Talk:Bowser/Archive 1

Bowser-Voldemort
In New Super Mario Bros. Bowser is killed in the lava in the first level of the game, but in the final castle, Bowser Jr. gives him back a more powerful body using a potion, similar to voldemort.

and in Luigi's Mansion, Bowser's dead (somehow) and is ressurected by King Boo, and is transferred into a painting at the end of the game. However, Bowser's body was left in the Roof-Dimension inside the mario painting. Could it be that the Bowser head we see in the ghost Portificationaizer along with King Boo is a ghostly part of Bowser, possibly a frament of Bowser's soul, Similar to Voldemort's horcruxes!

It is possible, that as long as the painting of Bowser and King Boo remains intact, Bowser is immortal.

But it is a Mario Game. Maybe the plot shouldn't be read so much into.

Bowser's Death? 2
How do we know Bowser died before Luigi's Mansion? Madame Clairvoya merely states Bowser was "soundly defeated". How does this imply death? I'm not saying he didn't die; King Boo could be using Bowser's corpse, but there is the possibility that Bowser was laying low and King Boo was using a robotic (or even magical) Bowser suit. I think both options need to be stressed, not one of the other. --206.8.10.4 06:07, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, madame Clairvoya's exact words are: "Bowser? how can this be? I see the Hideous form of BOWSER?! I don't believe it, yet I see it. Could King Boo have found some way to revive Bowser?"

Is it not clear that this is nintendo's way of explaining what happened? surely she would have said something along the lines of: "Bowser?! I don't understand, could King Boo have revived bowser? or is he just using some nefarious Bowser suit - thing?" I know that we should register the 'its a bowser suit' argument as possible, but I personally feel that is is stupid, when nintendo have plainly given us a preferrable and much more interesting story.

I don't think there would be so much shock and disbelief if Bowser was merely in hiding, one would just assume he'd come out of hiding. Also, why would King Boo need to revive Bowser, if he was just hiding?


 * Thanks for the exact words. I guess this does imply Bowser really did die. If someone wants to change the article, they can (as I am the one who added the suit information). I just needed a source to confirm the death. Thanks again. --206.8.10.4 19:15, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Bowser's Death?
For those pepole who saw the game video of the new super mario bros where he fell into the pit of lava and coming back without flesh on: He doesn't die! The fact is that he is a fake verson of bowser and the real him is at the final level. Bowser is everyones favourite villian and even though he always get owned by mario he will never die.


 * Besides, we've seen from screenshots of Super Paper Mario that he's clearly still going to be alive for that one.


 * Actually, Bowser does die in the new game, in a sense. He becomes an undead Dry Bones like monster until Bowser Jr. uses a magic potion to restore his father to his normal self. Bowser did die, but he was brought back to life (the same thing could have happened in Luigi's Mansion, meaning that the game is not the last game chronologically. --63.226.134.36 02:27, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd rather think of him as Nintendo's Juggernaut, personally. He's a-gon hit Mario wit his own pimp. Papacha 17:31, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

GameCube renders
Can anyone find any Nintendo GameCube renders of Bowser to put on the article?
 * I found one on Gamekult that from the DS, but it's still a 3D render.
 * http://img2.kult-mag.com/photos/00/00/53/55/ME0000535573_2.jpg
 * Just thought I should run it by first before uploading it. Agent CH 15:58, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

SMW2 - Bowser's first encounter with the Mario Bros?
In Super Mario World 2, we really do learn that he first encountered Mario as a baby. i'm putting that back in. Meelar 18:50, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * Nonsense. Mario is a plumber from Brooklyn who had been working in the sewers prior to actually being orientated with the Mushroom and Koopa kingdoms. That block of info your adding has just as much in my mind as if to add to Adolf Hitler, "He was infamous for his evil acts of slaughter in the Holocaust." And it looks like you're making some grammatical errors, that is, no caps on your second sentence, not to insult you. --Marcus2
 * No problem, I usually catch those. Anyway, I maintain that Nintendo's promotional material clearly links the two Marios, so we should include it. Meelar 21:27, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * Promotional material is not to be relied upon. It may be misleading or contradictory. Remember the expression, believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. --Marcus2
 * I'd like to repeat my request here--find one source that says Mario and Luigi didn't meet Bowser in Super Mario World 2 (not counting fan fiction). If you can't, the info should stay. Meelar 21:44, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * See my response to this on your talk page. This is not a biography or a science project. --Marcus2
 * This may not be a biography or science project, but it is an encyclopedia article. As such, it must contain, accurate, verifiable information, and this information should not be removed without reason. Unless you can provide such reason, from credible source material, the information will remain. Meelar 05:51, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * Having played and completed Super Mario World 2, as well as many of the other Mario games, I side with Meelar. I also think Marcus2 should follow his own advice, because I think the idea Mario is from Brooklyn comes mostly from promotional material. I'm not sure if Shigeru Miyamoto, for all intents and purposes the creator of Mario and writer of his history, ever stated that Mario is from Brooklyn, though he has stated he's a plumber (and it's implied Mario was originally a carpenter in Donkey Kong). It's possible that Miyamoto has said this but if so, I'd like to see a source. --Furrykef 19:31, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * Marcus2: If you continue this edit war, I may suggest that this topic be locked. All nintendo games are cannon, even if they contradict. Rather than removing content, perhaps just extend to article to say that the SMW:2 storyline conflicts with the other possible story. Tacvek 02:56, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)


 * Yes. The correct procedure in cases of discrepencies in story lines are to document the discrepencies in good NPOV fashion. Sherlock Holmes fandom has been doing this for years. Same with comic book fandom for retcons in continuity. Also Edgar Rice Burroughs fandom. For the comic book character Archie there are at least two separate stories of how he first met Veronica, both of them contradicted by the L'il Archie series about Archie and the gang as very young children.


 * Document. Don't argue about which is right. If promotional material says something, then cite the exact promotional material (which will encourage other readers to cite other promotional material confirming it or to document other statements in contradiction). If you can't cite it, don't spread it. jallan 20:00, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * Most people consiter Baby Mario (BM) and Mario (M) as two characters. Up until the "Partners in Time" game, they've been seporated and always have been. Any events BM might experience are not part of M's past unless noted so. At least, that's my opinion. --Wack&#39;d About Wiki 16:57, 26 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Huh. I always though that the Brooklyn story was an outdated experiment of Nintendo of America, and was solely used in the cartoons, comics, and movie instead of the games (except for the cameo in the English SNES Sim City manual, but that's the only exception I can think of, and it isn't an in-game reference). My understanding is that fans used to merge this and the SMW2YI backstory to merge the pre-SMB games and the post-SMB games together, but it was nothing official... At least, I don't remember it being so. I think we can rule that the SMB2YI story works for the games, and the Brooklyn story works for the non-games, unless there's some big game evidence that I'm somehow missing out on besides the common old North American promotions (which also usually promoted the non-game material as well).
 * Yeah...I also agree with the person above. The only case in which I've seen that says the Mario Bros. live in Brooklyn was in the Mario Bros. Movie.
 * ... and the TV-show...

To the topic of Baby Mario and Mario being two seperate characters, shouldn't it be obvious that Baby Mario is the same person as Mario? SMW and SMW2 (YI) are a series of games in which both feature Yoshi. I would think that, comparing the two, SMW2 would be a prequel to SMW, thus completing the fact that Mario is the same character as Baby Mario. And Nintendo should make it's character and game stories clearer. GamePlayer623 00:43, 4 July 2006 (UTC) 17:43, 03 July 2006 (UTC)

Why Disambiguation?
Why is this article at the disambiguating link Bowser (Nintendo character) instead of Bowser which is a redirect? Until someone creates Bowser (the guy from Sha-na-na) I think we're fine at the unambig link. If no one has any objections, we should delete the Bowser redirect, and move this article there. - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 17:39, Jun 17, 2004 (UTC)

Usual appearances
Bowser's usual appearance in colors, orange, green, and yellow was never from video games in the first place. His first appearance in the video games was in colors, pale, blue, and grey. His usual appearance was first seen in the Mario Anime series. After his appearance in the Super Mario Bros. 3 Anime series, Nintendo took that design of him and replaced his first appearance in the video games to his appearance first seen in the Mario Anime series for Super Mario World in 1990. -ZachKudrna18@yahoo.com

Nickname
Should his nickname be "Bow" or "Ser"? Most people nickname him "Bow" and that "Ser" is a stupid nickname. --ZachKudrna18@yahoo.com
 * How about "Bowse" or "Koop"? 81.232.72.53 12:25, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I've never heard any of these nicknames... Tyciol 19:14, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Nicknames for a video game character are useless. Just call them by their real name. GamePlayer623 00:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC) 17:50, 3 July 2006

Princess Peach???
How did this rumor start that Bowser was in love with Peach? How do people know? Peach hates Bowser so much!! She does not love him or his seven children, the Koopalings. Bowser's trying to make Peach the mother of the Koopalings.
 * Rumor???!!! It was stated in Paper Mario 2 in Bowser's first scene, were 2 Hammer Bros. say that he was staring at a picture of her affectionatly. Although we do not know if the Hammer Bros. were just joking or not, it could have happened. I favor a theory of Bowser just wanting to marry Peach to take over the Mushroom kingdom. ~ Ultimate Perfect Chaos 04:46, 3 February 2006 (UTC) ~
 * While I agree that Peach generally rejects Bowser's affections, that doesn't mean he isn't after her. I'd also like to add Super Mario RPG as evidence, when they save her from Booster's cake in the wedding town, he attempts to kiss her. Aha! Tyciol 19:14, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
 * On a secondary note, Bowser Jr. says Peach is his mother in Super Mario Sunshine, and she believes him. Makes you wonder if there was anything between her and Bowser in the past (or it could just be Peach is as dumb as a stick).

Uh, it also mentions it in the first Paper Mario when you have the option of reading his Diary/Journal

Bowser's behavior
Bowser doesn't act much of a king, he behaves like a demon, and Mario acts like a much nicer king than him. --ZachKudrna18@yahoo.com
 * Well, Mario isn't a king now is he? Bowser is far from acting demonish, he is simply a villain, and there are many more characters from different series that act alot like him. Bowser has several less than good character traits, glutony, wrath, etc. But these villianous traits do not make him demonic. There are many more evil kings or emporers that are much, MUCH, worse than Bowser. ~ Ultimate Perfect Chaos 04:53, 3 February 2006 (UTC) ~
 * Bowser's not a bad king at all. And Mario isn't a King period.

"Bowser Koopa"

 * Somewhere along the line the two names merged, and he is now known in America as being Bowser Koopa, with "Koopa" as his, and his children's last name.

I haven't seen Bowser ever referred to as "Bowser Koopa" in official materials, although admittedly the most recent Mario game I've played is Super Mario 64. Can anybody provide an example? --Furrykef 19:39, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * I doubt that there is any referrence, However that said i know that it must be either Bowser Koopa, or Koopa Bowser, and the first makes more sense. Tacvek 02:56, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I still don't buy the idea that his name is "Bowser Koopa". As far as I know, in Japan it has always been "King Koopa", and in the United States, it was "Bowser, King of the Koopas" in canonical sources (the games), and "King Koopa" in some non-canonical sources (the cartoons). I've never seen the form "King Bowser Koopa" even in such non-canonical sources. - furrykef (Talk at me) 22:09, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, I agree with you that you don't usually see it written that way in video games, but if the Koopa Kids are any indication, it's his name nonetheless. They all have names like "Wendy O. Koopa" and so on, so presumably it's a clan and a surname. Just as if my name were John Doe, you could call me (somewhat archaically) John, King of the Does, or Leader of the Does, or some such. Using this example, the names King John and King Doe both work, as well. Andre ( talk ) 22:17, Jan 22, 2005 (UTC)
 * Things get difficult along this path. In the original Japanese, he is known as Koopa (&#12463;&#12483;&#12497;, kuppa). In the original SMB, he was Great Devil Koopa (&#22823;&#39764;&#29579;&#12463;&#12483;&#12497;, dai ma&#333; kuppa)! (I'm not sure at the moment if he's even been "King Koopa" before and not just "king of the Koopa.") "Bowser" is something the folks here at Nintendo of America (NoA) created, to my chagrin (though I admit, it fits well). Likewise, in Japan, the Koopalings' don't have Koopa as their surname; they're just Larry, Morton, Wendy O., etc. Thus, I'm against the "King Bowser Koopa," especially since it's an inference (though admittedly a valid one). Either we should stick to the Japanese info and mention the American info (my choice since the Japanese info comes from Nintendo itself and Miyamoto himself); stick to the American info and mention the Japanese info (which I'm not wont to do); or create an amalgamation of the two, which would likely be a bit confusing. I think we should do "King Koopa," "Koopa," and "Bowser" and not "King Bowser" (unless supported) or "(King) Bowser Koopa." (Not to mention that "Bowser Koopa" sounds pretty lame ...) -- J44xm 03:38, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Well your argument against "(King) Bowser Koopa" is something I'll have to think about. However, what's wrong with "King Bowser"? There's a screenshot from SMRPG saying that further down on the page. Andre ( talk ) 21:51, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * You're quite right about that, so "King Bowser" is in. ^_^ (Sorry for the delay in replying.) -- J44xm 12:59, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * Was he not called "Bowser von Koopa" in one game on the NES or SNES? I seem to recall that Germanised version of his name. -- Nicander
 * Sometimes he's also referred to as "Mr. Koopa" while he doesn't want anyone to know his given name. --ZachKudrna18@yahoo.com
 * Nicander, You must be thinking of Ludwig Von Koopa. The only other explanation may be from the cartoons, where I remember he played dress-up a lot like King K. Rool.

I don't know if anybody would consider this to be "canon" but, Mario Party 7 refers to Bowser as both his US name (Bowser) and his Japanese name (King Koopa). He's even called the "King of the Koopas". He is even called "Bowser" and "King Koopa" in the story and characters section of the instruction booklet. SaturnYoshi|TALK 15:05, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Quotations
Dear Goddess that's a lot of quotes. I think we should move them to WikiQuotes or just get rid of them. Are they all from the TV show? Nifboy 04:26, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Apparently. A move to wikiquotes would be ok with me. Andre ( talk ) 02:07, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree that the quotation section is overpowering. Joyous 04:05, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)
 * Most of them. Some of them, though, are from the games and comics. User:Nintendo Maximus

Requested move
Bowser (Nintendo) &#8594; Bowser - A majority of the links point here. Note that the dis-ambiguation page itself can be named Bowser (disambiguation) and none of the other pages the dis-ambiguation page links to will change their titles. Georgia guy 02:11, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * ''Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation and sign your vote with ~

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. violet/riga (t) 10:57, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose Bowser is a disambig page with several other meanings that could just as easly make a better case for that name. Since Bowser is so common, it should be the disambig page. We have no way of knowing how many people type in Bowser and actually go to the other pages. The fact that some users put in a bad link should not be a reason to remove a disambg page or to move it. Also note that more then 50% of the redirects are from 5 redirects that have bad links. Those will be fixed shortly. Vegaswikian 07:30, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose Fix links as necessary, I don't see any case this is the overwhelmingly most common sense of the unqualified word. Alai 03:52, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Since I visited this page more recently than the closed debate, I'm a bit miffed. I would have supported the above. See the example set at Mario where the unambiguated article clearly refers to what some would otherwise title "Mario_(Nintendo)"... I think, that since the mutual archnemeses Mario and Bowser are so inexorably linked, they should probably follow the same article-naming pattern. &mdash; F REAK OF N URxTURE  ( TALK )  07:53, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)
 * A stronger point too: look at Mario (disambiguation) and Bowser (disambiguation) ... and you will find there are several times more name-uses of "Mario" than "Bowser"... and yet the Nintendo character Mario is an ad hoc favorite and Bowser is not?? weird. &mdash; F REAK OF N URxTURE  ( TALK )  07:53, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)
 * I move to reopen the debate. &mdash; F REAK OF N URxTURE  ( TALK )  07:53, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

Name Change
I suggest we change the name to King Bowser. We have Princess Peach, so we might as well have King Bowser. --A Link to the Past 00:49, May 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * ''Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation and sign your vote with ~

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. Alai 00:32, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Support, I prefer King Bowser to a title with parens. Andre ( talk ) 01:47, May 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I'm pretty sure I've never heard him referred to as "King Bowser". They haven't used that terminology in any of the recent Mario games, either. Bowser (Nintendo) is fine. -Doozer (Talk) 00:22, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Strongly oppose There seems to be no attempt to argue this is the most common name for this character, as per the naming conventions, If this is an attempt to re-open the "get rid if the disambig" debate, above, then it's dishearteningly soon. Alai 00:53, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
 * It has nothing to do with the disambig debate. Kammy Koopa calls Bowser King Bowser. So, what you're saying is that the fact that his title as a King being fact can't compete with him not being called it everytime someone refers to him? He is a King. There is no reason to not refer to him as King Bowser when it's undeniable fact that his title is King. There's no difference between his situation and the situation of Princess Peach; if you are arguing that this is his name or whatever, what's that then? Why not call her Peach? King Arthur's article is King Arthur, not Arthur (Britain). King Bowser is a better term than Bowser (Nintendo), because it's not only 100% true, but it's also a better name. No one will be confused, some people would type in King Bowser occasionally (no one would do it now without previously knowing it). Absolutely no reason to not change it. Can you actually make a feasable argument? I don't mean to be rash about this, so I'll be a little less serious... Sir, your arguments are bunk. BUNK, I say!--A Link to the Past 09:51, May 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Can you actually cite a reason to make such a move, other than the above "no reason not to!" assertions? And here's a reason not to: the "most common name" rule, as I said before. "King Arthur" is clearly the most common reference to "King Arthur", so the comparison isn't at all compelling. Alai 23:36, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
 * It's his official title. Has anyone ever referred to him as Bowser (Nintendo)?--A Link to the Past 03:24, May 23, 2005 (UTC)
 * That's not WP policy, though, which (as I keep saying) is to use most common names. Which in this case would be to "Bowser". From your rhetorical question I gather you indeed are quibbling with the "(Nintendo)" disambiguation, then? Alai 03:44, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
 * The policy is foolish. King Bowser isn't called King Bowser for the reason that he's not Mario's King. If a character is more commonly referred to with a nickname than his actual name, should it be his Wiki name? So, you're saying that his official title, his superior name, is not the one appropriate for Wikipedia because he's more often referred to as Bowser? And Nintendo can't be called Nintendo Corporate Ltd, because it includes Nintendo of America and Nintendo of Europe, IIRC. There is no reason to keep it as Bowser (Nintendo). King Bowser is his official title, established by Nintendo of America. Okay? Okay. Okay, wow, characters who aren't under the rule of Bowser don't call him King Bowser, while his minions and Nintendo call him. No one really calls Henry VIII King Henry VIII, because he's not a likable King. Arthur is. King Bowser isn't.--A Link to the Past 05:57, May 23, 2005 (UTC)
 * I want to ask why, using that logic, we shouldn't rename the Mario article to his full name, Mario Mario. Nifboy 07:37, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Here's a game - show a canon use of Mario Mario. Excluding Dr. Mario, that's just a title given to him for the sake of the game. Also, King Bowser is NOT rarely used. Unless you don't count Paper Mario, TTYD and Mario & Luigi as games. Lucas doesn't factor in the Star Wars Christmas Special into the series, and Miyamoto doesn't factor in the Super Mario Bros. Movie into his series. -- A Link to the Past 08:30, May 23, 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose. "King" title is rarely used and even more rarely used before "Bowser" (Mario RPG uses "King Koopa" and refers to him as Bowser). If the parenthesis bother you so much, use his full name, "Bowser Koopa," instead. Nifboy 07:53, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose absolutely. Bowser, and only Bowser. No Koopa, no King, no nothing except (Nintendo) if necessary, and that's a different argument. No King. --Golbez 06:08, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)
 * Strongly Oppose. The only reason Mario's girlfriend Peach is at Princess Peach is because Peach infinitely more often refers to the fruit. I am sure many Nintendo gamers (such as my dad, who has only played the Mario Kart series) are not aware that Bowser proclaims himself king of anything. I, however, have played various Mario titles since the early 90's. When talking about the games, I always referred to (and still do refer to) Princess Peach simply as "The Princess," because before playing Mario Kart I was unaware that she was named Peach. &mdash; F REAK OF N URxTURE  ( TALK )  06:39, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)
 * On a side note, I think Bowser is at least as worthy of One-name entity status as Mario, if not more so. Note the high number of other people named "Mario" and the low number of others named "Bowser"! &mdash; <font color="006000" title="User:Freakofnurture">F REAK OF N URxTURE  ( <font color="006000" title="User talk:Freakofnurture">TALK )  06:39, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't see why people are horrified at using an official, superior alternative as opposed to one part of his name and acknowledging what game he's in. -- A Link to the Past 05:16, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * I must call BS on the use of "superior" as an adjective describing the proposed change; at least five people so far disagree with that. As for "official," I still maintain "Koopa" (which is equally "official") is more common than "King" in reference to Bowser. Nifboy 05:41, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * King Bowser was used in TTYD, M&L and PM. TTYD came out after SMB. How exactly is Koopa more common? Bowser is constantly referred to as King. -- A Link to the Past 16:31, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

Further discussion
This name change does not seem to have been posted to requested moves, and hence has just rumbled on and on, without ever being formally closed (and not moved). And prior to this month-long move discussion, there was a move request, which also did not reach a consensus. Can we let this alone for a while? Alai 16:56, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * This is a much more reasonable move. People refused to do the other move because it would ruin the disambiguation page, while people refuse to do this because it's
 * 1) Not official (false)
 * 2) Never used (false)
 * 3) Dumb to use titles (use Peach (Nintendo) if you think Bowser (Nintendo) is a appropriate)

I guess I could leave it alone. But the naysayers are being stubborn; no one is harmed by this - the title is more official than Bowser (Nintendo). -- A Link to the Past 17:16, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * What about because: it was voted against, long since (true), and it's against the naming conventions policy (true)? Isn't persisting in debating the point further in the face of this somewhat, well, "stubborn"? Alai 22:16, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, it does make sense that because it's used less than Bowser, it WOULD be against naming conventions. But has anyone ever called him Bowser (Nintendo)? What are you saying? Does it cause problems? Nope. Does the quality of the name increase? Yup. Are we using an official, canon, 100% approved by every division of Nintendo? Yup. Is it still used? Yup. -- A Link to the Past 22:46, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

Poll: Name move
My King Bowser move failed, but if this does, humanity phales. *chortle* Anyway, considering the fact that Bowser is a main character in one of the most popular characters in the Mario series, the most popular video game ever made, I would go on a limb and say that this character is far more well-known than a Canadian politician, a common name for pets and the guy from Sha Na Na Na. - A Link to the Past (talk) 00:26, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

Support

 * 1) A Link to the Past (talk) 00:26, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
 * 2) After discussing the situation with this article with A Link to the Past, I think that the current disambiguation page at Bowser should be moved and replaced by the current Bowser (Nintendo) article. We do not have any other full-length article on any "Bowser" topic, and the vast majority of incoming links to "Bowser" as of this writing are for the Nintendo character. - RedWordSmith 01:01, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
 * 3) Agree, I don't think anyone typing "Bowser" in the search bar would be looking for any of the other things mentioned on the disambig page.Amren <sup style="color:#63B8FF;">(talk) 01:02, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
 * 4) I still can't figure out why this was disambiguated in the first place. Nifboy 01:42, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
 * 5) Sounds alright to me. <b style="color:mediumblue;">Andre</b> ( talk ) 03:44, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
 * 6) --Apostrophe 03:54, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
 * 7) Support. I agree 100% with RedWordSmith. &mdash; <font color="006000" title="User:Freakofnurture">F REAK OF N URxTURE  ( <font color="006000" title="User talk:Freakofnurture">TALK )  04:58, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
 * 8) Support. After discussing this with A Link to the Past I agree that it would be best to move the pages. Jtkiefer  T - 05:53, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

Bowser as an object
A bowser is a petrol pump, in Australian English, for one. Dysprosia 05:51, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I added that to the main Bowser page. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 06:00, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

King Bowser move
Phales more like Fails it --SPUI (talk) 00:31, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
 * So, you want to move Bowser to Bowser (disambiguation) and move this page to Bowser? If so, and if the others have no problem with it, I can make the move. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 00:30, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
 * This article has been renamed after the result of a move request. Apparently Zscout already took care of this. Dragons flight 03:30, September 2, 2005 (UTC)

I'm bringing up the King Bowser move again. Honestly, you can't argue the more-common thing; it's not a fair comparison, as the only people who usually talk are the heroes, who do not think of Bowser as a King. In the RPGs, however, whenever one of his minions refer to him, they call him King. Like King Arthur, that IS his official title. There's no disputing that. He's never been Prince Bowser, or just Bowser, or Bowser Koopa, or whatever. Since he has been introduced, he has been a King. His name has changed, but his title has not. - A Link to the Past (talk) 22:18, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Object

 * I prefer just plain Bowser. Even his minions call him that. <b style="color:mediumblue;">Andre</b> ( talk ) 01:49, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The games very rarely address him as King Bowser. However, the games frequently mention "Princess Peach" and "Princess Daisy." I think whatever the character is best known as should go. Putting "King Bowser" would be like listing Mario as "Mr. Mario Mario," though some people would argue that that is correct. Also, I think a good standard would be Nintendo's official literature and promotional art, none of which ever refers to Bowser as "King Bowser". Kidicarus222 04:42, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Comments

 * No, his minions call him King. Paper Mario, one of the few games to have speaking minions, uses the King term several times.
 * We use King Bowser in the article, so why not in the title? - A Link to the Past (talk) 00:06, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Image
For one, yes, it is more realistic, but how often is Bowser ever realistic? Arguably, the SSBM Mario image could be considered the better image, but it is not how he is normally depicted. - A Link to the Past (talk) 00:06, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
 * No, he's been portrayed in 3D more. The Mario article has the 3D image and not the cartoon (as do several other game characters). Bowser should too. --DrBat 00:24, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
 * But that model is not even from a Mario game. If a 3D image should be used, it shouldn't be SSBM's. He's been depicted more often as a 2D sprite. - A Link to the Past (talk) 04:07, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Since he's been in so many games before there was 3-D, he's definately appeared more often in 2-D. Why can't we just use in image of 3-D Bowser later in the article?Kidicarus222 06:38, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Since technology has been improved, he's been shown in 3D more. And he looks like a little kid in the Paper image. --DrBat 11:08, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
 * O_o That didn't even make sense. HOW does he look like a little kid? Also, you're arguing that because technology has improved, that he's been in 3D more? If he's been in 2D more, he's been in 2D more. No matter the technology. - A Link to the Past (talk) 22:26, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
 * It was only in 2D due to technological limitations. Once they were able to improve it, they did, and ever since Super Mario 64 he's been three-dimensional (except for the paper game, which its gimmick is paper figures in a three-dimensional world). Im sure Mario has been in more 2D too, and yet he has a 3D image for the main article. --DrBat 23:09, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, but *drumroll* the lead image is NOT SSBM's Mario. - A Link to the Past (talk) 01:18, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I dont see whats the big deal. Its still Bowser. But fine then, use this (it was posted at the top of this page). --DrBat 01:34, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
 * But the super-realistic Bowser is not a popular depiction. - A Link to the Past (talk) 04:23, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Anthropomorphic fan art
Is is just me, or does this not belong in the artile? Kidicarus222 22:41, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * It totally belongs in the article. Bowser fan art&mdash;especially of the gay, beefcake and even adult-oriented variety&mdash;are all over the place. This is relevant because it's an extremely popular fan use of Bowser. Wikipedia isn't simply a canonical Nintendo publication nor an official press release center. It's neutral, and it covers the facts, both corporate and popular. I can provide sources of Bowser fan art and fan fiction in furry, kemono and oyaji genres. Bowser is middle-aged or older, he's muscular, he's chubby, he wears leather and spikes, he has chic hair, and he's badass&mdash;he's a magnet for gay fans. Some of it's pretty and tasteful, and some of it's quite ugly and not what you'd want to show to your children or your mothers, but this is a natural consequence of fans (many who have been playing the franchise since they were children) expressing their diverse appreciation for a favorite character. So do you want the sources? - Gilgamesh 03:59, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, come to think of it, if we should be using a neutral point of view, we should discuss Bowser's long history as a fan art subject, of which a portion is gay and beefcake, and a portion is not. It's important to note that Bowser isn't exactly a gay icon per se, but rather an object of attraction, particularly among men who like bear, chubby, leather, oyaji, etc. In layman's terms, a lot of people think he's hot. - Gilgamesh 04:08, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
 * User:A Link to the Past brought up an excellent point about the commonness of themes in fan material and doujinshi. However, I still think they deserve mention. In this, articles like oyaji already do this a great degree, but I think something brief is still worthy of mention, such as "Bowser has long been a very popular subject of art, fiction and doujinshi made by fans young and old," or something similar. This has been used and is accepted in many articles, such as for Final Fantasy topics. Though FF players tend to start playing those games older than Mario players, I don't see why this mention of older fan involvement is less deserving here than it is in those articles. Get my drift? (Heh, personally I browse a lot of gay art, but I don't have interest in anything I couldn't show my straight friends. Bowser's nice-looking, but I hate porno and BDSM.) - Gilgamesh 04:22, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Then if it really is a big deal, I feel like there should be a link to some of it. I mean, we're supposed to cite our sources, right? Kidicarus222 07:19, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Are you getting tired of Bowser as the villain?
Are you getting tired of Bowser as the villain because I am. Thief Lord 21:20, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Fenk, Wario even has his own software company (WarioWare, Inc.) now. Surely Bowser can star in his own game for once. --Matharvest 07:54, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Ah, but HAS he? Nope, not once. It's not usual that the villain gets to be controlled in games. GamePlayer623 01:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC) 18:02, 3 July 2006

Yoshi's Safari
The rail shooter game 'Yoshi's Safari' (1993) is not mentioned in this article. In the game, developed and published by Nintendo for the SNES, Bowser and the Koopalings invade the Jewelry Kingdom and Peach dispatches Mario and Yoshi to vanquish them.

Last name
Since Bowser's kids in SMA4: SMB3 are the Koopa kids and not the Bowser kids, it is possible that in the US Koopa is Bowser's last name --Wack&#39;d About Wiki 16:52, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Voice?
Where did this information about Frank Welker voicing Bowser come from anyway? While I can't (at the moment) check Mario Party 5 or Mario Kart DS's credits (or M&L:PiT, for reasons obvious), I know he didn't voice Bowser in SM64DS. I checked them earlier, and Frank Welker was not one of the four voice actors listed. Plus, I checked Google, and nowhere on the Internet besides Wikipedia itself says that Welker voiced Bowser. Okay, I've checked Mario Kart DS's credits, and Frank Welker isn't there either. But Scott Burns is. Agent CH 05:26, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, I've been seeing Scott Burns's name on the list of credits ever since Super Mario Sunshine and usually as the third name on the list, below Charles Martinet and Jen Taylor. I've always assumed him to play Bowser. Isaac Marshall did his voice before he had speaking roles, right? Ron Stoppable 07:56, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * That's what the article says, but back then, he always had generic roaring sounds that have been used outside of Mario games as well (an episode of ReBoot, for example). I know Marshall was listed in the Mario Kart 64 credits for Toad, at least. Agent CH 15:47, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Problem with Sephiroth comparison?
I made a comparison to Bowser using disguised clones in Mario Bros. to how Sephiroth does this in FF7. I don't feel that this is inaccurate, and shows it's influence on later games, probably in others I have not thought of. Why was it removed? Tyciol 19:14, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Ocarina of Time, Talon and Malon, WHAT?
I have to contest this... first off, what is a lanyard, and how is this in any way related to Bowser? Malon wears a dress and Talon wears overalls. This needs to get specific. Tyciol 07:47, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Talon and Malon both wear Bowser lanyards in Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time.
 * A lanyard is a cord worn around the neck to hold something like a whistle. So lanyard wouldn't be the right term here - Bowser appears as the medallion on the cord, not the cord itself. But it's still a cameo appearance by Bowser, and as such would belong under "Cameo appearances" where it is. Agent CH 18:17, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Wow, I never noticed that, guess I'll have to beat the entire game over from the beginning to check this out... :) Not knowing what Lanyards were, when they said 'bowser lanyards' I was picturing Malon and Talon in shells. Does Info where one? Must be a family heirloom, which does raise some questions... as well as fanfic ideas. Tyciol 15:00, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Bowser's Neck
Anyone ever notice that Bowser's head is green and his body is orange? If you zoom in on his trophies in Super Smash Bros. Melee, you can look under his spiked collar and see the delineation between the two colors.

Bowser's name
I thought Bowser's name was King Morton Bowser Koopa, Sr.? Because of Morton Koopa, Jr.King Shadeed 00:38, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Morton is a reference. Morton Downey, Jr. - A Link to the Past (talk) 18:48, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
 * He is a royal for gods sake!!! The name must King Bowser Morton Von Koopa I, and Morton jr and Bowser jr´s must be, Prince Bowser ``Morton´´ Von Koopa II and Prince ``Bowser´´ Morton Von Koopa III.
 * What are you talking about? It's just King Bowser Koopa. No II or Mortons or Vons. Why would Von be in the name anyway?
 * ludwig ``VON´´ koopa, and all kings using the roman numbers when their kids have same names!

Fan Joke
I took a line out that read: One fan has joked that, "Bowser isn't really evil, he just likes to kidnap people." It seemed to be one person's opinion and did not furthur anyone's knowledge of the subject. I think most people will agree with me. Robocoppitiesthefool 15:35, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Super Princess Peach
I noted that there was no information about Bowser's appearance on Super Princess Peach, so I added some on the Platformers section. As I haven't finished the game yet, I hope someone can complete/correct this addition. wilerson 17:50, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Bowser over the years
I modified a picture from this site. Should I replace the old one? As one can see, in my version, it contains a more modern Bowser at the end and all of the Bowsers have been flipped in one direction. Well, all except for that Mario Cart one. --MrRandomGuy 07:55, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Before: Image:Bowser over the years in 8 - 32 bit games.JPG

After: Image:YearlyBowser11.jpg

Contridiction..?
"Nintendo has never explained if Bowser has had a wife, though it was once revealed in the Nintendo Official Magazine U.K. that his wife's name was Clawdia"

Doesn't this contridict itself a bit?

Relationship with Peach?
I think this article should mention Bowser's relationship with Princess Peach. It's not fan speculation at all. It's painfully clear that Bowser is in love with Peach, and this is made even more clear by his lines in Super Paper Mario. She doesn't return his feelings, but she still recognizes them, and in Super Paper Mario, she seems to notice how hard he is trying to prove himself as a good husband. Also, I think it's worth mentioning that they were married by Count Bleck, and by the end of the game, the marriage was never broken. Technically, wouldn't Peach still be Bowser's wife, or was this a detail Nintendo overlooked and forgot to cover?

Still one more comment
I don't think the word "Nintendo" is the perfect suffix. This character appears in many computer online games that are based on Nintendo games (but that do not belong in the categories of being like Nintendo games in every way except that they are played with a computer keyboard.) Any opinions?? Georgia guy 01:41, 2 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Still, Bowser is strictly a Nintendo exclusive character and fan made games cannot change that fact. -SaturnYoshi 01:48, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Move to Bowser
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;">
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

I will point out, additionally, that the harshly negative and often incivil tone taken by certain participants in this discussion reflects poorly on them; there is no reason to descend to attacking other contributors, as all participants should be focusing on the substance of the argument, rather than the personalities involved.
 * no move, leave Bowser as a disambiguation page. Briefly:
 * 1) Using a primary/secondary disambiguation rather than placing the disambiguation page at the primary name is a measure intended for cases where one of the items is overwhelmingly the more common one.  In this case, the provided Google results suggest that this is not the case even in online sources—if the Nintendo character was substantially the more common (not "popular," as this has nothing to do with a topic's "popularity" per se) usage, we would expect to see minimal non-Nintendo results in the higher-ranked pages—and almost certainly not the case offline (as the Nintendo usage would be expected to have an advantage over the tanker usage in terms of raw site hits).  In the absence of convincing evidence to do otherwise, the standard convention calls for the disambiguation page to occupy the main title.
 * 2) The (perceived) predominance of a certain usage in the higher-population United States over a lower-population region does not necessarily justify a primary disambiguation; see, for example, Georgia.
 * 3) Those advocating a move have made a number of assertions that, while likely true, are not directly relevant here; the knowledge that the game series in question is the most popular tells us little about how it compares—in terms of usage—with something entirely unrelated to gaming.

I would suggest, incidentally, that a disambiguation like Bowser (character) might be better than the current one. Kirill Lokshin 23:58, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Support. Shortly before this moment, a user has been messing with a few Bowser titles. Georgia guy 00:35, 24 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Support. Someone had moved Bowser to a short description about tanker trucks. I tried to fix it to the way it was but may have complicated things in the process.  The other person didn't take into account all the pages that link to Bowser.  Some help would be appreciated to get things the way they were.  --SaturnYoshi 00:39, 24 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Support. Nintendo's Bowser is by far the most common use of the word. And anyway, didn't it used to be at that title? Why was it moved? -- Steel 08:27, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * A user named JzG moved the page. Georgia guy 13:47, 26 August 2006 (UTC)


 * That user felt that this tiny paragraph about a tanker truck should have been the root for this article name. I managed to move his page to Bowser (tanker truck), but wasn't able to move Mr. Koopa back to the way it was.  The other user didn't bother to think about the practically hundreds of other pages that linked to Bowser which is now a disambiguation page.  --SaturnYoshi 06:04, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * You might want to go talk to JzG and get his opinion on this. -- Steel 16:04, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * JzG still believes that the tanker truck is the more important meaning. He even moved the Nintendo character to the middle of the dis-ambiguation page because he considers it more trivial. Georgia guy 13:53, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * A quick Google search suggests that JzG may in fact be right. -- Steel 14:38, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Support. It seems to be the most common use of the term. --Edgelord 06:40, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong oppose. Not only does the use to describe tankers and fuel dispensers predate the Nintendo character by almost a century, it is also the generic term for gas pump in Australia and New Zealand, where the S. F. Bowser Company had a very strong presence.  It is the standard term for airport fuel tankers and has been since pretty much the invention of the aeroplane.  You'd need some pretty compelling evidence that the Nintendo character is the "most common" usage before you would override that much history and common usage.  Right now bowser redirects to the DAB page, which is perfectly acceptable.  Oh, and Georgia guy?  I don't take kindly to being called a vandal.  You might have at least tried Steel's Google test before launching off on one. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 17:52, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, so you must think that it is too US-centric to have the Nintendo character the primary meaning, for clarification on your view. Georgia guy 17:59, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * There is no need to editorialise my view, which is precisely as stated: this is a term which has almost a century of currency and a usage which extends far beyond the restricted demographic of Nintendo players who can remember the names of individual characters.   Take a look at Hoover. For that matter, take a look at your dictionary: Oxford, Chambers, Merriam-Webster and even bloody Encarta all list the fuel tanker and not the Nintendo character. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 18:02, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * That's because dictionaries don't have Nintendo character names as entries. Georgia guy 18:19, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Regarding your view that older meanings should be considered more important than newer meanings, then I think it makes sense to you that Pi should be at Pi (mathematics) because the oldest meaning of the term is Pi (letter). Georgia guy 18:04, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * That would be the case if a credible case could be made that more than a minority of those coming to Pi are looking for the Greek letter rather than the mathematical constant. In the English language Wikipedia, that is unlikely, but if credible evidence were presented I have no doubt that there would be a debate.  Hoover is a better example: a genericised tradename.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 18:18, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Comment. I've struck out my support above, after the Google search showed that Nintendo's Bowser isn't "by far the most common usage". Having said that, I don't think the tanker truck thing is significantly more common than Nintendo's Bowser to warrant having the actual Bowser page to itself. I'm all for having Bowser as the disambiguation. -- Steel 18:25, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Works for me, and in fact that's where we were back in February of 2005, until someone -- obviously not a vandal ;-) -- moved Bowser to Bowser (disambiguation) and shunted Bowser (Nintendo) back in, which is probably why I'm finding broken multiple redirects all over the place. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 16:51, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, I fixed the redirects and double redirects. All should now be consistent. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know?


 * Support but if it isn't moved back to Bowser then it should be moved to something else (for example "King Bowser"). SNS 21:54, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong Support. It was the name of the article befora a vandal moved it, this is also the most common use for the name. TJ Spyke 01:58, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * How did you work that out, exactly? You do realise you need to go to page 4 of a Google search before Nintendo's Bowser is mentioned, right? -- Steel 16:49, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * What are you talking about? Bowser is the second entry on the FIRST page when you type "Bowser" into Google, third if you don't count his entry here on Wikipedia(which is the second entry).TJ Spyke 21:12, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well for me it goes: http://www.bowser-trains.com/, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowser, http://www.agri-trac.co.uk/index.php?doc=8&cid=31, http://www.mainltd.co.uk/. I did, however, miss some Bowser fansite which is 6th, so forget that 4th page thing. But that's sill 4 entries above the Nintendo Bowser (bearing in mind Wikipedia doesn't count). -- Steel 21:24, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know what you entered, but when I type in Bowser, the first 4 websites are http://www.bowser-trains.com/, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowser, http://www.geocities.com/cursemonkey/bowser/, http://www.jonathonart.com/ TJ Spyke 21:38, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Spyke, you need to pick your words with more care since this particular "vandal" is an administrator. See my comments above for the reasoning behind the change. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 10:54, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * When I type in "Bowser", the first four results are www.bowser-trains.com/, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowser, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Bowser, & www.geocities.com/cursemonkey/bowser/ SNS 21:49, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * We could be here all night with this, but I took a print screen (apologies for the small size) of what appears for me when I type in Bowser. Anyway, Nintendo's Bowser needs to be significantly more common than the rest to warrant having the Bowser page (i.e. The majority of the first page on Google being Nintendo related sites), which is not the case. -- Steel 21:52, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Is there any point in not moving it to Bowser seeing as it redirects to this page? Nemu 00:21, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh no it doesn't, it redirects to the disambiguation page, just as Hoover goes to the disambiguation. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 16:49, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Strong Support. There was already a successful move, and this move was made despite that and not discussing it. The video game villain is the most notable usage of the word. - A Link to the Past (talk) 03:31, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * So you say. Perhaps you can provide some verifiable evidence of that?  The Oxford English Dictionary, Chambers and Encarta, to name but three, disagree. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 10:54, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I almost don't even want to bother with such a laughable argument, but... Ever notice how they don't even MENTION Bowser? BECAUSE THEY ARE FICTIONAL CHARACTERS. The dictionary does not list fictional characters. This is a terrible argument. - A Link to the Past (talk) 18:32, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * There's no need to get stroppy about this. If you say that this is the most notable usage of the word, it's not much to ask that you back that up with something... anything. -- Steel 19:14, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I echo Steel's comment, and I would also suggest that the reason they give the older usage is not simply that this one is fictional, but because it has been around for most of a century. Which is a tiny bit longer than Nintendo :-) And as I may have hinted above, making snide comments to administrators over twice your age is not a particularly productive approach, assuming you want to keep editing... Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 20:55, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Notice: Nintendo was founded in 1889 ;) -- Steel 21:00, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, sorry. How about the fact that the Mario series of video games is the most known and biggest video game series ever created by far? That Bowser appeared in cartoons, comics, video games, a movie, et al. throughout the world? Saying that Bowser, like every fictional character ever made, doesn't appear in the dictionary is a poor argument. Essentially, that argument is saying that Bowser, the video game villain, doesn't deserve the main article because he is fictional. You are arguing that because Bowser doesn't appear in the dictionary (because he is fictional), he is not more notable. My argument of Mario being the biggest video game franchises that ever existed is much bigger than your dictionary thing (which is more or less saying that because he is fictional, he is less notable by default). Come up with something better than that. - A Link to the Past (talk) 22:50, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * What, bigger and better known than gas pumps in Australia? I don't think so. What I have done is to fix the major substantive objection raised thus far - inbound links - and in the process mend a large number of double and sometimes triple redirects.  What we have now is a term with multiple meanings, each of which is given an article which is unambiguous.  People from Australia and New Zealand, or anyone from one of the former colonies who wonders why a water tanker is called a bowser, will find the information they want, and the browsing of Nintendo fans is not disrupted in any way because the links are all correct, and if they do by some quirk go straight to Bowser they will get a dab page.  This works just fine.  I'm happy to acept Steel's judgment of parity, which is what we have now, but the repeated assertion that Nintendo is the most common usage, to the point of occupying the Bowser page, lacks any evidential basis and goes against some very strong counter-arguments, not least of which the fact that bowser is listed as a tanker in dictionaries and other encyclopaedias.  A consensus between Nintendo users and other Nintendo users is not worth much against this long-standing usage.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:34, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * So you use Australia? Hmmm... Yeah, so much bigger in population than North America, Canada and Europe, all of whom likely know Bowser as Bowser or King Koopa. Seriously, I am so freaking sick and tired of you elitists coming in and saying "oh, you're just Nintendo fans and this is just a video game article, it's lesser because of said status and your opinions are worth less than mine because I write real articles blahditty blahditty blah". Christ, what is your problem? Telling me that the fact that Mario is one of the biggest names in video games ever, one of the biggest names in video games at present and one of the biggest fictional icons in the world is a worse argument than the fact that Bowser does not appear in the dictionary (along with Sherlock Homes, Robin Hood, Darth Vader and Donkey Kong)? There was a consensus to move it to Bowser, and I wish you would actually consider these people as Wikipedians instead of "a bunch of Nintendo fans". AKA: Show an ounce of respect to anyone but yourself and those who agree with you. - A Link to the Past (talk) 08:44, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * O RLY? I am from the UK and can say, hand on heart, that I have never heard of the Nintendo character before. You are making the fundamental mistake of assuming that everybody is not only a video game player, but a player of Mario Brothers games on Nintendo.  I suggest to you that if the number of people playing Mario on Nintendo is as high as 5% of the total population it would be a great surprise.  Remember, this is a household word in Asutralia and New Zealand, used every day.  How many adult Americans, for example, do you think refer to the Nintendo character by name as part of their daily lives?  How many copies of the biggest-selling Mario game are out there?  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 09:36, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I just thought I'd throw this in here: I'm a Nintendo fan, and all the articles I edit here on Wikipedia are videogame related. A Link To The Past, kindly stop throwing round the accusation that the only people who would oppose this proposed move are those who "look down" on Nintendo fans and see them as "lesser" beings, because it's simply not true. -- Steel 16:48, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Despite the fact that the tanker truck use of the word may be more popular (more so with older people), or may have originated first, its article is barely a paragraph long and doesn't even cite any sources. On the other hand, this article has been well established for quite a while now and had several more articles that linked to it.  Now, because of this undiscussed change, all the links on the other articles need to be changed, causing a hassle that we never had to begin with.  -SaturnYoshi 22:14, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The link issue (which isn't really an issue at all) has been dealt with. See Special:Whatlinkshere/Bowser. -- Steel 22:19, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Length of articles is irrelevant, merely an example of systemic bias. There is no doubt scope for a much longer article on the S. F. Bowser corporation and its history. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 09:36, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure it was a good idea to change all those links before this discussion ended. Even if this article doesn't get moved back to "Bowser", it doesn't mean it will stay as "Bowser (Nintendo)". For example the characters of Peach & Daisy are at "Princess Peach" & "Princess Daisy" respectively not "Peach (Nintendo)" & "Daisy (Nintendo)". SNS 22:39, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Additionally, if this turns out in favor of keeping it at Bowser, I expect the one who changed all Bowser links to Bowser (Nintendo) to change them back (not by reverting, by removing, so no added content is lost). - A Link to the Past (talk) 03:46, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * If there is a consensus to move the article to another title, Cyde can bot-change the links or I will AWB them. What title is more appropriate than Bowser (Nintendo)?  Koppa, perhaps?  As noted above, bowser is not really an option here due to long-standing usage predating Nintendo and spreading to a far wider community than video game players. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 09:19, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Strongly oppose per JzG. --kingboyk 09:11, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Erm, wait a minute... The character's full name according to the bold text in the article is King Bowser Koopa. King Bowser Koopa redirects here. Surely the solution is to move the page there. --kingboyk 11:24, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * "Mohandas Ghandhi"'s article is on "Mahatma Ghandi", the reason being that's the most common name he's refered to as. How man people go about mentioning Bowsers full names and title? Jefffire 11:45, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, because there's no other Mahatma Ghandi to challenge for the slot. My suggestion was based on this rationale: Bowser is a disambiguation page, and that's not likely to change as far as I can see. You've been forced into a second-choice name of Bowser (Nintendo). What I'm saying is, since you're being lumbered with a second choice name wouldn't King Bowser Koopa be better than Bowser (Nintendo)?
 * Forced? How are we being forced? The majority seems to want it their way - ie, Bowser (Nintendo) at Bowser. The fact of the matter is that your only argument is that Bowser is a fictional character - Hell, he's a video game character, that's even worse than being fictional, right? The only half-decent arguments are pointing out alternative uses of the word Bowser in certain regions. However, it's only half-decent because it applies only to one region. Let's assume that the video game character is known as Bowser 1/8 of the time in Australia, while the gas pumps are known as Bowser the rest of the time. But if we asked people in North America or Europe what a "Bowser is", what are the odds that they would say a gas pump over the video game character? - A Link to the Past (talk) 19:51, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * As for your other question, I've no idea. I imagine that most people - like me - have never even heard of this character. --kingboyk 11:59, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * To be quite honest, nobody calls him by his full name (indeed, I didn't even know that was his full name and I've been playing Mario games for yonks). Bowser (Nintendo) is better than King Bowser Koopa, In my opinion. -- Steel 16:48, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It should be noted that if this move would fail, it can be moved to King Bowser, but it should not be moved there unless it fails. - A Link to the Past (talk) 20:38, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Okie dokie, that's fair enough. Thanks for listening to my suggestion. --kingboyk 19:08, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * support. &mdash; Dan | talk 20:29, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't the most notable article be given the page? None of the other articles are very important. 65.175.199.104 20:32, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Regardless, JzG, I might decide to show you an ounce of respect if you lay off the article assuming that this move succeeds, and if it fails I will do the same. And I hope you fix all of the links (because if it does succeed, it will be even more broken than it once was). - A Link to the Past (talk) 20:38, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Bowser should be the disambig page, all the other Bowsers should be Bowser (whatever). --SigPig 22:49, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Strong oppose as per SigPig etc. -- Beardo 01:26, 2 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Let me lay down a couple of rules here. 1) Please don't refer to JzG or other admins as vandals. 2) A Link to the Past, Guy has said on repeated occasions that if there's any mess to be cleaned up with regards to incoming links he will sort it out. If you continue with incivility and acting as though you own this article you will be issued with a 24 hour block. --kingboyk 07:45, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
 * What, so he shouldn't be under any obligation to clean up his own mess assuming this move vote passes? And what are you talking about?! For Christ's sake, how the Hell am I acting like I own the article anymore than he is? I don't expect you to give him a speech after he decided that the previous vote was invalid because it was a bunch of Nintendo fanboys. Gee, what a surprise - a supporter of Just zis Guy yells at someone else for doing something Just zis Guy does ten fold. The fact of the matter is that Guy knew that there was a consensus and decided to not discuss it because of who the people on the talk page were, and decide that they aren't worth the bandwidth and moved the page despite blatant opposition to it. He deserves no respect for being bold and pissing in the eyes of people who have a differing opinion. And you, talking to me as if I'm taking ownership of this article, I didn't decide that my word is the only true word and move this page, he did. And by exclusively choosing to tell me to not act the way that JZG has been acting, you don't make it hard to figure out tha you're a biased elitist who is defending anyone on his side from anything, legitimate or not. If this vote goes in your favor, I won't decide that your opinions are worth crap and do things my way, but for some reason, JzG doing exactly that isn't anything bad. I guess it's to be expected; it's not too common to see admins like you blindly defend anyone on his side because they're on his side. You really have no place in this discussion, considering how far you are towards one side. - A Link to the Past (talk) 08:31, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Oy. Exactly how long is this discussion supposed to carry on? Not to change the subject from A Link to the Past, but I'm beginning to think that this argument is going to last forever. If not that, then a better part of it. -SaturnYoshi 08:40, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Very good question. Usually until there is consensus. Guy? --kingboyk 08:57, 2 September 2006 (UTC)


 * """" I've never heard of this Bowser character, however in the UK we also use the term to refer to both oil bowsers and also water bowsers that are put on streets if there is a cut to the main supply. Therefore I'd think that Bowser as in Tanker should be the main page and Bowser (Nintendo) should be the name of this page. --Charlesknight 08:53, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, a bowser is a tank of some description to me too (also British). That's why I feel that having Bowser as a dab page is actually quite generous. --kingboyk 08:57, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

The term of Bowser being a tank is rarely used (if at all) in the United States. It is also here in the US (as well as Japan) that the majority of Nintendo players are. I'm guessing that most of the people who edit Nintendo related articles are also from the US which is why there is a lot of arguing and bashing back and forth. What this whole argument really boils down to is just a difference in Nationality. Therefore, it might be best if the stand-alone term of Bowser is left at the disambiguation page. -SaturnYoshi 09:17, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't really care if this is moved or not, but if I may ask: Why the hell do you expect dictionaries to list video game characters? Or any fictional characters at all, for that matter? That makes no sense whatsoever. You may have a perfectly good argument to make, but that isn't it (nor is "OMG it's fictional!!!", incidentally).--SB | T 19:57, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Support unlike Kirby, this Bowser is still the most common. igordebraga ≠ 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong support. This is the most well known Boswer. Make the disambiguation page "Bowser (disambiguation)". It should have never been moved in the first place. Edgecution 06:30, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Can I just point out that everyone is making sweeping comments about how this is the most well known bowser but you haven't provided any evidence that that is the case. This shows that it is not the most common usage in general, this and this show the alternative (non-Nintendo) uses being used in everyday language throughout the world (I.e. not just Australia). I can find more links to illustrate this if anyone would like me to. -- Steel 09:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Will you please cease your trolling? Just because it does not declare what we say absolute fact, you call the fact that the Mario franchise was extremely popular and still is not evidence? The fact of the matter is that people who have played SMB, SMB3, SMW, SM64, SMW2, SMS, New SMB, etc. often know who either King Koopa or Bowser are. You act as if Bowser is an obscure character in the franchise. The only evidence you have is a Google search which shows one link ahead of a link to Bowser, and yet you say that's better evidence than "Mario being the biggest franchise in video games and one of the biggest fictional series ever"? - A Link to the Past (talk) 20:29, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


 * further to my suggestion on your talkpage - please refrain from using language like "trolling" when discussing matters with other editors. --Charlesknight 20:31, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Two of those links are UK based which only proves that the tanker use of the word is the most popular in the UK (to include Austrailia and New Zealand). However, the video game character is the most popular usage of the term in the US.  -SaturnYoshi 11:06, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Again, you've just stated that "this bowser is the most popular usage" without backing it up with anything. I ran a Google.com search (as opposed to the .co.uk one above), which returned much the same results. May I also point out that the first results on Google for bowser are actually U.S. based sites. -- Steel 16:01, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Howabout a disambig. page as Bowser the game character is named after Bowser the real life member of Sha Na Na.L0b0t 12:49, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, as of that, then it makes equal sense to you that Pi should be at Pi (mathematics) because that use was named after the Greek letter Pi (letter). Georgia guy 13:44, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Who ever said that Bowser was named after some guy in Sha Na Na??? -SaturnYoshi 14:35, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Because he IS named after Bowser from Sha Na Na, all but one of the Koopa bosses (Bowser and his kids) are named after musicians in the English version of the games. Wendy O., Lemmy, Ludwig von, Roy, Iggy, Larry. The only one who is not named after a musician is Morton Koopa jr..L0b0t 22:21, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

If we're tring to get it away from the (Nintendo) part, why not move it to King Bowser? Nemu 16:10, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Because he's commonly known as Bowser. King Bowser should be a last result. - A Link to the Past (talk) 20:29, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Most people don't refer to Peach as Princess Peach, but the article is named that. It's the same thing for Bowser. Nemu 20:54, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, most people refer to Peach as Princess Peach and that is what she is usually refered to in games. TJ Spyke 21:45, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Crikey! This is one stroppy argument. Still, I'm not convinced that the Nintendo usage is overwhelming both on and offline, so Weak Oppose. --maru  (talk)  contribs 22:44, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

It was never stated anywhere that Bowser Koopa is named after anyone in Sha Na Na. Besides... Morton Koopa, Jr. was named for Morton Downey, Jr. It was Larry who was not named after a musician. He was named after Larry King. -SaturnYoshi 23:17, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Should this just be moved to King Bowser?
Either King Bowser or King Bowser Koopa would be better than the current name. Articles will sometimes include titles like that anyways. 00:10, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I personally prefer "King Bowser Koopa", myself. It is his full official name in the States after all.  -SaturnYoshi 03:00, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * But we don't list Peach at "Princess Peach Toadstool", she's at "Princess Peach".


 * I agree that King Bowser or King Bowser Koopa would be better then the "Bowser (Nintendo)". SNS 04:01, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * As and when you settle on a better name, let me know and I'll fix up the links. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:28, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi JzG. Can you move it to King Bowser Koopa.  There's already history there, so this takes an admin.  Thanks, Ben Aveling 08:43, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Final answer? Happy to do it, but I'd prefer to do it just the once :-) Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:58, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't move it to King Bowser Koopa. While it technically may be his full name figured out by piecing bits of information together from different games, nobody actually uses that name. King Bowser is fine, IMO. -- Steel 10:43, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * King Bowser Koopa has never been used all together. There is no indication that Nintendo feels King Bowser Koopa is the official name, as they never used the name. Move to King Bowser. - A Link to the Past (talk) 15:11, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm convinced. Let's move it to King Bowser.  Ben Aveling 02:47, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Does this mean we've finally come to a decision? -SaturnYoshi 04:56, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * King Bowser Koopa is his full name. I would rather have him at "Bowser", but we have some bull-headed editors here who managed to move it and then block the attempt to move it back. Anyways, "King Bowswer" is the second most common name for him, so I would support that move. TJ Spyke 05:37, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Alternate hypothesis: we have some bull-headed editors who insist that a character in a video game is more significant that a tradename which became genericised many decades ago to the point where it is now mentioned in dictionaries and treeware encyclopaedias, as well as being the local term for gas pump across an entire continent. I have completed the move to King Bowser as requested and am fixing the links. Guy 11:19, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[unindenting] Oh, stop. The discussion ended, and the matter is decided (for the time being, anyway...), so quit squabbling. It's unproductive to make such a comment, but it's equally unproductive to respond to it.--SB | T 12:24, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the move, Guy. Now the article content itself can once again be the main concern. -SaturnYoshi 19:46, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Bowser's Death: Yet Again
Re the issue of Bowser's death - it should be noted that Madame Clairvoya poses a question - "COULD King Boo have revived Bowser?" Therefore, the answer could equally be yes or no. I've always thought that it was some kind of very convincing robotic suit thing, so I've added that possibility back into the article. After all, Bowser is clearly not dead at the end of Super Mario 64 - he simply says "Bwahaha! I'll cower away for a bit", or similar. 'Revived' should not be presumed to mean "from the dead" - Bowser states at the end of SM64 that he needs to go and recover his strength. Well, whatever it is, King Boo clearly pilots it, so if it is Bowser, he's not corpus mentus. Makron1n 15:41, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * But the question still is "Could King Boo have revived Bowser?", meaning that Bowser needs reviving, and King Boo may or may not have done so. The question still implies that Bowser is dead.--204.169.23.246 20:25, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't believe that it implies he is dead, merely that he needs reviving in some way - it might be, for example, that his magical abilities are spent. Makron1n 22:56, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Reviving could refer to death or a state of coma; but reviving someone because they lost their abilities doesn't make sense. 138.192.30.199 23:29, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, I quite like the article as is now. The 'Bowser disguise' possibility is included, and the line 'Bowser-like spiritual entity' is a good one (kudos to you if you wrote it, and I imagine you did), since it's likely that this 'Bowser' is a supernatural doppelganger created by King Boo (hollow insides and a clean head-split, but magical abilities aplenty). Peace and love for all, then.Makron1n 00:00, 10 September 2006 (UTC)No because bowserjr ownes a magic pot so he dragged him in and he was revived

He could have died for Luigi's mansion at the end of Paper Mario so why are we saying Super Mario 64 when Paper Mario takes place after it.

Agreed, if no-one can decide, keep all possilities open.

Chamillionaire
Shouldn't there be something such as a link about Chamillionaire? King Koopa is a name he goes by I think it would be unjust to not even mention it. When I search wikipedia for king koopa i am redirected to this page. 69.212.19.245 02:53, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Requested move
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;">
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

no consensus. Kyle Barbour 23:50, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

King Bowser → Bowser (Nintendo)  – Use most common name. My move was reverted because of the existence of a short and ridiculous "discussion" to have it at "King Bowser" out of irrational dislike of parenthesis in names. The article doesn't even use the name. ' (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 01:38, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Survey
''Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" or other opinion in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion with ~


 * Oppose. It is not used to refer to Bowser because he is not most often called King Bowser. However, he is CALLED King Bowser. He IS a King. Not only that, but Bowser (Nintendo) would need to be moved; it would have to be Bowser (video game character). Plus, there's a better chance that people will search for King Bowser than they will Bowser (Nintendo); King Bowser is a real name used by several characters to refer to him. The fact that he is not commonly known as such is irrelevant; we rarely have enemies speaking, who would be the only ones who would call him King Bowser. Of course Bowser is more common, because the only people we often see speaking wouldn't call him King. - A Link to the Past (talk) 02:10, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
 * "It is not used to refer to Bowser because he is not most often called King Bowser." You just outright stated that "Bowser" is the most common name. Your argument that "he's called that" makes absolutely no sense. Mark Twain is called Samuel Langhorne Clemens, thus we should move his page there? I'm not disputing the existence of the name; I am disputing the sense of having this page here. "Plus, there's a better chance that people will search for King Bowser than they will Bowser (Nintendo)". No, they'd type in "Bowser", which sends them to the disambiguation page. Which is a testament to the fact that Bowser is a more common name; "King Bowser" is rarely used.


 * Your argument, overall, makes little sense to me. Please be more direct than jumping all over the place. Furthermore, Bowser (video game character) is not the accepted style, so I have no idea where the Hell you got that from, or why that is an argument against moving. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 02:21, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


 * As far as naming conventions go, Bowser (Video game character) would be the proper name, Bowser (Nintendo) is incorrect, as one should be as specific as possible when naming. Bowser is a video game character, Bowser is not Nintendo. Bowser (Video game character of Nintendo) would be more accurate still, but is unnecessarily lengthy. For more clarification, please see Naming_conventions. Thanks! <font color="#FF4F00">Gene S. Poole 04:16, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Precisely - if it were moved, it would not be moved to (Nintendo), but at the very least, (video game character). If naming conventions says we should be specific, why not be as specific as possible? Hmm? - A Link to the Past (talk) 04:31, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


 * May I suggest looking around? Alice (Alice's Adventures in Wonderland), Lumiere (Beauty and the Beast), Paine (Final Fantasy), Sora (Kingdom Hearts), Crash (Ice Age), Lynx (Chrono Cross), Trust (100 Bullets). That's really only the tip of the iceberg. "Nintendo", I daresay, is more specific than "video game character" since the former indicates what company he's from, not just the media (which completely ignores his television and film appearances). '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 04:36, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
 * My bad, yo. I meant inspecific. - A Link to the Past (talk) 05:23, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Could be moved to either Bowser (Nintendo) or even Bowser (Mario). There are precedents for either choice: Boo (Nintendo), Pokey (Nintendo), Toad (Nintendo) or Chomp (Mario), Dry Bones (Mario), Mother Brain (Metroid) -- Exitmoose 01:27, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Support moving to "Bowser (something)". Since his name is Bowser and he's called Bowser. And his name is called Bowser. --Yath 03:32, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Support moving to Bowser (Nintendo). This was my first choice back in August, but we'd just had a huge argument about disambiguations so I didn't make a fuss about it. -- Steel 13:20, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Support I think he's referred to as "King Koopa" much more often than "King Bowser." In Smash Brothers I know that they announce him as just "Bowser," and in Mario RPG it was either "Bowser" or "King Koopa." I've never actually heard anyone call him "King Bowser" before, however I've never played Mario 64 or Mario Sunshine so I can't be sure.  I think he's basically just known as "Bowser," but if you're going to address his royalty in his name "Koopa" is the way to go, not "Bowser." -- Quixoto 15:09, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
 * In the Paper Mario games, his minions call him King Bowser. - A Link to the Past (talk) 19:09, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong Oppose His correct name is King Bower (King Bower Koopa actually, but that is another story). Bowser is just shorthand (the same way Princess Peach is sometimes just called Peach). TJ Spyke 23:18, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * "Princess Peach" is very common naming for that specific character. "King Bowser" is not for this character. If you're going to keep his "title", it might as well be at "King Koopa", as that name is far more common than "King Bowser". '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 23:25, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * He hasn't been called King Koopa since the Super NES days (when Peach was called Princess Toadstool). My point is his name (in English) is King Bowser with "Bowser" just beig short for it. If you want my honest opinion, the page should just be at "Bowser" and move Bowser to "Bowser (disambiguation)". TJ Spyke 23:33, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Let's not have a re-run of that discussion. -- Steel 23:35, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The point is that "King Koopa" is more common usage than "King Bowser", which is only used in rare cases. Those rare cases don't warrant keeping the article somewhere instead of what most people and games refer to him as. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 02:04, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It is also retconned. And the rare cases of him being called King Bowser are on account of the fact that his minions are rarely seen speaking. He is called King Bowser in all Mario RPGs following Super Mario RPG. - A Link to the Past (talk) 03:07, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Whether something is canon or not isn't something that we dabble on. (Nor do you have evidence of such. Then again, such concerns never impede you.) This is all a distraction from the point that "King Bowser" is not a common name, regardless. I don't care if his minions don't talk very much. I don't care if they call him "King Bowser". Ignoring the fact that minions usually overstate the position of their leaders ("Lord Galvatron", "my master", "your highness", and the such). What I care about is whatever the most common name for Bowser is, and that is overwhelmingly "Bowser". TJ Spyke seems to agree, but his opposition is bizarrely based on his dislike of the disambiguation discussion. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 03:21, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Support: Compare the Ghits for Bowser without "King Bowser" to the Ghits for "King Bowser" alone. The results are over 60:1 in favor of "Bowser".  I recognize that straight comparing the Ghits for "Bowser" to "King Bowser" would be unfair (given an extra term), so the results for "Bowser" remove any hits that contain the term "King Bowser".  If "King Bowser" was near as common a term as Bowser itself, we still might not see 1:1 parity (given the problems with adding terms to a search in google), but the 60:1 ratio undeniably confirms that "Bowser" is the more common of the terms for this character.  Add to this the fact that the character is referred to by this name on the official Nintendo website and the choice is clear. -- Exitmoose 01:22, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Just to comment on my own post here, I think it's disappointing that Ghits weren't brought up in the above discussion regarding Bowser (Nintendo) -> Bowser. Of the 1,370,000 hits for "Bowser" alone, 889,000 hits also contain the word "Mario" and 629,000 hits contain the word "Nintendo".  I know it's not relevent to the current discussion, but if this data had been introduced above, when those opposing the move were asking for usage data to back up the claim, this current survey probably would not be taking place. -- Exitmoose 00:24, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe you should make that request. His English name is King Bowser, or Bowser for short (the same way Princess Peach is sometimes called Peach or Princess Zelda called Zelda). So, the aricle should either be Bowser or King Bowser, not Bowser (Nintendo). TJ Spyke 00:26, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Mother Brain's name is "Mother Brain", not "Mother Brain (Metroid)". Toad's name is "Toad", not "Toad (Nintendo)".  While I think this article should be at Bowser given usage, that doesn't mean that the article should be at King Bowser if it can't be at Bowser (for the reasons described above).  "Name (context)" is as well established a convention as any on Wikipedia. -- Exitmoose 05:19, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Discussion
''Add any additional comments
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Hair Graphics
Can it really be said that 'graphical limitations' are what made Koopa bald in the original super mario bros? They could have easily given him hair the same orange color as his skin.

64.122.208.51, the reason is the same reason Mario has a hat on. They couldn't animate the hair moving around. Wikipedian64 11:24, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Bowser (smb1).png
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King Bowser Koopa
Where did "King Bowser Koopa" come from? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 23:49, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Check the discussion above. Apparently if you piece together information from various games (released decades apart), that's his "proper" name. -- Steel 23:51, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I had a feeling, but there was always the slim possibility it had a source. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 23:52, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

King Bowser Koopa, as a name, comes from "Ignorance is Bliss", which is a Nintendo-themed song about King Koopa capturing Peach, and his plans involving Dinosaur Land and such. Other than that, the games have never used the name together. It's always King Koopa in Japan, and Bowser otherwise (with rare exceptions). Koopa also addresses Peach as "Miss Toadstool".

It also comes from the Mario Megasite, as well as Peach Toadstool, so it's technically official to the games. 208.101.166.28 18:30, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Pronouncing
How do you pronounce Bowser? With "ow" like in "how" or like in "show"? --82.207.191.77 19:27, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * his is probabally not the best place to ask this but I am quite sure how the proper way to pronounce it. Misread that but it should be pronounced like the ow in how. --67.71.78.161 19:16, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Bow. Ryhmes with how. Ser. ryhmes with...tht doesn't rhyme... Angry Sun 19:26, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure all of the games I've played that feature his name being spoken pronounce it "Bauw-zurr". As the others stated, the Bow part rhymes with the word "how". D<font color="Purple">i saster K<font color="Purple">i rby 21:08, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

image
whats with the image? it's full of contradictory claims - the article calls it new smb's, but the image calls it both mp8's and mp7's. - A Link to the Past (talk) 21:29, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, it was my mistake, (and a few other people's). But it is all fixed up now! -- Penubag  22:18, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I think its because recently, Nintendo appears to be simply recycling old artwork or only changing it slightly, making some games look like they have similar looking artwork; in fact, I think the bulk of the Mario Kart Arcade GP 2 artwork is nothing but recycled pictures. -- Lord Crayak

??
from 1st paragraph:

"(for example in Super Mario Sunshine in which his voice sounds somewhat similar to the Cookie Monster),"

Isn't this more of a fan's opinion? I mean, yes he does sound similar to the Cookie monster, but it is not worth mentioning. &quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 02:15, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Funny
I asked Nintendo themselves what is Bowser's offical name in America, and they said it is Bowser, not King Bowser. I will be changing the title of the article in like a week. &quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 00:58, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Emailing Nintendo does not qualify as "asking Nintendo themselves". - A Link to the Past (talk) 04:13, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

The reason is? &quot;THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!&quot; 03:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It's original research, not something anyone else can see for themselves. Please, don't move this article; it's name has been the subject of numerous lengthy discussions. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 03:18, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Picture needs replaced
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/4875/300pxbowsermp8ni3.png This is the current Image of Bowser. Please replace the Mario Party 7 Bowser for this one.
 * Why? It's the exact same character model. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 17:34, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with AMIB that we shouldn't use that model, but I don't think we should use the current one either. We should use the New Super Mario Bros. model, since it's a main game.
 * Also, AMIB, I left a message on your cruft talk page. - A Link to the Past (talk) 18:24, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The image should be replace with his Super Smash Bros. Brawl image, just like Link's. Willy105 15:40, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

No... becuase it's from the Main Game. And Link's came from TP... Angry Sun 04:37, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Clawdia
Do we have any proof that she is non-existant? ~ Angry Sun


 * When you claim something exists, it's usually up to you to prove it, not the other way around. Nemu 23:35, 5 May 2007 (UTC)


 * One cannot prove the negative. Do you have any proof that she is existant? For that way as well, gaming magazines and such are genrally considered to be non-canonical; only the games themselves qualify for canonical status. For one to prove her existance, one would have to cite an instance in a game in which she appeared. <font color="#FF4F00">Gene S. Poole 23:38, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Well what about Nintendo UK's Magazine?

Not enough proof? ~ Angry Sun


 * see above. video game mags are non-canon <font color="#FF4F00">Gene S. Poole 23:38, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Um...The Magazines announce the games that we play...so I'd say they are canon... ~ Angry Sun


 * They're written by people that have no involvement in the game projects. What they say doesn't supersede set game canon (which gives no mention of a wife). It's probably just a joke anyways, or some other form of media like the comics, which have no baring on characters in other forms of media. Nemu 00:02, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The Super Metroid Comic was canon so that's no excuse... These are people who work on the games! ~ Angry Sun


 * No, it appears to be a separate take on the story (unique characters, different pacing), so that makes it a separate entity from the game; thus, it isn't canon to the games. I believe they're written by someone not involved in making the games or writing the story of the games as it's an American made comic. Nemu 00:10, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Did you know that Nintendo Commissioned that those comics be canon so that they can explain what could not be shown... ~ Angry Sun


 * I doubt it. It isn't a simple "before the story" take on the game; it's an entirely unique take on the story from beginning to end. Back up the claim before trying to convince me otherwise. Nemu 00:17, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Also, sign your posts with ~ . Nemu 00:18, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm working on it as we speak While I'm doing that...I found this...

"Actually the Metroid comic is canon. It was commissioned to fill in the story the games couldn't." 00:21, 6 May 2007 (UTC) Angry Sun


 * Source? I have no idea if you just pulled that out of your ass or not without one. Just to let you know, even if by some strange reason you can prove your point for the SM comic, it will have no effect here, unless you can do the same for the "Clawdia" comic or whatever. Nemu 00:41, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Tanooki is a Metroid Expert...and knows everything about the series and knows what happened. Angry Sun 00:47, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * A forum member's opinion is not a reliable source as it's truth cannot be Verified or attributed to anything. Unless you can get an official source, it's not going to be considered true. Nemu 00:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

I have found something comingfrom the same forum...

It was featured in the Metroid 20th Anniversay as being canon. Angry Sun 15:58, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * You need to cite some valid sources, otherwise it is unsourced, and not admissable. As TTN advised, forum posts are not a valid source, as anyone can post to a forum; and it doesn't make their statements factual. What is this Metroid 20th Anniversary? A game? Official documentation included with the game? A magazine? A reputable website? This stuff needs to be sourced. <font color="#FF4F00">Gene S. Poole 21:19, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

It was in a Magazine called GameTM. I can't find a scan however... Angry Sun 14:44, 7 May 2007 (UTC)


 * As mentioned previously, video game magazines are not canonical. <font color="#FF4F00">Gene S. Poole 01:07, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

And you don't know that. Angry Sun 01:16, 10 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, listen, before you go making claims like that, make sure you're standing on firm ground. Try actually reading up on these three things, and then get back to me. Magazine articles are not a valid source for canon; only the games and official documentation included therein, such as the manuals, are considered canon. <font color="#FF4F00">Gene S. Poole 01:22, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

some google searching later:

Clawdia: I'm not a real Nintendo character! I was created by Lemmy's Land to answer the question about who the Koopalings' Mom and Bowser's wife was. 

Other than that, there is no mentioning of anyone claiming Clawdia, no (anything near) official mentioning of Clawdia, besides the Nintendo Power UK (Official Magazine), and even the fansites (who're the only current source of Clawdia) consider this information Non-Canon. 85.149.120.16 20:06, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Koopa Cruiser
There was something I noticed. If Bowser had this weapon since he was a baby...And a Koopa Troopa said they were STILL paying it off... Then Bowser is either lazy or it's a huge bill. Do you think we could fit that in somewhere? Angry Sun 14:59, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

LOL never thought about that before. Not sure where we could put it. User:Pal101

I guess both ;) 85.149.120.16 20:08, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Becoming less evil?
I've seen that throughout the series Bowser has been becoming LESS evil. I don't really think of him as a villain anymore, but more as an anti hero. Should we list him in as an anti hero, instead of a villain? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ridley76 (talk • contribs)
 * No, because the only game I can think of Bowser of being an antihero is Paper Mario 2 (Thousand year door) and Paper Mario3. Also, a recent game, Super Mario Sunshine has bowser as the main villian, also in the upcoming wii game, screen shots from Super Mario Galaxy shows that Bowser is definatly evil, and most likely playes the same roll as in Super Mario Sunshine.-- Penubag  07:40, 18 July 2007 (UTC)


 * don't forget to consider... Super Mario RPG!
 * Bowser very relucantly joined the good side in Super Mario RPG, and only because he was desperate and didn't have any other choice. 67.161.208.225 17:22, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:CartoonBowserSMB3.jpg
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The bot is wrong, I put a detailed fair-use rationale on the image when I first uploaded it. -- Lord Crayak

Fair use rationale for Image:CartoonBowserSMB3.jpg
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 * This appears to be fixed. <font color="#275CA9">Nihiltres ( <font color="#000">t .l ) 19:23, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

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Fair use rationale for Image:CartoonBowserSMB3.jpg
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What is with this bot?! This is like, the third time this has happened! I included a source, fair use rationale, non-free television screenshot copyright template, made sure the image was low quality, etc. What does it want?! Lord Crayak 19:28, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Category: Fictional dinosaurs
I removed the category fictional dinosaurs from this article in July. Since I've been a bit busy, I've been unable to continue going through the category as I started back then, so, apologies for the delay. Now, to my point: This edit re-adds the category, saying, "in the context of the movie, he is a fictional dinosaur". Okay. The Koopa disambiguity page refers to them as turtles. I'm now honestly not sure if a single paragraph should let the whole Bowser article be categorised as a fictional dinosaur article, so I'll be leaving him in for now... but suffice to say I'd love to see some input here. -pinkgothic 13:21, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Kidnappings... a fraud?
I've noticed that Bowser seems to "kidnap" Peach MANY times. I don't have a full list, but it's clearly too many times (SMB1, SMB3, SMW, SM64, SMRPG, Paper Mario, and who knows how many times in between) to be normal. Am I the only one who feels that Peach is deliberately letting herself be kidnapped? -- DragonAtma


 * That's what is hinted but it isn't true. The plot calls for a Kidnapped Princess.  So the Princess gets kidnapped. Angry Sun 03:44, 29 May 2007 (UTC)


 * "Damsel in distress" plot device. It's that simple...   Luigifan (talk) 21:08, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Name
In Japan, he's always been called Koopa. Though, he's called Bowser outside Japan, Koopa is his family name while Bowser is his given name, according to the Nintendo corporations outside Japan. --PJ Pete

Personally, I've always called him King Koopa. I thought that was his original name.(Cappuccino Joe 06:28, 29 April 2007 (UTC))

Nintendo fixed all name confusions by naming him King Bowser Koopa. ~ A Wikipedian.


 * In the original SMB manual he is called Bowser, King of the Koopa. In SMB3's manual his children all have the surname Koopa. However, I cannot recall one instance outside of the awful cartoon series where he is called "Bowser Koopa". He is just Bowser. There are so many little inconsistencies like this in the Mario series that we have no choice but to accept Nintendo's most recent stance - and that is he's called Bowser... not Bowser Koopa. (Fryguy64 23:50, 27 June 2007 (UTC))


 * I prefer "Bowser"... it distinguishes him from his underlings.  Luigifan (talk) 21:09, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Koopa Kingdom
It is not confirmed if there is such thing as a Koopa Kingdom. Captain Underpants King 19:28, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Isn't there reference to it in Super Mario RPG, and possibly the Super Mario Bros. instruction manual? I'm not sure though. Makron1n 19:35, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

It's referenced in Yoshi's Island, and is implied to be the location of the final area of the game.


 * In Super Mario RPG, it's known as the "Koopa Troop". 71.195.35.110 06:32, 28 January 2007 (UTC)


 * It's heavily implied that Super Mario Bros. 3's "Dark Land" is the Koopa Kingdom.  Luigifan (talk) 21:12, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Species
What is Bowser?

I read in the original SMB manual that he was the leader of the "Turtle Tribe," so since he leads a group of turtles called the Koopa, and he has his own turtle shell, it seems reasonable to describe him as a turtle with dragon-like qualities (spitting fire). Cigraphix 21:17, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I always thought he was a mutated spiny. - Davros27


 * Spinies are turtles with spikes on their shells too. He's not a mutated anything. He's just a giant turtle covered in spikes. (Fryguy64 13:17, 3 July 2007 (UTC))

He's a Koopa, albeit an enormous Koopa. (User:Einsteinewton 5 November 2007) —Preceding comment was added at 02:11, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I refer to Bowser's species as "Royal Koopa".  Luigifan (talk) 21:15, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Main Image
It seems as if a bot has eliminated the article's main picture. This calls for a new one. Which one should we use? I'm guessing a good shot of Bowser in Super Mario Galaxy would be best. --<font color="#808080">Is this fact...? 11:37, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I added a new one but I think it could be better sourced. --<font color="#808080">Is this fact...? 10:39, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

SMG Bowser
In Super Mario Galaxy, you fight Bowser in a galaxy that you can reach from The Fountain. And when you attack his burning tail he spins away. But did anyone notice how his spikes retract? It's pretty strange a thing to happen if you ask me, but I won't put this info in the article unless someone else wants to. So respond if you want.SxeFluff (talk) 21:27, 2 January 2008 (UTC)]] 15:27, 2 January 2008

Giga Bowser - Final Boss in Galaxy?
"Giga Bowser does appear outside of the Smash Bros. series as the final boss in Galaxy"

^^Thats in the article, but its not true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.238.177.230 (talk) 05:02, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Baby Bowser in Yoshi's Island DS
On both this page and Bowser Jr.'s page, it says Baby Bowser in Yoshi's Island DS is based off Bowser Jr.'s model. However, I think the Baby Bowser in YIDS looked pretty much exactly like Baby Bowser in the original YI, and neither were particularly similar to Bowser Jr. (and certainly not as similar as Partners In Time Baby Bowser - PiT probably takes place some time after the two Yoshi's Islands, anyway, as all the babies save perhaps Peach seem a little older).


 * Compare and contrast, my friend: Left: Baby Bowser in the original Yoshi's Island; Right: Baby Bowser in Yoshi's Island DS - NES Boy 19:40, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Other thzn the new one being a little brighter, they do look very similar. TJ Spyke 21:37, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

And eyebrow color, thing on the cheek, and the body having lines (stripes maybe?) and umm..something i can't put my finger on.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Suppakid (talk • contribs) 22:49, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Magic?
In the instruction manual to Super Mario Bros. Deluxe, it states that "The Koopa King used his dark magic to transform the Mushroom People into bricks and blocks." While this could mean that the Magikoopas did it, I think that it means that Bowser himself has magical abilities (although not nearly as strong as that of the Magikoopas, especially Kamek or Kammy, Cackletta, or Bowletta.) He has been seen doing some odd things in various games, like his teleportation in Super Mario 64, so I think Bowser does have magic powers; they're just secondary to his brute strength. What do you guys think? Luigifan (talk) 21:06, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Bowser, according to the Super Mario Bros. instruction booklet, is very skilled in dark magic, although this attribute is very rarely (if ever) showcased in later games. This role seems to have been taken by Kammy Koopa. I think this is notable to put into the article, but maybe just a sentance or two. m190049 (talk) 18:37, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

A citation?
It is said that the mother of these kids are Princess Peach.

Where does this come from? I added the "Citation Needed" tag; I wonder who added this...? Just seems like a rumor. walkingonthesun  Say something to me  00:18, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not true. Bowser Jr. thought that Peach was his mother (although Bowser later told him she wasn't), no canon source has ever said who the mother of the 7 Koopalings are.  TJ   Spyke   01:34, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Of course she isn't the mother. It's only Bowser making up things. Also, the kids would look different. Fintan29 (talk) 19:42, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Undead Bowser
Does the Dry Bones-like version of Bowser seen in New Super Mario Bros. have an official name? And if so, what is the source for that name? 138.192.30.189 22:16, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * He doesn't have a name that I'm aware of. He's been referred to as 'Skeletal Bowser' in the New Super Mario Bros. article, but that's really just for descriptive purposes. He's still Bowser, even if he's undead...Makron1n 23:56, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Most reasonable name I have heard for him so far is Dry Bowser. No official source, so we'll just have to wait till the U.S. copy of Mario Kart Wii comes out. hope that clears things up a little. Mcnichoj (talk) 05:20, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Snapshots
Please consider adding this gallery as a list of relevant photos about Bowser RyanTMulligan (talk) 16:26, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Appearances
I have edited the Appearances section, removing a lot of text as it veered off into spoilers and strategy guide material. If you think I've removed something vital, please restore it but bear in mind that this article is about Bowser, not the Mario games, and we need to stay focused on him and not how to beat him in a game. Ray and jub (talk) 11:14, 21 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I thought I'd just note that while I don't necessarily disagree with your edits, the section appears quite thin now when compared to other sections of the article, slightly ruining its consistancy. Ace of Jokers (talk) 08:42, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed. The Appearances list isn't complete, so hopefully future updates to that will flesh it out. Plus, I'm hoping to put some more info about Bowser in some point, and how he's portrayed in the games etc. I think that part of the article needs to be pretty large, but it must contain the right information. Thanks for the feedback! Ray and jub (talk) 09:47, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Category suggestions

 * Fictional sportspeople
 * Comments? - A Link to the Past (talk) 07:19, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Image suggestions

 * An image from Mario Galaxy, either to replace the New SMB image or to go into the article.
 * An image of "Dry Bowser".
 * An image of "Paper Bowser".
 * An image of Bowser and his children (namely the one from SMW's ending).
 * An image of Baby Bowser. - A Link to the Past (talk) 09:16, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Recent Signtings
Is this a joke? Should it be removed?

Cpmills (talk) 00:54, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Koopaling's First Appearance

 * It wasn't super mario World, their first appearance was in Super Mario Bros. 3. They each were a boss for the first 7 worlds and had their own gun ships. In SMB 3 mario simply defeated them, in Super Mario World Mario killed them all. They havn't had a living role since then, I doubt they could survive being drowned molten magma like their poppa can. 76.112.152.25 (talk) 20:34, 29 August 2008 (UTC)Gametaku


 * Uh... they have appeared outside of those two games. Two I can think of from the top of my head are Yoshi's Safari and Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga -- so they haven't been killed off. It would be very unlikely for ANY Mario character to be killed off... Ace of Jokers (talk) 09:04, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

The character on the right side of the "Koopa Kids" image is Baby Bowser, Bowser Jr. doesn't wear a plain bandanna. --Grandy02 (talk) 09:56, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

You're right, I recognize the artwork from Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time. That's why I solved the proplem. The only difference between Bowser jr. and Baby Bowser is the bandana anyway.

--Mr Alex (talk) 02:30, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Two appearances not mentioned here
Wouldn't it be worth noting that Bowser appeared in Luigi's Mansion at the end of the game, and in the original Sim City as the monster disaster? <font color="red" face="Comic Sans MS">PCHS-NJROTC <font color="black" face="Comic Sans MS">(Messages) 03:36, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Koopa/kappa
Maybe you could include a reference to the mythical Japanese "kappa" who are turtle-creatures, if these are indeed the inspiration for the video games. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.247.166.103 (talk) 18:26, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * We would need a source stating that Kappa's were the inspiration first or at the very least a reliable source mentioning this possibility before we can add anything otherwise it would be Original Research . --67.68.152.88 (talk) 06:09, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I've read that it was confirmed in Prima's official Super Mario Galaxy guide that Bowser/Koopa is based on Kappa. Does anyone have this guide and can confirm this? --Grandy02 (talk) 13:37, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that "fact" from the Prima guide is not reliable, because the guides of Prima have made several mistakes (e.g. they called Peach and Daisy cousins, Toad and Toadette siblings, and called Mario Party 5 the debut game of the Star Spirits from Paper Mario). It was officially stated by Miyamoto that the name Kuppa (Koopa) comes from the Korean dish of the same name (source), no word about kappa. --Grandy02 (talk) 18:07, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

"Morton"
So how do we tell Morton Sr. isn't actually Grandpa Koopa or something? -- Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 14:22, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I came here just to see if Morton was mentioned as his name or not. I didn't see it anywhere, but I guess I can comment here. If his son's name is Morton Jr. then his name has to be Morton. If a name skips a generation, the Jr. Sr. parts of the name never come into play. DJKingpin (talk) 03:21, 13 April 2009 (UTC)


 * He's named after Morton Downey Jr, so obviously his dad's just a big music fan, didn't actually name him "my name junior".

Frank Welker ?
Why does everyone keep saying Bowser is voiced by Frank Welker ? --4.229.33.62

From what I noticed on IMDB (although I might be in the wrong here) he was the voice of Bowser in New Super Mario Bros. and in Mario Party 5.

Also it says that someone else (albeit Uncredited) was the voice of the character in SSB Brawl. It was also on IMDB and if you click on full cast and crew, scroll to the bottom of the main cast list then scroll a little more, if you see the voice actor next to Bowser's name (hint, he's voiced Ed the Hyena from the Lion King), I'd like to know if it is an actual confirmation. Philipnova798 (talk) 19:59, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Bowser's VAs?
While, I believe that Scott Burns has still been voicing Bowser since 2002 (I'm pretty sure that I saw his name in the credits of Mario Strikers Charged, could someone verify this for me?; my disc isn't working; I'm not sure about Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games, either) with Eric Newsome pretty much taking over (almost) every role in 2007 (minus Galaxy, where Bowser was voiced by Kenneth W. James), I did see the mention of one "Kenny James" in the credits for Super Mario Strikers (which was released in 2005). Is that the same person as Bowser's voice in Galaxy?

Also, there might be proof that Eric Newsome is again Bowser in Super Smash Bros. Brawl This is (apparently) the English credits for the Subspace Emissary. Of course, YouTube links aren't verifiable references, nor is this link a good one (the video was blurry and the cameraman wouldn't stay still). One of the voices on the VA list (that I could make out) was "Eric Newsome". Ring any bells? I'll have to verify the last part when I finally beat Brawl. ChromeWulf ZX (talk) 23:28, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

From what I read on IMDB, the voice for Boswer for Brawl was (correct me if I'm incorrect) an uncredited Jim Cummings (the guy who does the current voice of Winnie the Pooh). Philipnova798 (talk) 20:05, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

He's still not necessarily PURE evil
I'll agree he only seems to care about Peach and his children, but I'm sure there's a legitimate reason for it all. For starters, Bowser was raised by Magikoopas as a baby, who followed his every order. He only knows how to get things from order, and then from force. That's how he was raised. He didn't really have any actual parents. That explains why he's constantly attacking the kingdom. That, and the fact that Mario is always in his way. I really don't think he's aware of how much his constant attacks hurt the one he loves (Peach).

Also the fact that he cares about ANYONE, even if it IS just Peach and his children, that proves that he could still potentially have some good in him, especially judging from the way Peach treated him in Super Paper Mario. I mean, she called him a "big sweetie", showed concern for both Luigi AND Bowser, and even offered to stay with him as he was holding up the ceiling with O'Chunks. All this proves that she probably sees at least some good in him, which I bet she can, being pure of heart.

Although, Bowser did try to take over the universe in Galaxy, that could still be looked at differently. All his numerous attempts to take over the Mushroom Kingdom had failed, so he wanted to try something bigger and different. Besides, Bowser has rather varied between good and evil in the games (even if his good side is seen mostly in the RPGs).

I think it's Nintendo's intention for Bowser to be a villain with a god-like complex, but also a soft spot for Peach. It's obvious he has SOME good in him, he just doesn't know how to use it, most likely because of how he was raised. It may also be because he was born that way, but even if that were the case, some villains that were born evil, eventually changed for the better.

Come on, the Mario series is NOT meant to be taken as seriously as you're taking it. And I think about 99% of all Mario fans will agree, both with that, and with my point of view on Bowser's personality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.89.217.37 (talk) 00:14, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * (Note: I just read this and even though this is over four months old, I felt I should answer this) Bowser is evil, cruel, nasty and selfish, but he definiately has some (if small) amount of good in him. When he's around Peach, he shows that in some way. Well, everyone has their own opinions or point of views on characters or other matters. Either way, I find your point of view on Bowser interesting. Also I don't take Mario series seriously as you might believe. 23:52, 17 August 2009


 * Well I think he was willing to hurt her in Super Mario 64 as he stuck her in a window and trapped her there and I don't think he would imprison someone he loved, no matter how evil he is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.46.117.40 (talk) 20:37, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Super Mario Galaxy 2?
In the article it says that Bowser is confirmed to appear in SMG2. Now unless some new info came out on the game that I missed, this is incorrect. The only thing that contains Bowser in the trailer is the part where Mario's kicking a snowball around a gigantic ice sculpture of Bowser and that doesn't prove that Bowser will appear (Yoshi had a gigantic wooden sculpture in the image of his head in the original SMG and he didn't appear in the game). So unless we have some info on that could we keep it more speculative? --24.46.117.40 (talk) 21:35, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, he's not confirmed, but it's likely he'll appear. His airships will appear, for example. And I think Miyatamo said something about Bowser capturing Peach by luring her with cake(Although he said it in a joking manner). Plus, if Galaxy 2 is supposed to be sequel. However your right. The article should say something like "Bowser has not yet been confirmed for SMG2, but an ice sculptor of him has been seen as well as his airship fleet. It is unknown if this means he will appear in person, as Miyatamo has not yet stated so." 98.117.158.220 (talk) 06:17, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The cake thing was about New Super Mario Bros Wii. I don't know what says he will appear, so I have no comment. <sub style="color:#00008B;">Blake (Talk·Edits) 03:25, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Bowser Jr.
Who on Earth decided that Bowser Jr. was Bowser's 'worker', rather than son, in spite of his name, the fact that he calls Bowser 'papa', and a million other blatant indicators? Inexplicable... Makron1n 19:20, 11 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I called a man 'papa' once. ONCE.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.139.1.68 (talk) 21:00, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Article name
The name "King Bowser" is almost never used. It is always just Bowser or King Koopa. Has the name "King Bowser" ever been used in a first-party Mario game? If it has, I sure don't remember. Even if it has, Wikipedia's naming conventions say that articles must use the most common names, and "Bowser" is by far the most common name for the character. "Bowser (Nintendo)" would be a much more logical name for the article. Phediuk 02:23, 5 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Super Mario RPG called him King Bowser. Angry Sun 04:01, 5 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Super Mario RPG used lots of very unusually translated names. And that's one game out of however many Bowser has appeared in? "Bowser (Nintendo)" does make a lot more sense. (Fryguy64 13:16, 3 July 2007 (UTC))


 * When you throw him in Mario 64, Mario's line is "so long King Bowser". -- Gordon Ecker 08:51, 13 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I just hope all the links are corrected again. I changed a whole lot of them from Bowser (Nintendo) to King Bowser... >_> Hardcore gamer 48 04:25, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I have a suggestion. What about his first and last names together, "Bowser Koopa," as the article title? --DanMat6288 (talk) 02:58, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * He is Bowser. King of the Koopas.  Like Arthur Pendragon is King of the Britains.  You don't call him "King Britain" You call him "King Arthur".129.139.1.68 (talk) 21:10, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Godzilla
Some may not be familiar with this but i've already added it ahem... i've added a godzilla issues section about the 'copyright issues' i am taking complaints and comments on it know 71.208.51.60 21:20, 3 October 2007 (UTC)


 * This is purely WP:OR, and therefore doesn't belong on wikipedia, so I've removed it. Gscshoyru 21:24, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Why? This should be somewhere and this is the most possible place and most reliable and plus its almost all the way true it dosent seem to not be reliable —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.208.51.60 (talk) 21:26, 3 October 2007 (UTC)


 * You have not sourced it -- see WP:V and WP:RS. This is original research. Wikipedia should only have sourced, verifiable content. Wikipedia is about verifiability, not truth. And what do you mean "most possible place and most reliable?" Gscshoyru 21:29, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

(after edit conflict)
 * "Almost all the way true"? I'm not really sure what that means...  Anyway, please read WP:RS and WP:OR.  If you can find a notable third party source (read WP:RS!!) that makes this claim, then re-add it. --Jaysweet 21:30, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

for petey sake look wikipedia isent supposed to be perfect... NOTHING IS and if it is you guys are maniacs almost all the way true means its almost true in boring fomrm and i meant wikipedia is the most reliable source once you think about it its preety much realiable enough plus i've just noted bowser was replacing oh say 'GODZILLA' in the SNES sim city —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.208.51.60 (talk) 00:43, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Let me explain, sir. Here on the wiki, you have to "cite" things. That means that you have to give proof. So, go ahead! Show us the proof you have that there really were copyright issues involving Godzilla! Oh, and give links to it! 96.28.108.27 (talk) 23:57, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, like when people on game forums scream PICZ NAO OR DIDN'T HAPPENZ! when you claim to have found an outrageous glitch or whatever. The reason is that having visuals to support something is usually called proof. That is what makes something reliable, proof to back it up. As for the copyright issues, it is possible, but very doubtful. Godzilla and Bowser both originated in Japan and I have heard very few major copyright infringements of within the region. The biggest case I can think of was with that one anime movie that was about a lion cub growing up and Lion King and they were pretty identical. That is well known and can be cited from many sources, and I suppose it probably has its own section on those two pages for that reason. Mcnichoj (talk) 00:42, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Just to put this out there...no need to reply but...the poster of this might of said "Godzilla" but meant "Gamera" instead.(. (talk) 16:25, 21 April 2010 (UTC))