Talk:Brian Wilson/Archive 1

Report issued at ANI for problem user 12.216.*.*
I have filed a report at the administrator notice board over the recent problems with this article vis-a-vis the anon user with the drifting IP address in the range 12.216.*.* I have requested that this page be semiprotected and that a range block be issued for the user in question in the interest of stoping the problems associated with this page. If you have any comments, either in support of or in opposition to either of these two proposals, please go to WP:ANI. --Jayron 32 06:22, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Please note that is user has now registered as User:Dudesurf69, and therefore needs to be checked for continuous vandalism, which he has already done to my own page. It would be helpful if this user obtained some form of intelligence to realise that this has nothing to with 'jealousy'. It's very hard to be jealous of people who are this obnoxious. Hardylane 14:30, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


 * BTW: that one has been indef blocked - compulsion finds expulsion. Shenme 03:32, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

New request for semiprotection issued at ANI due to recent return of vandal here
It looks like the same guy is back blanking sections of this talk page. I have requested semiprotection at this page to stop this. If you would like to comment, please go to: Semiprotection needed at Brian Wilson and Talk:Brian Wilson Thanks. --Jayron32| talk | contribs 02:48, 13 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Next up on the world tour, La Quinta Inns! (newest to older)
 * 12.43.85.2          LA QUINTA INNS   LA-QUINT45-85-0    12.43.85.0 - 12.43.85.63
 * 12.216.104.157  Mediacom Communications Corp   MEDIACOMCC-12-216-96-0-DES-MOINES-IA    12.216.96.0 - 12.216.111.255
 * 12.217.28.121    Mediacom Communications Corp   MEDIACOMCC-12-217-24-0-MOLINE-IL    12.217.24.0 - 12.217.31.255
 * 12.216.106.62    Mediacom Communications Corp   MEDIACOMCC-12-216-96-0-DES-MOINES-IA    12.216.96.0 - 12.216.111.255
 * All of these are  AT&T WorldNet Services ATT    12.0.0.0 - 12.255.255.255
 * But I think that the AIV people will tell you that the frequency and rate of vandalism figures in, and that this nuisance is just that. I put pages like this on my watchlist - All this guy is doing is getting more people to put it on their's. Shenme 02:58, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Re ranking importance to 'Top'
The importance Brian Wilson's wikipedia article is at the very least a 'High', if not a 'Top'. He is a member of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame who wrote and co-wrote numerous classic songs that sold tens of millions of copies and influenced the Beatles, by Paul's admission, to create 'Sgt. Pepper.' No way can it be considered a mid. Jusdafax (talk) 07:42, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

After further consideration I am bumping the 'importance' of Brian Wilson to 'Top'. He and The Beach Boys were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame at the same time as the Beatles and Bob Dylan. For rock music, that is as good as it gets, and any objective view of the matter has to begin right there. Jusdafax (talk) 19:49, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Psychotropic drugs
I was disturbed to see 'Landy had given Wilson high doses of psychotropic drugs, which over time cause significant neurological damage' written into the article without a source or mention of WHAT psychotropic drugs, as many psychotropics display absolutely no lasting physical effects.


 * Maybe it would be appropriate to say instead that the drugs *did* cause neurological damage (provided a source exists...though it seems fairly plain if you compare his speech and mannerisms before and after the treatment...one could be forgiven for thinking he'd had a stroke), which makes the statement more about the actual drugs he was given as opposed to a broad statement about psychotropics in general. Domino42 13:22, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I was also quite bothered by it. Does anyone know WHAT drugs allegedly did the damage? -georgiabiker

Murry Wilson
I'm surprised there's no mention of Murry Wilson in this article Tarcieri 09:44, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I added some background on Brian Wilson's deafness, based on what Brian Wilson said in this interview: However, substantially more should be added, particularly regarding Brian taking control of production, the Help Me Rhonda tape, and him as a potential influence in Brian Wilson's mental breakdown, which seems to be terribly underdocumented. Tarcieri 10:01, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Copyright violation
copyright violation? (See bottom of article)


 * Good catch! It's from http://www.brianwilson.com/brian/ and is definitely copyrighted. Thanks! -- April 19:43 Sep 6, 2002 (UCT)

Charles Manson
His relationship to Charles Manson should be mentioned. Redwolf24 18:42, 14 July 2005 (UTC)


 * That would be Dennis Wilson, not Brian. --165.254.107.2 17:18, 12 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Actually, BW worked with CW on producing a Charles Manson album without Dennis Wilson present.

there's no proof to that


 * Actually, there is: - scroll down until you get to untitled Charles Manson album, and read all about it. MookieZ 03:08, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

"Things Are Changing For The Better"
Re: my most recent edit. Wilson's song produced by Phil Spector *was* for The Blossoms. The song in question, Things Are Changing For The Better, was a rewrite of the earlier song Don't Hurt My Little Sister. Spector produced the backing track, and lyricist Jerry Riopelle produced the Blossoms' vocal for Philles, Spector's record label. Both Jay And The Americans and The Supremes did also record versions shortly thereafter for the same equal opportunity campaign, using the same backing track, but The Blossoms' version was the first, and the only one with the active involvement of any of the songwriters or Philles records. Stealth Munchkin 09:36, 6 Oct 2005 (UTC)

Reply: OK, so how about mentioning their versions in the article, as an afterthought? 70.189.195.127 04:31, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

"Beautiful": POV?
Most pages about pop artists have their articles organized by phase of their life to enhance readability. Can we do this? Also near the end of the article there is a reference to a "beautiful" song that was released for Katrina releif -- seems that "beautiful" violates neutrality as it is a subjective opinion - was it criticly acclaimed? was it popular? Did anybody endorse it? If we have those, then we can mention that instead of calling it beautiful. Thomasdelbert 14:25, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Wow, that's pretty technical, but ok. Is the song you're discussing Walking Down the Path of Life?

Censorship
There's a part about his autobiography that reads "Understandably, it was taken out of print." Isn't there a better way to word that that doesn't sound so pro-censorship?

This article is about Brian Wilson, why would anyone take that it's pro-censorship? Anyways, it really is understandable, have you read it?

Image removal
Question: Why does a Bot come along and remove perfectly acceptable images? Hardylane 02:15, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Spector collaborations
Question: It the opening paragraphs it states that Brian only collide with Spector on that one song. What about the song/s "then I kissed her"/"then he kissed me?" The later being done by the Crystals? Both being written in part by Spector. electronic.mayhem 05:45, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Brian's version wasn't a collaboration, it was merely a cover. Mattbrundage 15:37, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Headings
I've added headings to the article to make it more readable -- feel free to come up with better ones if you want. Mattbrundage 15:37, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Intro
Brian was NOT the lead singer on most songs. In fact, Mike Love usually filled that role. However, on songs that were strictly Brian's compositions, he generally sang lead, unless otherwise noted.

Bipolar disorder
I am not sure this is the correct diagnosis. Even in the Larry King interview both Brian and his wife talk about it being schizoaffective disorder which is a psychotic disorder that has a lot in common with schizophrenia. It would be nice to see the article reflect this, since it is qualatatively a different mental illness than jsut bipolar disorder. --Hobbesq 17:10, 3 July 2006 (UTC) Thomas

South Park reference
In the South Park movie, there was a line about the Canadian government "apologizing" for Brian Wilson. Since Wilson is not Canadian, this does not make much sense. Does anyone know what they were talking about? Or was it just a random stupid joke? (South Park is known for that, but usually there's at least some relevance to their jokes.) --Lurlock 20:16, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Oops, my bad. It was Bryan Adams they were talking about.  Never mind.  --Lurlock 13:23, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Looking for a picture
I know this isn't the best place to be asking for something like this, but I am desperate. I am looking for a picture of Brian Wilson with him sitting in front of a piano like he is playing it but he is facing the camera (off to the side). I am doing a presentation on him and this picture is perfect for a visual aid. I have a small version of the picture in the Pet Sounds 40th Anniversary CD set, but it is much too small to use. The picture is on the back of the inserted booklet (in the upper left hand corner). If anyone knows where I can find a copy of this picture online and could let me know, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks - Blake Edwards (XXXXXXXXXXXXX@XXXXXXXXX)
 * Blake try your luck on asking someone on the official Brian Wilson message board at --220.236.172.60 16:17, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Blake, check your email ;-) -- Mattbrundage 02:26, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Recent events
Is it really necessary to detail so many of the shows Brian has played in the last two months? Should that be part of an encylopedic article? piper108 17:47, 16 December 2006 (UTC) Is it irrelevent? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.2.9.145 (talk) 20:20, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

NPOV
Anybody have any citation for this claim: "he is now acknowledged as one of the most significant and innovative musicians and composers of 20th century popular music." 207.34.120.71 16:55, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Well I think it's pretty clear that he is. Just look at all the musicians that admire and respect him for what he has done. Sir Paul McCartney, Elton John, Eric Clapton, Elvis Costello, Leonard Bernstein, Burt Bacharach, Stevie Wonder, Neil Young, Bob Dylan, Pete Townsend, Tom Petty, John Cale, Ginger Baker, Jack Bruce, David Crosby, Graham Nash, Linda Ronstadt, Jimmy Webb, Lindsey Buckingham, Sir George Martin and the list goes on. If you can't understand why he's "one of the most significant and innovative musicians and composers of 20th century popular music" then you should try and read more about him. He not only wrote and sung on most of The Beach Boys songs, but he arranged and produced the songs too. And not only was he producing and writing Beach Boys songs, he was also writing many songs for outside artists too, like Jan And Dean, Ron Wilson, The Honeys, American Spring, Glenn Campbell etc... Add to the fact that he wrote, arranged, produced and sung on many of the Beach Boys hit songs including "Good Vibrations", "Wouldn't It Be Nice", "I Get Around", "Help Me, Rhonda", "Do It Again", "Surfin Safari", "Surfin USA", "Surfer Girl", "California Girls", "God Only Knows", "Sloop John B", "Little Deuce Coupe", "Fun Fun Fun", "Dance Dance Dance", "Dont Worry Baby", "When I Grow Up To Be A Man", "Wendy" etc.. etc.. Surely you can see that he's one of the most important composers/musicians of 20th century popular music. I mean after all, in popular music is there many bigger bands than The Beach Boys? Quite frankly, no (You could argue one or two - ie: The Beatles - but thats about it) And Brian did do the majority of The Beach Boys work when they were at their most popular and also, try and name one other person whos been just as or more successful than Brian Wilson in popular music and they do all the writing, arranging, producing, singing and playing on many songs including over 30 top 20 singles. And he has been involved on over 25 Beach Boys albums, and now hes released over 10 of his own solo albums. So frankly I dont believe that that claim needs a citation. --220.236.172.60 16:08, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * You are kidding, right? The above is exactlt what wp:or is all about. Just stick to providing sources, especially for claims as grandeous as this. Cheers, --Tom 03:11, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Do we need a citation to state "the sun rises in the East and sets in the West?" Many things are established as fact because it is basic knowledge. Demanding a citation that Brian Wilson "is now acknowledged as one of the most significant and innovative musicians and composers of 20th century popular music" is like demanding a citation for where the Sun rises and sets. The citations are there, nonetheless. I believe that Rolling Stone selected him as the most influential composer of the 20th Century. Common sense must rule in the end. -- Elaich 05:48, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Please, enough with the drama. Equating Wilson's musical stature to the Sun rising?? Just provide sources that say he is XZY and then include it. To evaluate his carrer and then to say that he is xzy is original research and POV. Our job is not to use common sense but to act like hyraxes and report already established, reliably sourced, material. Thanks, --Tom 14:21, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I think thats one problem with Wikipedia among many. Because there might not be a citation that states "Brian is one of the most important composers of the 20th century", but he clearly is. I mean what if somebody famous wanted to edit their page and put in their facts like their date of birth for example, and yet Wikipedia says "citation please", what are they supposed to do, upload a copy of their birth certificate? I might be being overdramatic but I believe I do have a point. I mean I can understand having a citation for a statement that said, for example, "Brian Wilson once stated that 'I wanted to make music from a very early age'". Yes, that definately needs a citation or even just stating something like "Brian Wilson is admired by people such as Rivers Cuomo, Elvis Costello and Paul McCartney". Yes that would need a citation, but for something so obvious to demand a citation is stupid. You might as well have a citation after every fact. I'll give you an example for this page:

"In 1965, Wilson felt he could not play live with the band as well as write new material (citation needed); so Glen Campbell, a regular session musician, replaced Wilson for three months of tours before quitting to pursue a solo career(citation needed). Bruce Johnston then joined the band (citation needed). Wilson steered the group to huge success around the world(citation needed) and they scored a string of international hits between 1962 and 1967, including pop classics such as "Surfin' USA," "Fun, Fun, Fun"," "I Get Around," "Help Me Rhonda," "California Girls," "Wouldn't It Be Nice," "Good Vibrations," and "Heroes and Villains." He also produced records for other artists, including Glen Campbell and the Honeys(citation needed), but with nowhere near the success he had with the Beach Boys. He also co-wrote many of the biggest hits for Jan and Dean during this period."(citation needed)Sahafan 15:43, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


 * And the Beatles had George Martin as producer, Brian Wilson was just him. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.153.197.233 (talk) 01:32, 22 February 2007 (UTC).

Re: "Because there might not be a citation that states 'Brian is one of the most important composers of the 20th century', but he clearly is.":

How is he clearly this? If you have no citation, just state whatever facts lead you to this conclusion and leave off the conclusion. "One of the most" is pretty vague, of course. Is he the tenth most important? The one-hundreth most important? The one-millionth most important? I think you'd be hard pressed to make a case that his significance extends much beyond his time (the early to mid sixties) and milieu (rock and roll). It seems to me absurd to suggest he can hold a candle to, say, Richard Rodgers, George Gershwin, Burt Bacharach, or Stephen Sondheim, to say nothing of Bela Bartok, Dimitri Shostakovich, Igor Stravinsky, and so on.TheScotch 09:56, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

It may seem absurd to you, but not to the redoubtable Elvis Costello, who said, "Brian Wilson follows a line of great pop composers from George Gershwin to Cole Porter to Burt Bachrach to him [Wilson]." This may not be the exact quote, but you can hear/watch Costello's remarks on the DVD packaged with the SMiLE album. Seduisant 15:33, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Costello is entitled to his opinion, and if he did say that, you can put that he said it in the article, but you do need the "exact quote". Can we assume then that sahafan meant to imply the qualification "pop"? I hope so. "Absurd" is too strong a word--sorry about that--, but I think we can reasonably say that Wilson was operating in a more limited sphere than the very best of the twentieth-century's Broadway composers. (I'm excluding Irving Berlin because Berlin apparently required the services of uncredited co-composers.)


 * The Bacharach comparison interests me more. I was just listening to Pet Sounds the other day. Its liner notes repeatedly invoked the Beatles, but I didn't hear much that reminded me of the Beatles. To a large extent the record simply sounded like the Beach Boys, which is not too surprising, but the best bits reminded me of Burt Bacharach, that is to say, to the extent Wilson was able to transcend the Beach Boys on this recording he was moving into Bacharach territory. Bacharach, however, is always in Bacharach territory, and he goes further than Wilson--farther, deeper, with more authority and more control, and, especially, with more compositional technique.


 * Costello, by the way, seems to have a thing for the sixties. All of his musical opinions--all those I've encountered, that is--are biased--tainted I'd say--in this regard.TheScotch 05:35, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm having second thoughts about my first sentence ("...if he did say that, you can put that he said it in the article"). If "Costello's remarks [are] on the DVD packaged with the SMiLE album," then quoting them here is equivalent to quoting book-jacket blurbs here. No matter how sincere Costello might have been, "packaged" in this way his "remarks" are functionally advertisement. TheScotch 09:13, 18 August 2007 (UTC)


 * That's not quite it. The quote (I believe) is from Beautiful Dreamer, a legitimate documentary by David Leaf (who is, admittedly, a friend of Brian's) which first aired on Showtime. Later on, it was packaged together with a DVD of a live version of Smile, not with the Smile album itself. MookieZ 04:53, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

This argument is absurd. User: 220.236.172.60 made the point perfectly in his first comment to this section. Wilson is widely acknowledged as "one of the most significant and innovative musicians and composers of 20th century popular music." Oh, and I like the way that, after User: 220.236.172.60 cited the endorsements of "Sir Paul McCartney, [Sir] Elton John, Eric Clapton, Elvis Costello, Leonard Bernstein, Burt Bacharach, Stevie Wonder, Neil Young, Bob Dylan, Pete Townsend[sic], Tom Petty, John Cale, Ginger Baker, Jack Bruce, David Crosby, Graham Nash, Linda Ronstadt, Jimmy Webb, Lindsey Buckingham, Sir George Martin", User:TheScotch seized on Elvis Costello. "Biased"? "Tainted"?!? That's just bizarre. Worse, it is absolutely illegitimate and intellectually dishonest to write off his comments as "advertisement". In all seriousness, shame on you.

There is room on Wikipedia for common sense. NPOV and sources are indispensable, but it is more important that a Wikipedia article be informative than well-sourced. When all these songwriters are on record as praising Wilson, you have to figure it's okay to just go ahead and believe them. --63.25.21.135 (talk) 03:38, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand
I can't understand this NPOV. I mean how can you prove something such as Brian Wilson is "acknowledged as one of the most significant and innovative musicians and composers of 20th century popular music." Or even put Burt Bacharach, Paul McCartney or whoever you want to. I mean if you find a music book (NOT based exclusively on Brian or The Beach Boys) that backs that quote up, then isn't it still the point of view of the author? I mean it doesn't mean its right. Just as if a book says the exact same thing about Beethoven. It doesn't mean just because its written in a book that its right, I mean I could write a book and say "Dave Grohl is the greatest musician of all time" but it doesn't mean that he is. My point is that everything is based on opinion. And to be honest I value people such as Paul McCartney ("He's one of your [meaning America's] great geniuses" (stated at his induction of Brian into the songwriting hall of fame - can be found on "Brian Wilson On Tour" DVD) and countless other opinions from people, than some crap music book stating the same thing. I guess the only real thing you can look at is a) the impact the person had on other people at the top in that field because THEY would (or atleast should) have more of an idea of if Brian is innovative etc.. than most people and b) Record sales, #1 hits etc.. but then again there is plenty of instances in various artforms where the person is not acknowledged to be important until much later after they have created a work. And anbody who wants to argue with me, please show me a citation that is NOT biased (ie: impossible) that Beethoven is one of the most significant composers of all time. In conclusion, there is no such thing (when it comes to saying "this person is one of the best or one of the most important at their field") as a neutral point of view. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.236.192.51 (talk) 09:04, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Re: "I mean if you find a music book (NOT based exclusively on Brian or The Beach Boys) that backs that quote up, then isn't it still the point of view of the author?":


 * The assertion that Wilson is wonderful is then merely the point of view of the author, but the assertion that the author holds that view (or claims to) is fact. If the author is notable, then that he holds that view may be notable too, although in my opinion in most cases it probably isn't all that notable, and I think this sort of quoting should be used sparingly, if at all, in wikipedia articles. It's still lots better than some anonymous wikipedia editor's gratuitous unattributed opinion.


 * Re: "...I mean I could write a book and say 'Dave Grohl is the greatest musician of all time' but it doesn't mean that he is.":


 * You could, but whether you could get that book published (other than in the vanity press) is another matter.


 * Because persons such as McCartney seem to have, for no clear reason, legions of fetishists making highly inflated claims for them, we have to be especially wary about them here. There's plenty of opinion involved when you compare, say, Mozart to Beethoven, but there really isn't when you compare McCartney as a composer--in contradistinction to celebrity--to Beethoven. Beethoven, for example, could actually read and write music, orchestrate, play an instrument at a virtuoso level, and compose contrapuntally. That much doesn't distinguish him from lots and lots of lesser composers, but it certainly distinguishes him from McCartney.TheScotch 11:09, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not really that clued up about music (ie: I haven't studied it or anything) but Wilson can compose contrapuntally... He can play lots of instruments (eg: piano, harmonica, bass guitar, drums etc.. He could orchestrate.. And he can compose music too (just as McCartney can - but this is about Wilson not McCartney of course)... And let me ask you this, do you believe that the more complex a composition the greater it is? I certainly don't. Music is all about the feeling it gives to listeners and a good musician tries to find a way (perhaps unknowingly) to move the listener. Technicality doesn't mean anything when it comes to art. In Maths yes. In music no. Technically somebody might be able to compose more complex songs but that doesn't mean that they are better.


 * But all of the above is irrelevant, because it is about the significance of Wilson and judging someone on technical details has nothing to do with whether or not they are significant. Now can you explain to me (and I really mean this, because I don't understand), how does one judge somebody's significance? Cause I certainly haven't a BLOODY clue because of course you have to refernce it but it seems that every reference for something like this seems to be irrelevant. What sort of CREDIBLE reference would you use to judge somebody's significance?


 * And with the point about his innovation, again how do you cite a reference for that? My point is you CAN'T seem to reference something like this, because everything is opinion isn't it and what one deems as "innovative"?

We need a new headline image
The image depicting Wilson w/ his fingers in his mouth is just silly. It does not give an accurate representation of who Brian Wilson was. All I get from the picture is that Brian Wilson may be senile now. An image from his prime years (1963-1967) would be most fitting, and I think all would agree. Granted, it probably would be tough to find a free image from that era... However, I am advocating removal of this image. No image would be better than this. - tbone (talk) 23:03, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. Brian is a nice good-looking man, but in this pic he is looking silly. I wish the pic from All Music Guide was free... And where are all those fans with cameras... --Betty kerner (talk) 00:34, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I would say a pic of Brian doing something silly (i.e., just a simple "razzberry", like the back of Lennon's Walls and Bridges) would be cool, because Brian is a silly, child-like kind of guy at times. HOW-the-fuck-ever, this picture is inappropriate and disgusting, because of the (however unintended) connotation of "fishhooking", a recent development in the world of hard-core, sadistic/misogynistic, fellatio-oriented porn.
 * And no, I don't just have a dirty mind. Google it.  It's out there.
 * I DON'T want to think about Brian Wilson in this regard. Please.
 * --63.25.21.135 (talk) 03:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Here's a shot of Brian that I took in January 2007. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Brian_Wilson_Jan_2007.jpg Feel free to replace the current one with this one if appropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard King (talk • contribs) 03:39, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

What happened to the article on the autobio?
Why is there no mention of the bogus autobiography? (Wouldn't It Be Nice -- My Own Story) Just because it was bad is no reason to censor all mention of it -- in fact, it's probably important to continue to expose it for the hack job it is! The article on it is gone, and there's no mention of it in this article on Brian Wilson. But even now, people are finding it at used bookstores and taking it seriously. Even now, there's a Wikipedia article that quotes from it extensively ("'Til I Die"). Perhaps if the person who had wrote that article had known the truth about the book, he would have written a better article. --63.25.21.135 (talk) 04:12, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Then there is the disturbing fact that much of the Beach Boys Wikipedia article itself is based on the (to use your term) bogus autobiography. I'm afraid that as of now much of it needs a major revamp also. Jusdafax (talk) 12:37, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Photo
I think we should get something a bit more "normal" for the main BW photo on this page. DiggyG (talk) 20:25, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Mental illness
Aren't we putting the cart before the horse? Who sees "the cancellation of SmiLe" as a cause for mental illness? The cancellation was a RESULT of it, not a cause. Birth of his first child? Somebody has edited this article to conform with the current buzz, not the facts. -- Elaich   talk 03:12, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Exactly, Elaich. Plus since when a "mild combination of antidepressants" is a treatment for any psychiatric disorder involving severe psychosis, as with the schizoaffective disoders, what clearly has been the diagnosis for Wilson? This article is expurgated in a very dishonest way. Brian wilson was, broadly speaking - I am not diagnosing over the internet, psychotic, and altough depression might be a comorbidity here, there's no way he is "stable" in treatment with "mild combinations of antidepressants". 91.132.224.196 (talk) 08:22, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Undo edit
I've undone the seeming vandalism of 75.144.87.53 who feels it amusing to state Brian "fathered 37 children". Jusdafax (talk) 04:15, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Additions, etc.
Ok, I've added three sections to cover Brian Wilson's life up to the Beach Boy era (sorely needed, since there was nothing) and have started work on the BB era itself. My refrences are in place but I'm still not an expert in the coding, so it's a bit messed up. Hopefully someone can fix it up, thanks. There is more work to do here in the references and general cleanup, I'll get back at it asap.

By the way, I agree that the pictures need work. The silly one with the fingers in his mouth oughta go, and the not-great photo at the top should be bumped down and replaced by a shot of Mr. Wilson in his prime. I realize it may be difficult to find a photo that isn't copyrighted, however. Jusdafax (talk) 09:04, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Another section
I've plugged the last hole in the article, covering the late 1961 to mid 1962 period with 'First Performances and the Quest for a Major Label', and tweaking a bit in the other early sections. The article still needs a fair amount of work to get a bump in grade, but I think it's getting closer. Jusdafax (talk) 09:44, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Yet another section- 'Artistic growth'
OK, I'm digging back into what I see as the remaining major problems with the article. The crucial time period of '63-'66 needs to be gone into in much greater depth; these after all were Brian Wilson's peak years, from Surfin' USA to Good Vibrations.

Also, we still need a decent photo. Can no one step forward and upload a good shot that is of undisputed ownership? Reading back on this page, it appears bots removed other photos. Remember, they will continue to do so if the rights to the shot aren't made clear.Jusdafax (talk) 03:46, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks to Bananatalk for a decent start to the 'Pet Sounds' era. One problem: No references, which are crucial to your work. If you could add them it would help a lot.Jusdafax (talk) 07:08, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the photo addition. It's still not quite from the 'Golden Era' but is much better. And removing the 'silly mouth' and replacing it with the former top photo is good, as well. Over all a fine upgrade to the article. Jusdafax (talk) 04:10, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Next new section: Early era as writer/producer
Finally getting back to Brian Wilson. Here's a start on the Summer/Fall of 1963. It could be expanded a bit, but the basics are stated, at least. This was a heady period for Brian, with hit records galore, and it seems worthwhile to take note of it. Jusdafax (talk) 00:46, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Member of the Beach Boys?
Please take a look at this: Brian Wilson (disambiguation) Can't we safely say that BW is an ex-member of the Beach Boys? *The* Beach Boys---or what's left of them---is no more than Mike Love & Co. these days. But AFAIK Wilson is not anymore "member of the Beach Boys." -andy 85.179.164.201 (talk) 02:59, 14 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Changed to "one of the original members of The Beach Boys." Thanks for noticing this.   Seduisant (talk) 03:50, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Grammy award winning
The article's opening sentence used to have the phrase "Grammy award-winning" in it: Brian Douglas Wilson (born June 20, 1942 in Inglewood, California) is a Grammy award-winning American musician, best known as the leader and chief songwriter of the rock group The Beach Boys. In the last several days, the phrase "Grammy award-winning" has been removed twice by User:Indopug, first without explanation and then (after my revert noting the lack of edit summary) with the explanation "POV". Perhaps Indopug meant to reference WP:NPOV. I would like some editor viewpoints to achieve a consensus on whether including the "Grammy award-winning" fact in the opening sentence is a WP:POV (or WP:NPOV) issue. In any event, my view is the fact that Wilson won a Grammy award" speaks to his notibility as a musician and there is no POV or NPOV issue with this fact being in the opening sentence. Thanks, --hulmem (talk) 22:56, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't think it's POV at all... it's more like a merit badge. Or like saying "Martin Scorsese is an Oscar-winning director."  The irony is that the acknowledged master of symphonic pop, famous in part for his flawless harmonic vocal arrangements,  won his only Grammy for an instrumental.  But no matter - it can stay as far as I'm concerned. --Seduisant (talk) 01:36, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm fine with 'Grammy-award winning' (or maybe just 'Grammy winning') in the opening sentence; I don't see how it would be POV at all. It's just an accomplishment of his. (I don't see how his Grammy award is ironic either, but that's another story.) Santa Claus of the Future (talk) 02:34, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, that's three of us ok with the "Grammy award-winning" language and no objections so I put it back in. --hulmem (talk) 04:25, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

It is a peacock term. See WP:PEACOCK. It is alright to mention the Grammy later on in the lead ("Wilson won the Grammy for ..."), but to describe Wilson as Grammy-winning even before we mention that he is a musician gives the opening statement a pro-POV flavour. Further, since pretty much every notable musician has won some award or the other, practically every Wikipedia musician can begin with a description of the subject as 'award-winning'. The opening statement should thus be as simple as possible.—indopug (talk) 11:39, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Photo issue again
Hate to bring this up again but the previous concerns were archived. Is there no better photo of Brian Wilson available? This one is not truly terrible; it just makes it look like his nose is being swallowed by the microphone, or that he has a cone on his nose, or something.

The new, superior picture must be uploaded to Commons, clear all the rights issues that come with that, and then linked here. If you just put up any old photo you find, it will be removed. Someone out there has a very-good-to-great photo of Brian Wilson. This is a Wikipedia article about one of the most famous rock musicians in history... let's have a photo that is worthy of that. Thanks! Jusdafax  21:45, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Dick Dale
I,d like to see this get to Brian personally.I,m a lifelong fan of surf music-especially Dick Dale.I know him & the Beach Boy,s have done quite a few benefit concerts for other musicians who find themselves in dire straits.Dick had colon cancer in 2008-he was incapacitated for quite a while.His cancer has returned & its bad.I know he,s having a hard time keeping his head above water.Anything that you can do Brian??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.52.238.169 (talk) 23:20, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

'Possible Beach Boys 50th anniversary reunion' section pulled out
I have deleted this section as being moot (since Brian Wilson is not reuniting with the Beach Boys) and in any case is covered in the Beach Boys article as well. Jus da  fax   18:20, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Other musicians
...is a lengthy, unsourced section filled with tributes. Unencyclopedic and looks cringe-inducingly like an extended blurb/tribute. Would like consensus before deleting. 99.12.241.215 (talk) 20:40, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * It appears some sources have been added in the past few months but I agree the section is over the top. Perhaps it would function better as a separate article. Otherwise I'd look at trimming or eliminating the section as unencyclopedic. Jus  da  fax   17:06, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I also wanted to start writing something about this section. The section can't stay like this, at least not in this format. This way, it looks like a fanboy-ish (though these probably aren't boys anymore ;-) attempt to show how hot Brian Wilson is. Using one or two of these quotes in a reception section would certainly be alright (the Beach Boys fans will probably want to use McCartney, as already used on several Beach Boys-related articles), but then it's important to also list some negative opinions as well, which this section currently doesn't, because I'm pretty sure there are folks who believe him to be overrated. So, a decent reception section would be alright, but this section is fancruft rubbish that should be removed ASAP. --The Evil IP address (talk) 20:54, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Photo
The photo is plain horrid. He looks in it like Johhny Cash the day before he died. I`m sure a better shot of this pop culture icon exists, can be found and finally used in complience with the laws that apply. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.15.237.72 (talk) 16:57, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I have been saying that for years here to little effect. Jus  da  fax   08:42, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

File:Brian Wilson portrait by David Anderle.jpg
File:Brian Wilson portrait by David Anderle.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 01:00, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Sections
Over the past couple of weeks I've been trying to find a way to properly organize the different biographical sections in a way that doesn't look jumbled. 1967-1972 / 1982-1994 / etc. is accurate, but maybe too dead-on? Separating by... ...might look most neat. Also to do away with the hyphenated years in-section altogether. --Ilovetopaint (talk) 20:17, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
 * 1940s–1950s: Early life
 * 1960s: Initial career with the Beach Boys
 * 1970s: Mental illness
 * 1980s: Under psychiatric malpractice
 * 1990s–2000s
 * 2010s


 * Since then I've noticed that the article is written too much in a timely, chronological order for its own good. Looking at other musician articles (like George Harrison) leave me thinking that the article would be a lot better off if scattered information like performances, songwriting, styles, production for other artists, etc. were split off into a "Musicianship" section. Music career could also do better being split between his Beach Boys era and present solo years. Not to mention moving a lot of the early Beach Boys info to its article where it fits more appropriately. I don't know if his Landy stuff should be moved under "Personal life". He was extremely involved with Wilson's music career so I'll just leave it under there. I'll try getting on all the above now; anybody else is open to give input and/or help out.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 03:32, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
 * While I appreciate your candor, I am going to have to disagree your ideas, to be frank. Wilson's life is fairly well represented as it is in my view. Wilson was the Beach Boys through most of the sixties, but moving material out willy nilly to the Beach Boys article seems like a bad idea to me. Wilson's life is very chronological and one period builds directly on the next... indeed, informs the next. I don't think that the article needs this treatment. Again, I am in disagreement with the proposal to radically reshape the structure of the article, and urge you to rethink your proposal. Jus  da  fax   04:13, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I do think that the way it is now, carrying out those suggestions would be reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaally tedious and need a looooooot of context rewriting. You can see what I had in mind at User:Ilovetopaint/sandbox (I only went about a quarter of the way through). "If it ain't broke don't fix it." Everything does look rather unbroken.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 04:31, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

'Experimenting' with drugs
Do we really have to replicate this old media cliché, that is supposed to sanitise dope. I think 'indulging' is a better word. Valetude (talk) 15:39, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 June 2014
In the "1960s" section (early history of Beach Boys), I find the following. Please insert a comma just before "both". Otherwise, the remark is OK.

>The only songs the group recorded were "Barbie" and "What Is a Young Girl Made Of?" both Morgan compositions.

128.63.16.20 (talk) 20:13, 26 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Adding the comma seemed awkward to me so I reworded the sentence slightly. Does that work? Ivanvector (talk) 20:19, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Try a colon, not a comma, after "two Morgan compositions". The intent of the remark is apparently to name those two Morgan compositions, but a possible (erroneous) interpretation is two Morgan compositions which are UNNAMED, PLUS those two titles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 22:21, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

use of "the rest of his life"
The last sentence before the header line "Pet Sounds and Smile" is this: >A week after his first LSD trip, Wilson began suffering from auditory hallucinations, persisting for the rest of his life.

I don't know enough about the reference material to suggest a change, but I usually see "the rest of his/her life" either as:

1. referring to a person who has already died

or

2. referring to the future, regarding a condition which will last for the rest of the subject person's life

However, Brian Wilson is living. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 20:21, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

The condition is virtually incurable and is still with him (as of 2013).--Ilovetopaint (talk) 21:52, 26 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I agree it sounded like it was in the past, as though he had already died. I changed it to "which have persisted throughout his life" which seems more current to me. Ivanvector (talk) 21:59, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Much better wording and improves the article, thanks. Jus  da  fax   22:47, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Best known for...
Wilson is clearly best known for his work with the Beach Boys. - Sum mer PhD  (talk) 04:15, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * No discussion to the contrary, I'm changing it back. - Sum mer PhD  (talk) 22:57, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

possible tinnitus?
it's known that people who often work with loud noise can get tinnitus. the result is hearing a sound that does not exist. the person may be confused about what he has, and believe it is a mental problem. the brain can trick the person into trying to interpret the sound.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinnitus — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.176.108.8 (talk • contribs) 03:19, June 28, 2014‎
 * This talk page is for discussing improvements to the article, not for general discussion of the topic. - Sum mer PhD  (talk) 04:03, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Addition to lede reverted re: movie release date
I'd suggest we add to the lede that the new Brian Wilson movie "Love and Mercy" was released widely, or nearly widely (480 theaters according to Box Office Mojo .com) in June 2015. The reason for this addition is to ease confusion because the movie has an official 2014 release date. What generally happens in a case like this is that numerous people will try to put the "correct" date in, which they will think is 2015, resulting in confusion. I inserted it in the lede, but was reverted. Again, as it reads now, the movie appears to the uninformed to have been released in 2014. Jus da  fax   04:33, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think the movie should be mentioned in the lede at all. Ray and Walk the Line aren't mentioned in the Ray Charles and Johnny Cash ledes, and those were much bigger movies. Santa Claus of the Future (talk) 00:49, 9 June 2015 (UTC)


 * I think their biopics should be mentioned in their articles. They are pretty significant to their legacy.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 02:16, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
 * In the article, of course. Just not in the lede. Santa Claus of the Future (talk) 02:17, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Unless there is policy or guideline or something along the line of best practices to exclude it, I see no reason why mentioning the film should be excluded from the lede. Because similar articles don't have mention of a biopic on the article subject in the lede is no reason to leave it out (see WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS).  -- WV ● ✉ ✓  02:33, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Right -- I meant it should be in the lede.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 02:59, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

"Shortnin' Bread"
Wilson is praising the song itself, not bragging about his arrangement/performance. Hence, the link to the composition. I slightly altered the name of the album in question because of a scripting quirk. When the article about the album is linked to, the name is correct. Tapered (talk) 09:52, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

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2009 photo
I have uploaded a photo that shows the current appearance of Brian Wilson. Another user reverted it back to an eight-year-old black-and-white blurry photo because they didn't like the one I uploaded. Could this user please provide an explanation for his/her action? — Preceding unsigned comment added by J-Ham2000 (talk • contribs) 21:37, 7 May 2017 (UTC)


 * The new photo (File:Brian Wilson Live.jpg) is newer, but it's a (slightly?) unflattering close-up taken while he was sitting down and delivering a vocal. The current photo (File:Brian Wilson 2009.png) is older, but it's at least a proper snapshot of Wilson, where he's standing and you're able to see his complete 6'2" frame, which is ideal for a primary photo. See Paul McCartney, Ringo Starr, Frank Zappa, David Crosby, Michael Jackson, Elvis Presley, and so on..--Ilovetopaint (talk) 04:26, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

OK. I will add a photo where it shows more of Brian's frame. I have a number of them. Tell me what you think.J-Ham2000 (talk) 23:54, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

I have changed it to a photo from the reunion tour where he is standing and playing bass, since sitting is not wanted. The picture is not blurry like the previous selection. Kdrogers1 (talk) 04:35, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Love You
This passage just caught my eye;

"In April 1977, the all-original album by Wilson, Love You, was released bearing the Beach Boys moniker, although the group's contributions were minimal."

I feel this is not quite accurate - though the album is written entirely by Brian with three co-writes (two with fellow Beach Boys members), the lead vocals on the album are dispersed quite evenly between the members of the band, and the band all contribute musically too with about the same amount of instrumentation contributions as on 15 Big Ones. As far as I can tell (I haven't been able to find a track-by-track personnel anywhere), "Solar System" is the only track on the album which is potentially a solo recording by Wilson. I think it would be better for that sentence to read "although the group's songwriting contributions were minimal" or something similar. What do we think? Humbledaisy (talk) 21:34, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

“Years active” in infobox does not mean childhood
I have reverted an IP who edited the infobox to indicate Wilson was active from age two. There are other changes I have reverted as well. Happy to discuss if need be. Jusdafax (talk) 18:27, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Wording?
There's a couple of odd wording choices here and there. The "1970's to 1980's" section says "Wilson's reputation suffered as a result of his eccentricities of lore," and the "Landy Interventions" section says the editorial piece for Rolling Stone "included eccentric accounts between Brian and Landy to Felton." What are "eccentricities of lore?" What is an "eccentric account?" I'll let someone else tweak the wording, because I'm not sure I understand what is meant. I'd suggest "Wilson's reputation suffered as a result of his purported eccentricities" and "included bizarre exchanges between Brian and Landy, witnessed by Felton." Or something.Sadiemonster (talk) 04:47, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Also, "he was reputed for his reclusive lifestyle" doesn't sound like it was written by a native speaker of English. 75.169.134.235 (talk) 07:12, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Without engaging in Falsetto?
Brian Wilson sang in falsetto all the time back in the day. 2601:1C0:8701:6360:31D1:E85C:B481:FBD6 (talk) 05:25, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Too many samples?
I see more than three samples used, and I can't tell which ones are contextually significant to (the understanding and conveyance about) Brian Wilson. --George Ho (talk) 20:48, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Proposed addition to para.3
I’d like to add, because of the exceptionally high regard in which Pet Sounds is held, that high regard not being referred to at this stage, the phrase "which is considered to be among the greatest and most influential albums in music history". It’s lifted straight from the lede of the Pet Sounds article. Boscaswell  talk  22:28, 24 December 2022 (UTC)