Talk:Box wine

January 2015 refactor (+intl, -marketing)
Hi contributors - I've read through the talk page here and refactored the article to produce a more international focus and remove marketing-speak as those two things were resulting in the article being disjointed to the point of being uninformative. One major change is the section "Pros and cons" (originally spawned from a sales-based vandalism of the article some time ago) is now "attributes" to describe the package itself rather than why you should buy it instead of bottles. Additionally the flow of "history" has been improved somewhat going from initial 1960s invention through rise in premium sales originating in 2000s rather than being randomly ordered facts. I think it's worth discussing removing the "controversy" section as it is not well referenced and doesn't add anything to the article as it's more of a marketing editorial. aerotheque (talk) 12:30, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

environmentally friend?
I did find two things in the article that most likely aren't true.
 * environmentally friendly: how is box wine more environmentally friendly than recyclable glass bottles?
 * established a steady market across Europe: I don't think that's true. While this is pretty subjective from my side, I would like to see a citation that verifies this.

--80.109.147.45 (talk) 07:49, 19 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi there - when it comes to disposable use (i.e. you throw it away after consumption of contents) plastic and cardboard are generally considered more environmentally sustainable because as a material they both produce less pollution and energy than glass during both the creation and recycling processes. You can find a variety of reputable sources of information, and here a quick one from a food product company that cites their sources: aerotheque (talk) 12:30, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Australia Perspective
This article is too Australia-focused. The prices are in Australian Dollars. The slang (Goon) is Australian. The experiences of the author reflect an Australian point of view. And lastly the edit page says this page is part of wiki project Australia. Australia is a cool country and all but this page should reflect an international point of view, prices in US dollars, and any specific references to Australia should be in an Australian Box Wine subcategory on the same page. --Jon in California —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.127.73.224 (talk) 02:42, 20 January 2007 (UTC).


 * Whilst I can appreciate that the prices should be in US currency, that is only because that it is globally recognised. As for the article itself being too "Australia-Focused", that is ridiculous.  For everyone else in the world, this is just "box wine" but "goon" or "cask wine" is iconic to Australia, especially Australian suburbia and teenagers.  Whilst the rest of the world may not understand this, it is part of the Australian way of life (not necessarily drinking it, but making jokes about other people drinking it certainly is) and is therefore part of our cultural heritage, this is evidenced by the fact that it is in the Wikipedia Australia project.  The fact that the Australian term "Cask Wine" redirects to the US centric "Box Wine" is culturally insensitive, as it is an Australian invention, and that is how it is referred to by the originators. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.214.124.126 (talk) 09:22, 11 March 2007 (UTC).

I advocate an international POV, a US POV is just as undesirable as an Aussie POV. There is no reason for this article to be in Project Australia. It was invented in Australia but I see it all over the place here in California. Should the WINE article be part of project Italy or France on this same logic? No Way!! Anyone else disagree except the guy above? --Jon in California.
 * "It was invented in Australia but I see it all over the place here in California." - The same goes for Hugh Jackman, but as yet, nobody has complained about him being a part of Wiki Project Australia. MrAngy (talk) 11:05, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't think the article is biased towards an Australian POV. Only under the history section is it biased towards an Australian POV, and that is only because it was invented there and has a particular importance in Australian culture. This section requires to be written in such a way. All other sections are unbiased in terms of POV, except maybe the parts that give prices in AU$. However, US and GB comparisons have been given as well. If you know some US prices, why not add them as well Jon? It'll only add to the article. Also, I suggest perhaps a "Goon" page being started, under which the cultural references can be expanded on.Loki at6 06:44, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Bag in a box's linguistic effect
Anybody who thinks Tetra Paks (wine in a box) is good for the environment should think again. According to Gord Perks "Tetra Pak is the Hummmer and Glass is the bicycle".

Is this article's section about "Aboriginal Briefcase", "goon" and "goonbag" genuine or a joke? I have never heard the term 'goon' to mean the things the article states... Has anyone else heard of these terms before? Are they common or at all widespread? MinorEdit July 8, 2005 23:24 (UTC)


 * I dunno, any Aussies or Kiwis who can answer that question? Wnissen 9 July 2005 05:10 (UTC)


 * I haven't personally heard "goonbag" used, but "goon" is most definitely a widely used slang term for cheap, nasty wine (I'm in Sydney, Australia). &mdash;Stormie July 9, 2005 06:52 (UTC)


 * Living Western Australia the terms "goon" and "goonbag" are frequently used by young people (ie: ~16-20 y/o's for whom the generally lower price of cask wine is attractive) and I readily understood them. My guess (although highly hazardous) is that the word comes from 'flagon' - which is a container for carying wine.  "Aboriginal Briefcase" I have never heard before, although I understand context - which appears to be a rasist comment centred around substance abuse within the Australian Aboriginal population. Commander Keane 03:52, 23 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Yep, "goon" and "goonbag" are both used quite often here. Putrid stuff to drink.


 * I'm yet to meet someone from anywhere in Australia who doesn't know the term "goon", not saying they don't exist, but it is very widespread.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.214.124.126 (talk) 09:18, 11 March 2007 (UTC).


 * Both goon & goonbag are very common words throughout my community (Newcastle Uni, NSW, Australia). I would also like to add that for a wine to be classified goon it has to come from a cask (goonbag). There are lots of cheap & nasty bottled wines but IMO its not goon even though it could be the same recipe.202.7.166.171 06:41, 16 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I hear "goon" and "goonbag" all the time, but only explicitly in reference to cask wine. It can be cheap and nasty as all hell, but if it's in a bottle it isn't "goon". —DO&#39;Neil 10:46, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Never heard of "goon" when I lived in Victoria, but everyone in the ACT calls cask wine goon if that's any help. I think it's a Queensland colloquialism that's slowly spreading.  GeorgeBills 16:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The term 'Abo's Handbag' is not used at all and is a vandalism. the term Goon is used very commonly in the ACT by students, I also did my undergrad at UQ, where goon is a dominant drink, 'goon drinking' and 'goon of fortune' are very common pastimes.


 * "Goon" has been used in Western Australia since the 1970's, at least, and has become a term for any wine, nowadays though still primarily cheap wine. I grew up in Perth and often drank it in my late teens/early twenties (I'm 46). In the last 20 years, it has improved remarkably and is now considered as good as bottled wine in many people's opinions. Why is a citation needed to prove that a bladder resting in iced water would cool the contents quicker?! I thought that was a given!


 * goon of fortune being a reference to Wheel of Fortune, where goon bags are pegged to a rotating clothesline and spun. 150.203.230.27 07:17, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Apparently the terms 'goon' does come from flagon. perhaps this should be mentioned here. Perhaps trying reading about it on www.urbandictionary.com.. also, "Abo's Handbag" despite being highly offensive(!!) is something i have heard before. I agree with the person before as well, who said that goon can only be called goon when it is in a 'goonbag' or cask. not a bottle. again, i highly suggest a new page under 'goon' be opened, or perhaps this goon section expanded extensively. It needs to be explained well because i think people from outside Australia have trouble understanding it.Loki at6 06:49, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Type of English
The English used here doesn't seem to be encyclopaedic. "It is truly a biblical sight"(!) one man squirting wine into another's mouth?

removal of: Bag in a box's linguistic effect
OK I've deleted all the following:

Bag in a box's linguistic effect The bag in a box method of wine packaging has, in Australia, led to the addition of "Aboriginal Briefcase" and "Goonbag" to the national vernacular. "Goonbag" is simple derivation arising from the supposition that only 'goons' drink them, a derogatory term. The "Aboriginal Briefcase" is a somewhat more sinister title, implying that people of Aboriginal descent are often drunkards. Goonbag has led to the branding of cheap cask wine as 'Goon' in Australia, and many punch recipies include the term 'Goon'.

Reason is... The only term I believe to be in genuine common use is "goon", and that is already listed in Australian words so does not need to be repeated here. This is not really the best place for goon to be listed anyway ("goon" means cheap wine, yet the myriad of other slang terms for cheap or substandard wine are not listed here.) I do not believe the other terms are in common enough usage to warrant their listing here. MinorEdit 22:51, July 11, 2005 (UTC) - goon does not mean cheap wine, it means cheap CASK wine, the term used a lot in western australia, particularly in the 15 - 20 demographic.

What makes a goonbag a goonbag?
I thoroughly enjoy a nice cold goonbag in the evening, i have a question though, would you consider a prestiege 2L winecask or a cask filled with fortified wine to be classified under the term goonbag? or does it exclusively refer to el cheapo wines? fruity lexia anyone? 139.168.90.83 07:26, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Anything in a box is fair game to be called goon in my experience. A cask of port, definitely so. Fruity Dyslexia? Even more so!! &mdash;Stormie 08:16, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

If it's in a cask, it's goon. If it's expensive, then the person is only fooling themselves into thinking they're classy. It's not. But hey, it's goon!Loki at6 06:52, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Preservatives
I have heard that goon has higher amounts of preservatives to normal wine, meaning it is less healthy for you. Does anyone know if this is true? Stuart mcmillen 05:17, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Generally "goon" has a higher sugar level, meaning that it is at greater risk of microbiological spoilage. Therefore more preservatives are added, such as potassium metabisulphite or sorbic acid, to prevent this spoilage. Whether people class these chemicals as "unhealthy" for you is a matter of contention.  ◄  §ĉҺɑʀκs  ►  08:45, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * There is little to no evidence that preservatives (sulfites, and the closely related sulphur dioxide) increase hangovers. Preservatives like sulfites score high on food allergen lists, and perhaps as such ended up somehow being attributed to hangovers. Seemingly organic-type wine makers still tend to claim this perhaps to better sell their "no sulfites added" labeled wines. I am going to remove the part of the article that states this since it has no citation and I can't find solid support for the concept that preservatives cause or increase hangovers. No supporting citation in 7 years... aerotheque (talk) 02:50, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Does the wine touch air or does it not?
In this article, one section states that the wine never touches air and that prevents oxidation. The next section says that the bag is gas-porous which results in a definite shelf life.

This is a blatant contradiction. Either air touches the wine, or it does not. If the bag is gas-porous as the second section says, then the wine touches air all the time and the first statement is false. Reswobslc 18:21, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

The bag is more porous than a sealed bottle, much less so than an open bottle. Thus, it has a shelf life, but you can take a couple of weeks to go through a cask without it going off, unlike a bottle which must be drunk within a day or so of opening.

What is that Prisma Pak thing?
I am unable to find information for that on Google 81.39.137.205 20:39, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

It appears to be called Tetra Prisma

Photo
Why is was the wine poured into a sherry glass? And why was it filled all the way to the top of the glass? I think we need a new photo JayKeaton 00:27, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * In my experience, amongst drinkers of box wine, a glass filled all the way to the top is desirable because, well, it's got more booze in it. You probably don't want to pour it correctly in order to savour the nose of the wine anyway. :-)


 * But yes, I can certainly provide a GFDL photo of a wine cask and (wine) glass of wine, if you like! --Stormie 01:36, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * That would be brilliant. Cask wine is just drink just as much worthy of respect as bottled wine, you will find lots of quotes about it being just as good as bottled wine and even better in a lot of cases (no pun intended?). The higher quality wine, a cask can cost more per litre than cheap bottles of wine, but it can be worth it. This article demonstrates the reputation cask wine has of being cheap, but it doesn't mention that it can be just as good or even better than many bottled wines. But yeah, a decent picture would be brilliant ^_^ JayKeaton 07:28, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Took a couple last night, will pick the best and upload it asap. Got a Yalumba Columbard-Chardonnay 2 litre cask as my model. --Stormie 00:25, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry guys, I took the photo and just used the best glass I could find as I usually drink the stuff from a 10 ounce beer glass. I'll get a nice looking wine glass from Target and redo the photo. I might dress it up a bit surrounded with some prawns on plates, some salad, olives, etc. --MichaelGG (talk) 09:48, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Is this article about the wine or about the container?
The first paragraph is written as though the article were all about the cheap wine that just happens to come in casks, not about the casks themselves. I think that this article is meant to be primarily about the container, and should only discuss the low-quality contents as a side note (along with the nicknames).

But that will require moving the page because, in "box wine", "wine" is the noun. Personally, I'd like to see it moved to Wine cask, as it seems to me that "cask" is the correct word and "box" some lazy expression. Something like
 * A wine cask (or wine box) is a bladder, usually made of aluminium PET film or other plastics, containing wine and protected by a box, usually made of corrugated cardboard.

But if the word "cask" is completely unknown outside Australia then I suppose we can move it to Wine box instead.

As luck would have it, I'm taking some goon to a party tonight. I'll ask the Americans there if they would understand me if I were to say "cask". Anyone care to provide a British perspective? Nick 14:59, 25 January 2008 (UTC)


 * As neither British nor American, I've never neard the term "cask" refer to a box wine, or Bag-In-Box container. I believe the latter term is the international "technical" term for the container that you may be looking for. To me, a cask would rather be a (small?/smallish?) wooden barrel, and a bladder must be suspected to contain urine rather than wine! Tomas e (talk) 13:10, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * If Bag-in-Box really is in such broad usage as a technical term, we should just merge this whole page into that one (as wine is just one of the liquids that can be stored like that). Besides, | this page says that the modern, tapped cask evolved from a type without the tap on the bladder, which makes it even more like a BiB.


 * PS You're right about the word "cask", it originally meant a small barrel but the word was appropriated and the primary meaning changed. But you're wrong about "bladder", it can hold any fluid e.g. air bladders in balls. (You're probably right that more childish readers will see it as urine, but that's no reason to avoid the better word.) Nick 19:19, 26 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose merge or rename - While this article certainly needs some improvement, the term "Box wine" is probably the most common and internationally recognized term. The concept of Box wine is also separate and distinct from "Bag in Box" container. AgneCheese/Wine 08:24, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * If you feel you have something to contribute on the type of wines that happen to be sold in casks, go right ahead. But do note that the current title refers to the wine, not the container. Therefore I'll be working on adding a section on those containers to the Bag-In-Box page. Nick 16:26, 27 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nick81 (talk • contribs)
 * I agree that Box Wine (or Cask Wine)does not have to be cheap and nasty. In Australia it is quite common to see good quality wines such as Chardonnays and Cabernet Sauvignons in large 8 or 10 litre casks, being served from the bar at social events such as Rotary Christmas do's, weddings, conventions etc where they provide a very sensible alternative to mounds of bottles and corks around the place. Also smaller 2 litre casks of quite passable wines are popular, being very space friendly in the fridge and easier to transport than bottles. I think the distinction should be made in the article, which at the moment tends to stress the cheap and nasty! However the article is primarily about the container. --MichaelGG (talk) 01:45, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and drink Tagging
This article talk page was automatically added with WikiProject Food and drink banner as it falls under Category:Food or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging here. Maximum and careful attention was done to avoid any wrongly tagging any categories, but mistakes may happen... If you have concerns, please inform on the project talk page -- TinucherianBot (talk) 05:59, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Opened shelf life
So, apparently box wine keeps much longer than bottled wine once it's been opened. Great, this is the reason I want to try box wine. Does anyone have a reliable source for this info so we can put it in the article? All I can find are blogs and forums. Thanks, FreplySpang 23:48, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Goon of Fortune
You honestly telling me no-one has added this iconic drinking game to this article!?!?! Shame on you Wikipedia, shame Pinothyj (talk) 14:55, 26 March 2009 (UTC)…
 * Nothing is iconic if it doesn't have reliable sources (i.e. not blogs or word of mouth) attesting to its encyclopedic integrity. AgneCheese/Wine 15:30, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

This article blows monkey balls. First of all it's all written like we live in Australia...newsflash...WE DON'T. The article also appears to have been written by a fourth grader. It's stupid. The whole thing should be re-written IN STANDARD AMERICAN ENGLISH in an intelligent and informative context. As of right now I find it more exciting to read a nutrition label on the back of a twinkie than to waste any more time peering at this awful article.71.239.11.33 (talk) 06:56, 6 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Can I say that by wikipedia rules the article does NOT need to be written in STANDARD AMERICAN ENGLISH and that it can be written in US UK or International english (which is Aus english). And also why are you so worked up about it, the article clearly goes through all the points needed. 121.223.128.48 (talk) 04:40, 12 February 2010 (UTC)


 * This section does not have authoritative reliable sources and the content is not really encyclopedic. It is a "how to'' do a drinking game.  It does not belong.  Pkgx (talk) 03:16, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Controversy
The article states [noting citation needed] that boxed wine does not have to indicate the amount of (drinks? alcohol?) in the box. This is not true in Australia. Alcohol by volume and number of "standard drinks" (as legally defined, precisely for purposes of comparison) must be stated on the box. Reference is the Food Standards Code of Australia and New Zealand, Part 2.7 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.175.254.32 (talk) 11:56, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Invention and history
This article should mention the work of Australian winemaker David Wynn, who was instrumental to the success of box wine: see https://therealreview.com/2015/02/19/the-wine-cask-turns-50 and https://trove.nla.gov.au/people/1473291?c=people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samdutton (talk • contribs) 16:03, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia Issues
I removed some regional bias in hopes of making it more international. I removed the unreliable and arguably not noteworthy "controversy" section. Permission to remove the watch status.Dreapster (talk) 17:32, 9 August 2019 (UTC)