Talk:Botulism/Archive

Incorrect Source
Reference 12 for complications after infection via botulinum toxin reference a CDC page for Clostridium Perfringens, was this reference meant to go to this (https://www.cdc.gov/botulism/testing-treatment.html) CDC page about botulism in which referenced material is available? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.140.135.10 (talk) 15:29, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

I'm confused about botulism
If the botulinum toxin strikes many as the most potent toxin on earth, why is the CFR of botulism low? I mean like, wouldn't the botulinum toxin produced by Clostridium botulinum kill the victim within hours? Hm. I think that treatment reduces the CFR because the treatment includes antitoxin.

ScamsAreHorrible172 (talk) 12:26, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Removed this paragraph:
''One common symptom is a certain rigidity to the arms - botulism patients have often been compared to dinosaurs such as the mighty T-rex for their distinctive arm position. The T-Rex arm positioning has also been compared that of malformed babies born with stumpy.

''Text from a coulple of flashcards I wrote. Information already integrated into Clostridium botulinum and Botulism. maveric149''

Table
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Most potent toxin on earth?
It is true that Botulism toxin us normally referred to as "the most potent toxin on earth." I am unsure of the accuracy of that statement. I just finished editing the article, with special attention to infant botulism, as I am a California pediatrician with some experience in that disease.

I thought about adding information regarding the theoretical use of botulinum toxin as a tool of bioterrorism, but decided against it. I don't want to give the loonies any ideas.

I hope my edits don't arouse any controversy. I changed the term "infection" to the more technically correct "colonization," and de-emphasized the link to honey, as it is not a major player. I also edited some aspects of infant physiology (e.g. acidity of the stomach) and bacteriology (spores vs. bacteria, etc.). Finally, updated the "treatment" section to reflect current recommendations of treatment for infants with BabyBIG. If I have time, I will come back and reference some of those edits. I also have some cool pictures, but believe they are likely copyright protected. Pkoetters 00:33, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Honey
I removed the following untrue statement from the article:
 * Many cases are caused by the under-pasteurization of honey and other foods (under-pasteurization occurs often in honey bob and other foods labelled as "organic" or "natural").

It is not true for the following reasons: 1. Clostridium botulinum spores are everywhere, not just in honey. The best place to find them is in your vacuum cleaner bag, which indicates the wideness of their presence. They are very hard to kill, which is why they can survive in honey, which kills most pathogens. 2. Pasteurization of honey would not kill Clostridium botulinum spores. If enough heat were applied to kill the spores, honey would be utterly ruined. This would be true for many other foods as well. Canned goods that are low acid (such as green beans) must be processed at very high heat to be safe. 3. Even if all spores were killed, simply exposing the honey for a few moments to the air (with dust) would reintroduce the spores. This is true of any other food as well. I also would ask for documentation (primary sources only) that honey is proven to be the cause of infant botulism. Honey may be a suspect but has not been shown to actually be the source. This would be hard to prove, anyway, and probably moot, since the spores are literally everywhere. Wikipedia should not propagate myths. I will correct the statement about honey and botulism. Pollinator 04:21, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)


 * That doesn't seem right, because I was under the impression that Clostridium botulinum was an obligate anearobe, which would mean that exposing a food to air would not introduce spores.
 * You're correct that C. botulinum is an obligate anaerobe, but Pollinator is talking about the spores. The spores really are everywhere and that's how Clostridium rods protect themselves - by making hardy spores so they don't die. C. tetani does the same thing, when it enters a deep wound and its spores germinate and cause tetanus. It's when the _spores_ come into an anaerobic environment that they "hatch," so to speak, and then the bacterium comes out and the cascade begins. This way the bacteria gets the best of both worlds; since it's a spore-former, it can survive - not thrive, survive -  in our environment and then germinate when the environment changes to anaerobic. I hope that helps. - ddlamb 08:24, 18 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The FDA link given at the bottom of the article places the honey issue in perspective: "Of the various potential environmental sources such as soil, cistern water, dust and foods, honey is the one dietary reservoir of C. botulinum spores thus far definitively linked to infant botulism by both laboratory and epidemiologic studies." This clearly does not say that other causes are any less important, simply that they have not been identified. (update: 1 case of infant formula was reported in 2005) --Seejyb 21:05, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Uses
How about something on Botox? At least a link to the article Botox PrometheusX303 15:09, 21 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Botox is botulin toxin JFW | T@lk  15:46, 21 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Ok I think I understand.  Both articles branch from Clostridium botulinum, botulism being an illness caused by the toxin, Botox being the toxin in commercial form. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by PrometheusX303 (talk &bull; contribs).


 * Indeed. JFW | T@lk  23:32, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Bananas
Where did the last sentence of Treatment (the banana bit) come from? The placement of the citation would lead one to believe that it is supported by the FDA article, which is most definitely is NOT. Further, the purported calmative affect of bananas is a complete non sequitur, since calming the stomach would have no impact on the illness (or a very negative impact, if the supposition is true that lack of stomach acidity encourages C. Botulinum’s colonisation). I am moving the citation back one sentence to the part the FDA article actually supports, but leaving the banana bit with a citation needed tag. If the editor who introduced that titbit could cite it, that would be appreciated. {Kevin/Lastin posting sans cookies} 12.96.58.22 15:34, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm going to call WP:BOLLOCKS on this one and just cut the line out all together. If anybody can support it, they can put it back. – ClockworkSoul 22:17, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Mortality Rate
"Between 1910 and 1919, the death rate from botulism was 70 percent in the United States ... Up to 60% of botulism cases can be fatal if left untreated."

This implies that between 1910 and 1919 treatment actually killed more people than the disease would have if the people were left untreated. Otherwise it should say that up to 70% of cases could be fatal if untreated, given mortality rate in the 1910's. No references were cited for these statistics, which makes it a little more tricky to work out what's going on.

203.206.161.248 01:38, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I inserted a template about inconsistency. It also says that the death rate dropped to 2% in the 1990's, but that the WHO reports it being between 5 and 10%, while other sources reporting it to be about 7.5%. Why this difference, from 2 to 7.5%? 170.140.93.108 (talk) 01:39, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

While poorly formatted, most of the data isn't inconsistent. The first set of data (70%..9%..2%) is referring to US death rates. The 60% statement does not specify a region (World, US, etc.) but is referring to a current day case that is left untreated. Due to the lack of a region on the second percentage, the 60% doesn't directly contradict the 70% value. The next sentence states the WHO (international) levels for mortality. The line after this is the only one which may be inconsistent as it goes back to somewhat contradict the other US values (or at least the decreasing trend of those values), specifying a recent 7.5% death rate (in opposition to the previously stated 2%, (though this may be due to an increase in cases, particularly in 2007, as the 2% refers to only the early 90's). That being said, the data is, overall, of relatively poor quality and the section should probably be rewritten. 67.186.192.117 (talk) 11:15, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Aerobic v. Anaerobic environment
It's been wrong for a while, I won't fix it, but someone should do some research. I am pretty sure it works an Aerobic and not Anaerobic, just saying. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.75.46.48 (talk)
 * Nope, anaerobic is correct:
 * "In general, germination of botulinum spores is favored in food kept at warm temperatures under anaerobic conditions for a long period of time." (Source: Botulism and Clostridium Botulinum)
 * -- MarcoTolo 21:38, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

"Common symptoms of either form usually include dry mouth, difficulty swallowing, slurred speech, drooping eyelids, muscle weakness, double and/or blurred vision, vomiting, blatter and sometimes diarrhea." What is blatter? Is it supposed to be bladder, and if so, what is the effect on the bladder? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.109.5.21 (talk) 19:17, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Microbiota
Microbioa link leads to the wrong page. The disambiguation page would be better, but there is no entry for microbiota in the sense indicated in the text - just pages for microflora and microfauna. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.153.160.240 (talk) 13:22, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Prevention
Under the prevention section it says "Because the botulism toxin is destroyed by high temperatures, home-canned foods are best boiled for 10 minutes before eating." Botulism toxins are only destroyed if heated to 240-250 degrees Fahrenheit for at least twenty minutes, preferably more. Can someone please change this, or look into it a bit more. (Source: --Papershirt (talk) 02:07, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * You are correct, I find that 10 minutes is listed for some foods but 20 minutes for others. To keep it simple I will change the article to read 20 minutes.  Gandydancer (talk) 12:34, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

The WHO disagrees with the requirement for 20 minutes, and says "The toxin is destroyed by normal cooking processes (heating at >85C for five minutes or boiling for a few minutes). ". The source listed by the previous commenter says that it should be boiled at 240f (115c) for 20 minutes. This is only to kill the spores, and may be needed when originally doing the canning (depending on the ph). It also requires a pressure-cooker. KennyMacD (talk) 18:26, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

I've changed this today back to 10 minutes for post canned foods as this is the time specifically listed by the US CDC for cooking foods that have been canned.--M R G WIKI999 (talk) 12:58, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

The statements around require temperatures appear to be disputed by several sources, for instance and. Both indicate that temperatures as low as 70C can kill spores given suffient exposure time, and that processing with 90-95 C is generally reasonable. 156.40.5.95 (talk) 18:03, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

CDC
Some sections seem to be from the CDC web site http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/dfbmd/disease_listing/botulism_gi.html 72.87.188.74 (talk) 03:11, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Just noticed the same thing. I doubt the CDC cares, but it would be best to add proper cites anyway. Also, the stats are out of date. --71.225.253.124 (talk) 23:06, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Review
Clin Infect Dis PMID 16163636 JFW | T@lk  22:09, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Botulant
What is the adjectival form of botulism? 75.118.170.35 (talk) 00:59, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Botulistic. I think - there are no Google hits for 'Botulant', and lots for 'Botulistic'. Baffle gab1978 (talk) 20:50, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

US centric
This article is wa-a-a-a-a-ay too US-centric. Most of the data cited is from the CDC and really not relevant to the rest of the world! --Gak (talk) 07:50, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Actually it is relevent for most of the world, at least the western world. French, German, Polish & Spanish wikipedia's use data from their countries and most sections are exacly the same. Further on I checked with an official health site in my country (Poland) and also statistics are very similiar with about 30 cases yearly (which is exacly the same percentage considering population of both countries). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.205.81.141 (talk) 22:22, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Even so, so much of data indicates is for the USA and the wording on the few that might be global seem unlikely they would be, I do not believe any of these are bad data to have but really their should be at least some attempt to give some impression of the global rate or clerify the sources might be or might not be referring to global numbers. If the numbers are similar to developed nations are they the same in developing nations or is their any abnormalities in various regions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.162.247.51 (talk) 11:41, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Most common cause of botulism
"Wound botulism, the least common of the three in developing countries; but is by far the most common cause of botulism in developed countries.[1][2"

This looks wrong. Maybe the developing/ developed is backwards. Franklinjefferson (talk) 02:10, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Sweeteners (honey, aspartame) and risk to infants
The article refers to honey and aspartame (in the same sentence) as potentially harmful to infants. I wonder if this may be misleading, as the mechanism in each case is quite different. Also, the claim about aspartame is neither elaborated nor referenced here.

My understanding is that sugar in honey inhibits the growth of bacteria such as C. botulinum; the danger of infant botulism from honey has more to do with (a) contamination in the hive, e.g. due to bacterial growth in the bodies of dead bees and soil-derived spores in beeswax, and (b) the fact that honey cannot be adequately heat-treated to kill the bacteria without ruining it.

In the case of aspartame, the bacteriostatic effect normally observed with high sugar/low moisture content is absent. That is, it is the absence of sugar rather than the presence of aspartame that would be the risk factor, with regard to botulism.

Some potentially relevant references:

Nakano et al., "Multiplication of Clostridium botulinum in dead honey-bees and bee pupae, a likely source of heavy contamination of honey", Int J Food Microbiol, 1994 Feb;21(3):247-52

Nevas et al., "Contamination routes of Clostridium botulinum in the honey production environment", Environmental Microbiology, Volume 8 Issue 6, Pages 1085 - 1094

Labbé and García, Guide to foodborne pathogens, 3rd ed. (2001), Chapter 6

Yiu H. Hui, Handbook of food science, technology, and engineering, Vol. 2, Chapter 75

Screwtop (talk) 12:54, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * An authorititative review (Sobel) says that honey can be implicated in 20% of cases of infant botulism. The mechanism is the subject of debate, but clearly contamination is a concern. I don't think we should be citing primary research studies to further your point. Sobel doesn't mention aspartame, which sounds like a load of baloney. JFW | T@lk  23:39, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Death rate
"Between 1910 and 1919 the death rate from botulism was 70% in the United States, dropping to 9% in the 1980s and 2% in the early 1990s, mainly because of the development of artificial respirators. Up to 60% of botulism cases are fatal if left untreated."

Okay, so treated and untreated folks taken together in the US in the 1910s died 70% of the time, but untreated cases in general cause mortality less than or equal to 60% of the time? What were the doctors in the 10s doing, exactly? That needs some straightening up. Rufwork (talk) 19:57, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Invitation in the text of the article to discuss, questioning that fermented food products were one source of botulism
The lead of the article, reads: Foodborne botulism can be prevented by pressure cooking or autoclaving jars etc. (Not if the cause of botulism is home made pickled herring not following the recipe correctly). Finnish and Swedish sources say that one possible cause of botulism is fish preparations not done correctly. Eg, one ingredient for pickled herring is acetic acid, and this is sold in Sweden in standard strengths (diluted) and it is important not too have concentrations of acetic acid or of salt too low. A possible cause could be people not following directions - making a silly mistake in measuring quantities. It would be a good idea to taste the pickling solution to see if it is sharp and salty enough.

Acetic acid is a common food ingredient in central and eastern Europe in the kitchen for pickling and dressings. In Sweden it is sold in strengths of 25%, 12%, 6% and 3%. Each strength of acetic acid has a different traditional name and the bottles are different shapes. East and central european cuisine use aceitc acid as a standard ingredient where Mediterranian countries use vinegar. Here are some pictures of bottles of acetic acid acetic acid (ättika) pronounced ettika found in Swedish food stores. acetic acid

Here is info on botulism presented on a Finnish site (in Swedish - one of the two official languages of Finland)

Vad är botulism? ''Botulism är en förgiftning orsakad av toxiner (gifter) producerade av bakterien Clostridium botulinum, tidigare också kallad Bacillus botulinus. Förgiftningen uppträder eftr förtärande av dåligt steriliserade konserver, felaktigt gjorda sillinläggningar eller annan fisk, kött eller korvrätter (namnet kommer från latinets botulus, som betyder korv) infekterade med denna bakterie. Symtomen börjar 12 - 36 timmar efter födointaget, börjande med öonmuskelförlamning och sväljningsförlamning, och sjukdomen är mycket allvarlig till sin karaktär och har vanligen en dödlig utgång.''

The introductory section of the Finnish article says:

Botulism is poisoning caused by toxins (poisons) produced by the bacterium Clostridium botulinum, previously also called Bacillus botulinus. Poisoning occurs after consumption of pooly sterilized conserves, incorrectly prepared pickled herring or other fish, meat or sausage dishes (the name is derived from the latin botulus which means sausage) that are infected with this bacteria. Symptoms start 12-36 hours after food consumption, starting with paralysis of eye muscles and of the swallowing reflex and the disease is very serious and often has a fatal outcome.

The final pararagraph of the Swedish language article is:

Hur kan man själv skydda sig mot botulism?

''Ät inte gamla konserver, som kanske gått flera år över den rekommenderade tiden, och ät inte ur burkar som tydligt blivit skadade under transporten! Och om man själv gör konservburkar hemma, bör man vara insatt i hur arbetet skall göras.''

''Men speciellt oroad över risken för botulism behöver man nog inte vara. Vi har alltså i vårt land inte haft något fall på närmare 20 år!''

How I protect myself against botulism?

Do not eat preserved food that has exceeded the recommended time, (perhaps by several years) and do not eat from containers that show signs of damage during transport. If you are making preserves at home, you should be familiar with the proper routines involved in this task.

But there is no need to be unduly alarmed about the risk for botulism. In our country (Finland) we have not had a case for nearly 20 years.

The site is Gastrolab and has an open source library of gastrointestinal endoscopic images, as well as an English version.

This with reference to a questioning in the text that fermented products were one cause of botulism, and an invitation to discuss. RPSM (talk) 18:19, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Swedish Smittskyddsinstitut info on Botulism
http://www.smittskyddsinstitutet.se/sjukdomar/botulism/

From SMI The Swedish Institute for Communicable Disease Control (Smittskyddsinstitutet)

Kommentarer ''Sedan 1969 har ett drygt tiotal inhemskt smittade fall av botulism rapporterats i Sverige. I fyra fall har kryddsill angetts som smittkälla, fyra personer har smittats av rökt lax och tre personer av gravad fisk.''

Since 1969 just over ten cases of botulism from Swedish food sources have been reported in Sweden. In four of these cases, kryddsill (Swedish pickled herring) was given as the source of he disease (the Swedish says "infection"), four people had botulism from smoked salmon and three from "gravad fisk" cured fish. (This is usually salmon (lax) cured with salt and sugar only in the refrigerator, or store-bought)

''En kvinna som ett dygn efter att ha ätit varmrökt lax insjuknade med illamående, svimningskänsla och senare dubbelseende, muntorrhet och talsvårigheter. Toxin kunde påvisas i prov från såväl kvinna som fisk. Det var ytterligare sju personer som hade ätit av fisken och två personer till fick symtom, om än betydligt lindrigare. Utredning visade att fisken förvarats vid för hög temperatur.''

One woman who a day after having eaten warm smoked salmon fell sick with nausea, dizzyness and later double vision, dryness in the mouth and speech difficulties. Presence of the toxin proved positive in samples from the woman as well as from the fish. There where seven other people in addition to the woman why had eaten the fish and two of these presented symptoms, if significantly milder ones. Investigation showed that the fish had been kept at a temperature that was too high.

''I andra länder har utbrott med C. botulinum uppträtt efter förtäring av t.ex. vitlök i olja, yoghurt med nötmassa och mjuka dessertostar.''

In other countries outbreaks of C. botulinum have occurred after eating e.g. garlic preserved in oil, yoghurt with nut paste and soft dessert cheeses.

''Spädbarnsbotulism har varit relativt ovanligt i Sverige. Sedan 1969 har fyra inhemskt smittade spädbarn rapporterats. Ett av dessa har troligen smittats av honung de övriga tre fallen har troligen smittats på grund av grävarebeten i närheten av där de vistats. Ett utbrott finns beskrivet från USA där fyra barn boende i samma geografiska område insjuknade med, spädbarnsbotulism under en tidsperiod av ett år. Den troliga smittkällan var kontakt/inandning av jord med sporer av C. botulinum. I närheten av de fyra barnens bostäder hade grävarbeten skett dagarna före insjuknandet. Fall av sårbotulism finns rapporterat hos iv-missbrukare.''

Infant botulism has been relatively rare in Sweden. Since 1969 four cases of where the source of infection (sic) deriving from Swedish sources have been reported. One of these was probably derived from honey and the other three cases because of work involving digging in the vicinity where they were residing. One case from the USA is described where four children in the same geographical area became ill with infant botulism during a period of one year. The probable source of the disease was contact with or inhaling earth wth spores of C. botulinum. In the vicinity of the four childrens' residences digging work had been under way prior to them falling sick.

Cases of wound botulism have been reported among intravenous substance abusers. My translation to English RPSM (talk) 18:34, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Precautions for hot smoking fish to prevent Botulism
[http://www.fao.org/wairdocs/tan/x5953e/x5953e01.htm FAO Corporate Document Repository. Torry Research Station]

From FAO - Hot smoking of fish

"Brining of hot smoked products is critical on grounds of safety. The salt concentration in the water of the finished product should be high enough to inhibit the growth of any food poisoning organisms present, particularly Clostridium botulinum, without making the product unpleasantly salty to eat; a minimum concentration of 3 per cent has been found to be effective for hot smoked fish, particularly mackerel and trout." RPSM (talk) 18:46, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Botulism From Drinking Prison-Made Illicit Alcohol — Utah 2011 (for section: "Outbreaks")
pruno made in prison is not dangerous, unless you add a mouldy potato saved from the canteen - Botulism outbreak in prison. RPSM (talk) 01:08, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

University of California, Santa Cruz gives geographical distribution of various types of botulism (A. B, C, D, E)
Botulism RPSM (talk) 13:29, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Lead too long
The lead is too long to read. I hope it is skimmed down, while some paragraphs shall be moved to body article. --George Ho (talk) 07:40, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

I will try, but it will take some time. It is on my list RPSM (talk) 15:41, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Last paragraph: In other species
''Botulism can occur in many vertebrates and invertebrates. Botulism has been reported in rats, mice, chicken, frogs, toads, goldfish, aplysia, squid, crayfish, drosophila, leeches, etc. ''

The above paragraph doesn't look right. The dead carcasses of vertebrates and invertebrates provide a suitable environment for the toxin to develop from spores. Feeding maggots concentrate the toxin. Birds eat the maggots and are poisoned (intoxicated) with the toxin. This is not the same thing as saying "botulism has been reported in invertebrates" see:Avian Botulism RPSM (talk) 18:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Aspartame
Under the section titled "Outbreaks", this is written: "The largest recorded outbreak of foodborne botulism in the United Kingdom occurred in June 1989. A total of 27 patients were affected; one patient died. Twenty-five of the patients had eaten one brand of hazelnut yoghurt in the week before the onset of symptoms. This yoghurt contained hazelnut conserve sweetened with aspartame rather than sugar. Control measures included the cessation of all yoghurt production by the implicated producer, the withdrawal of the firm's yoghurts from sale, the recall of cans of the hazelnut conserve, and advice to the general public to avoid the consumption of all hazelnut yoghurts."

With regards to the sentence "This yoghurt contained hazelnut conserve sweetened with aspartame rather than sugar.": is it necessary? It doesn't seem to add anything to the paragraph (other than to insinuate that somehow the aspartame may have been the cause), and, to my knowledge, the controversy regarding aspartame is complete bull. Thoughts? Riffraff913 (talk) 04:50, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

I wondered the same thing so I looked at the referenced paper. The sentence is taken directly from the abstract; and it does, to me, imply that the aspartame is somehow to blame. But really in the text the aspartame is simply a useful indicator of a separate batch of the hazelnut jam which was infected by C bot. and the text does not imply that it is somehow the cause. Cross Reference (talk) 02:24, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Tomatoes, really?
"Tropical fruit and tomatoes are low in acidity"

What the heck, tomatoes ARE acidic; canned tomatoes and tomato soup will rust tin faster than almost every other vegetables; tomatoes were the main reason for developing internal can coating. It even says so in the wikipedia tomato page. The last thing you want to do is add more acid to it before canning.

Anonymous Coward says: This sentence caught my attention, too. Tomatoes **are** highly acidic. I was going to add a section somewhere in those thereabouts to deal with preservation methods where high salinity combines with (eventual) high acidity, but I'm not 100% qualified. The gist:


 * c. botulinum is obligately anaerobic if it's going to reproduce properly
 * the toxin itself can be produced and remains even if the bacterium is killed (so bacterial contamination at the wrong stage of food prep/preservation can lead to the toxin, even if no bacteria are present in the final product)
 * making sauerkraut or kimchi begins with adding salt; if this isn't done right (to the correct concentration) then the bacteria can flourish in the anaerobic setup
 * colonisation of the medium can take place before there are visible signs
 * attempts to kill the colony (eg, in other forms of pickling which use heat or added vinegar) at this stage will trigger a kind of stress reaction, releasing the toxin
 * regular "canning" (as they call it in the US, though it has nothing to do with cans) thus has the potential to create toxic preserves even though no live bacteria are present in the end product
 * lacto-fermentation (kimchi, s-kraut) can be a lot safer despite lacking sterilisation stages since the initial high salinity kills any c botulinum before it can colonise and produce meaningful amounts of the toxin. This is despite the other key requirement (anaerobicity) being satisfied in all such methods — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.11.65.142 (talk) 01:15, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Why does "allantiasis" redirect here?
Not mentioned on page. 86.139.166.113 (talk) 23:58, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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Detection of food born botulism
Can you potentially smell, see, or taste food that contains botulism? Is there any perceptible indications? Most dangerous foods have some tell-tail, even if subtle? Curious. Perhaps that could go under the Diagnosis section.--Lucas559 (talk) 05:59, 21 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Oh yeah, can you ever! The smell is horrific, kind of like sewer gas. The classic poisoning case is a sick person with a stuffed-up nose who warms up (without boiling) a swollen can of chicken soup. 97.104.88.146 (talk) 22:23, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
 * According to the CDC, contaminated food may smell and taste normal (more here). Ajpolino (talk) 04:55, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

wiki bug workaround
The formatting gets screwed up. (hopefully this comment fixes it) Some reference-type thing get appended onto the list in the previous section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.104.88.146 (talk • contribs)


 * That's deliberate. Clearly a section elsewhere on the page contains a reference, and the wiki displays it at the bottom of the page automagically. JFW &#124; T@lk  14:32, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Removed some unsourced info from Prognosis
Hello! I removed a couple of unsourced claims from the prognosis section because they seemed dubious. I'm posting here in case any defender of the removed claims wishes to make a case for their inclusion. The claims: The Cochrane review earlier in the prognosis section gives the untreated case fatality rate as 40-50%, so a 70% rate in the 1910s seems unlikely. The JAMA review here gives the case fatality rate as 25% in the 1950s and 6% from 1990-1996, which goes against the "2% in the early 1990s" claim. I can't find any good info on botulism mortality in adults over 60. The JAMA paper I mentioned above has a "Special Populations" section but it doesn't mention older adults. The CDC is similarly mum on the topic. I searched some related queries on Pubmed and Google Scholar but came up empty-handed. So I'm retiring this claim for now. But if someone has a good source on this, I'd be excited to see it! Thanks! Ajpolino (talk) 04:47, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
 * "Between 1910 and 1919 the mortality rate among U.S. botulism cases was 70% in the United States, dropping to 9% in the 1980s and 2% in the early 1990s, mainly because of the development of artificial respirators."
 * "The mortality rate among U.S. adults over 60 is 30%."

Moving some info from Botulinum toxin
Hey folks! Moving some info from the Botulinum toxin "Role in Disease" section to here where it seems to fit better. Hopefully someone has time to merge it into this article.

Toxicity testing of serum specimens, wound tissue cultures, and toxicity testing, and stool specimen cultures are the best methods for identifying botulism. Laboratory tests of the patient's serum or stool, which are then injected into mice, are also indicative of botulism. The faster way to detect botulinum toxin in people, however, is using the mass spectrometer technology, because it reduces testing time to three or four hours and at the same time can identify the type of toxin present.

Happy editing! Ajpolino (talk) 05:27, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Wanted: Exhaustive list of foods
I believe many people visit this article researching an exhaustive list of foods associated with, and officially detected as tainted with botulism. The list can be columnized with its association between home canning and cited detections in commercial canning, and which foods exhibit the most common associations of botulism in descending order. Groping around the Internet gives conflicting ideas and vague inferences even on official .gov and .org sites, using words like "such as" or "may include these foods." - 75.173.108.10 (talk) 20:11, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I think any food can potentially be affected. You have sources. Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 07:23, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Even if any food can theoretically be affected by botulism, this information does nothing to educate the common man about what foods they need to be especially careful with; lest the common man should dismiss all caution entirely. All foods CAN cause allergic reaction and anaphylaxis, so why bother warning anyone about specific severity of peanuts and shellfish? - 75.173.108.36 (talk) 07:04, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Agree, most common sources is more useful. Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 19:31, 22 August 2017 (UTC)