Talk:Brewing in Nebraska

Redirecting the page
. I am surprised that you reverted my addition of sources and changed the page into a redirect. The sources may not be peer reviewed scholarly papers, but your characterisation of them as unreliable is unreasonable. They are perfectly fine for this simple article which is neither a political controversy nor quantum string theory. The BCCA in particular is just the kind of organisation that I would expect to be knowledgeable about breweries and they produce a professional looking monthly magazine. I don't see the problem with referencing their list, surely to goodness the fact that the breweries have featured on someone elses list is an indication of the notability of the list. On the Beer Me! site, for some of the individual entries (see for instance Nebraska Brewing Company) they give references to news articles which in some cases might be enough to justify a stand alone article, let alone just an entry in a list.

This whole issue of the existence of lists of breweries was thrashed out at Articles for deletion/List of breweries in Connecticut (along with numerous other brewery list articles). That AFD was closed as snow keep and their were two things that came out of that. Firstly, all these articles are to be considered as part of List of breweries in the United States (which is no more than a list of lists) and secondly that WP:CSC applies, that is, the list can be comprehensive. I held off promoting this AFC to mainspace until that AFD had closed. That is, I waited for the outcome of the AFD and accepted it. I think you should accept it too and stop trying to delete by redirect. AFD it if you must, but given the past AFDs, I think we know what the outcome will be.

On the question of the links to external sites, I don't think they were intended as spam links. I think the editor who put them in was just following an established pattern. I am fine with that column of the table being removed, agree with it even, but its existence is really not sufficient justification for blanking out the whole page.  Spinning Spark  06:59, 19 February 2014 (UTC)


 * I hear where you are coming from, and I don't think anymore that these lists are unreasonable. Instead, there needs to be some reasonable inclusion criteria and individual evidence of notability for each entry (even if not a bluelink). You are right that WP:CSC gives potential options for lists of non-notable items. The problem is that in this case it is directly overruled by WP:NOTDIRECTORY. Heck, the policy gives restaurants of a certain type in a certain geographic location as a prime example of a WP:NOTDIRECTORY violation. IronGargoyle (talk) 12:42, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
 * WP:CSC says quite plainly that individual evidence of notability may not be required. That is one way of selecting for a list, but not the only way.  The AFD acceptance of the WP:CSC rationale for keep to my mind means that the AFD thought that a list of breweries in a geographical area would be a small enough list that it could be made complete.  The same rationale does not apply to the much larger group of restaurants.  Nor to shoe shops or bars.  Nor even to doctors or dentists.
 * You are misreading the example in WP:NOTDIRECTORY. It does not give "restaurants in city x" as an example of an unacceptable directory.  Rather it gives "restaurants specializing in x in city y" as an example of an unacceptable cross-categorization.  Cross-categorization is a different issue from directories and is aimed at articles like Judaism and bus stops (I realise that that example was not a list article).  Spinning  Spark  13:39, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Breweries are specializing in beer (in state X), ergo the applicability of the example in WP:NOTDIRECTORY. Maybe the references are reliable, but it seems odd to say that is doesn't violate WP:NOTDIRECTORY when the only references are themselves directories. IronGargoyle (talk) 14:17, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
 * "Breweries specialize in beer" is as trivial and silly a truism as saying "restaurants specialise in food". In any case, the time to put forward that argument was during the AFDs of the dozens of other lists of breweries you nominated.  In the meantime, we now have a clear community consensus on this from the Connecticut AFD to keep such articles.  I think it is time to restore this page.  Spinning  Spark  15:13, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

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