Talk:Breaking Benjamin/Archive 1

From September 16, 2007 and earlier.

changes
I added a link to a picture of Breaking Benjamin's logo that someone else posted below. Someone should really fix the trivia section it's gotten bigger each time I look at this article. It wouldn't be too hard to incorporate it into the band's history. devin75.40.234.151 03:02, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Origional Author
Mistakely I created this article while I was not signed in. I just want to identify myself as the original author. dance with the devil by breaking benjamin

Recommendations
I added a few details including the recommendations, and the the little paragraph starting with Ben. ;) adityam
 * Recommended songs sounds a little POV to me. This encyclopedia is supposed to be POV-free. Riffsyphon1024 18:59, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, for someone who wants to hear a few songs by them, should atleast be given a head start. the songs i've named have all been to the charts. just saves people time and clicks to going to the charts and checking them for themselves. --aditya mukherjee 15:00, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I concur with Riffsyphon1024. Recommendations do not belong in an encyclopedia. Charts are historical data, so they are appropriate for encyclopedic listing. However, recommendations aren't NPOV and therefore do not belong here. Cparker 18:11, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Breath #1 on pop 100??
Did Breath Actually Get #1 on the BillBoard pop 100? I didn't see any supporting data to this on the BillBoard, so I removed the info that said it was rank 1 for Pop 100. I did, however find the proof of it's ranking #1 on the mainstream rock chart. Cjgone2 04:30, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Screwed Up Page
Someone totally messed up this page. U can't even see the album art. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jordanfre (talk • contribs) 03:09, 3 January 2007 (UTC).
 * I've been trying to clean it up and put it back to it's original form. additionally to everyone DON'T CHANGE THE WEEKS IT'S BEEN AT #1, it's been 11 weeks so far Imasleepviking 20:05, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

WHAT????
Ok, first why is the page locked? Second, Breath has only been #1 for 4 weeks, not 13. The actual vandalism here is putting incorrect information and then locking the page. Someone either unlock the page or fix the current information. Thanks.

Plan 9
Somebody told me they started off as Strawberry Jam, or at least some of the band members did. Can we get some verification on this?

Picture
To me, the picture looks like Jeremy, not Chad. Notice the hair line. Then look at these pictures which include Jeremy:, ,. Chad looks nothing like that. Can anyone show that it's Chad, not Jeremy? Enfestid 18:44, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, it's the picture on the front of their official homepage. Seeing as Jeremy Hummel has been out of the band for over a year, I doubt they'd keep him on the front page. Blackball135 01:34, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

That's hardly reason enough to change the name. It obviously looks like Jeremy to me, not Chad. I see no proof otherwise... it's not unlikely to believe the picture is out of date. Why would they have a new publicity photo when no new material was being released? Enfestid 02:16, 5 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Look at this picture (Hummel is in the far right): . Looks like the exact same person to me.
 * Enfestid 02:26, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

All the photos mentioned in this talk post are of Jeremy Hummel. 72.47.12.7 09:16, 14 January 2006 (UTC) Cold417

you can't really trust a pic from breaking benjamin's website. i think they abandoned it for like a year. it's still promoting "we are not alone" instead of phobia. yeah, i compared jeremy's face, and i'm 95.352372% sure that's jeremy. 66.57.12.148 16:20, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Run Like Hell
Breaking Benjamin got their start (with me, anyway) from the Run Like Hell soundtrack. The game features two real-time action scenes (versus CGI) with the songs Polyamorous and Home playing in the background. Why isn't Run Like Hell mentioned anywhere on this page? Cparker 18:02, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Run Like Hell hardly did anything at all for their career. The music video was made before the game was released, then they changed the video to include scenes from the game in the video. The video game did absolutely nothing for their career, if you ask my opinion. The song was already popular before it, and the game didn't exactly sell all that well, so it's not like it had an impact on sales.

Enfestid 20:30, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
 * It's a little POV the way you both state it but it remains notable that both songs were included in the game given that Breaking Benjamin would go on to release/contribute a track that was incorporated into the much more mainstream video game success Halo 2. Only fair to at least mention it somewhere even if it is a two line blurb. 63.233.15.205

BB became popular when DJs at 97.9 X started playing their stuff. Blow Me Away came after the popularity. 74.33.161.233 02:07, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Genre?
On this article, the band is referred to as a "modern rock/post-grunge" band, yet both of their albums say Alternative metal. Which is it? Cparker 14:46, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I believe it is Alternative Metal

Agreed. They are more Alternative Metal than modern rock. In Flames 20:41, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Emocore? What does that even mean?

they're alternative metal/post-grunge/hard rock. modern rock is a term used by radio stations usually referring to alternative rock. Itachi1452 19:46, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

A bit nu-metal?
does anyone here think that some of their songs sound a little nu-metal? like in believe, burnley starts using his metal voice for a longer period of time than normal, and it starts to have a little bit of nu-metal sound. Itachi1452

ummmm....what do ya mean by nu-metal? sorry X] - inuxshinedown

I think they are a bit nu-metal as well. It's hard to define, but some of their songs give a nu-metal sound. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nu-metal 72.251.0.130 18:34, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

POV???
Does anyone else have a general issue with the overall tone of this article? I honestly don't feel that this is in keeping with the encyclopaedic nature of this site. The third paragraph in the "Band History" section are particularly fawning.Nnyheyd 03:03, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. The third paragraph is very POV. Their music is not "over-whelmingly heavy." In Flames 21:36, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

WTF OVERWHELMINGLY HEAVY? YOU'VE GOTTA BE KIDDING ME! they're awesome, and part of the beauty of the band is that it's metal but not metal ! yeah ben screams a bit....but it ROCKS!

NG
24.206.240.22 plugs links to the content-free "fansite" no-games.com, only for it to be removed. I see this as repeated minor vandalism. Shouldn't some action be taken against this?

It has content, and perhaps when researching the history of the band that you obviously care so much about...you shouldn't leave out a huge influence such as no-games.

Cold417 04:19, 21 July 2006 (UTC)Cold417

-It is obviously being promoted, for which Wikipedia should not be used for. Second- history? What history? The ONLY content on it is some MP3s. That hardly warrants its inclusion. 59.26.112.124 04:27, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it's a reference to the band, and it's material. As of today, there isn't any in-depth content, but it's was all there once, and will continue to be there. This is not vandalism. This is not a plug. It's not breaking any rules or Wiki, nor is it unrelated. If you have reasons for exclusion from Wiki, please list them...but remember that Wikipedia is supposed to contain "un-biased" information. If you continue to push the subject then perhaps a detailed explanation is in order.

Cold417 04:33, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Key words: "was all there once". Now there is nothing. Not only does it have to be material, but it has to be NOTABLE. The best site ever can be linked to, but if that best site ever becomes a blank page, it will be removed. If good content becomes no content, that's the way it is.


 * Cold417: Please stop promoting your own site as it violates the Wikipedia guidelines. Please read the Manual of Style and the External_links pages to understand Wikipedia guidelines. This isn't a fanlisting, and it's not meant to get your sites more hits, as you are clearly intending it to do. Excerpt from the latter:
 * * Fan sites: On articles about topics with many fansites, including a link to one major fansite is appropriate, marking the link as such. In extreme cases, a link to a web directory of fansites can replace this link. (Note: fanlistings are generally not informative and should not ordinarily be included.) (In other words, fansites are occasionally linked to, but only if they have new information not found in other links.)
 * * Sites that contain neutral and accurate material not already in the article. Ideally this content should be integrated into the Wikipedia article, then the link would remain as a reference, but in some cases this is not possible for copyright reasons or because the site has a level of detail which is inappropriate for the Wikipedia article. (In other words, fan sites are normally not considered "neutral" sources of information, and thus should not be linked.)
 * *  A website that you own or maintain, even if the guidelines above imply that it should be linked to. This is because of neutrality and point-of-view concerns; neutrality is an important objective at Wikipedia, and a difficult one. If it is relevant and informative, mention it on the talk page and let other — neutral — Wikipedia editors decide whether to add the link.  (In other words: DO NOT LINK YOUR OWN SITE.)
 * *  External sites can possibly violate copyright. Linking to copyrighted works is usually not a problem, as long as you have made a reasonable effort to determine that the page in question is not violating someone else's copyright. If it is, please do not link to the page. Knowingly and intentionally directing others to a site that violates copyright has been considered a form of contributory infringement in the United States (Intellectual Reserve v. Utah Lighthouse Ministry). Also, linking to a page that illegally distributes someone else's work sheds a bad light on us (see Wikipedia:Copyrights and in particular Contributors' rights and obligations). (In other words, until you can cite and prove you have not violated copyrights, you should not link your page... which you shouldn't do to begin with.)


 * Again: Please stop linking your site. Wikipedia is not grounds for self-promotion. Your site also does not add any relevant information, which is what primarily warrants linking.


 * Thank you.
 * Enfestid 04:50, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't the one who initially added the link, I'm only adding it because of it's false removal.

Read This:  On articles about topics with many fansites, including a link to one major fansite is appropriate, marking the link as such.

No-Games is the only BB fansite today..and as you can see it is appropriate.


 * If you would even bother to read my post and read the Wikipedia Manual of Style and other documents, you would understand you are in the wrong here. Please stop self-promoting your site. Your opinion on the matter doesn't change Wikipedia's guidelines. Thank you.
 * Enfestid 04:59, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Whatever. I read through the entire subject days ago. I'm not self-promoting. It was added by someone else, and was deleted for no reason. I have the right to add it back because it deserves to be listed. Either way, it won't matter because I'm sure you and the alike are against the site, for personal reasons.

Cold417 05:04, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a place for you to vent about personal issues and get on the proverbial soap box, if you didn't read that yet. Secondly, I have nothing at all against your site. I enjoy it and have followed it for a while as I've been registered on Shallow Bay for a while now. Is there some reason I should be biased against your site? Don't assume negatively. As I have already clearly outlined for you, your site does not need to be linked from the article. Can you give any reasons as to why it should be, other than self-promotion? Does it provide new information pertaining to the band other than that listed in the article? All I see is media at the present moment.
 * Enfestid


 * K, I found proof that NG is NOT the only BB fansite. Here's a Polish one:. Even though it's not in English, it's a site. So NG is not the only Breaking Benjamin site and therefore that's one more presented reason that is wrong. QED.

SouthernBelle Sorry, I hate getting in the middle of things. But... I have a question. We all know NG isn't the only BB fansite. I know other's. But... I still don't get why you can't put it as a link. It's not hurting anything or making it look trashy. If you can clear that up, it'll be much help.


 * First of all, you are calling it "the number one fansite", which is a direct violation of Wikipedia's NPOV policy. Second, there's pretty much nothing there. While you're at it, you might as well link to an otherwise blank page saying "BREAKING BENJAMIN ROX LOL!"59.26.112.124 08:10, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

SouthernBelle You're rather clever. Anyways, well, right now it's on the DL but it has media that most fans would enjoy. Like rare songs, clips, ect. If the way I word the site's name is not fine with you, we can easily negotiate a correct term and stop fighting like school childern, which we all are now. We're more mature and better than that, right?
 * Please read my first response to this. Until all those issues are addressed, it violates Wikipedia guidelines. First and foremost, how do we even know the media is official/cited/not a copyright violation?
 * Enfestid 17:54, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

SouthernBelle Personally, some of the "claims" are rather ridiculous, but I'm going to be the bigger person in the little skirmish we have going on. So, can you break it down (with out the "look at this from the Wikipedia guideline, blah blah blah") and just tell me, what do I have to do to put it as a site? This is just rather silly, personally, considering it's just a link.
 * If you people would even bother to read my responses here you would already know. And if you're not going to abide by Wikipedia guidelines and even educate yourself on what Wikipedia is, then why are you here? Answer: you're only here to promote No Games. If you were going to be the "bigger person" here you would have simply addressed the Wikipedia linking violations instead of continuing to add the link with no reasoning.
 * Enfestid 22:39, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

SouthernBelle So, are you only to promote Shallowbay? You're advertising as much as every other link on there. Why else would you put links on here? And I do know what Wikipedia is, and it's not some godly object, it's just a site. I hate getting in fights, especially when I know it's not worth it. There is a reasoning why you keep getting offended when putting the link on there. More than the Wikipedia guidlines.


 * The reason Shallow Bay is linked to is because it is the band's official site. Official links are to be included. And plus, this is Wikipedia. While on Wikipedia, Wikipedia's guidlines are your god. If you don't like it, don't edit. It's that simple. 59.26.112.124 01:15, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

SouthernBelle It's not that I don't like it, I'm going to keep editing because you keep making such a big deal out of it. I understand that Shallow Bay is the "offical site" now, and you know what, it deserves to be. I have nothing against Shallow Bay, I'm a member (I'm Beautiful Enemy if it makes you feel better). It's just the fact that you're going into such great lengths to keep No Games from being a link. NG is not self promoting, and I'm not vandilisng. If it makes you feel better, I'll ask for Wiki's permission. I'll ask questions on what requires it to be a link. I'll do whatever. This is just getting really immature. By the way, I found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Third_opinion

Mrsgibbs So does that mean if No Games gets more content, like news and a biography of the band or something, then it will be able to be listed as a link? If it has those, then there really isn't a reason for it to not be listed. I'm in no way affiliated with that site, and I have probably only been there 10 times total, but it was still a fan site, and it undeniably had good content that any BB fan would appreciate.
 * If the site has meaningful content that isn't available in the Wikipedia article or on the official website (which is now Shallow Bay, which I did not add, SouthernBelle, but I would have if it wasn't already there because it's considered the official site and because it has constant news updates coming from the band which would classify it as meaningful content not available in the Wikipedia article), then by all means it could be added. But, the issues regarding the content it hosts would also have to be cited to avoid copyright disputes. Wikipedia does not link to illegal materials on the internet, and while I like the No Games site, I have no clue if the material is copyright infringing.
 * SouthernBelle: there is no reason I keep getting "offended" when you post the site there. The reason I keep removing it, however, is the blatant disregard for Wikipedia guidelines and rules. Perhaps if you respected these rules I wouldn't mind at all. But you haven't. You and everyone else who keeps adding the website are blatantly ignoring Wikipedia guidelines. Maybe for you this isn't a big deal, but for Wikipedians like me, it is. I've already told you I like the website. That doesn't mean I'm going to link it if it violates guidelines, however.
 * By all means, however, go to a third-party resolution and get a moderator's stance on the issue. I want it resolved just as much as you do, but all I'm saying here is perhaps you should try to abide by Wikipedia's guidelines when you're linking to the site. As the person with the IP address 59.26.112.124 stated above: "While on Wikipedia, Wikipedia's guidlines are your god. If you don't like it, don't edit. It's that simple."
 * Enfestid 02:34, 24 July 2006 (UTC)


 * If NG had enough content to even warrant it being called a fansite (as opposed to a media directory), along with proof that people still care about it (what it had once is irrelevent, links are about the site's present state), and if we knew if the content was legal, then that most likely would justify it as being linked to. As it stands now, however, there is simply "Next to Nothing" there.
 * User:59.26.112.124

SouthernBelle I cannot tell you if it is copyrighted or not. I didn't upload the material featured on the site. But from the last I heard (I cannot be a direct source.) that the owner of NG had special permission from the holder of the songs, clips, ect. So the material was in complete control of the owner. And if you haven't noticed I haven't edited that page since. I shall wait until it's resolved. And how do you know if it's not cared about still? I know it is. Everyone wants it back. It's still my homepage and I look everyday to see if it's back up. You can't tell me Shallow Bay took a wee "break"? Btw, good use for a song title, props.

Phobia leak
The line about the new album leaking continues to be removed as the band does not want that information in this article. Don't add it again. User:67.140.125.160

Last I checked this was an un-biased site offering information...and that statement seems pretty biased. Is this just another advertisement opportunity for the band? User:24.206.240.22


 * I added signature to the two above entries to avoid confusion. As the response by 24.206.420.22 said, however, Wikipedia is an unbiased site. Now, the entry says nothing of how to obtain the leaked album, other than it has leaked. It used to say where to obtain the leak, and I removed that and inserted a notice saying it's illegal to download the album. I understand the band may not want the information in the article, but it's hardly unworthy of being put in the article. The fact that the band doesn't want it to be here is irrelevant. That would be like having an article on O.J. Simpson without his trial simply because he doesn't want it in the article (to use a bad analogy).
 * It's fact, it happened, and it pertains to the band. There's no reason to remove it until the album is released, as it will be outdated information that's no longer relevant or informative.
 * Enfestid 19:12, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Does that warning really need to be there? I think that's sort of breaking the wikipedian fourth wall. H2P (Yell at me for what I've done) 07:09, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Name Irregularities
I know it's not much, but I figure Wikipedia ought to be as correct as possible. I noticed in the Miscellanea section, the comment on Aaron Fink's dad going on tour with them, his dad's last name has a "c" in the middle, and an "e" on the end, which Aaron's name does not have - "Aaron Fink" vs Gary Fincke". I second checked it on their personal Wikipedia entries, which show to be "Aaron Fink" vs "Gary Fincke". Is this a mistake made in creating one or the other's articles or is it correct?

It was in the bullet: "Aaron Fink pointed out that his father joined the band on tour, and that his father's music collection is what originally sparked his interest in music. Gary Fincke is a professor at Susquehanna University and wrote Amp'd: A Father's Backstage Pass about his travels with the band." LoneKnight

Fink is Aaron's stage name, as he got tired of people mispronouncing his name when he spelled it Fincke. There is something about that mentioned in the book "Amp'd" that his father wrote. User:67.141.169.178

Band name
Why, for some reason, has Lycossucks decided that the information is important enough to be put in the main section of the article? It's funny, because it was never important enough when he kept editing it before.

Secondly, it is a trivial piece of information. How does it need to be in the main body of the article? If it should be, all of the trivia information should be. This is an encyclopedia, not your own little playground for editing. If you want to edit here, you should abide by the rules and standards. It's admirable that you like the band enough to work on their page here. But that doesn't mean you need to keep changing things. You can say it's so people don't ask on Shallowbay.com as much as you want -- but how is it being in the body of the article going to stop people asking any more than it being in the trivia section?

If you want to get in a pissing contest over who's a bigger fan: I have the original EP. I think I did know that there was one because of that issue. I've been a fan before they even released "Polyamorous." I too have been registered on Shallowbay.com pretty much since the inception of the site. Just because I don't post there doesn't mean I haven't been there since the beginning. Please don't question my intent as it represents bad faith on Wikipedia. I didn't just start liking the band overnight and deciding to be a jerk on their Wikipedia page. I'm editing it to fit Wikipedian standards and for it to be a good article. If you don't want the same, don't edit the page -- it's as simple as that. Thank you. Enfestid 14:44, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh fuck that dude. Good standards my ass. Go play your little game somewhere else. Your writing is poor at best *insert your comment on how you got a 94 on you 9th grade research paper here*.

Maybe if you allowed the edits, the article would be somewhat...oh i dont know... good. You think how the band got its name is trivial? HA! You my friend are dim. Look at any other article for a band. What do they include? THE BANDS INCEPTION! Maybe i wouldnt add it to the main paragraph,, if it were allowed in MISC the first thousand times i did such. But NO. you got on you high horse stating "See history" (when its not in there), and "Too lengthy"....TOO LENGTHY? Youve got to be fucking kidding me, its 5 sentences at most, it pales in comparison with other articles around. And you know what? PEOPLE COME HERE TO LEARN! IF IT TAKES 5 SENTENCES TO EXPLAIN SOMETHING...Guess what?...THEY'LL READ IT. Get off you fucking high horse. Any ways, the writing in this page is lackluster, too short, some of the information is wrong (The poly videos were'nt made for different countries, theyre both played around the world retard.), and inportant details are left out (You make it sound like the band changed their name and WHAM!,They were immediately signed, not the case, maybe you should include the line-up changes?, OH NO IT MIGHT GET TOO LENGHTY!). Whatever dude, you're fucking lame, you are not the god of Wikipedia standards. All my edits were within the same standards so fuck off, get a life.

Lycossucks 4:28, 3 September 2006

That which think they own the page

Alright you fucking retard, leave the page alone when people make edits! Your writing is terrible, the article is lackluster, its too short, and some of the information IS JUST WRONG! The Poly video was not realeased in 2 formats for different countries. Both formats were made and released to both countries. I have no clue how you got the idea that they were realeased in different countries, but I can assure you you're incredibly WRONG. Then you go on editing rampages, filtering out thing that are "too long", or "not important". I don't know about you fucktard but how the band got its name is important information. And about it being too long, well thats just stupid. Go look at other bands articles. Do you see, THEY'RE HUGE ENTRIES. Not some little brief faggy paragraph stints. Do you know why that is? BECAUSE PEOPLE COME HERE TO LEARN! Get off you high horse. Your writing sucks, the information is wrong, important facts are left out, and its too brief. You make it sound that after they changed their name they were immediately were signed. THAT IS NOT TRUE. There were many more incarnations of the band, line-up changes (You probably dont know who Bug is), other bands (You probably dont know Strangers With Candy [No not the TV show retard{You probably dont even know the TV show}]), THE EP. Its all left out because you're a fucking weirdo who has nothing better to do than think he owns wikipedia. So next time someone makes a change to your precious article, ask yourself: "Did the person add some important information that maybe some people wont know?" If the answer is "yes"...THEN FUCKING LEAVE IT. DONT REVERT BACK TO YOUR AWFUL WRITING JUST BECAUSE YOU WANT TO BE KNOWN AS THE ALMIGHTY RULER OF THE BREAKING BENJAMIN WIKIPEDIA PAGE

Lycossucks


 * I am not even going to dignify your vulgarity-ridden message with a response. Please read Wikipedian policy guidelines (such as the Wikipedia Manual of Style) in reference to many of your complaints with the article. Most are addressed there.


 * If you're going to be a member of Wikipedia, at least try to abide by the guidelines and rules set forth here. It doesn't take long to read them all, and it would be greatly appreciated by the community. Wikipedia isn't a fan listing for people to modify the page as they see fit. There are guidelines, and they should be respected. Again: if you can't do this and treat the pages for what they are (online encyclopedia articles), why are you even editing them?


 * Furthermore, the part of the article under dispute was already in the main section until it was deemed unwarranted and moved to the Miscellanea section. The whole reason I didn't allow your edits in that section was because they were too lengthy. Trivia sections are supposed to be brief and to-the-point. Why create an entire paragraph regarding the issue? If you would read the Wikipedia Manual of Style and related sections you would know this. But you haven't even attempted to be a member of the community. Instead, you have insisted on resorting to making the page a fan-crufty listing. This is a NPOV site, if you didn't know.


 * And you're right. People come here to learn. They don't need to read redundant, fan-crufty statements. They don't need to wade through garbage to get to substance. And I wasn't the one who wrote a number of the statements in the article, so don't get on me for everything. Perhaps you should do as I suggested and actually read the history to know where the article once stood. If you have differing information, please cite your sources and change any incorrect statements.


 * And again: Please read the Manual of Style and Wikipedian Standards. It would be much appreciated. Thank you.
 * Enfestid 20:46, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

There you go getting on that high horse agian. Spare me next time.

1. I dont care how much youve read over the rules, I dont care how big of a part you are in the "community". You say you're not going to warrant a response then you do, nice that you follow through. I too have read the rules, and I too have practiced them while editing the page's entry.

2. I am treating the pages for what they are. Not once have I added anything vulgar, not of substance, or violated any other rules. Im simply adding useful information for would-be fans. Youre the one acting unjustly. Everytime I edit you take it upon yourself to restore the previous trash that was there, leaving out vital information, that people want to learn about. As I've stated, youre not the ruler of wikipedia, dont act as such, you come off as a fool.

3. Deemed unwarrented: By who? YOU? Oh of course its you, youre the ruler of all things Breaking Benjamin. As Ive stated, again, read any other article about a band. They include their inception, its not just "trivia", its vital information about the bands coming to be. Why create an entire paragraph? the answer could'nt be simpler, BECAUSE THATS WHAT NEED TO BE THERE. I cant explain it all in 2 sentences as you have, or else Im leaving out vital data. Which apparently you have no problem with?

4. Redundant? HA! You're laughable. The only thing I've changed are the bands name, which would only be listed ONCE, if you had let me edit the Misc section as I had originally intended. You're telling me that how the band got its name is "garbage". However, the sentence about the Poly videos (which is incorrect) is "of substance"? No, no, no, you've got them mixed up. Plus, I do believe the TRIVA about the Poly videos is already listed in the Misc section, great overlord of the Breaking Benjamin Wikipedia Page. And I do know the original state of the page, and it's much better than this piss poor excuse for an encyclopedia entry.

Next time spare me from your pseudo intellectual response.

Lycossucks
 * Again: please read the rules and guidelines. Judging from your responses, you have not.
 * And, if you KNEW the original slate of the page, you'd know that I created it. Thanks for the compliment. The majority of what the page currently looks like is not my doing. I've made minor changes, but not a lot. Thanks again for the compliment, though.
 * Enfestid 21:11, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Dont think you made a fool out of me, yes i knew you made the original, maybe it should go back to that, and maybe you should allow people to add important information this time around, instead of just stating "Triva". Whatever, you're just a lowly piece of trash. I understand that you need to think you're in charge of something so I'll just leave you be. Have a nice day refreshing every 5 seconds. lycossucks
 * Wasn't trying to make a fool out of you. Sorry if you got that impression.
 * I don't mind if people want to contribute to the article. I'm all for it. That's the whole point of Wikipedia and the beauty of it. But Wikipedia is also a NPOV (negative point-of-view) website. That means it's not a fanlisting. It's not a place for fan-crufty statements. No further information is needed other than basic information. And trivia information is intended to be brief and to-the-point, which is why it is listed as such. This is all information listed on the Wikipedia pages that you claim to have read.
 * I don't mind people editing pages. I mind a blatant disregard for rules and guidelines. Hence why my edits are taking place. I'm not trying to offend you, and I'm sorry if you feel that way, but I'm going to edit the page to be in compliance with guidelines. Your vulgarity and rudeness is not appreciated, however. Please assume good faith, as stated by the Wikipedia guidelines.
 * Enfestid 21:26, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Lycossucks, Ben wasn't a solo singer. The name came from them playing as Plan 9...not Ben being a solo singer. If you are going to attempt to get the inception of the name included in the article, at least get the information right. User:67.141.169.178

^No mr. 67.141.169.178 youre wrong. Take a look see. "I've been at this for a long time," says Burnley. "It wasn't all that long ago that I survived by playing cover songs in coffeehouses for scraps. I was like an acoustic jukebox, playing for people that ignored me while they ate and drank. It totally sucked. You eventually get to this point where you really want to be signed and make something happen, but you get so frustrated from all the bullshit, that you just don't give a fuck anymore. But of course, that's when you get signed." taken from this article: [link to copyvio website removed] He says I the whole time, never Plan 9. Hes also stated that on rockline that its from his experience as a solo singer, i have the mp3. If youre going to insult me, get your information right. Lycossucks

Lycossucks...you are correct. I checked my info and you are correct. The incident that inspired the name came way before Plan 9 began. Ben was doing an open-mic night at a club and covering Nirvana...I believe that should be added to the article as it is an interesting story. User:67.141.169.178

Thats exactly my point my man, but Enfestid says its "fan crufty" data that doesnt need to be there, when all that stuff about the video games and video versions is included in the main article. ive tried to edit it numerous times and he wont allow it. whatever, you can try to wage the war, im done except for fixing small pieces of info lycossucks
 * Please don't take what I say out of context. I never said that fact was "fan crufty" and I never changed the solo part of the page; someone else did. What I said is we don't need to give a paragraph just to explain that incident. If you want to make it a brief couple of sentences, be my guest. But, the edits given were excessive and came across not as a NPOV article but as a statement made by a fan.
 * Enfestid 03:39, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

No Games Part Two
Now that the site seems to be coming back, it can be added to the links (and fit Wikipedian guidelines) once there is content and information that is noteworthy.
 * Enfestid 17:36, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

You don't believe that this page is noteworthy? You'll not be finding that direct information anywhere else on the web my friend.
 * None of that information was on the site when it was added back. And that "direct information" can be found in the Amp'd book, which is already listed on the article.
 * Enfestid 17:43, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, that information has been there nearly a month now, so you are wrong about that. Also, not all of that information was found in Amp'd, and there is no online availability of that information except no-games.

"Follow" - A Single?
It's not in the table, but wouldn't "Follow" constitute as the final single off We Are Not Alone? Maybe my definition of a single is wrong, but I'm pretty sure that was the final one to be released for radio play. Is a single defined by the release of an individual CD of the song and not by its radio release? Cale 06:13, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Follow wasnt an official single. So Cold, Sooner or Later and the full band version of Rain were the only singles to be officially released. Follow was played only a couple isolated times across the country on satellite radio stations mostly, and was never formally released. --Lycossucks 01:42, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

A single is a song that's made into a music video, just to clear that up ;)Ruthless Xero 04:03, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Anxiety
On the radio, the drummer from Godsmack said BB is out of the tour because the lead singer kept getting anxiety attacks and even had to call an ambulance at one show. I think they got replaced by a band called Soil but I wasn't really paying attention. 72.45.1.19 14:01, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

SOiL is their replacement on the tour. The "anxiety attack" report has not be confirmed by the band's website, the only official explination is illness in the band, possibly an inner ear infection for lead singer Ben Burnley.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was true. Ben does have phobias and stuff. either way, SOiL's also a good band.Itachi1452 18:08, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

wow..panic attacks? i know he's scared of planes anyway. it kinda makes them more beleivable though =] not that im happy he gets scared or anything

Alternative metal
It was redirecting to metal not Alternative metal, changed on Jan 02, 2006. Josewiki 03:10, 3 January 2007 (UTC) Josewiki

Protection
I've decided that there should be a stop to the changing of the amount of time that Breathe has spent on the US Mainstream Rock charts. I've changed it three times today and a number of times in the past months. I threw up the protection tag so that the random IP address from changing this. Post the discussion here instead of just removing it please. Imasleepviking 02:33, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The protection tags don't actually confer any protection by themselves; you need an admin to actually set the protection level. Speaking as one, I personally don't think that the vandalism is frequent enough, relatively speaking, to warrant protection yet (compare to the page histories of other pages that have been recently semi-protected), but you could always try at WP:RFPP if the situation worsens. I'll also keep this page on my watchlist. — TKD::Talk 03:57, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Given that the steady stream is still continuing, I've decided to semi-protect the article temporarily. — TKD::Talk 01:57, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Fix "Breath." Its only been #1 for 4 weeks. Also, check your sources before you post info. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.180.230.247 (talk • contribs)


 * I think I now see the problem. I did my own research just now, and the number currently there, taken from the billboard.com website, actually represents the number of weeks on the chart (see here), not the number of weeks at the current position (otherwise, the chart would be inconsistent with itself). So, this is actually a question of which number is more appropriate, or whether it belongs at all. I have no strong opinion here, except that it does seem a bit on the overly detailed side to me, and that, if it does stay, it does indeed need clarification and a citation. My apologies to all for not recognizing the actual nature of the situation earlier; I've had to deal with far too many cases of "sneaky" numbers-changing without explanation in the past. — TKD::Talk 22:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok thats fine dude, i was just kinda wondering... :)

WHAT????
Ok, first why is the page locked? Second, Breath has only been #1 for 4 weeks, not 13. The actual vandalism here is putting incorrect information and then locking the page. Someone either unlock the page or fix the current information. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.180.230.247 (talk • contribs)


 * Responding above to keep discussion centralized. — TKD::Talk 22:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Breaking Benjamin's logo
i noticed there was no mention of there logo (as far as i could see anyway) iv made an image of it but i wasn't sure were the best place to put would be or how to do it so i thought id link it from my photobucket here (1000x1000 in .png format) its shown on all the album covers, it appers to be 4 interlocking B's

CAN Top 33?
Should this "chart" even be listed? It's just some random guy's countdown of his favorite music. Also, Phase and Home were never singles.

Filmography
The more I look at the filmography section, the more it's getting out of hand. It's really unencyclopedic in style and adds nothing to the article at all. I'll allow an exception in prominant cases such as in a couple of movies, but outside of that it really needs to go. Imaslee pviking  ( talk ) 23:48, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

How exactly can you have post-grunge and not alternative rock?
Alternative metal is too heavy to be post-grunge and in order to be post-grunge you actually have to be an alternative rock band. You can't have it on its own. Either alternative rock needs to be added, or post-grunge should be deleted. James25402 18:40, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

sorry, but i disagree. post-grunge derives from alternative rock, yes. but alternative rock isn't necessary. for example, it's like instead of putting in "alternative metal", you instead put alternative rock, then heavy metal. waste of time. Itachi1452 00:20, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

POV line fixed
"Opposed to returning to the towns where he "postponed" shows, no dates in any of the states of canceled shows have been posted. They love their fans enough to avoid the ones they let down."

I fixed that line to make it more NPOV Bliks 23:56, 16 September 2007 (UTC)