Talk:Boulonnais horse/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Sasata (talk) 19:13, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Hello again, I've signed up to review this article. Will have some comments up in the next few days. Sasata (talk) 19:13, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Comments
 * "…is a heavy draft horse breed now bred mainly by the French government due to their decreased numbers." I didn't know the French government had decreased numbers.
 * Rewritten :)


 * lead needs some work. For example, what does the horse look like?
 * Completely rewritten.


 * "In the late 18th century, breeders looked for lighter colors," Why? What breeders? Breeders of the French Government? Did breeders in general want lighter-colored horses, or just those brewing the Boulonnais?
 * I changed this to "preferred" lighter colors. I don't know why - horse colors tend to go through fad periods. It was just those breeding the Boulonnais - specified. I hope it's better now?


 * please convert hands into non-horsey units (otherwise I have to click on another article and get out my calculator to find out how tall it is). Similarly, why is the weight given in only imperial units?
 * Added in conversions.


 * "…it has no heavy feathering on its lower legs" do not know what this is… link or gloss?
 * Linked.


 * "The breed is generally branded on the left side of the neck with an anchor." Really? Someone takes a massive ship anchor, heats it up in a fire, and presses it against the horses neck? Also, maybe link branding
 * LOL. Tried rewording this, see what you think. Linked.


 * no recorded history from 55 BC to the 17th century?
 * What I'm trying to explain here is that the Numidians brought horses in 55 BC that turned into the native French horse. Then the comtes took these horses, mixed them with a few other breeds, and created the original Boulonnais. So, the history of the native horse is basically irrelevant (kind of like how we don't explain the entire history of the Arabian in the Thoroughbred article, despite the fact that the latter was developed from the former). I've done a little bit of clarifying and linking to show that the original breeding by the comtes was during the Crusades (not in the 17th century), but honestly there's not a lot to go on with this breed.


 * link registered, broodmare
 * Done.


 * "The Boulonnais was once a popular workhorse in France, with an estimated population of over 600,000." When?
 * Early 1900s, added.


 * "Unfortunately, the smaller Boulonnais type has died out." Unfortunate to who? (NPOV)
 * Fixed.


 * "The larger Boulonnais is still bred in small numbers, with an estimated population of less than 1,000 animals remaining in Europe." Says who, and what year?
 * Added the who (American Boulonnais Horse Association), but they don't say what year.


 * "Many studs are government funded," studs = stud farms, or male horses?
 * Stud farms. Linked.


 * link artificial insemination and embryo transfer
 * Done.


 * "…which was later to play a large role in the creation of the Selle Francais." details?
 * The Anglo-Norman was renamed the Selle Francais after having a few other bloodlines added to it. I'm a little confused, however, as to how details of this would be relevant to the Boulonnais article, since the Boulonnais was only used to create the Anglo-Norman.


 * "It was also used in the creation and refinement of the Italian Heavy Draft[10] the post-World War II improvement of the Schleswig breed," run-on
 * Whoops, there was supposed to be a comma after "draft", now added.
 * Hi Sasata, and thanks for the comments. I'm apparently slipping, as many of these things I should have noticed and dealt with before the nomination. It's getting late here today, so I will begin working on these tomorrow morning and should be finished by tomorrow evening at the latest. Dana boomer (talk) 02:11, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm in no real rush :) Sasata (talk) 02:14, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I think I have all of the above finished. Thanks for taking a look! Dana boomer (talk) 13:56, 29 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Hendricks mentions that a large show specializing in this breed is held yearly at Wimmereux
 * I'll take a look at this later. Dana boomer (talk) 14:05, 1 October 2010 (UTC)


 * interested in including any info from this article?


 * Title: Genetic diversity of a large set of horse breeds raised in France assessed by microsatellite polymorphism
 * Author(s): Leroy, G; Callede, L; Verrier, E, et al.
 * Source: GENETICS SELECTION EVOLUTION  Volume: 41   Article Number: 5   Published: 2009
 * Yes, I'd love to see that. Even if it doesn't have information on the Boulonnais, it should be useful for writing other French horse breed articles. Dana boomer (talk) 14:05, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I just noticed it's full access at Pubmed Central. Sasata (talk) 15:50, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

This one looks ideal, but unfortunately it's in French, and I don't have access. Just listing it here for completeness:
 * Title: Towards a revival of the Boulonnais horse: an adapted economic promotion and a plan for genetic management.
 * Author(s): Loywyck, V.; Lagneaux, D.; Stievenard, R., et al.
 * Source: Equ'Idee  Issue: 45   Pages: 14-17   Published: 2002
 * I don't speak French, so don't think I'd be able to do much with it. It looks interesting though. Dana boomer (talk) 14:05, 1 October 2010 (UTC)


 * is it of any importance that the National Norman Horse association declared in 1876 that the Norman, the Percheron, the Picardy and the Boulonnais are "substantially the same breed, and should be called the Norman horse"? More details from a modern source here
 * I've added in some information on this. The second ref (Horses in society) looks like an interesting book overall, and appears to have some great information in it. It's just been added to my (rather extensive!) Amazon wishlist.


 * along these lines, might it be worthwhile to compare the Boulonnais with some other (French) horses or similar breeds and briefly compare distinguishing characteristics?
 * My main problem with this would be OR. There's not really (as far as I can find) a source that actually sits all the breeds down and compares them one to one. And, it's not something that we usually do in breed articles (unless there's a really common comparison), so I wouldn't really even know where to start. Dana boomer (talk) 14:05, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * No problem; I'm used to seeing this section in mushroom articles, but I guess people don't go into the forest hunting for horses to eat! Sasata (talk) 15:50, 1 October 2010 (UTC)


 * didya know these horses were used to haul heavy blocks of stone used in Parisian buildings?
 * Added a bit. How cool! Dana boomer (talk) 14:05, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

I actually have that on my "to do" list. I think Dana is doing fine to confine this article as it is. What I've found in preliminary work is that many breeds of the 1800s were more of a regional name than a "breed" as we understand them today, and even the surviving breeds have distinguished themselves since the last 1800s...and some have basically become extinct. There really is no longer a Norman horse as far as I can tell, (we don't even have an article on them) they are one of those extinct ancestral breeds like the Old English Black. The most direct discendant was the Anglo-Norman horse which today is largely incorporated into the Selle Francaise. Be cool to find out if the Picardy exists, or if it was simply a regional designation for the Boulonnais. Anyway, as the other horse breed geek at WPEQ (Tho I haven't done much on this particular one, its Dana's) I can say that sources from the last 1800s are only of use for the history section and cannot be considered a reliable source for the status of most modern breeds. Montanabw (talk) 22:49, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I've added a bit in on this, as it is interesting on the breed politics side. However, you are correct that eventually one of us needs to create the Norman horse article and actually explain all of the politics. BTW, take a look at the information in the second link in that comment (the book is Horses in Society, from 2006). It's one of those really rare books that actually explains the reasons behind what the registry was doing and goes through it step by step. Quite interesting. Dana boomer (talk) 14:05, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for all the changes. Image is fine, no dabs, links fine. I think all the GA criteria are met, so I will pass the article now. Good working with ya again! Sasata (talk) 15:50, 1 October 2010 (UTC)