Talk:Brandywine Highway

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NY 363 is not at all part of the Brandywine Highway. It is, instead, North Shore Drive. The Brandywine Highway predates North Shore Drive by years and, in fact, runs at-grade and ends at US 11 across from the Tompkins St. bridge over the Susquehanna.

Whose idea, again, was it to merge these two articles? dlainhart (talk) 08:04, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * According to Tele Atlas and NAVTEQ, North Shore Drive ends upon merging with 363 and the entire limited-access highway from 434 to I-88 is Brandywine Highway. Please show me a source that backs up your assertions. –  T M F 17:02, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I live here. I've lived here my entire life. I have never once heard North Shore Drive referred to as the Brandywine Highway. You can ask around. The Brandywine Highway was built much earlier than the North Shore Drive expressway. Tele Atlas and NAVTEQ are both extraordinarily prone to minor errors such as these, and you're just trying to rack up points writing articles about roads you've never driven on in towns you've never stopped through while never talking to any local residents at all. dlainhart (talk) 21:10, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "Rack up points"? Really? Ask anyone at WP:USRD how I feel about "points" or statistics. My contempt for their WikiWork metric was one of the reasons I fell out of favor with that project. Look on my user page and see how much I care about parading my contributions around. You'll find all of two items, both relating to quality featured content. I couldn't tell you how many articles I've nominated for good article because I don't care - attaining GA status is not a big deal nor is it a major accomplishment.
 * I edit articles on roads all over New York because no one else is, full stop. If the Southern Tier had a quality, dedicated road editor, I wouldn't need to touch a single article in the region. The same goes for any region in the state - none of which have had a dedicated regional editor for a long time.
 * Returning to a relevant discussion, I didn't create the original article: if you want to blame anyone for claiming NY 363 is part of Brandywine Highway, look at this revision of the article written months before I made a single edit to this page. Sure, I merged NY 363 in, but that was influenced by the content that was already there. I don't really care if 363 is split back out, but this page would likely be redirected to NY 7 as part of said split.
 * Am I going to carry out the split? No, because I'm not the editor with a concern about the article. It's the same reason why no one has touched NY 17C since your generally uncivil post on that article's talk page. –  T M F  (talk) 22:06, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Nonsense like this is why it's so hard to be civil and have patience with the nightmare Wikipedia's become. If NY 363 was split out, it should be split out onto its own page, as it has a history entirely separate from the Brandywine Highway and was built much later, originally serving as NY 17 between the Penn-Can Expressway at I-81/NY 17 Exit 4.
 * That exit was originally dually-signed as I-81 Exit 4 and NY 17 Exit 73, with NY 17 "exiting itself" on Exit 73S onto the brief stretch of NY 7 between the Exit 4 cloverleaf and where the Brandywine Highway exits current NY 363 and continues to US 11/Court St to end at the Tompkins St Bridge as Brandywine Avenue. NY 17 continued south on the newly-built North Shore Drive, now NY 363, which diverts from the Brandywine ROW onto its own new alignment a few feet west, flies over the Binghamton railyard, and interchanges with US 11 before it does all that wrong-way funny business at NY 434, which was then NY 17. NY 434 also formerly split onto Collier St northbound and State St southbound after coming off the Collier St Bridge, which was renamed the State St Bridge around 1980 when the government plaza complex was constructed in the middle of Collier St.
 * All three articles should exist: NY 7, NY 363 (North Shore Drive) and Brandywine Highway. The Brandywine Highway was built from Court St at the eastern edge of Downtown Binghamton north to Chenango Bridge, replacing Chenango St through Port Dickinson and Hillcrest. I-88 was later built on top of the Brandywine to complete it to I-81. The Brandywine Highway, as you can see in that link, runs N-S throughout the image, with I-88 beginning at I-81 north, flying over the Chenango River and then landing on the Brandywine Highway (crushing it, and all of Hillcrest's commercial development on it) at the northern edge of Port Dickinson. The apparent half-diamond] used to be a partial cloverleaf interchange between Chenango St and NY 7. And here is the Brandywine Highway at Robinson St before NY 363 was built. It's still "Robinson and Brandywine". The first intersection to the north is still part of NY 7. NY 363 flies out southbound from the middle before the exit ramps remerge and reach Robinson St.
 * I can back all of this up. All of it. Exhaustively. But if I have to fight Wikipedia egomaniacs writing about roads they've never been on like blind men writing about what a tree looks like, then it's going to be in one big exhaustively-sourced destructive swoop with at least two administrators to back me up. Because if NY 363 can be called the Brandywine Highway, so can Riverside Drive, and I can just say that NY 17H was renamed NY 363. It's pretty hard to be civil to children fingerpainting nonsense all over an Internet encyclopedia. And that stuff on NY 17C's page was exactly that: ignorant nonsense. Just like this entire page.
 * There should be barnstars of shame slapped and locked on the user pages of the users who wrote this crap. And you should hang your head in shame for daring to merge NY 363 into this page based on garbage instead of doing your own full-assed research. You admit in essence that you half-ass articles on Southern Tier roads because there's no one else doing it. You should be ashamed of yourself. You're in for a rude awakening if you think you can do this with research papers in college.
 * You ought to carry out the split yourself. Split the two articles out into stubs and leave them as that. If it makes you feel dirty, put "citation needed"s everywhere you want. I'll carry out the rest. Don't forget: your audience isn't other editors. Your audience is unknown to you. Your audience is largely readers who may not have any interest in contributing or find that the barriers to entry are too high (i.e., they have full-time jobs or are full-time students or are full-time doing things in their lives besides becoming Wikipedia editors). Wikipedia's internal politics are descending into Usenet-level Internet nonsense, and civility has long ceased to exist on the discussion pages of Wikipedia. Unless you consider something like the Cold War "civil".
 * Since you've implicitly declared yourself responsible for "maintaining" the articles concerning Southern Tier roads, it follows that you should make responsible decisions when writing and editing articles concerning Southern Tier roads. Instead, you've made at least one extremely irresponsible page merge and everyone has the right to hold you in contempt for your actions. You owe the Wikipedia project an apology. If you want me to bring forth sources first, I will. dlainhart (talk) 07:35, 15 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Let's not get too heated here. While there are edits of his that I may not personally agree with, TMF has at least taken the time to spruce up several articles for Southern Tier roads, and in general has added a lot of quality content.  I do agree with you, dlainhart, that the page should be split.  I am in fact willing to do the split, and to start paying some more attention to other Southern Tier road pages (though I will admit that it'll take time).  I have some sources to confirm the historical overview you gave, but would you be willing to post some sources on here that I could use?  The aerials will help, but written sources will also be useful.  Also, it looks as if Google has updated their map in Binghamton to reflect that NY 363 is called North Shore Dr. Vmanjr (talk) 02:11, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Lemme just note, that I went ahead and talk to dlainhart off site a few weeks ago and settled everything. Mitch 32 (Wikipedia's worst Reform Luddite.) 04:28, 30 August 2013 (UTC)