Talk:Box Hill, Surrey

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Public Image Limited. Flowers of Romance "I've got binoculars. On top of boxhill"

why is box hill named box hill? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.60.85.4 (talk • contribs) 09:23, August 24, 2006 (UTC)


 * Box is common there. kthx. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.70.93.66 (talk • contribs) 21:46, September 10, 2006 (UTC)

Date of Upside Down Burial?
The date on this photo says that the major was buried on 11th July, not June 17th as stated in the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tomhannen (talk • contribs) 10:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC).


 * According to Timbs in English Eccentrics and Eccentricities or here, published in 1866, he was buried on 10 June 1800, after dying on the 6th. But in a long account of the story in a local paper in 1963, W. H. Chouler had it as 11 June – however he called that a Saturday, which it wasn’t. Major Peter Labelliere: Strange history of man buried upside down atop Box Hill


 * Incidentally, these two references have a bunch more of the tale. Ranmore (talk) 22:20, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

split
VILLAGE AND HILL SEPARATE 86.209.220.126 20:25, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Absolutely, bar that we don't have any content on the village. –EdC 21:35, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Bus routes
Do we need to know every bus that comes by Box Hill and have a picture? Is it not enough just to mention it is served by local bus routes and leave it at that? I appreciate that there are bus enthusiasts who like these things mentioned but IMHO articles shouldn't become hobby spaces. --John Gibbard (talk) 23:12, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree that the specific numbers are probably not necessary. I do have a scenic picture of two buses passing at the visitor centre, which mainly shows the landscape of area surrounding the path from the visitor centre to the viewpoint. Would it be an idea to upload this? -- Arriva436 (talk) 16:07, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I would not object if the picture shows context in terms of the location and visitor centre in cropped format that fits within the article :).--John Gibbard (talk) 16:49, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I have just added it. It is this: Image:Box Hill bus and bus stop.JPG It shows a bus passing the visitor centre, hopefully this will then be a picture of the buses and the most heavily feature of Box Hill! If you think it is unfit, then feel free to revert it! -- Arriva436 (talk) 16:01, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've changed the name of the image onto commons so corrected the above link. Arriva436talk/contribs 18:09, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:19, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Box Hill, Surrey → ? — There is also the village that is named after the hill, unless info could be provided on the village in the current article. They are both in the area. Simply south (talk) 21:59, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.


 * Leave it The village is mentioned, & the hill is far more famous anyway. Johnbod (talk) 23:01, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Leave it. I agree with John. What else could we call the article anyway? "Box Hill (Hill)"! Arriva436talk/contribs</b> 11:06, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified
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 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/friendsofstandrewsbh/history_part_1.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110628230635/http://www.surreycc.gov.uk/sccwebsite/sccwspublications.nsf/WebLookupFileResourcesByUNID/docidF9D4ED4E860D1F9F8025729600568D66?openDocument to http://www.surreycc.gov.uk/sccwebsite/sccwspublications.nsf/WebLookupFileResourcesByUNID/docidF9D4ED4E860D1F9F8025729600568D66?openDocument
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Peter Labelliere picture
Can someone upload a copy of the well-known engraving of Labilliere/Labelliere by Henry Kingsbury? (out of copyright - don't pay!) Ranmore (talk) 22:24, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Village
Villages such as this typically have their own article on Wikipedia, it's a bit confusing that this one only merits a mention in the Geography section here. I reckon a split is warranted. What about the title though...Box Hill, Surrey (village)? <strong style="color:#555555">Pontificalibus 10:57, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Age of the Stepping Stones
A conversation away from Wikipedia (including a request for sources), has prompted me to post the following: Local folklore holds that Stepping Stones have not been present at the foot of the hill for very long (in historical terms) and were in fact first installed in the 1930s. This extract from The Times in 1932, would appear to confirm this conjecture:
 * "Now, thanks to the efforts of various bodies and persons (ramblers owe thanks to the Dorking Chamber of Commerce and Sir Lawrence Chubb) and the consent of the landowners, the ford has been crossed by a line of 13 concrete blocks placed as stepping-stones, and the route was informally opened in time for Bank Holiday use."

Helpfully there is a map attached to the same article, which very clearly shows the position of the new stones and this is the same location as today. There is no mention of an earlier set of stones.

There are numerous sources which confirm that the '1932 stones' were removed during WW2, that their reinstatement was funded by James Chuter Ede (Home Secretary) and that the crossing was reopened by Clement Attlee (Prime Minister) in 1946. See (among other sources).

Stepping Stones across the River Mole are recorded in Volume I of Brayley and Britton’s ‘’A Topographical History of Surrey’’ first published in 1841 (search for ‘Burford Lodge Stepping Stones’ in Google Books). The extract below is from the 1850 reprint (the context of the quote is a discussion about the swallow holes in the River Mole):
 * "There is another, but smaller Swallow, on the opposite side, directly under the palings of Burford Lodge, and just beyond the stepping stones by which the river may here crossed when water is low."

(I have been unable to find any further reference to the ‘1841 stones’.) The extract implies that the stones were near to the then boundary fence of the Burford Lodge grounds (which is where the current stones are now), however it is not possible to state with absolute certainty that the ‘1841 stones’ and the ‘1932 stones’ were built in the same place.

Going back further in time, I have not been able to find any other references to stepping stones in the River Mole. The contemporary reports of Peter Labilliere’s burial at the top of Box Hill (1800) include an account of a group of local ruffians demolishing a wooden bridge during the ceremony, marooning the mourners on the wrong side of the river. In these sources, there is no mention of the stepping stones (which would presumably have enabled at least some of the attendees to cross the river, if they had been present).

Putting everything together (and this is pure conjecture), it would appear that the ’1841 stones’ had not been in place for very long (a few decades at most) before Brayley and Britton described them and that they were removed a considerable time before the ’1932 stones’ were installed.

Mertbiol (talk) 09:22, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Grave of "Quick" An English Thoroughbred
I have been looking for several years for information about the grave of "Quick", which is close to Brockham Lime Works. Local legend says that Quick was a greyhound (not a racehorse) belonging to a Mr Barnholdt (or Barnholt), who was the landowner at the time. Unfortunately I haven't been able to locate any further information about either Quick or his owner. Does anyone know more and, if so, can you point me towards a citable source please? Mertbiol (talk) 19:24, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Split 2020
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;">
 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

No consensus to move. Mertbiol (talk) 08:11, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Proposal
The majority of this article is about the hill and surrounding influences. The information about the village, which is wholly separate is buried within this. Perhaps this should be split into Box Hill (hill) and Box Hill (village), Surrey or something similar? Difficultly north (talk) Simply south alt. 14:00, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Discussion
Leave it (for now). I must respectfully disagree with your statement that "the village... is wholly separate [from the hill]". The village is very clearly on the top of the hill and indeed the summit is at the end of one of the residential streets (Clump Avenue). Since the village is so young and the majority consists of mobile homes (rather than permanent dwellings), there is relatively little to say about it, which is why there is not much about it in this article. If you were to break this out, you would be creating a stub, which would be unlikely to be expanded for the foreseeable future. (In my opinion there are too many such stubs on Wikipedia.) There is also the shared history of the hill and the village - most the village dates from the break up of the estates that owned the hill during the interwar period and it was this process (stimulated by Lloyd George's 1909 People's budget - see the history section) that in turn prompted the National Trust to begin acquiring some (but not all) of the land on the hill. (I should emphasise that the hill is more than the Country Park owned by the National Trust - and although most visitors do not realise this, I think it is important for a Wikipedia article to acknowledge this.) So my advice would be to leave it as it is until there is sufficient material on the village for a split to be warranted and then we can think again. Mertbiol (talk) 19:00, 20 October 2020 (UTC)