Talk:Bozo the Clown/Archive 1

Dispute
I dispute that this did not occur(meaning, I say it DID occur): It happened between 1967 and 1970, on the Los Angeles version of Bozo, I personally saw it: '''"That's a Bozo no-no." which elicited the response from the kid: "Cram it, clownie!" This story, although humorous, never occurred."'''

although it was not an outspoken child in the audience it was an audience participation sequence where the child was trying towin a prize, his task was to hit a spoon and cause it to fly into a glass tumbler a few inches away... time ran out and the kid said "Crap!, bozo said "That's a Bozo no-no.", and the kid said "Aw, cram it, clownie!" (not just cram it but Aw cram it). this was on live tv ("making it onto the air" is a big sign that this is erroneous...the show was live, so what else would happen but that it makes it onto the air???) in los angeles 1967-1969 some time... I saw it, myself however, no way to prove the story and I don't want to be called a vandal/hoaxer again... but I suggest we remove the line:

'''Many stories have arisen about misbehavior on the show making it onto the air, including one in which Bozo was attempting to manage the behavior of an outspoken child in the audience by making the comment: "That's a Bozo no-no." which elicited the response from the kid: "Cram it, clownie!" This story, although humorous, never occurred.'''

since while I can't prove it happened, saying it DIDN'T happen is a step too far in my opinion

Also, does anyone have any reason I shouldn't post the 'Bozo origin story?', I don't want another 'George Voorhees and Terry Teene/Clownzo never existed' debate, I'd hate to have my actions cause another clown bio to disappear from the wikipedia. I take clowning seriously, and have adopted the clown constellation as my pet project. comments? if a couple of you think it's right, take that line out. I'm staying away from making controversial edits without consensus, even if I know I'm right. If you were in on the last clown debacle, you know what I mean.Pedant 05:30, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * I agree that the "did not occur" line is too strong, and have removed it. - DavidWBrooks 17:07, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)

"fictional"
To the anons who keep putting reference to Bozo being "fictional" in this article - could you explain yourself? How is this flesh-and-blood being any more fictional than any other flesh-and-blood clown (as compared to those depicted only in fictional works, such as Krusty the Klown on the Simpsons). - DavidWBrooks 21:43, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Argh! I give up on the "fictional" fight against this silent anonymous opponent ... it could extend to Ronald McDonald, too, and life is too short for that. - DavidWBrooks 18:49, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Other countries' Bozos
I was thinking. US isn't the only country that had their Bozos. I'm pretty sure at least a few other countries had their versions, just like the Americans did. I can speak for Brazil, which is where I live. We've had our share of Bozos in the past, so yes, it's not exclusive of the US. Maybe something about that could be added here?--Kaonashi 05:43, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Alright. I've been meaning to do this for a very long time, but I ended up procrastinating it. A lot. Anyway, I just added some info on the Brazilian Bozos to the article. There's a new "international" section there now, so new additions will be welcome. What I added is pretty much all I could find out right now. I also took my time to write a small bit about the relation with Ronald McDonald, since the article lacked that. That's it. Since I'm really not into the subject, feel free to modify whatever sounds wrong there. Thank you.--Kaonashi 04:16, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

"Bozo no-no" Urban Legend
The alleged incident could not have occurred in Los Angeles between 1967 and 1970. L.A.'s last locally-produced "Bozo the Clown" show (which starred Vance Colvig, Jr. who was the son of the original "Bozo the Clown," Pinto Colvig) ended in 1964 on KTLA. In 1965, Larry Harmon bought out his business partners and became the sole owner of the "Bozo the Clown" licensing rights. In 1966, he syndicated 130 of WHDH (now WCVB) Boston's "Bozo's Big Top" starring Frank Avruch (on tape, not live) to cities that weren't producing their own Bozo shows. KCOP was the Los Angeles outlet. Avruch denies the incident occurred on his show.


 * Urban legends can be true, as this one may well be. It's the iconic status as an oft-told tale, with many uncertainties and embellishments, that makes it an urban legend. - DavidWBrooks 22:08, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * I watched it, had to be 1967 or the next 2 years, I moved to LA in 67. I personally actually saw it. Not a friend of a friend, I personally actually saw it. I only assume that it was live, as I doubt that they would air the tape.  I can't reconcile the conflict, and I wouldn't object to anything but "it did not happen", I'd be ok with "Avruch denies the incident occurred on his show." or similar claims, but "it did not happen" doesn't seem acceptable to me as there were at least tens of thousands of witnesses. User:Pedant


 * "Tens of thousands of witnesses" in L.A.? Where'd you come up with that estimate?  With all due respect, people in almost every market have claimed to have witnessed the alleged incident on their local "Bozo" show.

"Bozo" in the 1992 United States Presidential Election
I think this is interesting, though someone might need to phrase things in a way to be appropriate for a Wikipedia article. According to my memory, and niagarafallsreporter.com,

"My dog Millie knows more about foreign affairs than these two bozos," Bush the Elder said of Clinton and Al Gore, his running mate and vice presidential candidate.

''Clinton responded that Bozo (a popular TV clown of some decades ago) "makes people laugh, and Bush makes people cry." ''

Politics aside, why this is interesting and appropriate for Bozo the Clown is that it shows the change in the meaning of the word "Bozo" in US English. To Bush the Elder (b. 1924), a "bozo" was, as is claimed at dictionary.com, dunce or a fool. But to Clinton (b. 1946) and younger people, Bozo is the clown, and not just a slang term for a low-intelligence bumpkin.

This all said, I'd like to see it put in the main Bozo article, but I don't feel skilled enough in Wiki to put it there. What do you think?

Bozo as cult
The content of this section seems improbable. There are Bozo people who live in Niger. --Big_Iron 21:06, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

The Chicago Bozo
Since the Bozo from Chicago is arguably the most popular Bozo, could we get a picture of either Bob Bell or Joey D'Auria?

"Bozo Prize"
I recall that a rather worthless consolation prize was given to the losers of prize contests, and that subsequently the phrase "Bozo prize" came to mean a rather useless consolation prize. Does anyone else recall this practice ? Does anyone else use this phrase ? StuRat 22:47, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Does anybody remember the lender's bagels? Didn't the kids in the audience have little ones on necklaces? And wasn't the Bozo prize a package of bagels? (In NY, at least?)

16th anniversary show
Here's the low down on the 16th anniversary.

It was a regular live noontime show, aired Monday, September 12, 1977. (They also did another one the following year, for the seventeenth anniversary.)

Ray Rayner returned as Oliver O. Oliver, and Ned Locke returned as Ringmaster Ned. Rayner talked a little about it on his own morning show that day, reminding viewers to tune in and adding that "Oliver O. Oliver will be there." He didn't mention that he (Rayner) played Oliver. (But viewers old enough to remember Oliver probably knew that.)

That week's Chicago edition of TV Guide had a WGN-TV ad for the show. (The Tribune probably did, too.) The ad does not specifically mention Locke and Rayner appearing, but they definitely did. (Marshall Brodien as Wizzo brought them back using magic, and he's mentioned in a couple of interviews that during that live bit, Rayner became visible to the audience a little earlier than he should have...but I don't specifically remember that. I believe Locke also presided over one of the audience games that day.) The TV Guide ad does include a mid-1960s era photo of Bob Bell as Bozo (using older photos of cast members in print ads or on-air bumpers was fairly common). It was a black and white image, so it didn't matter that he would have been wearing a red suit, although his makeup was noticeably different too.

This sometimes gets confused with the 17th anniversary show (aired live Monday, September 11, 1978). (I don't personally remember them doing any other "anniversary" shows in the 1970s, but remember that these were not really promoted as "specials," they just aired in the show's usual timeslot.) Even Producer Allen Hall has mistakenly remembered Locke and Rayner having appeared on the 17th anniversary show, when it was actually the 16th. The 17th anniversary show did not feature any appearances by former regulars, but talk show host Phil Donahue and then-acting Chicago Mayor Michael Bilandic appeared. One other oddity is that Cooky appeared on-camera during the Garfield Goose segment, so someone else must have been operating the puppets that day.

The bad news is that apparently, WGN did not save the tape of the 9/12/77 show. (Not a big surprise...the 17th anniversary 9/11/78 show was apparently only preserved because someone taped it on a home Betamax that day. One might think with Locke and Rayner appearing that day, that tape might have been considered significant enough to be archived, but evidently not.)

The famous pie fight clip (in which the clowns cover Frazier Thomas with pies) is not from the 17th anniversary show, by the way. It apparently isn't from the 16th anniversary show either, since Oliver O. Oliver isn't in it. In the WGN special "Bozo: The Man Behind The Make-Up," that clip was shown and incorrectly dentified as being from the 17th anniversary show. The last few times clips have appeared, usually they just say it's from 1978. But who knows?

Frank Avruch
Yeah, he was seen in the syndicated shows, and I'm sure his fans loved him...but it seems someone is awfully sensitive about trying to make a case for Avruch as the "official" Bozo. Both here and at Amazon.com, it is starting to look like a game of "My Bozo can beat up your Bozo," and it's silly. Bob Bell was still the greatest Bozo...all due respect to Mr. Avruch.

Opening Line
I think it goes without saying that Bozo the Clown is also known as Bozo. That's kind of like saying Sonic the Hedgehog is also known as Sonic. Just seems a bit redundant. -AfroRyan

Roy Brown's appearances via tape during the 1993-1994 season
The current article states:

 Brown's presence on the show remained as previously aired segments as Cooky and Cuddly Dudley were incorporated until 1994

I was a pretty regular viewer that year, and while they did replay a lot of old Cuddley Dudley segments that season, I know of only three times the Cooky character actually appeared (and only two of those were on camera). (Although he was shown in the opening titles every day, and his name was always listed as part of the cast in the closing credits that season...which was not the case when he had been absent for much of the 1991-1992 season.) One was in the Christmas episode, where they replayed the "Santa Claus Rap" skit from the previous season (1992-1993) as part of a segment called "Cooky On Christmas." There was one other time a Cooky clip was shown that season, in a segment called "Cooky On Cannons," again a replay of a segment from the 1992-1993 season, in which Bozo is trying to trick Cooky into being shot out of a cannon. There was one other skit that I recall from that season which had to do with telephones, and audio recordings of answering machine messages of the various characters were heard. This also may have been reused from an earlier season. I didn't see the show every day, but I watched it pretty regularly and I recorded a whole bunch of shows that year...old footage of Cuddley Dudley was used pretty frequently, but the above are the only examples I saw of Cooky appearing that year, even in old footage.

Fair use rationale for Image:Bozo40th.JPG
Image:Bozo40th.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Dates for Willard Scott playing "Bozo the Clown"
According to WRC-TV's official website history here, Scott played Bozo the Clown "1959 to 1964". Accordingly, I have (again) corrected the date "1962" to 1964. For those who believe that WRC-TV is incorrect, what is your source?  JGHowes talk  -  04:34, 24 June 2007 (UTC)


 * WRC-TV's website is incorrect. It's been well documented that Scott debuted as Ronald McDonald in 1963, after WRC-TV's Bozo show was cancelled.  Scott himself chronicals in his book "America is my Neighborhood" how his debut as Ronald evolved from Bozo after his Bozo show, which was sponsored by a local McDonald's franchise, was cancelled.  In fact, the following historical Washington, D.C. kids' TV website lists not only the year but the month Willard Scott's Bozo began and ended here and here.  IMDB (The Internet Movie Database) also states that WRC-TV's Bozo show ended in 1962 here.  McDonald's official website states that Scott debuted as Ronald in 1963 here as does "The Joy Boys" website here.  The case study "A McDonald’s Family Challenges the Status Quo" also states that WRC-TV's Bozo show was cancelled in 1962 here.  This information has also long-appeared on Wikipedia's "Ronald McDonald" article.  75.3.83.105 08:13, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

G.I. Joe on The Bozo Show
I doubt it's noteworthy enough for the article, so I'm mainly asking just out of personal interest--is there anyone out there who remembers some of the details of when WGN showed Claster/Sunbow G.I. Joe episodes as part of the cartoon section on Bozo, such as the specific years and whether the episodes were edited or not? I remember some episodes from the first (1985) season of G.I. Joe were shown, I'm not sure if they ever showed anything from the 2nd season or earlier miniseries or not. Someone I asked recalled G.I. Joe was shown on Bozo in 1986, but I haven't been able to verify that. The only other thing I really remember is that they showed G.I. Joe on Bozo in short segments. I can't remember how long the show was at that time, so I'm unsure whether they were able to fit in a whole edited episode on in short segments, or whether there was just one segment each day, each week, or what. (Just as an aside, as a kid I was always a little confused why The Bozo Show usually had puppets, slapstick, and old-timey cartoons but would show something as contemporary as G.I. Joe. Of course it later dawned on me as an adult that a lot of the Grand Prize Game prizes were from Hasbro!)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.21.189.16 (talk) 04:09, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

G.I. Joe answer
To the best of my recollection, WGN started featuring "The Transformers" on The Bozo Show during the 1984-1985 season, and they added "G.I. Joe" the following season (1985-1986). Both continued to be featured through the end of the 1986-1987 season (i.e. as long as the show remained in a 90-minute format). One of the cast members would introduce these segments on a rotating basis, i.e. Frazier Thomas would do it one day (until he died at the end of the 1984-1985 season), Bozo would do it one day, Cooky would do it one day, and so forth. When the show was in reruns during the summer months (while it was being produced in a 90-minute format), the cartoons would be added later, so a rerun of an earlier episode would have different cartoons. Again, as I recall: the intro (before the "Transformers" or "G.I. Joe" segment) was specific to the segment they were about to show, but the outro was generic, so in the summer reruns, frequently one cast member would do the intro and a different cast member would do the outro, just so the intros would match the cartoon that followed. Also as I recall, WGN would just run a segment of a half-hour "Transformers" or "G.I. Joe" show and serialized them from day to day. There is a blooper clip WGN used in some of their Bozo anniversary specials where the three-man "Bozo Show band" is playing "The Cassion Song" (which is what they used to introduce "G.I. Joe") and someone held up the wrong cue card, prompting Joey D'Auria (as Bozo) to say, "Guess what? Robin put the wrong sign up in front, so I don't know what the devil I'm saying!" When "The Transformers" aired on Bozo, they'd just play the audio of the "Transformers" theme song while one of the cast members read the intro and outro. I can only begin to imagine how Frazier Thomas might have felt standing up there and introducing these cartoons. Both "Transformers" and "G.I. Joe" were dropped after the 1986-1987 season, when The Bozo Show was streamlined big-time...the 90-minute show had kind of served as sort of a continuation of Ray Rayner And His Friends, featuring many of the same cartoons and segments that had been on Ray's show. (i.e. if Ray had still been doing his show on WGN in 1984, "The Transformers" probably would have been part of it.) In the fall of 1987, they went back to a one-hour timeslot, producing the show pretty much in "real time" with the cartoons rolled in during the actual taping; in the studio, Professor Andy would play a tune on the Electronophone while the cartoon was on, and on at least one occasion I heard the audio of this "bleeding through" in the on-air tape of the show. Mitran was hired to take the place of the three-man "Bozo Show band," and that's when they dumped Pat Hurley too. Wizzo had been on once a week (on Wednesdays) but during the 1987-1988 season, he started appearing Tuesdays and Thursdays instead (though this was not etched in stone). When they cut back to one hour in 1987, they dropped most of the cartoons other than the Warner Bros. cartoons (though they added other cartoons later, including Hanna-Barbera cartoons, "Mighty Mouse," 1960-1961 made-for-TV "Popeye" cartoons and eventually cartoons from The Bullwinkle Show. Probably more info than you need, but I hope this answers the question.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by TooterTurtle (talk • contribs) 00:41, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Bozo40th.JPG
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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:53, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Are you Kidding!?
"Although the generic name Bozo is reckoned "of uncertain origin" by the Random House Unabridged Dictionary[1] and given an earliest use of c. 1915–20, when it was a common term referring to hobo or tramp clowns, the equation of "Bozo" and "dunce" may be credited to Anselm of Canterbury, who laid out many of his treatises in the familiar form of a dialogue, between A, who was Anselm, and B, who was Boso, who never got it right. Bozo has been named in several US presidential elections as a write-in candidate when people felt they were choosing between the lesser of 2 evils. Constance B. Bouchard, "The Bosonids or Rising to Power in the Late Carolingian Age" French Historical Studies 15"

Way to go wikipedophiles... While this quote may be accurate, is this really a good thing to put in the opening paragraph of an "encyclopedia" entry? Again, are you kidding? Do you not think that perhaps this might be written in a style of English less technical, less Dickensian, and maybe in a more informative manner?

This, in addition to the glaring fact that this really has no place in a well structured opening paragraph.

This whole article is an horrific mess. There's no rationale to the structure whatsoever. It seems Bozo isn't the only clown around here. Too many cooks. A million monkeys and a million keyboards can't even come up with a decent clown article -- never mind Shakespeare. Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.42.129.187 (talk) 23:35, 9 January 2008 (UTC)!-- Template:UnsignedIP -->

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Etymology article?
Why was that section moved out? It is unusual move, creating a dictionary-like entry (with some unnecessary (IMHO) trivia) and causing weird problems on the dab page. (John User:Jwy talk) 17:09, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Bozo the Clown was not necessarily the first use of the word "bozo". Anthony Appleyard (talk) 20:28, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Much better, the hatlink to the disambiguation page - DavidWBrooks (talk) 21:13, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Bozo in Chicago
Brown's presence on the show remained as previously aired segments with Cuddly Dudley (and a few with Cooky) were incorporated until 1994, when he and Marshall Brodien retired from television and the show was moved to Sunday mornings and rechristened The Bozo Super Sunday Show'' on September 11. Brown, Brodien and Immel were replaced by new characters.......'' I have a question. Who is this guy Brown that all of a sudden gets mentioned without any previous hint of who he is? Waassupwitdat? Does anyone know?--Buster7 (talk) 02:30, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Merge proposal
New stub article at Bozo: The World's Most Famous Clown seems to overlap with this article. PamD (talk) 07:47, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

What's My Line? appearance
Don't tell me it's too trivial for the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.127.183.89 (talk) 03:21, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Bozo the Clown Cultural Aspect?
It seems to be the moral lessons and other cultural impacts of the Bozo the Clown show are important aspect to include in an article about "Bozo the Clown" I wonder if anyone has an expert run down on this perspective that could be included in this article? The Bozo No No value and other values expressed on the show, shaped or at least supported the values espoused by my parents. Striveon (talk) 18:05, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100214203038/http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/feature?section=resources/inside_station/station_info&id=5769141 to http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/feature?section=resources/inside_station/station_info&id=5769141

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