Talk:Brazilian hip hop

Untitled
Here are some more artists, if anyone cares to put them in the correct cities! I added them to the German website, because the artists are not sorted out by city there, so they could all just be lumped into one category. I unfortunatley do not have the time to do that. But for what it's worth, here are the additional artists, perhaps I repeated one


 * Gabriel, O Pensador
 * Racionais MC's
 * Somos Nós a Justiça
 * 509-E
 * Andre Abujamra
 * Elza Soares
 * Possemente Zulu
 * Potencial 3
 * Black Gero
 * Personagens
 * Stereo Maracanã
 * Veiga & Salazar
 * MC Partideiro
 * Mamelo Sound System
 * XIS
 * Instituto & Sabotage
 * Thaíde & DJ Hum

--LanguageSLO 07:02, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Hip Hop as Pedagogy - post rewrite thoughts
The article is available to read online and can be found in the ref section.

The article itself is quite extensive dealing with many factors which I've had to leave out. Some political, economic and afrocentric themes have been omitted. The article starts with a brief overview of academic concepts and terms. I'm not fully conversant with these concepts and though within the understanding of most readers I felt as though their incorporation into the article would be more of a hindrance than a help (and if I'm honest would be a sign of my lack of understanding of what they encapsulate). I've done my best with the rewrite and may revisit the original document to see if I can further expand the ideas presented but if anyone who is pursuing this field wishes to rewrite or add to this section then please do.

One of the most important things I left out was the CEU funding (which is currently being reduced by the San Paulo municipality) and the House of Hip Hop which is a "grass roots" organization (more community based and and less reliant on state approval for its agenda) that has the same pedagogical aims as the CEU.

Sluffs (talk) 16:10, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Alternative address for ref
I added a ref to the article for the Gabriel o Pensador song about Collor. There's two identical versions of the article at the site. I think the one I used is a general archive page and gave no publication date. A quick search of their site produced the original article with publication date. I'm providing the second link here just in case a 404 occurs later when a reader clicks the link I provided in the ref section. I was going to replace the link with this one but I felt as though the formatting of the "archive" page was a lot easier to read. Since the magazine deserves to be credited this link here should suffice for the moment for anyone who wants to investigate other Brazilian topics in what seems to be a very informative and well-written magazine. Also the page linked here has a search box, back issues, current articles, etc.

Alternative Address for Gabriel o Pensador Ref - Brazzil Magazine

Sluffs (talk) 17:53, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Portuguese Wikipedia Internal Links Placeholder
Wikipedia needs external refs to validate the information and details contained in an article. However due to the importance of the Portuguese Wikipedia articles, which are currently being used as references, I'm placing them here for future editors. Do not restore these to the article there are plenty of other sources to validate the majority of the details in this article.


 * http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cart%C3%A3o_Postal_Bomba!
 * http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dj_jamaika
 * http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%A2mbio_Negro
 * http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapadura
 * http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tv_cultura
 * http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dina_Di
 * http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabotage_(cantor)
 * http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kl_jay
 * http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_blue
 * http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/MC_Marechal
 * http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mano_brown
 * http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conic

One Article or Two Articles?
This is an article about a national genre. The artist GOG is in the Brasília section yet was an early pioneer so should be in the History section near the start of the 90s. The problem is that when you read the Brasília section you are taken back in time. That makes this two articles since time is linear and articles chronicling the development and evolution of a genre need a linear time frame to allow the chronology to be correct. At the moment you have two chronologies - the History section (starting in the 80s and detailing mainly São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro) and then the Brasilia section (also starting "late 80s" but solely about the Capital of Brazil) - two starts = two articles.

I'll move GOG to the History section (circa 1992) and remove all the biographical details (where he was born, etc) - those details should be in his own article. There's no problem in adding "GOG was the first rap artist to emerge out of the Brasilia hip hop scene. His first release in 1992 was....".

Sluffs (talk)

The inclusion of Funk Carioca tracks
There is a difference between the genres of Hip Hop and Funk Carioca. I'm from the UK so Funk Carioca is new to me but it doesn't sound like Hip Hop to me - musically that is. Funk Carioca does have rap vocals and I think in Brazil the genres influence and inform each other. One of the problems is the William and Duda track "Rap Do Borel" released in the early 1990s but at the moment in a more "political" section and chronologically is mentioned after the Sabotage 2002 release - this needs to be addressed. I won't change anything at the moment but Funk Carioca either needs to be integrated into hip hop history section (with the differences between the genres noted) or removed to new section (maybe even taken out of the article completely and placed in the article on Funk Carioca with just a few sentences to do with the genre in this article with the obligatory blue link).

Not a big issue but the article has a lot of information on Funk.

Sluffs (talk) 21:43, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Merging the Brasilia section into the History section
Just though I'd mention that as I merge the details from the Brasilia section into the History section that the details in both sections may seem fragmented. To remove any concerns that other editors may have about what I'm doing - when I've finished I'll create sub-headings (maybe "decades" or something else - not too sure yet) so that the information has a better layout.

The sentences on the releases may be need to rewritten and some other points added. Chronology is so important to history of any sort (including music genres) and I feel that this is the way forward for this article.

Sluffs (talk) 15:57, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Notes and details for article
There's a documentary at YouTube called BREAK DANCE BRASIL METRÔ SÃO BENTO detailing the history of Brazilian break dancing. I don't speak Portuguese but the 1984 US film Beat Street is featured in the documentary, so I imagine that was a major influence. It also interviews many of the pioneers (dancers) from the early 1980s - also has many photos from that period showing the crowds (quite large in some shots) who attended these informal gatherings. Would be nice if someone could do an English transcription of the documentary or English subtitles and upload it again to YouTube.

At the moment the article is more music orientated. An idea might be to do the sub-headings as decades with the further sub-headings: music, break dancing, graffiti, etc for each decade. I'll add the names mentioned in the documentary to this Talk Page (that should at least cover the period 1980 to 1990 though only for Sao Bento).

Dancers and B-Boys
 * Nelson Triunfo
 * Eduardo So
 * Joao Break
 * Allan Beat
 * Osgemeos
 * Marcelinho

Sluffs (talk) 17:51, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Mangue Beat and the group Chico Science
I'm not too sure if Chico Science should be so prominent in the History section. They are classed by everyone (including their own self-classification) as a Mangue Beat band. I must admit that I don't know much about the genre. I went to the tube to check out some videos of the genre and it sounded more like funk mixed with rock - even slightly punky especially the group Nação zumbi (another Mangue Beat band). There are hip hop elements but they are not prominent in the music (please note I'm talking about the music not the lyrics or rapping).

In the UK we had a genre called Trip Hop but no one in the UK would describe it as "authentic hip hop". As expected Brazilian hip hop seems to have started as predominantly an African-Brazilian genre and entered the mainstream at which point a lot of Brazilian rock and alternative bands absorbed some of the elements.

I would like to remove the groups associated with Mangue Beat from the History section. I'll leave the details as they are for the moment but eventually I intend to create a separate heading "Other Genres in Brazil influenced by Hip Hop" (or a similar title).

Sluffs (talk) 15:04, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Black Junior's album of 1984 - 1st hip hop album?
The Black Junior's released their self-titled debut album in 1984. Lima Santos credits this album as the first Brazilian rap album. I've listed Hip Hop Cultura De Rua as the first hip hop album (not original research by me just a detail from one of the refs I've used).

The Black Junior's album is up on YouTube. I had a listen and it is rap but has more in common with "Rappers Delight" - funk and disco backing with a rap over the top. "Rappers Delight" was the first worldwide rap hit but no one would called it the first hip hop hit. The reason the distinction has to be made using the backing track is because spoken speech in music is not a new thing - The Last Poets and Gil Scott Heron had been "rapping" a message in their music a full decade or more earlier.

Check out "When The Revolution Comes" by The Last Poets released in 1970.

Check out "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" by Gil Scott Heron released in 1971.

So listen to the above tracks and then the Black Junior's album - compare those tracks to the tracks on the album Hip Hop Cultura De Rua and I think you may agree that this was the first "hip hop" album is Brazil as stated in the article.

I'm not an expert so who knows maybe there are other albums to consider but for the moment I'm happy to give the credit to Hip Hop Cultura De Rua.

Sluffs (talk) 13:25, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Lima Santos (see ref) also states: The Kaskatas record company recorded the first Brazilian compilation album of Rap, “A ousadia do rap". Listening to it right now on YouTube and the track "Baby" is more soul (vocally like the Delfonics or Harold Melvin and the Bluenotes) and sung in English. The second track "Cerveja" is more hip hop with a rap and the electro beat that was popular of that period. This album was released in 1987 - a full year before Hip Hop Cultura De Rua. This may qualify for the title of first hip hop album. It all depends on whether you call "Planet Rock" by Bambaataa a hip hop song - if you class that as hip hop then the Kaskatas release is hip hop.

It might be an idea to include the two albums: Kaskatas and the Black Junior's. That way readers can investigate and make up their own mind.

Sluffs (talk) 13:55, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

My overuse of the semi-colon
Some of you may have noticed that I've used semi-colons extensively. This was the result of adding extra details for the many artists and releases that I came across in my research. Using semi-colons extensively is not recommended or stylish. When the article is nearing completion I'll try to remove some of the semi-colons and maybe rewrite some of the details.

01:14, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Forgot to sign

Sluffs (talk) 11:38, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Placeholder for removed material
Here's the removed text. I had questioned the validity of including a separate section for the capital Brasilia in my earlier post "Two Articles" and have made every effort to integrate the details about GOG, DJ Jamaika, etc into the History Section. Its essential to not weigh the national articles towards regionalism since this should be covered by their own articles. I'll try and add the images back in where I can. Please note I have not finished with the article and I intend to add a Dance and Graffiti section but that will be dependent on the information available online. Some of the artists and details in the text not mentioned now in the main article will be added at some time in the future though once again dependent on references.

REMOVED TEXT:

First Generation
DJ Jamaika is one the main pioneers responsible for elevating and spreading the hip hop scene in the Distrito Federal area since 1993. He has participated in various radio and TV programs, such as “Transaméric”. He is a rapper from Ceilândia, a satellite city of Brasília, and was a member of the hip hop group Alibi. DJ Jamaika has also released a series of gospel rap albums with his latest release being Fé em Deus (Faith In God) in 2012. He won the Prêmio Hutúz award in 2007 for best beat maker.

GOG, Genival Oliveira Gonçalves, is a rapper and poet from Brasília. He was born in Sobradinho and moved to Guará, another satellite city around Brasília, in 1973, where he resided until 1991. In 2007 GOG won the Prêmio Hútuz award for best artist. His most recent work is the live album Cartão Postal Bomba! (Post Bomb!).

Second Generation
MC RAPadura Xique-Chico was born in Fortaleza and came to Brasília in 1997. In 2010 MC RAPadura performed with MV Bill on Manos e Minas; a weekly music show produced by TV Cultura.

Female Rappers
Flora Matos is one of the most popular female hip hop artists in Brazil. Matos first performed on stage with her father's band Acarajazz when she was 4 years old. In 2003 Matos performed her first shows with DJ Chicco Aquino. In 2006 Matos performed with DJ Brother in a collaboration that earned her the award of best female singer in Brasília. In 2007 she recorded a new version of the song "Véu da Noite" (Veil of Night) by singer Céu; the remix was produced by DJ and beatmaker KL Jay from Racionais MC's. In October 2008, she toured Europe including the French cities of Angers and Paris. When she returned, she released her first single called “Jogo da Velha.” One year later, she performed with Emicida and released her first mixtape called Flora Matos vs Stereodubs. In 2010 she appeared onstage at the Coletivo Noções Unidasat (Collective Notions Nations) concert.

Current Generation
In response to the popularity of hip hop various events have been organized in Brasília. The Calango Pensante was an event organized in 2010 by MC Ahoto (Jorge Pinho) in which MCs battled at the Conic (a mall located in the center of Brasília) with prizes being awarded to the winners. He was nominated for the best Graffiti award at the Prêmio Hip Hop Zumbi of 2011. Prêmio Hip Hop Zumbi was created in 2010 by ArtSam with the intention of promoting artists from the DF state which has the second largest hip hop scene in Brazil. The name Prêmio Hip Hop Zumbi refers to the slave Zumbi who became the leader of the Palmares quilombo (communities formed by escaped slaves).

END

City of Men - Episode: Hip Sampa Hop
Can someone please upload an English subtitled version of the episode to YouTube please. The episode "Sabado" has an English subtitle upload but is more to do with Funk. The episode Hip Sampa Hop has three well-known Brazilian hip hop artists in it but I can't find an English subtitled version. Of course this is nothing to do with Wikipedia but it would be helpful for readers of this article who only speak English.

cheers

Sluffs (talk) 20:00, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

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