Talk:Bradwall/GA3

GA Review 3
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: Meetthefeebles (talk · contribs) 15:01, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

I'll review. Please bear with me as it takes me a small while to read through and my comments tend to be rather long...

Some initial comments

I'll review against the WP:WIAGA criteria. There is strong, consensus guidance provided also at WP:UKCITIES which, although not strictly part of the GA criteria, is an excellent reference point as regards style, structure and breadth of coverage. I also note that there have been several previous reviews, so I plan to make some more in-depth comments, rather than simply reviewing quickly.

Disambiguation links
 * None found

Linkrot
 * Links seem to be working okay.

Image check
 * File:Bradwall parish.svg is a self-made image by the nominator. Checking WP:OR; "Original images created by a Wikipedian are not considered original research, so long as they do not illustrate or introduce unpublished ideas or arguments". Image is therefore probably okay – suggest moving into the infobox as it is rather sitting on its own...
 * Venables file is okay; seems the creator died in 1895. Suggest adding this to the file to prevent others from trying to delete.
 * The Bradwall old OS map is okay but incorrectly licensed. Suggest using instead.
 * The Foden Family image I cannot check as there is no link to the source provided and I have tried a google search and cannot find the source. This will have to be included and checked.

History section
 * There are a few rather short subsections here which could, and probably should, be merged. Start with the etymology then move chronologically.
 * The opening sentence is a bit 'journalistic'. Suggest "There is evidence of Roman occupation at the formative Bradwall" or similar.
 * " Beatwall (1326), Broadwall (1415), Bardwell (1438), and, Bradwell (1724)." No reference provided and this is needed.
 * "Bradwall is not mentioned in the Domesday Book, completed in 1086 for William I of England, at which time the area was thought to be waste moors between Brereton and Warmingham, that formed part of the southern boundary of the Barony of Kinderton, the historic name of Middlewich." Who thought this? Again, a reliable source is required here.
 * "Bradwall of Bradwall (13-14th century) --" Per WP:DASH, use "–" instead of "--" This section also needs a reference.
 * "The Venables of Bradwall arms consist of: Azure two bars Argent, in chief two plates, and crest: A wyvern, with wings endorsed Argent, pierced with an arrow headed Or and feathered Argent, devouring a child proper, sometimes depicted standing on a weir." Again, his needs a reference.
 * Berington of Moresbarrow and Bradwall (14-16th century). This section is entirely unreferenced. As is the next section.
 * The latter part of the 'Latham' section is unreferenced.
 * throughout this section there is detailed, technical terminology relating to Coats of Arms. Strongly consider rewriting these and adding blue-links as non-experts (such as me!) will struggle with sentences such as "The Oldfield arms: Or on a bend Gules three cross patée fitchée Or. Crest: A demi-wivern with wings expanded Argent, crined Or, issuant from a ducal coronet of the second". Honestly, I have no idea what that sentence means.
 * What happened to the reformatory schools? Is it still operational or, as I suspect, it is closed? If so, when, why and by whom?
 * The George Burgess section is interesting but lacks context and is arguable trivia. Strongly suggest merging this section with the reformatory section, noting perhaps that "two of the most notable detainees were Peter Barrett and..."
 * Having re-read twice now, I wonder if the family information should be a separate article. There is a fair bit of information recorded and they might well be notable enough to warrant a split, because that section rather dominates here.

Geography
 * South and East should not be capitalised.
 * "Bradwall appears on the Ordnance Survey OS Landranger Map (1:50 000) Stoke-on-Trent & Macclesfield (Sheet 118),[41] and the OS Explorer Map (1:25 000) Wilmslow, Macclesfield & Congleton (Sheet 268).[42]" Per WP:Summary style, this is probably superfluous information.
 * Again, there are a few small sections here. I don't think a separate section entitled 'waterways' is necessary; simply merge with the section instead.
 * Suggest removing "The rivers are illustrated on the 1577 map of Cheshire by cartographer Christopher Saxton (illustrated)" as you have included the illustration.
 * "In the 16th century, there is mention of a water-powered corn mill there.[48]" This is trivia and suggest removal.
 * The rest of the Hamlet section should be merged rather than standing alone.
 * The climate date is fine, but also suggest providing a text summation of the data. This will assist those who cannot view the images and provide better context.
 * WP:UKCITIES suggests using both Template:Compass-table and Template:Climate chart (the latter rather than the table you have provided).

Geology
 * Try to stick to the summary style; there is no need to explain what mudstone is when you correctly provide a blue-link, for example. Suggest removing.
 * The soil subsection is very technical and very in-depth; perhaps too much so.

Demographics
 * "Since the average distance travelled to work is 18.13 km (11.3 miles), then a proportion will work outside the parish" Possible WP:OR? I would remove the latter part of the sentence as the former doesn't necessarily mean (or even infer) the latter. Simply "the average resident travels 18.13km (11.3 miles) to work, perhaps?
 * One sentence sub-sections are strongly discouraged. Simply merge the life expectancy data into the larger, first paragraph.
 * Consider adding, if available, religious disposition of the population. Also consider adding ethnicity data if available (per WP:UKCITIES.

Economy
 * The information here is historical and should be considered as part of that section. This section should refer to the economy of the parish today. What is the economy today, is it still agricultural? Is business thriving or declining along with the population? Are more people travelling to work in new industries than before?

Culture and Community
 * Tell us more about the village hall; where is it located, when did it open, when was it built etc? Is it an important part of village life?
 * Re-write the second sentence, or at least delete "For example".
 * All three short paragraphs could be merged into a single paragraph (though you may need a second if you add info on the village hall itself).
 * The 'sport' section can be merged into one paragraph also, as they presently are simply two single sentences with an unnecessary break between them.

Landmarks
 * "Includes a two-story building with three windows, made with brown brickwork and tile roof. Inside are chamfered oak beams, chimney corner (inglenook) and oak supporting beams (bressumer). The coach house is also oak framed with brown brick and roof tiles." This needs referencing (though I suspec it comes from the National Heritage list description)
 * Take "Bradford reformatory school is detailed above" out as it is not especially encyclopedic.

Government
 * Who is the present MP for Congleton?

Education
 * You could comment more on these schools. Use the OFSTED reports to provide details on cohort, subjects taught, performance, grading etc. These are WP:Reliable sources and will help flesh this section out nicely.

Services
 * This section is very much optional and, if you intend to keep it, I would strongly recommend converting into continuous prose.

References
 * What makes refs.23 & 24 reliable? I've had a look through the site and the author claims to be an expert, but does that make this source reliable? I'm not sure.
 * Is ref.25 a reliable source?
 * Ref.32 looks like a blog and not a reliable source.
 * Ref.51; is Weather2 a reliable source? I haven't come across it before and genuinely don't know? Is the data not also available from the Met Office?
 * Ref.61 I am fairly sure that GENUKI is not considered a reliable source on wikipedia
 * Typo in ref.67? 'Well' rather than 'will'?
 * Is INUKlocal a reliable source? (at ref.75)
 * Is a facebook page a reliable source? (at ref.82)
 * Ref.96; why the change in ref style? Almost all of your references are full citations until this one which is almost harvard. Try to be consistent.

Overall summary GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria 1. Is it reasonably well written?
 * A. Prose quality:
 * B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

Overall writing style is okay but there are areas which could be improved (highlighted above). There are lists which could be continuous prose and the layout incorporataes rather too many short sections/subsections
 * Comment

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
 * A. References to sources:
 * B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
 * C. No original research:

Large number of sources cited but some of questionable reliability and some statements/sections lacks references. One or two small, potentially contentious issues but no real problems with OR.
 * Comment

3.Is it broad in its coverage?
 * A. Major aspects:
 * B. Focused:

Much improved on previous versions but still some omissions, a rather heavy focus on historical information. Some trivial elements still persist and some sections are very technical and would benefit from a more focused, summary approach.
 * Comment

4.Is it neutral?
 * Fair representation without bias:

No real issues here
 * Comment

5. Is it stable?
 * No edit wars, etc:

No evidence of any edit-warring.
 * Comment

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
 * A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
 * B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

There are some small issues with images highlighted above, but overall these are fine and certainly plentiful.
 * Comment

Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:

Closing comments The article is certainly improving, but I do feel that there remains work to be done before this reaches GA. The structure is rather bitty and the treatment of the parish is very historically orientated. The article should be submitted for review again once the suggestions made above are considered, but I expect that this will take more than one week, so I'm afraid that I am failing this nomination. Please consider WP:UKCITIES and try to read as many GA and FA articles as you can as these will help in terms of structure, style and content. Feel free to raise any queries here or on my talk page and I will help as best I can. Meetthefeebles (talk) 18:48, 28 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for taking the time and effort to be so constructive. To help with the progress, see Talk:Bradwall/GA3/progress --Iantresman (talk) 21:27, 28 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I've spotted the new page; will leave you to complete to the end and then offer comments/suggestions. Message my talkpage when you are ready :) Meetthefeebles (talk) 16:04, 29 August 2012 (UTC)


 * OK, I've been through all the suggestions, and updated my GA Progress page, with comments. More feedback welcome, unless you have too much on. --Iantresman (talk) 15:07, 11 September 2012 (UTC)