Talk:Brian O'Neill (High-King of Ireland)

High King of Ireland
Like Edward Bruce later, he was not in any real sense High King of Ireland. It was a self-proclaimed revival of a title which had effectively ended at the Treaty of Windsor 1175 following the Norman invasion of Ireland, and he never held the island. --81.129.142.136 (talk) 08:05, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Same Brian O'Neill as was beaten by Clan Connell few years before trying to subjugate Tyrconnell? King, Can't even claim King of Ulster.

Technically, he did have the support of the 2 other most powerful kings in Ireland, so if you were another king you would be pretty foolish to challenge him. The main reason he lost the Battle of Druim Dearg was because he lost the support of Munster when the previous king died. Furthermore, to the point of him failing to defeat Tyrconnel, the O'Donnels knew they were surrounded by enemies at this point and had no choice but to surrender. Brian severely weakend the Norman's in Ireland, and this paved the way for more attacks, such as Fineen McCarthy at the Battle of Callan, and eventually the sort of knockout blow in driving the English to the Pale, Edward Bruce. Iamdmonah (talk) 12:55, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Just to point out he never claimed to be king of Ulster and no member of the Northern Ui Neill ever did until Aedh Remar in the early 14th century. Ailech and Ulaid were two separate over-kingdoms who were the greatest of rivals for centuries until the Normans defeated Ulaid and paving the way for the Northern Ui Neill to make headroads into it in the years after the Bruce invasion. Mabuska (talk) 20:21, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

The Ulaid were already fairly weak by the time the Norman's came around- they had been defeated by the Northern Uí Néill in 1003, and were then forced to submit to Brian Boru shortly afterwards- which was followed by repeated raids by the Northern Uí Néill for several years- followed by Attacks by Magnus Barelegs, King of Norway (although they managed to ambush and kill him). The Normans didnt really defeat them- they were already in a bit of a shambles by the time they came around. Iamdmonah (talk) 15:32, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Edit issues
Just a quick highlight of some of the main problems with your recent edits Iamdmonah.

Mabuska (talk) 16:09, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * You reverted edits made based on the Wikipedia policy of Use English . A policy that despite being made aware of and acknowledging you are ignoring.
 * There is no need to provide the Irish for Rory O'Connor after his name or anyone else who already has an article where it is mentioned. The same for places. His daughter Nuala doesn't have an article so I added the Irish form of her surname in brackets after her name. I didn't need to and maybe we should remove it altogether?
 * Your edits contain poor grammar and spelling as well as highly redundant info that you claim sets the scene but just adds in a lot of nonsense not directly related to the topic of this article.
 * Re-adding information backed with up with poor non-academic sources such as, which presents contested theories as facts such as the location of the battle of Caimerge.
 * Your edits are also showing bias including your selective reverts such as . What are your reasons for removing this? Its directly related to Brian as we are briefly discussing his son, kin and the successors of the kingship that he held? Is it because his O'Neill rivals were aided by the Normans? Also why remove ? This is highly relevant to Brian and as stated in my edit summary I will add the page number of the source later. Is it because you don't like the fact Brian who died fighting the Earldom of Ulster was possibly installed by its Norman earl?
 * Your reverts are careless. Your eagerness to simply revert stuff even reverted the full stop I put at the end of the sentence of the "In poetry" section. Are we trying to enforce poor grammar?
 * The removal of accurately academically sourced material.
 * Your edits "arguably the greatest High King of Ireland to ever live" is highly subjective and peacock
 * Your edits and poorly done part reverts are also questionably WP:POINTY.

These claims are mostly nonsense from my point of view, thanks for the lecture though. And my apologies for accidentally removing your full stop and other mistakes I supposedly made. I am the only person who has made any major expansion to this page in quite a while so I would appreciate it I could be supported by my fellow editors in trying to expand this page. Iamdmonah (talk) 18:55, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Actually they aren't mostly nonsense. Adding lots of needless and irrelevant information to expand an article is hardly making it better. An article with less info that is reliably sourced with relevant information is worth more than a long waffle of irrelevant info.
 * If you followed guidelines and stopped removing reliable academically sourced info that you don't agree with then maybe you could get more support. But when your edits have major flaws they will be pointed out and fixed/rectified. Mabuska (talk) 19:38, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * If you really want to improve the article then add in the page numbers you use from Foster for the information you cite to it. That'd allow for proper scrutiny and attribution to verify the information you add. Mabuska (talk) 19:42, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I struck my last comment as it turns out the information you added seems to almost all come from that unreliable webpage source. Having said if you use a book source please add page numbers, it greatly helps. Mabuska (talk) 23:10, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Explain something to me. You have consistently tagged me for 'peacocking' and using my opinions in sources, but in the segment 'Battle of Down and Death', you said the following at the end:

"Brian's head was cut off and sent to Henry III of England, showing how dangerous his coalition was thought to be."

I don't really understand how this is not opinion based, but edits are? I know there probably is some explanation in the wikipedia guidelines but in only learning here so would you mind explaining? Iamdmonah (talk) 17:13, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
 * You are guilty of WP:PEACOCK as you are adding in things into additions that your "sources" don't state. The statement you quote I added quite specifically has a citation at the end of it which backs what is said. The difference in what is WP:PEACOCK and not is whether it is actually in an academic reliable source or not. Mabuska (talk) 19:38, 16 June 2020 (UTC)