Talk:Brazil at the 2023 Pan American Games

Orphaned references in Brazil at the 2023 Pan American Games
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Brazil at the 2023 Pan American Games's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "manual": From Gymnastics at the 2023 Pan American Games:  From Taekwondo at the 2023 Pan American Games – Qualification:  From Tennis at the 2023 Pan American Games:  From Karate at the 2023 Pan American Games – Qualification:  From United States at the 2023 Pan American Games:  From Water skiing at the 2023 Pan American Games – Qualification:  From Rowing at the 2023 Pan American Games:  From Water polo at the 2023 Pan American Games: </li> <li>From Roller sports at the 2023 Pan American Games: </li> <li>From Judo at the 2023 Pan American Games – Qualification: </li> <li>From Boxing at the 2023 Pan American Games – Qualification: </li> <li>From Cycling at the 2023 Pan American Games – Qualification: </li> <li>From Fencing at the 2023 Pan American Games: </li> <li>From Rugby sevens at the 2023 Pan American Games: </li> <li>From Cuba at the 2023 Pan American Games: </li> <li>From Bowling at the 2023 Pan American Games – Qualification: </li> <li>From Beach volleyball at the 2023 Pan American Games: </li> <li>From Taekwondo at the 2023 Pan American Games: </li> </ul>

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. Feel free to remove this comment after fixing the refs. AnomieBOT ⚡ 02:52, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Cleanup tag
I've again replaced the cleanup tag on this article. The tag should not be removed until the issues the tag describes are remedied: there is an undefined reference in the article, and almost all of the sections contain empty boilerplate tables. -- Mikeblas (talk) 14:27, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Instead of blindly edit warring and reverting, you would have seen there is no more undefined references on this article. You can also see the games have not started, ergo the tables cannot be filled at this time. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 15:11, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Note that you were the first to revert, and removed a maintenance tag after making zero effort at repairing the issue it identified. If the tables can't be filled in, they shouldn't be in the article per WP:CRYSTALBALL, obviously. Empty boilerplate isn't the mark of a quality article. I've updated and expanded the list in the cleanup tag. -- Mikeblas (talk) 15:19, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

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 * Thank you for your help, Rublamb! I've removed a couple of the many blank tables here, and added the template you've suggested. I'll carry out similar edits on the other "Country at the 2023 Pan American Games", which are in similarly poor condition. -- Mikeblas (talk) 15:33, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * One person's opinion doesn't = the correct way. Removing tables is unnecessary as these games start next week and will be filled up. Instead hiding them would be better. Also the event has not started so using the current sporting event is wrong Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 16:32, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I have reverted most of your edits that removed tables as its highly unconstructive. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 16:33, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * These articles are all in terrible condition. I can't understand your resistance to improving them, or marking them for improvement. This is'nt one person's opinion; see the AfD discussion as well as the repeatedly referenced Wikipedia policies. Since the tables are empty, there's nothing destructive in removing them. -- Mikeblas (talk) 16:35, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * You don't understand MSE events clearly. How can these articles be improved if the games have not started yet? Hiding the tables is a more constructive way of 'hiding' these if they aren't warranted at this time (instead of just removing/blanking them). Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 16:42, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * You are correct. A 3O is just that--an opinion. However, it is an opinion based on Wikipedia policy. It is great that you are enthusiastic about adding content to this article. However, please remember that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a newspaper or crystal ball. You cannot say for sure who will participate in a sporting event in the future; even those scheduled to participate are subject to change. I was being generous in suggesting that you label this article current as a way to justify its place in Wikipedia. If this is not a current event, then this content has no place in Wikipedia. Those are really the only choices I could find. The tables can be hidden or removed (and later replaced); you are correct that either approach will work. With regards to what improvements can be made: As I detailed above, the empty tables are pre-populated with red links that will never have a match in Wikipedia. In some cases, this is something to link to and those should be corrected. I gave one example in my response. Another is a red link to "swimming". This could be improved by linking to an actual article "Swimming (sport)" rather than leaving the red link. Many red-linked terms will never match a Wikipedia article: men's recurve, team compound, women's duel, women's team, Men's C-1, B-boys, etc. These links can be removed to improve the article. There are also several red links to main articles that do not exist. WP:REDNO specifically says, "Because they are useless as navigation aids, do not create red links in: Templates such as Main. So this is another area where this table needs improvement; these links should be removed until such an article exists. As long as this article has issues, other editors have the option of labeling content as needing improvement or removing flawed content because it does not adhere to Wikipedia's guidelines. You can help resolve this by fixing the issues with red links and hiding/removing the tables until the events take place and have sources. Rublamb (talk) 21:23, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * There's little difference between removing the blank tables and hiding them. (Presumably, you mean commenting them out with . MOS:COMMENT explains how HTML comments are meant to be used, and it's not to hide templates in article sources. The style guide says Avoid adding too many invisible comments because they can clutter the wiki source for other editors., and in these articles many large blocks would be commented away while we wait for someone to populate them.) Nothing is deleted (usually) on Wikipedia; the boilerplate text can be copied from previous versions of the article, and it's not hard to build templates on your own computer in a text file to keep around when the data is ready. The appropriate solutions -- drafts and sandboxing -- have been recommended to you before, but for some reason you won't accept them. Wire-framed, incomplete articles aren't appropriate for visible article space. -- Mikeblas (talk) 01:13, 12 October 2023 (UTC)