Talk:Brady Haran/Archives/2014

EL as linkfarm
As was set up, the listing of videos in a bibliographic type section would (or might) work. But putting them into a subsection of the external links section creates a WP:LINKFARM. Each of the listings is available through his official site, and thus they are now redundant. – S. Rich (talk) 17:51, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * That's what I did at first, but User:MichaelQSchmidt moved it to the external links section. It's much better that way. Also, deleting that list or removing one or more entries (as you secretly did) would be extremely damaging to the overall quality and usefulness of the article. If that's your intent, stop WP:GAMING. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 21:34, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The point is that WP:NOTLINK applies to that list because the single WP:EL has a link to all of his projects. We don't need to mirror all that information here. Accusing people of acting in bad-faith when clearly they're not is a violation of WP:AGF and not WP:CIVIL, you've been repeatedly warned about that behavior, and continued uncivil actions by you may result in penalties. I think it's starting to be clear that you may have an WP:OWN issue with this article, and you are acting very negatively to anyone who has a differing opinion about it. For your sake, you should take heed of WP:NPA, WP:CIVIL and WP:AGF, you probably won't be warned again. —  raeky  t  21:51, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * If I may give the impression of ownership over the article, it is because there has been multiple disruptive edits by users who want to shred the article apart in order to justify its deletion. That's why I accused of WP:GAMING. Now, rightly accusing others of not following WP's main policies does not configure a violation of WP's civility policy. I think I've been respectful enough with other editors and I'm only trying to improve WP. I know I don't have ownership over the article, but deleting the list is so disruptive it can only be categorized as vandalism.
 * "[1] has a link to all of his projects." No, it does not. Even if it did, it wouldn't be a mirror, since "There is nothing wrong with adding one or more useful content-relevant links to an article", with the exception of "excessive lists [that] can dwarf articles and detract from the purpose of Wikipedia", what it certainly does not. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 00:13, 20 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Dear Hugo. Raeky's removal of the list of channels is correct and policy-based. Please express any concerns on talk and do not re-insert.  Thanks.  SPECIFICO  talk  23:57, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I re-inserted, following recommendations on WP:VAN. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 00:22, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Please give a careful and thorough re-reading to the policy concerning vandalism and its definition. I believe that other editors have previously explained to you that edits such as Raeky's are not WP:VAN. Please undo your revert of Raeky's edit.  Thanks.  SPECIFICO  talk  00:34, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * According to WP:VANDTYPES illegitimate blanking and gaming the system are types of vandalism. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 00:59, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Your allegation of vandalism is improper. I had asked you before to strikeout your other unfounded allegation of vandalism, but sadly you continue. This latest comment of yours has been added to the ANI now pending. Shortly I intend to collapse this thread as being off-topic WRT article improvement. – S. Rich (talk) 01:13, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * It's an WP:ANEW, not ANI, and yes, I concur, your misuse of WP:VANDAL, Tagging regulars, bad-faith accusations, and ownership of the article all need addressed. It's becoming quite disruptive. Noone is here to delete the article, the article's AfD was concluded as Keep, WP:N can be demonstrated. — raeky  t  01:17, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification (so many to keep track of)! And I will modify my comment on my "ANI" message. – S. Rich (talk) 01:24, 20 February 2013 (UTC)


 * A content guideline (which is on-point) regarding this matter is available at WP:ELOFFICIAL. – S. Rich (talk) 05:45, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * No, it's far from "on-point". Do you mean that the YouTube links were official websites? Because it is clearly not. Do you mean that the official link covers that information? Because it doesn't and even if it did, "There is nothing wrong with adding one or more useful content-relevant links to an article", with the exception of "excessive lists [that] can dwarf articles and detract from the purpose of Wikipedia", what it certainly does not. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 06:11, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

As for User:Srich32977, I think it is the third time I warn you not to edit my comments. "The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it." No, it has not been closed. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 06:11, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Stop your feckless warnings, Spinelli. The "hat" clearly says the discussion -- about your edit warring (and other disruptive editing) -- is continued on another page. Also, none of your comments were ever edited by me or anyone else. (Finally, you ought to look at putting no-index tags on your subpages. They are about to be listed on WP:MFD.) – S. Rich (talk) 06:24, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I have absolutely no reason to continue a debate about Brady Haran elsewhere. And you were the first to comment after saying "The following discussion has been closed". That doesn't make any sense. Can you please have a discussion about the article, and not about WP:ANEW or about my user page? --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 07:06, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm at a loss for the appropriate response. Is it or  or  or The handwriting on the wall. I thought I had re-started the EL discussion with an appropriate guideline for contributors to consider, but an unneeded and unhelpful comment about my previous other edits was added. Well, maybe all four responses are appropriate. – S. Rich (talk) 07:36, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Please continue discussion on EL section here
You can get to all his channels through the single EL http://www.bradyharan.com/ — raeky  t  14:56, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I would NOT include a huge "list" of youtube channells under the external links section. It is not helpful or encyclopediatic or "standard" operating proceedure. Thank you, --Malerooster (talk) 17:44, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The link to Haran's official site is sufficient to allow user to find his videos. WP does not list the complete bibliography of authors or academics, even when there may exist no single external source for such information.  The inclusion of a long list violates WP policy and, if it purports to be complete, would need continuous maintenance which itself would constitute WP:OR Reading of the comments here, there is clear consensus for omission of the list.  SPECIFICO  talk  17:50, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Unneeded because more than sufficient coverage and linkage is available through his official page. (Now an enterprising editor might add individual video links in the various discrete articles that the videos pertain to. For example, what if Haran and The Professor did a video on Unobtainium? That would be interesting.) Please note that I was the one who moved the listing into a bibliography section IOT save the listing. As it was moved back to the EL section by the article originator and another editor, I will relent in my effort to save the listing.  – S. Rich (talk) 18:29, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Strongly disagree. Deleting it will be extremely harmful to the article's overall quality and usefulness. "There is nothing wrong with adding one or more useful content-relevant links to an article", with the exception of "excessive lists [that] can dwarf articles and detract from the purpose of Wikipedia", what it certainly does not. Srich actually wanted to keep the list, but changed his mind because of some personal revenge against me. I would suggest moving it to the body of the article, which is what I did at first, but User:MichaelQSchmidt moved it to the external links section. Also, more information can be added to each of his channels. It is not simply a link farm, it is a list of his projects, but leaving the list without external links just to avoid some obscure policy wouldn't make much sense. Also, removing the links, but keeping the list would definitely not configure linkfarm, since there would be no more links. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 22:22, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * You seem to be the only person arguing for it's inclusion. — raeky  t  22:24, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Read WP:VOTE, read my arguments and refute them. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 22:26, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I think this is approaching WP:IDHT and WP:TE, everyone here has made solid policy based arguments for not including this list. — raeky  t  22:30, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I have presented new arguments and you are simply ignoring them. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 22:52, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Because they're erroneous, and MANY editors now have presented reasoning why it should be removed. WP:CONSENSUS is clear. The writing is on the wall here... — raeky  t  22:57, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * "You can get to all his channels through the single EL http://www.bradyharan.com/" That is not true. PsyFile and PhilosphyFile are not there. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 22:52, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Clicking "Full list of Brady's channels and websites (with explanations)" which is CLEARLY right at the top of the page and evident to anyone who's read it, leads to a page that lists ALL his channels with descriptions and videos. — raeky  t  22:55, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Awards and nominations
See what I'm saying? Instead of fixing the section title from "Awards and nominations" to simply "Awards", User:Srich32977 removed all "won", then inserted a template saying that now it is unclear which ones he won and which he was just nominated to. All of that without debating first. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 07:23, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Spinelli, do you know which are awards and which are nominations? ("Nominations" alone implies that he did not get the final award.) If so, then just remove the "nominations" from the heading. Debate first? Why?? Fix it and stop personalizing this. I like Haran. I love Haran! I want him to have a great article!!! But when you presume that my edits are creating problems, you only detract from article improvement. – S. Rich (talk) 07:36, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Saying things like: "I want to remove all 'won', but that will make the section ambiguous. Any comments?" Would have been helpful. Before deleting something, or substantially modifying the article, why don't you discuss it before? (actually, I know why) --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 15:31, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * – S. Rich (talk) 16:09, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Why then I was banned for fixing it? --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 22:24, 21 February 2013 (UTC)


 * That's discussion doesn't belong here, per WP:TALK. — raeky  t  22:25, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Do you agree that the issue was fixed or you think it was a disruptive edit warring? --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 22:30, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not going to argue against the administrator's decision in the actions they took on your account, and again this isn't the place for that discussion per WP:TALK, so please take it to your talk page if you wish to discuss it with interested parties. — raeky  t  22:32, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * It's not about the ANEW, it's about the "Awards" section. Do you think the issue was fixed? --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 22:49, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Can I assume yes from your silence? --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 00:28, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * You fixed it here: – S. Rich (talk) 00:33, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Moving "Haran's YouTube Channels"
I suggest moving the "Haran's YouTube Channels" section to the body of the article as previously done by User:MichaelQSchmidt and User:Srich32977 and maybe removing the links so it does not configure WP:LINKFARM. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 22:57, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * All the links need to be removed, they're not adding anything to the article and are against policy. The single EL is more than sufficient. — raeky  t  22:59, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * But what about removing the links, but keeping the list? Also, we could include a brief description of what each channel is about. "they're not adding anything to the article" I think it is pretty obvious that they are. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 23:02, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * A biography of someone here isn't an absolute complete CV of their life, all his channels do not need to be directly referenced in his biography... if he's received coverage for one in reliable sources then the information could be included, but just because he operates a hundred channels doesn't mean they all need to be here listed. It's not entirely impossible a list would be unhelpful in a larger article, but I don't see the need for it in the article at it's current size barely more than a stub. — raeky  t  23:05, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * "but just because he operates a hundred channels doesn't mean they all need to be here listed" Agree, but there are only 12, not a hundred. Compared to the size of the article, a list with 12 entries doesn't create a mess or "dwarfs" the article. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 23:11, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The list is longer than the prose on the article... at least on my fairly normal monitor and graphic settings. — raeky  t  23:15, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Hugo, this has been resolved. There is consensus. The list does not belong on BH's Wikipedia page. If you are still concerned about this, please review all the policy and other reasons why your view has been rejected. The next time BH makes a new [ video correction:] channel your proposed list would be incomplete.  Your view has been rejected. Please move on to your next improvement idea.  Thank you.
 * I'm not talking about listing all his videos, only the channels. And the title doesn't say it's a complete list, but users will try to keep it complete, of course. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 23:25, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Fixing my slip-up above, thanks for catching it. Same facts apply. The issue has been resolved.  SPECIFICO  talk  23:34, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Why not make it like this list: Smosh? --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 23:40, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * That's a 1051 word article compared to the 210 in this one, not a fair comparison. — raeky  t  23:45, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Also WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS — raeky  t  23:46, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * But you won't let anyone add anything to the article (and you have deleted significant amount of it), that's why it still has 210 words. Also, I'm aware of WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. I said "Why not make it like this list: Smosh?" --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 23:57, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Noone is preventing you from adding content that is backed up by reliable sources, and doesn't violate policies. Only thing I deleted was a small paragraph that clearly violated WP:CRYSTAL and the consensus was clear for it's deletion on the talk page. I hope I don't have to remind you of WP:AGF and WP:CIVIL again? — raeky  t  00:03, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * "Noone is preventing you from adding content that is backed up by reliable sources, and doesn't violate policies." Yes you are (Proof) and User:EdJohnston is too: "wait for consensus before making any more edits at Brady Haran" (Proof).
 * "and the consensus was clear for it's deletion on the talk page" which I did not object to (Proof). --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 00:19, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * If you think that is evidence that we're preventing you from "adding content backed up by reliable sources and doesn't violate policy" then there's no help for ya. The AN3 was obviously because you was wp:editwar and the admin's offer to unban you was an attempt to keep you from edit warring in the future because he (probably accurately) deduced you probably will again. — raeky  t  10:31, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Official website in the External links section
"Haran's website, which includes links to his various YouTube channels and videos." I think this sentence is unnecessary. It is obvious that it is his website, since it is the "official website". And saying that it "includes links to his various YouTube channels and videos" is redundant, since the list of his channels is right bellow that. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 23:07, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * And since there is redundancy, i.e., that his website contains a listing of his videos, etc., there is no need to provide an individual listing. The description was added as a step towards removing the listing. – S. Rich (talk) 23:45, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point. And the page does not have links to his channels, this page does. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 23:53, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The second link is redundant since it's quite literally at the very top prominently featured on his main page that anyone reading it or looking for it can find it. — raeky  t  00:05, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Let's keep it! It's a compromise that might/should end this matter. – S. Rich (talk) 00:08, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Compromise?? --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 00:10, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes. The overall consensus is to remove the listing, which would include all links but the official one. You provided a link that has a separate listing. We include what you provided even though there is a certain overlap. You can be and should be happy with it. And then you could, if you desired, post links of Haran's video links on pages that are related to the particular topics. Moreover, you get to post Brady Haran as a link which expands his exposure in the project.  But if you like you can continue in this debate.  – S. Rich (talk) 00:16, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * This is the sixth time I say (yes, I'm counting) that I will not make any more reverts regarding this issue. I'm not satisfied with deleting the list (I think it is vandalism), but I respect consensus. My main complaint was that users were making disruptive edits without debating first. Now that we have debated and consensus was reached, I will not complain. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 00:27, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes for example if you busted your butt and expanded the article from it's current 233 words to about 1165 words (5x expansion) within the next 5 days, you can get it listed on the front page as a WP:DYK. — raeky  t  00:22, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * What?? --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 00:27, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Career
User:Srich32977 has deleted content without debating it first. His summary: "remove 1 per day video because we don't know how long he kept up, has kept up, or will keep up that endeavor (e.g., article will age but will his output continue at the same rate?)". So I will change it to " has made an average of one new video a day in the first 5 years". That will fix the issue.

Also, his changes from "After moving from Australia to the UK, and being employed by the BBC, he began to work with film" to "He then moved to the United Kingdom and was employed by the BBC where he worked with film" made it worse. I suggest "After moving from Australia to the United Kingdom, he was employed by the BBC and began to work with film." --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 00:51, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * You expecting people to double-check changes with you beforehand, whereas you can add stuff without having to discuss it first? Noone is required to discuss changes beforehand. WP:BRD exists for contentious edits or featured articles. But a reasoned WP:ES is all that should be neccessary for a change. If you object, you can take it to the talk page, but noone is required to get changes approved beforehand? — raeky  t  00:55, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * "WP:BRD exists for contentious edits" Exactly.
 * By your response I think you don't have any objections to my suggestion. I will make the edit. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 01:03, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

RS for article
A search on HighBeam Research for "Brady Haran" came up with 67 quality RS articles about or by Haran. There is a lot of material out there with which this article could become a DYK or GA. – S. Rich (talk) 17:20, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * They're not all him, though. ;-) But yea this article can be improved. Not sure theres enough for a GA, but probably definitely enough for DYK. — raeky  t  00:22, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * If these are him, then theres a BUNCH of them written by him, but not really about him so we can't use it to improve the article. — raeky  t  00:24, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * "SCIENCE HONORS ULTRA-POPULAR CHEMISTRY VIDEOS WITH SPORE AWARD." States News Service. States News Service. 2011. HighBeam Research. 22 Feb. 2013 .
 * Usborne, Simon. "How to explain ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING." The Independent (London, England). Independent Print Ltd. 2013. HighBeam Research. 22 Feb. 2013 .
 * "TEN WEBSITES FOR SCIENCE TEACHERS." States News Service. States News Service. 2012. HighBeam Research. 22 Feb. 2013 .
 * O'Driscoll, Cath. "Tables that turn heads: modern interpretations of the traditional periodic table are gaining in popularity and reveal a lot more about the elements than their weight and atomic number.(The elements)." Chemistry and Industry. Ten Alps Publishing. 2010. HighBeam Research. 22 Feb. 2013 .
 * "Bringing chemistry to life.(Event review)." Chemistry and Industry. Ten Alps Publishing. 2011. HighBeam Research. 22 Feb. 2013 .
 * "Former Midlands TV journalist killed.(News)." Birmingham Mail (England). MGN Ltd. 2007. HighBeam Research. 22 Feb. 2013 . (quote "In 2006, Ms Almudevar and fellow BBC video journalist Brady Haran won an award for their co-production of Alexandra Road, a 10-part series following the lives of the residents of a road in Wolverhampton.")
 * "BBC's back to its roots; COMMUNITY: Newsman on familiar ground in local launch.(News)." Birmingham Mail (England). MGN Ltd. 2005. HighBeam Research. 22 Feb. 2013 .
 * Graham Young MAIL TV EDITOR. [Graham Young MAIL TV EDITOR. "BBC's back to its roots COMMUNITY: Newsman on familiar ground in local launch." Birmingham Evening Mail (England). MGN Ltd. 2005. HighBeam Research. 22 Feb. 2013 . "BBC's back to its roots COMMUNITY: Newsman on familiar ground in local launch."] Birmingham Evening Mail (England). MGN Ltd. 2005. HighBeam Research. 22 Feb. 2013 .
 * "YouTube chemistry sensations share formula for success." China Weekly News. NewsRX. 2011. HighBeam Research. 22 Feb. 2013 .
 * Those are the ones that I think MIGHT be usable, the rest are probably not. — raeky  t  00:33, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I provided HighBeam as a starting point for more research, and it looks like you've culled through them. His name and location seem unique enough to verify it's him writing. Not that we would use his articles in this one, but they serve to verify that he did write in Australia. Enterprising contributors can use the other material as they see fit. – S. Rich (talk) 00:36, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Ya... if anyone wants access to one of those articles and doesn't have HighBeam account, I can provide it (via e-mail) and I assume Rich can too. — raeky  t  01:28, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Or use Google. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 07:44, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Not everything on highbeam can be got off the internet for free.. — raeky  t  17:56, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * True, but nothing in WP:V says it must be free. We cite books that are not on the internet, or our local libraries. They might cost us some money to purchase or to drive some distance to find. But we rely on the GF and editorial judgment of editors who post such references to do so accurately. The more important point, I think, is that this article is getting well fleshed out. I'm happy with its' progress and re-classed it from Start to C. Some more work is needed to B-class it or to DYK it. – S. Rich (talk) 18:10, 24 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm well aware of that, I was just saying if someone, who doesn't have access to it, wants it for improving the article, we could give it to them, if we don't have time add the info/reference ourselves. — raeky  t  18:18, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, you had mentioned supplying the HighBeam stuff off-line. (And I was unclear on what you ment after the Spinelli Google comment.) I did not intend to imply that my comment was directed to you as a criticism or debate, Raeky. (To the contrary, I thank you for your work, contributions, and comments.) As I added to the end of my comment, I think a very nice article has been produced. – S. Rich (talk) 18:30, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

WikiProject
Why is this article on WikiProject Chemistry and WikiProject Education? --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 07:43, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * These projects and their members will be interested in what Haran has produced – educational videos on subjects related to chemistry. Listing on the projects themselves won't improve the article, but members of projects look at articles and can bring in their contributions to improve where they can. (The more editors who look at an article, the better. The more page views, the better.) If there are project members who really don't think the article pertains to their realms, they can remove the templates. But I doubt that will happen. – S. Rich (talk) 08:10, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Why then not physics, mathematics, psychology, philosophy, theology, etc? --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 08:23, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Please see my comments on user talk. – S. Rich (talk) 19:17, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Your comments are bigger than the article. I'm interested in debating, not reading a book. Please, be concise. Why then not physics, mathematics, psychology, philosophy, theology, etc? --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 22:25, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * May I remove it? --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 01:18, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Remove what? The 2 projects – why? – S. Rich (talk) 01:23, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Because it has absolutely nothing to do with the article. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 02:29, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Then you don't understand WikiProjects. They are social constructs. Members in these two projects may or may not have an interest in this particular article, but posting the project page gives the article more exposure to those editors interested in chemistry & education. WP:PROJGUIDE – S. Rich (talk) 02:58, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Why then not physics, mathematics, psychology, philosophy, theology, etc? --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 03:14, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * That's FAR to many. Chemistry seems somewhat reasonable since PTOV channel is his first and I think most popular. You can post on those other projects and see if the WANT to add it.. but generally I think that would be too much. Not sure if there is some maximum project rule. — raeky  t  03:43, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Spinelli does not want to add the projects. He has some problem with the addition of the existing projects. In any event, the project banners are collapsed, so they won't pop out to the casual reader of this page. On the other hand, they will be visible on the project page assessment tables and contributors in those projects can seek out and improve this article. Jeez, why has this subject taken up so much space?  – S. Rich (talk) 04:01, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * "PTOV channel is his first and I think most popular" Nope and nope. His first was Nottingham Science and his most popular is Numberphile.
 * "Jeez, why has this subject taken up so much space?" Because it's annoying to see an article about a YouTube film-maker when you're looking for chemistry stuff. This article has absolutely nothing to do with chemistry. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 04:47, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Do you even know what wikiprojects are? No average reader will "find" this page by looking for chemistry articles by having it in that project. All it does is puts it on the radar of a lot more qualified editors to improve it. It's a process that's usually very hidden from most users who are not delving into the guts of wikipedia's inner workings. — raeky  t  04:57, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * "Do you even know what wikiprojects are?" Yes, I do. You're avoiding the main point that this article has absolutely nothing to do with chemistry. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 05:16, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Then take it out of chemistry, but it belongs to the others. — raeky  t  05:23, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Edit Summaries

 * 08:12, 24 February 2013‎ Srich32977: "how do we know he lives in Nottingham?" Besides being said and referenced in the article that Haran moved from Australia to Nottingham, Haran says here he lives 5 minutes walk from City Ground. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 08:48, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * WP:IBX – S. Rich (talk) 14:36, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Please see my comments on user talk. – S. Rich (talk) 19:17, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Please, revert that edit. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 22:28, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Per WP:IBX it's best not to put citations within the infobox, add the information to the article's body and cite it there is the preferred way. — raeky  t  23:02, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

March 6, 2013

 * 22:04, 6 March 2013‎ SPECIFICO: "Delete assertions not supported by the two citations." You don't need to delete, just flag as "citation needed". I provided the source.


 * 22:10, 6 March 2013‎ SPECIFICO: "Conforming article text to the statements made in cited source." Actually, the statements are in the cited sources. I don't know what he is talking about. Anyway, I removed the "later" because it says he uploaded it from the start. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 04:03, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

March 19, 2013 -- Test Tube as RS

 * 03:57, 19 March 2013 SPECIFICO: "Undid revision 545346124 by Hugo Spinelli (talk) Removing unsourced content." The content is sourced. I undid the revision, since SPECIFICO didn't present a valid reason why the content should be deleted, didn't leave any comments on talk page and didn't answer my previous comments. --Hugo Spinelli (talk) 06:47, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Hugo Spinelli: Do not edit war. The self-published test tube citation is not WP:RS as to whether Haran was awarded a fellowship. That statement must be deleted. The second cited source does not discuss "initial plan" with a subsequent change to immediate uploading.  Your text misrepresents what's in the source and constitutes your own unsourced narrative of what happened.  You've cut and pasted my March 6th edit comments above, but you have not stated why you reject them. The next step is for you to discuss your concerns, not to state that you are correct and to edit war.  Content that is not properly sourced may be deleted.  You may state your reasons if you believe that the content is properly sourced.  The purpose of talk is to resolve the disagreement, not merely to amplify it. Please undo your reversion of March 18 removal of the unsourced content, and state why you believe the text to be properly sourced.   SPECIFICO  talk  12:56, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The "Test Tube" citation, while a creation of Haran, actually features numerous other people and is done in collaboration with UoN. Presumably they exercising a degree of editorial control and/or are sufficiently satisfied with what he is producing. With this in mind, dismissing Test Tube as SPS or non-RS is not well founded. It satisfies the 5 SPS criteria for inclusion. – S. Rich (talk) 13:43, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * What does the following statement mean? "He was appointed filmmaker-in-residence for Nottingham Science City in 2007, as part of a fellowship agreed between the BBC and the University of Nottingham." "Fellowship" could mean anything from 'he received an academic honor' to 'BBC continued to pay his salary' -- its meaning is imprecise in a weasel/promotional way.  It adds nothing to the description of Haran's work.  If there is more detailed information or information from any source that describes the relationship, let's look at using that.  The way it's currently used, it is not encyclopedic content in my judgment.  Do you have a view on the "initial plan" text?  Thanks.  SPECIFICO  talk  14:13, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Promotional language removed. Not sure what you're referring to WRT "initial plan", but will look further. – S. Rich (talk) 15:46, 19 March 2013 (UTC) Oh, I see. Next paragraph! I'll look at it later today.15:57, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Having looked, I see that Impact Magazine says "Originally, the idea was to produce a long documentary." In light of this, the language "initial plan" looks acceptable. – S. Rich (talk) 20:52, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * But did he abandon that project and just post the pieces individually, or was the long version completed in which case it's not clear there was a change of plan? Thanks.  SPECIFICO  talk  21:49, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I see the ambiguity. Take a look at the re-write. – S. Rich (talk) 22:47, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

The source says:
 * "Brady had always intended to embark on a journalistic career and studied journalism for a year at university. He was then taken on board by The Adelaide Advertiser. But it was only after moving from Australia to the UK to work for the BBC that Brady was given the opportunity to work with film. “They quite liked things I was doing and thought I should be making films for TV, so I was sent off to be trained as a video journalist. I always had a bend towards doing science stories.” His strong passion for science saw him start a side project called ‘Test Tube’ through which he met Professor Martyn Poliakoff. Originally, the idea was to produce a long documentary. “I was always of the mind that that [the documentary] was not the best way to go. Who would watch a 2-hour long film? So right from the start, I decided to put all my raw footage on Youtube.”

It sounds to me as if he never liked the sponsor's idea of a documentary, so he posted his raw footage. If this is what he means, the current text does not convey that meaning. What do you think? SPECIFICO talk  23:44, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Brady Sequence
There seems to be a back and forth over having a section on the so-called "Brady Sequence", but it fails WP:UNDUE. The section, as most recently formulated, summarizes (incorrectly) the content of a YouTube video where, in part, Matt Parker asks Brady to name two numbers, and uses them as a seed for a Fibonacci sequence, and then demonstrates that the ratio of consecutive terms still approaches the golden ratio, so as to demonstrate that one has the same result for a different seed that of the standard Fibonacci sequence. It's a rhetorical / pedagogical device to refer to this as the "Brady Sequence", not an indication that naming two numbers off the top of his head was a noteworthy achievement in Brady's life. (It wasn't.)

85.69.207.227 (talk) 02:14, 18 December 2014 (UTC)