named Well's Eph.

https://dogtime.com/dog-breeds/boston-terrier#/slide/1 Claverhouse (talk) 00:37, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

GALLERY DELETED
I've relocated this image gallery into the talk section for possible future use with this article. I've read over the WikiProject Dogs and I don't understand why Galleries are being deleted. It's only a matter of time before the Boston Terrier article gets new images and starts to look cluttered again. For the period of time this article had an image gallery...the page itself remained somewhat stable... v/r Peter Rimar Chitrapa 12:41, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The main policy supporting the deletion of galleries from the dog breed pages (something done on a category-wide scale, and not arbitrarily to one page or another) is WP:What Wikipedia is not specifically the reference to images. The applicable interpretation of the policy would be Wikipedia is not a gallery for images of your pets. For a single thing (such as a dog) a gallery isn't necessary and creates a problem. For something such as an artist with a canon of work, or a city/geographical region with many notable features the gallery is a good way to showcase these outside text insertion. In dog breed pages (i.e. just one animal) having a gallery invites users to post pictures (often of their personal pets) without considering encyclopedic merit. In other words, we will always be policing dog pages when it comes to excessive images, but having galleries invites contributions that are to be discouraged. Making the article stable by allowing a gallery that violates policy is not a solution. Tolerating unencylopedic content in one area to cleanup another is unacceptable. Also, I only deleted galleries that did not have encyclopedic merit, I left a few limited galleries that were within text sections and had a clear scope. Such as a gallery showing the different breed standards for color or size which helped the text, had a clear limit to how much they could be expanded and did not aesthetically interrupt the article. All "Gallery" sections without encyclopedic content (such as the above) were deleted. VanTucky 18:52, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Terrier or terrier
Is the breeds name spelt with a capital or lower t in terrier? The article is named Boston terrier, with a lower t, but a capital T is used fairly consistently throughout the article. Which is it? Jerazol 06:09, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Per the AKC page it is Terrier with a T (capital T). We should probably standardize on one format for the article. http://www.akc.org/breeds/boston_terrier/index.cfm is the page referenced. Alexkraegen (talk) 23:37, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Q on that dogfighting thing
From article: "The Boston Terrier breed originated around 1870, when Robert C. Hooper of Boston purchased a dog known as Hooper's Judge...Judge's specific lineage is unknown..." (then there is a lot of speculation, despite the fact that it says "unknown.")

Is there citable evidence that Hooper's Judge or any of his get were used for dogfighting? If not, the article should not say "originally bred for fighting..."

Bulldogs were kept for fighting; some types of bulldogs were crossed with terriers and some of those were used for fighting. (And some became pets of Queen Victoria of England, and then were bred as fashionable pets.) So somewhere, before the breed of Boston Terrier originated, some dogs were used for dogfighting. Maybe or maybe not a distant ancestor of the Boston Bull Terrier.

What needs to be cited is evidence that Hooper's Judge (as the first of the breed) was used in dog fights.

And the Boston Terrier certainly isn't a fighting dog NOW, so why is it linked as to "Dog fighting breeds"?

Hafwyn (talk) 23:11, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Boston Terrier with Blue Eyes
Perhaps we should add this in or make a separate section? Boston Terriers have been known to have 1 or 2 blue eyes. Bostons with blue eyes might have hearing problems (born deaf) or develop hearing problems later on. Scientists have even research and found the gene correlated with this problem.

[[Media:]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/theMINI/6530_126009910931_753865931_3434295.jpg] [[User:KiNgFrOmHeLl|KiNgFrOmHeLl]] (talk) 01:07, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

I would like to read more about that as well. My boston terrier has one blue eye... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.172.67.108 (talk) 21:01, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Copyright violations
The following passages appear both on this site and on the AKC site (reference [3]). I presume they are original with the AKC and not with Wikipedia, so I'm deleting them as copyright violations. I think someone should take a look for other copyright violations as well.

"The head is in proportion to the size of the dog and the expression indicates a high degree of intelligence."

"the Boston Terrier is a lively and highly intelligent breed"

"The body is rather short and well knit, the limbs strong and neatly turned, the tail is short and no feature is so prominent that the dog appears badly proportioned. The dog conveys an impression of determination, strength and activity, with style of a high order; carriage easy and graceful. A proportionate combination of "Color and White Markings" is a particularly distinctive feature of a representative specimen. "Balance, Expression, Color and White Markings" should be given particular consideration in determining the relative value of GENERAL APPEARANCE to other points." Duoduoduo (talk) 17:49, 16 November 2010 (UTC)


 * On further checking, I've removed one more copyright-violating sentence. These passages were inserted on 17 May 2009 by an anon who has never made any other Wikipedia edits, so I think there's nothing else to worry about here.  Duoduoduo (talk) 18:36, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

The entire "Description" section was a blatant copy and paste from the American Kennel Club website. It has been blanked and tagged for copyright violation. http://www.akc.org/breeds/boston_terrier/index.cfm Wikipedianinthehouse (talk) 00:20, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Lifespan
My reasons for reverting the longevity change are as follows:


 * 1) Hard data is valuable. The 2004 KC survey is one of the most comprehensive surveys we have. If there's one that is better and more up-to-date, it would undoubtedly be more desirable.
 * 2) The Continental Kennel Club's information was misrepresented. That page states that the breed "can easily live between 12 and 14 years old," which is not an assertion that the average lifespan is 14 years.
 * 3) None of my breed books gave a range with a ceiling greater than 15 (and that was only one book). The average range seems to be about 10 to 14 years.
 * 4) The point about the proportion of deaths from old age isn't particularly relevant. When calculating a breed's average lifespan, dogs with diseases are not ignored.

Figured I'd explain in greater detail so this could be discussed further (if anyone wants to). Regards, Anna  talk 02:28, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.akc.org/breeds/boston_terrier/index.cfm. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Dpmuk (talk) 00:49, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Organization & Negatives
I think maybe the appearance should be less separated. I think it would be better if the appearance and the coat and color were together. The temperament should be a separate section as is. I do however like the amount of info provided about the appearance. I also think that maybe there should a few more facts about the negatives to this dog. I have a pure boston terrier and I know that pure breeds have similar faults that can make them difficult to own. Just some thoughts! :) Rachelclay (talk) 01:26, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Uses
There might be a better way to title this section such as 'talents'. Also, the sentence stating they were originally used as fighting dogs, but not suited for it due to their temperament is not cited, seems like an opinion. Epifanij (talk) 05:00, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

Detail to add to Description
Hi, everyone. I found an interesting fact retrieved from https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/25/dog-with-largest-eyes-bruschi-record-texas_n_1546497.html. It discusses a Boston Terrier, Bruschi, who was recognized as the dog with the largest eyes by the Guinness World Records. Each eye measures 1.1 inches, or 28 mm, in diameter. I think this would be quality content to add to the Description section of the article. One of the breed's distinguishable physical features is the large pair of eyes, so this record is relevant to the breed's physical description. It really emphasizes a notable characteristic of the Boston Terrier. What does everyone think about adding this piece of information to the article?

Moye, David. “SEEING IS BELIEVING: This Boston Terrier Has The World's Largest Dog Eyes.” The Huffington Post, TheHuffingtonPost.com, 26 May 2012, www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/25/dog-with-largest-eyes-bruschi-record-texas_n_1546497.html Hmartil (talk) 07:34, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Weight
I reverted an edit that changed the minimum weight to 0. That isn't really correct, but then what was there isn't really correct either. It had both the general weight parameter and the male and female parameters. The parameters didn't agree as the general parameter said minimum weight was 15 lbs and that is clearly incorrect as the breed standard has the lowest weight class as less than 15 lbs. I have since removed the gender wights and changed the minimum weight to 6 lbs and the general weight. I still do not think it is correct and can not find a reliable source for the information. The top weight is the top of the breed standard but there are dogs that weigh more than the breed standard. ~ GB fan 12:24, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

No reference of Iggy from Jojo Part 3?
I'm disappointed. A Dolphin (squeek?) 18:48, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
 * If you think Iggy (JoJo's Bizarre Adventure) is significant enough to include here, add it rather than complaining about it not being on the page. ~ GB fan 19:22, 23 January 2019 (UTC)