Talk:Braveheart

References to use

 * Please add to the list references that can be used for the film article.



What is the point of this section. The film is not a documentary or a history lesson. It is a portrayal of life/a work of fiction. The film is not an academic work.2605:E000:9161:A500:3832:5234:5BA4:7DB6 (talk) 08:14, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070408081844/http://www.cnn.com:80/2007/SHOWBIZ/Movies/03/29/movie.battles/index.html to http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Movies/03/29/movie.battles/index.html
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Languages Spoken
The article says, 'In addition to English, the film's primary language, French, Latin, and Scottish Gaelic are spoken.' Does Gibson speak briefly in Italian? At some point Gibson says something just before or after Rome is mentioned. I assumed he was speaking in Italian, but I do not know. Maybe it was Latin?

My vague memory suggests he was speaking to his present (or future) wife. She asks him if he has been to Rome just before or after he says something that is not translated. She asks what it means and he replies, 'Beautiful.' At least that is what I think I remember.

Mark W. Miller (talk) 13:23, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

I just found this dialogue mentioned on a different website which says Gibson responded to the Rome reference by speaking French.

Mark W. Miller (talk) 13:37, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

In the movie, Wallace knows his native language, Latin and French. He speaks latin and French to Isabel(?) particularly when there is a conversation between some English aide and her. He responds back to them in Latin then asks if they prefer French. 2605:E000:9161:A500:3832:5234:5BA4:7DB6 (talk) 08:08, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Wallace asking whether Isabella prefers French is another historic fautlt of the movie since the English and Scottish nobility did not speak English at that time, but French (they may have understood the languages of the commoners, but not used them as first choice). Indeed, Henry V was the first English king to speak English at court.

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Edition Versions?
Are there different video releases, and if so, should they be mentioned? For example, what's the difference between "Limited Cinedition" and "Special Collectors Edition" and what I assume would be a "regular" edition? JasonCarswell (talk) 06:25, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

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Inadequate explanantion of the film/execution process.
This paragraph, "In London, Wallace is brought before an English magistrate, tried for high treason, and condemned to public torture and beheading. Even whilst being hanged, drawn and quartered, Wallace refuses to submit to the king. As cries for mercy come from the watching crowd deeply moved by the Scotsman's valor, the magistrate offers him a quick death if he utters the word, "Mercy". Wallace instead shouts, "Freedom!", and the judge orders his death. Moments before being decapitated, Wallace sees a vision of Murron in the crowd, smiling at him." is confusing.

Wallace refuses to submit to the king and he refuses mercy. Is asking for mercy submitting and if so then that needs to be better associated between the two. How does the hang, drawn and quartered figure into this. Why should he submit or ask for mercy when he gets decapitated at the end anyways? This paragraph is written by someone who understands the film and the process but does not get it across to the reader. I've seen the film upteen times. How is it played out in the film that by Wallace not asking for mercy is then punished by the executioner(s). How? Because there is no sense of duration of any of it from yelling "Freedom" and the judge ordering his death which I presume is decapitation? There is subliminal information not making it to the text.2605:E000:9161:A500:3832:5234:5BA4:7DB6 (talk) 08:00, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Original Research is not allowed on Wikipedia. Find a Reliable Source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.111.25.206 (talk) 23:44, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

I agree that the film is confused in its handling of these issues, but we should be cautious about discussing this in the article without proper sources. PatGallacher (talk) 01:21, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Racism
Why is there no mention of the widespread allegations that this film was racist in its portrayal of the English characters? (86.163.135.87 (talk) 17:25, 27 July 2018 (UTC))
 * Because, so far, all such WP:FRINGE type of un-Reliable Sourced blogs and so on, have not gained consensus. Until Reliable Sources find some sort of tread to gain from this sort of nonsense, it won't be in the article. 50.111.25.206 (talk) 23:43, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Because a)Wikipedia isn’t neutral and accurate attempts to confirm anti English prejudice will always be attacked by the same who carry anti English bias and b) Wikipedia itself is prejudiced. Note how a mainstream, ordinary newspaper such as the Daily Mail is banned as a source by Wikipedia 86.3.134.204 (talk) 23:10, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Themes
The article needs perhaps a themes section. Because there is a large criticism section, there should be some handling of the film's themes which claify some of the content in the criticism section. Some themes: The film is anti-aristocratic, pro-Scottish independence, and anti-British, and there is a substantial amount of criticism of the film from the British press and intelligencia of the films historical inaccuracy, but also of the film's themes named above, either directly or indirectly.

Any simple refutations of the criticisms is also important. For example the criticism of the inaccurate wardrobe (kilts) is easily dismissed by directorial prerogative. -Inowen (nlfte) 09:23, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * We need sources that discuss the film's themes. Reviews are often a good place to look for sourced commentary, but academic sources are even better. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 03:27, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Misleading Ethnicity
One of the biggest problems with Braveheart is the anachronistic portrayal of the ethnic groups involved.

Both the 'English' and 'Scottish' aristocracy at this period were neither English nor Scots but rather Norman-French. Robert the Bruce was quite as French as Edward.

Nor were the Scots all exactly 'Scottish'. The Highlanders were Scots to be sure. But the Lowlanders of whom Wallace was one were, despite being subjects of the King of the Scots, in fact predominantly Anglo-Saxons or 'English'.

To complicate matters even further the inhabitants of the South West of Scotland had historically been Welsh or Old British. And 'Welsh' seems to be the most likely origin of the surname Wallace.

Thus rather than being a simple Scots vs English conflict the events portrayed in Braveheart are really a complex mixture of a peasants revolt, a barons revolt and a Norman civil war. Cassandra. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.74.49.237 (talk) 10:45, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
 * The important thing is to explain how one would improve the article. Do any published secondary sources talk about this? WhisperToMe (talk) 03:05, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

The main article here is First War of Scottish Independence (1296-1328). Braveheart is just a fictionalized depiction of it.

The ethnic backgrounds of the combatants are not that important. Robert the Bruce was Scoto-Norman, and a descendant of both the Anglo-Normans and the Gaels. His hereditary claim to the throne was based on his descent from David I of Scotland (reigned 1124-1153).

Scotland in the High Middle Ages represented a mix of cultures anyway. Scoto-Normans, Gaels, Norse–Gaels, and Anglo-Saxons were all part of its demography. The variety of Middle English spoken in Scotland would eventually evolve into the Scots language. Dimadick (talk) 13:48, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

Philip
It's far from clear that the character of Philip, Edward II's lover, is even loosely based on Philip Mowbray. He might be loosely based on Piers Gaveston, although he wasn't defenestrated by Edward I either. PatGallacher (talk) 00:32, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

'Braveheart'
I have excised two references to 'Braveheart' being a name that applies to Robert Bruce. This is a post-'Braveheart' factoid, derived from a misreading of certain 19th century poems and retellings where Sir James Douglas is depicted as addressing Bruce's actual heart as he carries it in battle- (in themselves elaborations based on Sir Walter Scott's fictitous  embroidering of an equally fictitious poem from the 15th century). It has no bearing on the historical character of Robert Bruce or his legacy. JF42 (talk) 15:15, 29 April 2022 (UTC)