Talk:Brazilian Catholic Apostolic Church

Translated from Portuguese
I translated this page from the Portuguese equivalent, leaving out a complex prelude about various attempts to create a Brazilian national church which probably needs its own article. I am not an expert on this denomination, nor am I fluent in Portuguese, so I would be overjoyed if someone who was one of these or both checked over my article. Kennethmyers 18:50, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Membership Figures
The ICAB website gives a figure of 14 million members in Brazil. Someone has added the comment that analysts say there are really only a few thousand members. The source of this statement should be cited/linked. I'm not doubting the numbers, since I have no idea personally, but sources for divergent information like this should be cited. Thanks. Timotheos 18:10, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I've updated the international membership to 2 million, per the ICAN website as of 6/12/2007. Timotheos 19:04, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Those figures are unrelable. Actual membership is about 560,000 according to the 2010 census of Brazil. –BoBoMisiu (talk) 17:19, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Inquiries
More context regarding events leading to the creation of ICAB can be obtained here. Also, membership info can be confirmed with the church's Apostolic Delegate to the United States, Bp. Andre Queen (appointed by Dom Luis Fernando Castillo Mendez in 2005), at (312) 994-2339 [posted publicly on the church's website]. Pax! Dcn. Steve (Slohrenz 13:22, 7 March 2007 (UTC))

GA?
Somebody should nominate this for GA. -- SECisek 09:51, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Feel free to go ahead and nominate it. Anyone can nominate an article for GA, and it's good to get the feedback from reviewers on how to improve the article.  Timotheos 13:45, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I already have three articles rotting on the GA candidate list - waiting for review - or else I would have nominated this one myself. If somebody else nominates it, I'll judge it. I have never edited it. -- SECisek 13:47, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

GA Review
1. Well written. Clear prose and layout. ✅

2. Accurate and verifiable. Footnotes from reliable sources. ✅ Needs more citation if possible.

3. Broad. Major topics are covered with no unnecessary details. ✅

4. Neutral. ✅

5. Stable. ✅

6. Images. Appropriate with fair use rationale. ✅ More pictures would be nice, too.

Could also use an info box. Not even close to FA, but good enough. Well done and keep up the good work here. -- SECisek 04:45, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

"Bishop Carlos Duarte Costa was an outspoken critic of the regime of Brazilian president Getúlio Vargas (1930–1945) and of the alleged Vatican's relationship with fascist regimes"
In the sentence above, the word alleged is crucial. If we omit that word, then we will be using Wikipedia voice to present Bishop Costa's personal POV as if it were objective truth. -- Jorge Peixoto (talk) 01:29, 20 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia policy says

"Avoid stating opinions as facts. Usually, articles will contain information about the significant opinions that have been expressed about their subjects. However, these opinions should not be stated in Wikipedia's voice. Rather, they should be attributed in the text to particular sources, or where justified, described as widespread views, etc. For example, an article should not state that 'genocide is an evil action', but it may state that 'genocide has been described by John X as the epitome of human evil.'"


 * How come this policy just seems to be implemented with ICAB and not with the Roman Catholic Church? Katholikenhabeneinewahl (talk) 11:08, 21 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Besides, I am not trying to present untruths and truths, or break any policies, I am just trying to protect the pages connected with my church from vandalism. Unfortunately sometimes some of the wikipedia editors are part of the problem! Especially when they have no idea about religion or the Catholic faith, or are trying to discredit the Brazilian Catholic Apostolic Church, because of their affiliation with other catholic churches. Katholikenhabeneinewahl (talk) 11:12, 21 May 2012 (UTC)


 * This also applies to the Roman Catholic Church. Right in the introduction of Roman_catholic_church, we see
 * "Led by the Pope, it defines its mission as spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ,[2] administering the sacraments[3] and exercising charity.[4]"
 * It doesn't say "The mission of the Roman Catholic Church is to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ", it says "it defines its mission as spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ". -- Jorge Peixoto (talk) 14:03, 21 May 2012 (UTC)


 * This has nothing to do with so-called "vandalism". Do not make false accusations against other editors of vandalism when they are only implementing Wikipedia's policies. These policies apply to ALL articles. It would also be a good idea if you stopped creating sockpuppet user names for this and related articles.  You are running the risk of being indefinitely blocked from editing. Afterwriting (talk) 11:52, 21 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Dear Afterwriting I just wanted to thank you for changing "Catholic Church" into Roman Catholic Church in the paragraph about Bishop Ferraz. Katholikenhabeneinewahl (talk) 13:04, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

David Bell
David Bell was added in by an IP editor. His name is not found on the denomination's endereços page included in the article.

La Stampa published two articles about Bell in 2012. One of those articles state that Bell "professes to be the archbishop of London, was ordained in ICAB and founded the Roman Catholic Society of Pope Pius XIII" and that Bell claims that he "had been welcomed in a community in the Diocese of Fiesole, Italy, where he ordained a deacon  and a priest." Bell is implicitly labeled as an episcopus vagans in the article. "Bell - who uses the title 'Eminence', reserved for cardinals, referring to himself also as 'Archbishop of London' – superior of the Roman Catholic Society of Pope Leo XIII, a traditionalist group that celebrates the Tridentine Mass." It seems, from the articles, that there was confusion in 2012 about Bell claiming to be a Roman Catholic and the Vatican made clear that he is not a Roman Catholic bishop.

From the articles, Bell is definitely not a member of the Roman Catholic Church. He might also not be a member of ICAB, since he seems to have represented in 2012 that he was in some way a Roman Catholic.

An Old Catholic blog reposted a 2013 blog post which claims that Bell is not an ICAB bishop.

So his name does not appear on the ICAB website and he represented himself as a Roman Catholic and a blog (which presents itself as ICAB related) states Bell is not an ICAB bishop. –BoBoMisiu (talk) 14:18, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Vandalism
Interesting to note bits and pieces of vandalism here. A user - 2a00:23c6:64b5:8600:dc21:7aed:3794:ac0 - deleted a sentence with TWO published sources (there are many more to support it) and commented "Hearsay" on the edit. I have replaced the sentence about a very well-documented link to a paedophilia and child-exploitation ring. Apollinari (talk) 17:53, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

WCCAC
The references to WCCAC must correspond to the separate entry about WCCAC - this is not a lot to ask! If there is ANY evidence (reliable sources) of activity in the WCCAC communion, it should be added to both the ICAB and WCCAC articles. The current references to WCCAC are sourced. If there are other sources, let's add them. Apollinari (talk) 17:56, 6 December 2020 (UTC)