Talk:Break a leg

죄송한 마음에 머리가 지끈 - Break my head

Contradictory theories
The article contradicts itself, the only thing listed under Plausible Theories is "During Elizabethan times when, instead of applause, the audience would bang their chairs on the ground — and if they liked it enough, banging harder on the floor, the leg of the chair would break", yet under the Other Popular, Yet Implausible Theories section it also lists "The audience breaking legs: Various folk-theories propose that Elizabethan or even Ancient Greek theatrical audiences either stomped their literal legs or banged chair legs to express applause", this can't be both plausible and implausible

WikiProject Theatre
I have taken this article on as a part of the WikiProject Theatre. My plans to improve: Mkdw talk 02:10, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * This article has several non-professional comments and NPOV issues
 * This article lacks several references and unverified facts
 * This article needs Wikification
 * This article needs stub sorting

Theories
Except for the Yiddish origin of both "break a leg" and "Hals- und Beinbruch", which seems extremely plausible (especially given the substantial Jewish input to popular theatre), all the theories advanced seem utterly fanciful. (Is there a term for "urban legend" type derivations, along the lines of the widely believed and wholly erroneous derivation of "tip" from "To Insure Promptness"? There should be.)    —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.214.59.212 (talk) 13:46, August 27, 2007 (UTC)


 * For an alternative, likely accurate origin, read the story of Samuel Foote, proprieter of now the Theatre Royal. In the book, London's Strangest Tales, and referenced around the Internet, the following story is told - the following is not the best version told, but it was easiest from a copy/paste perspective! (from the Theatre Royal Haymarket website):

"1754 saw a change of administration for the Hay Market, as the flamboyant Samuel Foote, a celebrated mimic, stepped into John Potter’s shoes. Foote’s name was to become somewhat ironic as, handed a rather frisky horse at a Royal Hunting Party as a prank, Foote was thrown from his steed, breaking his leg severely and requiring amputation. Although he feared his career was over, the Hay Market was to benefit strangely from his misfortune. Horrified that the joke had so misfired, the Duke of York, a close personal friend and fellow guest at the hunt, asked if anything could be done for Foote. Immediately, Foote replied that all he wanted from life was a Royal Warrant and Patent for his ‘Little Theatre in the Hay’."

Apologies for the bad formatting/attribution, but I'm not a Wikipedia Specialist ~Edd


 * I heard the expression "break a leg" first many years ago when reading about the very earliest days of aviation. It makes sense in that respect, as I believe most old sayings do if you look in the right places.  In the early days of flying most planes were homemade and/or not very well made.  Everything was new and almost nothing proven or perfected in flying.  Many people crashed.  If a pilot crashed and was killed he might have many broken bones but they would just say he died, they wouldn't specify all his injuries.  If someone said a pilot had crashed and suffered a broken leg that would mean the pilot was alive.  When flying was so risky and not perfected just getting down alive was a very good thing.  Hence, wishing someone to "break a leg" is wishing them to survive their flight. I believe theater people first stole this line many years ago, probably not knowing its origins.  For some reason, some people love to steal words or phrases they don't understand but think are hip or cool.  Many terms have been stolen from the Vietnam War and used out of context.  For example, "blowing someone away" and "wasting someone" are both euphemisms for killing someone.  "Flashing" on something doesn't mean remembering but having some stimulus suddenly trigger a deep seated reaction in the mind that makes it seem as if the person is suddenly back in a former very dangerous bad situation. I think the expression "Break a leg" was stolen by theater people just because it sounded "cool" or different and I doubt any of them know its true origin. Chuck3284Chuck3284 (talk) 11:30, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The phrase the OP was looking for (to describe fanciful word origin theories) is folk etymology.


 * -- Karatorian (talk) 16:12, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Could also be a play on the old phrase "make a leg" which means to take a bow. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Emrys404 (talk • contribs) 22:40, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Lincoln Theory
If someone knows anything more about this theory as well as why it might be used to wish someone 'good luck' please expand that section. I have not removed it from my initial wikification of this article as it has the potiental to be elaborated and is an interesting fact. However, if this section is not expanded in due time, it will be removed. Mkdw talk 02:10, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Notice Please stop inserting comments about the Lincoln theory as being the earliest recorded use of the term. No notable source has yet been found to support that statement. It has been contradicted by several other sources which reference earlier known use of the term. No true evidence exists that' break a leg' truly refers to that incident, it's purely popular speculation. Thank you. Mkdw talk 10:41, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Break A Leg the sitcom
There's an online sitcom called Break A Leg its over at www.myspace.com/breakalegthesitcom and breakaleg.tv

It ran for a contest that FX had, and it just released a pilot episode. Is that notable enough to get a mention? There's other online things (I think they're called webisodes) that have gotten mention on wikipedia.

I can't figure out how to do the squiggly line to sign my name on this keyboard so just as a reference, my username is Geekening. The following unsigned comment was left by User:189.142.154.92
 * The article Break a leg (sitcom) was deleted after an AFD for failing WP:SPEEDY on several accounts. You can find the full results here. The reference to it in this article was also deleted correspondingly. Mkdw talk 11:24, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

1920
References below as well as 'The Complete Wonks of William Shakespeare' make reference to the origins of the traditions predating 1920. Mkdw talk 21:52, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Semantic Derivation
The term ‘break a leg’ is probably of a colloquial origin from the Mid Eng deriving from the Dutch ‘braeke’ with ‘allega’. Braeke or ‘brake’ is ‘to learn through subjection’ as in ‘to relax’ or ‘tame’, as in the O Du. to ‘bridle’ or ‘bit’ (later applied in Eng C16th to torture on the rack). Hence ‘brake in a horse’. Allega as seen in the term ‘allegory’ from the L, (as opposed to F alegre, ‘gaily’) ‘to speak otherwise than one seems to speak’ or tell a disguised story. Hence ‘break a leg’ appears to be a phonetic foreshortening of ‘braeke allega’, presumably an exhortation to actors to be or perform what they have practiced doing in rehearsal, literally ‘be as you have learnt to feign’. Brettcasben (talk) 02:20, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds interesting, do you have any sources to back up this etymology? Mkdw talk 21:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Gary Martin at 'The phrase finder'
Can we consider Gary Martin a reliable source? He claims on his bio page he is not specifically a scholar of phrases; neverthelesss he runs The phrase finder. Martin says he was a recording engineer in the 1970s, and a computer system worker at a university after that. In 1985, he performed some post-graduate studies of an unstated nature, followed by participation in a computational linguistics research project. At his 'break a leg' page, Martin fails to cite sources. To me, this Martin reference does not appear a solid source. Binksternet (talk) 02:48, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Well... frankly, none of the sources we have regarding this word are sound because no one really knows where the very commonly used term comes from. The whole thing is debated, and no one has written a book nor has really any empirical evidence as to the scope of this phrase through history. So what some editors have done, have pulled every piece of information whether it was from a tourism website, dictionary, foreign language, and .org website to give at least a full listing of every plausible explanation of where this word came from. As a result many other sources now cite this article and confirm that no one really knows for sure. Half the 'notable' websites I tried to find as sources in my usual repertoire quote Wikipedia -- including most of the news stories that talk about the phase. This is also the reason why we haven't picked the most heavily sourced etymology but listed numerous alternatives. Last month this article was visited 16,285 times and considering the article looked like this I've done my best to fill out it. So I'm not maliciously trying to mislead people or make up stories and publish them here. Break a leg in a way is somewhat myth like and the sources are and always will be shaky at best. What I could use is some help if anyone knows a better place that would have the solid references required, but no one has been interested or bothered to try for 3 years. Mkdw talk 04:19, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Understudy
The drama teacher in the High School that I attended back in the 1970's told us that "Break a leg" traditionally was said in half-jest by the understudy to the lead actor. Of course, if the lead ever actually did break a leg, then the understudy would get the role for the rest of the show's run. The teacher was retired from a career in theater in New York City, so I always assumed that he knew what he was talking about.

Something almost the same happens in the plot of the musical 42nd Street.

71.199.121.113 (talk) 20:27, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

German origin
I'm a German linguist and almost 60 years of age... I have never, ever heard anyone say "Brich (dir) ein Bein" ("break a leg"), and I'm pretty sure that I've also never seen it in writing. "Hals- und Beinbruch" (literally: "fracture of neck and leg"- in English it would have to be "break your neck and leg", I guess) is indeed very often said in German, not only among aviators but by just about everyone. I'd be very surprised to learn that it is abridged to "Beinbruch" or re-worded to "Brich dir ein Bein" among theatre folks. Can't believe it. "Brich dir kein Bein" ("Don't break a leg")is a serious, not ironic wish that one would say to someone who is in serious danger of doing just that (when skiing in the Alps or the like). I find it highly probable that actors and dancers may use an equivalent of "break a leg" in Germany, but I bet it is "Hals- und Beinbruch", which may be derived from a misheard yiddish idiom but definitely became popular among aviators around 1900. In sailing "Mast- und Schotbruch" is used; it is obviously an adaptation of the "Hals- und Beinbruch" to the nautical scene, meaning "breaking of mast and sheet".141.91.129.4 (talk) 20:32, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The citation to https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/break-a-leg.html does not support the von Richtofen claim. If real, a better citation should exist. MichelleInSanMarcos (talk) 21:24, 1 July 2018 (that
 * Are the semantic meanings (redundant, but idc) of these two phrases, the one common in German and the one common in English not close enough to one another that some common origin of usage between the two can be considered likely? I find it not very plausible that both these phrases would have arisen entirely independently of one another, but the exact nature of those origins likely is impossible to determine. Firejuggler86 (talk) 07:09, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Greek origin
Why is it suggested that the term originated in Elizabethan times in the Greek origin section? Should the chair-breaking and bowing headings be combined into "English origins"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.239.213.8 (talk) 21:10, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Break a leg.
I thought every guy knew what break a leg was. I means to get lucky with a women. I'm sure that you can figure out what the rest is without me explaining the physical process at the end — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.198.168.150 (talk) 02:29, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

The explanation one of my acting coaches game was that the expression was born in the time of William Shakespeare. When thespians completed a performance, during curtain call they would first take a polite bow that would not require that they bend a knee or “break a leg”. If the audience insisted on a second curtain call they would return to the stage and take a deep bow that would require them to “break a leg”. So break a leg was a wish that the actor have an amazing performance. I don’t have a reference to offer. I don’t even remember my instructor’s name, but the definition works for me. Kirklansdon (talk) 14:16, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

Ferber
Does the Ferber quote really belong here, or at least in the way it currently is included without any kind of explanation? The understudies are hoping the principals will break legs so they can go on in place of the injured actor - not saying good luck to them. –Roscelese (talk &sdot; contribs) 17:52, 8 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Ferber does not say whether the understudies are sincere or not. I think the quote is exactly on topic, since the context is a dress rehearsal, "that grisly night" when "strange figures enter the dim auditorium" and grope around for their seats, in the process noticing various people in the audience who had a hand in the production of the play, and overhearing the understudies "politely" saying "break a leg" to the principal actors. This is exactly the scene many have experienced backstage and out in the house during a dress rehearsal. Ferber is colorful and suggestive but not explicit in her writing style; she allows the reader to impute a possibly less sincere motive to the understudies without making it plain. To my knowledge, nobody has analyzed Ferber's usage of the phrase, let alone dismissed it. I think we can take it in stride as part of the larger scene she paints. Binksternet (talk) 19:32, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Merde
The article says: Among professional dancers, the traditional saying is not "break a leg," but "merde".

From what I'm reading on the Internet, "merde" is not a superstitious anti-wish. It doesn't mean "I hope you take a shit on stage." The origin seems to be unclear, but a common theory is that it means "I hope the street in front of the theater is piled with horseshit from all the carriages of spectators." With that in mind, is this line at all relevant to the article? 66.224.70.107 (talk) 21:34, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * If the article was about superstitious anti-wishes then I think your argument would have more merit. Break a leg is a wishing of good fortunate as is expression merde. Don't you think that's a valid comparison and hence worthy of a mention in this article? Mkdw talk 00:56, 5 September 2013 (UTC)


 * The explanations for merde are various, just like for "break a leg"... It's impossible to know which one is correct.
 * The relevance of merde to "break a leg" is that both are mentioned quite a lot in the context of each other. For instance, actor Brian Stokes Mitchell assumes the two terms are interchangeable in At this Theatre: 100 Years of Broadway Shows, Stories and Stars, page vii, the book's Preface. Playwright James Kirkwood, Jr. writes that both terms are like anti-wishes delivered in place of "good luck": Diary of a Mad Playwright, page 153. Dancer Linda H. Hamilton writes that "dancers who want to support their colleagues say 'merde' (i.e., shit), actors say 'break a leg,' opera singers say 'in boco lupo' (i.e., in the mouth of the wolf), and comedians say nothing at all." In his book The French Play, professor Les Essif makes the connection plain: "Note that, in French, to say 'Merde!' to an actor before she performs is the equivalent of 'Break a leg!'"
 * I think we can safely keep this section in the article as relevant. Binksternet (talk) 00:57, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Alleged Hebrew "Baruch alechem"
There is no such phrase as "baruch alechem" in Hebrew. The expression as cited appears to have been cobbled from two common Hebrew words which would not normally appear together. "Baruch" ("ברוך", the first word of most Jewish blessings, meaning "blessed" in the singular) is incompatible with "alechem" ("עליכם" = "upon you (plural)"). "Beracha aleichem" ("ברכה עליכם") is grammatical (unlike the suggested "baruch alechem") but not common or idiomatic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AviJacobson (talk • contribs) 18:46, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Tour guide's theory
My brother took a tour in a London theater (Drury Lane?). He tells me that the tour guide know what us foolish American's think the entomology is. She said that the actual origin is that for some performance in some theater (my brother didn't tell me which performance or theater) there were so many curtain calls that the leg (the side curtain) fell down or broke. So "Break a leg" actually means your performance should do so well that you have so many curtain calls that the "leg" breaks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.88.225.206 (talk) 16:40, 18 October 2015 (UTC) Spikesdad (talk) 18:43, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

alleged von Richthofen's autobiography reference?
I just searched both the German and English versions, both available on Gutenberg Project, and neither one returns results for anything that I could identify as referring to 'break a leg and/or neck' in English or the German equivalent of the saying (Hals-und-Bein bruch), so I seriously doubt this saying exists in this  work. I'd love to be proven wrong, especially as my German is rather limited.

German text:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/24572/24572-h/24572-h.htm

English translation:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/41159/41159-h/41159-h.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:100B:B116:C5CA:AA03:4E04:F5B3:B6F6 (talk) 18:27, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

Similarity between Leg Line and Vaudeville Theory
Aren't "Leg Line" and "Vaudeville Theory" essentially the same theory? They are both to do with "breaking" an imaginary line of visibility (or invisibility) and thus getting paid. Nuttyskin (talk) 14:28, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

Karl Wallenda on Blue Peter
The origins of the term were discussed on the British kids' TV show Blue Peter in 1972 when German-born tightrope walker Karl Wallenda, then aged 68, appeared. He said "break a leg" was an expression he'd heard throughout his life as a performer that implied it was better to do so that "break your neck" - as in the German/Yiddish expression. While this might not be authoritative, it does imply that "break a leg" is part of a longer expression that's been reduced over time. It's summarized in an article entitled "Break your leg - Break your neck" in the 1972 Blue Peter Book. - Pro hib it O ni o ns (T) 15:41, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Related taboo wishes: performative magic
Break a neck, break the pen (when writing).

See e.g. here https://news.expats.cz/czech-language/zlom-vaz/ Zezen (talk) 16:05, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Cast
I've heard that it started being said before auditions as a play on words, wishing that the person would wind up in the cast. Obviously I can't add that to the article without a reliable source, but has anyone else heard that? - Lisa (talk - contribs) 17:43, 21 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Have heard this, many claiming offhand it's the real/proper origin. While the extreme of that is definitely untrue given the numerous other explanations, I'm surprised there isn't a section in the article about the origin/spread of this interpretation as it seems quite popular. The reason I looked up the phrase at all was to investigate it, as it sounded like one of those things people say are the 'original' to sound clever but were actually retroactive additions (like "...and fools rarely differ" which from my research is nearly but not quite as old as "great minds think alike") that add nuance or 'logic' to a preexisting phrase. 97.113.215.10 (talk) 16:23, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Break your legs
Whats mean? 14.43.96.207 (talk) 04:49, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Alternatives
Wouldn't "Knock 'em dead." be an acceptable well-wishing before a performance without as much confusion? There's a lot of suggestions for foreign alternatives, but none in English (and the original saying one may be looking for an alternative to is in English). I think this is probably the best replacement candidate that's still well-wishing, but without the Murphy's Law aspects of saying "Good luck." — The Crisses (talk) 00:04, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Google N-gram viewer
According to Google Books N-gram viewer, the earlriest occurence of the phrase "break a leg" was in 1750.

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=break+a+leg&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=3

Is it possible to go from N-gram viewer to the actual book?

BTW, does anybody have access to the Oxford English Dictionary? That would be an authoritative earliest reference. Nbauman (talk) 21:55, 1 December 2023 (UTC)