Talk:Bridge and tunnel

Definition
It seems excessive to have half the definition about the modern adoption of the term in San Francisco. I agree it is worth a mention somewhere in the article, but as this is primarily and originally a NY term, I think we should reduce and/or move this portion of the definition. -Lciaccio (talk) 17:57, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Outer Boroughs as B&T?
My personal experience clashes with the inclusion of some other New York City boroughs (particularly Brooklyn) being included as B&T. Although it certainly is true that one must use a bridge or tunnel to enter Manhattan from Brooklyn or Queens, I've found that the term was more often used to describe people coming from New Jersey, Connecticut and (often especially) Long Island. I know, of course that Brooklyn and Queens are geographically located on Long Island, but they are also contained within the city limits and connected via the subway system. That said, I don't have any evidence to back up any of this, just thought I'd weigh in. Cuffeparade 14:20, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I was just thinking the same thing, especially now that celebrities are moving to Brooklyn and parts of it are very chic. Two other factors 1) Queens and Brooklyn are not "undiverse" but are more diverse than Manhattan 2) They are not culturally dissimilar; there is no style of dress unique to Brooklyn and no accent associated with Queens. As compared to Long Island and Jersey, B&Q folks can blend in quite nicely. - Lciaccio 20:17, 20 February 2007 (UTC) (from Long Island, which thoroughly deserves the label)


 * Having grown up on Staten Island (the only Outer Borough where you *cannot* take a Bridge or Tunnel to go directly to Manhattan...) and Queens, the B&T mindset is alive & well in the Boroughs. Most of the people I grew up with still look like extras from "Saturday Night Fever" or "The Sopranos" with big shiny hair, tight shiny clothes, and fat shiny gold jewelry. And their ideas on race relations run somewhere between Don Imus & the late former Alabama Gov. George Wallace (back when he was standing in in the doorway of the University of Alabama to block the desegregation order). Don't get me wrong, I still love them and always will, and they'll never be as bad as Jerseyites or someone from "Lawn Guy-land" [insert ironically winking smiley *HERE*], but there's still a kernel of truth from the B&T stereotype that sticks to most, if not all, of the residents of the Outer Boroughs.Freddiefreelance 16:45, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with you as to Staten Island, but I don't think the above describes Queens or Brooklyn very well, especially Park Slope, Williamsburg, etc. Perhaps it is partially a function of housing density? Staten Island is largely suburban, while much of Queens and Brooklyn are as high-density as parts of the village.  Also, the ease of commute from LIC, parts of Brooklyn, etc mean that some Manhattan "types" are now moving out there for more space and a skyline view, bringing their culture with them.  The same can't be said for SI, as far as I know. -Lciaccio (talk) 17:54, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The outer burrows are not bridge and tunnel. Bridge and Tunnel refers to residents (in descending order of applicability) of New Jersey, Upstate New York (ie; Westchester), Long Island, and Connecticut who travel to the city for nightlife. The term is less applicable to those who simply commute to work, and have families in the suburbs and do not go to clubs. Aside from a reference to geographical residence, it denotes a culture outside that of the city. The Bridge and Tunnel crowd frequents bars and clubs that are typically considered undesirable by city dwellers, often due largely in part to the bridge and tunnel clientele. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.56.43.187 (talk) 17:10, 23 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Can anyone find any written sources for that, and for how it's used? That would be interesting to note in the article.  In SF, the term is sometimes used to refer to people from San Jose, which is connected by land, but not to the more upscale sophisticated crowd from Marin, over the Golden Gate bridge.  And there too, it's a slight to club goers perceived as outsiders, unsophisticated, or clueless.  Used ironically, rarely seriously, though either way the suburbanites often take offense.  - Wikidemon (talk) 20:21, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

B&T phenomenon exists In Canada and probably in major world cities aswell
Vancouver Canada's west end also uses the term Bridge and Tunneler. However, In Toronto, Canada, we use the term "905 crowd" which is the Toronto equivalent of Bridge and tunnel crowd. The term originated for the fact that downtown Toronto uses the 416 area code while the suburbs use 905. Also I am sure this phenomenon exists in major cities around the world. If anyone in other cities knows of similar sociological phenomena please add it here

Here are some quotes I have gathered on the web associated with Bridge and Tunnel:

"Bridge and tunnelers dressed in their flannel Friday best bobbed their heads; their girlfriends swayed to bassist Geoff Stansfield's throbbing groove. " http://www.blacklabworld.com/blw/pages/08_history.html

"Hipsters and fashionista's versus the masses of over scrubbed bridge and tunnelers who have made the meat packing district a hell away from home." http://abstractdynamics.org/2004/09/index.html

"“Among Manhattan's tastemakers, there is no greater insult than saying a place is "bridge and tunnel" - invaded by the stereotypically big-haired, short-skirted, wifebeater-wearing crowd from points Jersey and Long Island. " http://www.clubplanet.com/news/archive/belittled_bt_loved_by_nightlife.asp --Heckubiss 16:39, 21 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I haven't heard of such a thing around Boston, but I would fall into that category; there is a weak distinction between 617 (Boston and immediately surrounding suburbs) and 781 (inner suburbs), but for the most part you don't hear people complaining about it. It does exist on Cape Cod, though in that case you mostly hear the terms "Over the Bridge", "damn tourists" and (for people like me who live here but are latecomers to the area) "washashores". Haikupoet 17:15, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Connecticut
I removed a parenthetical statement from Connecticut in the list of surrounding areas that qualify as B&T. It said that the connotation of B&T could not refer to the affluent residents of Connecticut. I'm not sure what was meant by this, and there might as well be similar lines for the affluent residents of New Jersey and Long Island. The point of B&T is that they are people from outside of the city who travel into the city, regardless of their socioeconomic status. Cuffeparade 06:27, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Clean ups
I've just done a minor clean-up that I hope pleases most. I did it in pieces, so if anyone has reversion-fever they can hopefully just work on the part they don't like and revert the whole thing. I've tried to get rid of POV-pushing language on both sides and just state the facts. Alas, "outer borough" is a real term and "other burrough" is not, as far as I can tell. So that's the term to use. But in several places I edited the sentence to avoid that all together and just say people from outside Manhattan, etc.

The term "guido" has always bothered me here because it sounds racist against Italians. For the article to say that the term B&T is sometimes applied to guidos is to ratify the legitimacy of guido as a term, and I don't think we should. So I spelled it out, that b&t is used to apply to ethnic whites perceived as uncultured, macho, etc. That's probably more like it because B&T is also applied to greeks, persians, etc., anyone perceived by the people using the word as being less cultured because of their ethnic background. Wikidemo 20:02, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

OK, I know the literal definition; what about the connotations?
The article does a good job of explaining that B&T people are literally people who live in the Outer Boroughs and drive into Manhattan. But none of the disparaging references I find on the internet seem to reference the commuting habits of B&T people. I think you're entirely missing out on the most important part of the definition.

What does it mean to be a B&T person? Does it mean you are socioeconomically lower-class? A suburbanite? That you prefer 1980's era fashion trends? That you have an overinflated sense of self-importance? That you are loud, boorish, and obnoxious? What? Bjartmarr (talk) 20:54, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup (again)
i trimmed out nonnotable trivia, and some "see also" links. as something like this was done 2 years ago, seems this article attracts nonnotable material. Before adding to article, try to ask: is this information that has a referenced, established source, or is it just something you heard? as a phrase in common use in some areas, it will have lots of appearances, with lots of subtle variants in meaning, which simply cannot all be documented. if we referenced every use of a phrase in movies, tv, books, think of the number of trivia entries for "flash in the pan", "old fogey", or "drunk(ard)". all we need is 2 or 3 examples to show notability in culture, like the oxford english dictionary provides.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 16:16, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Not applied if you live in Jersey?
I'm removing the completely untrue bit about the term not being applied if you live in Jersey. If you can find some reference to back this up, feel free. Jds2001 (talk) 02:13, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Citation Needed on the Boston Section
I hate to be the one who does this, but I'd like to request some citation or removal for application of the term to Boston. For no other reason than I've lived in Boston for most of the last six years and have never heard anyone use it. Especially given that unless you live in an incredibly un-hip on campus dorm, you almost certainly don't live in any of the city's "core neighborhoods" described herein if you're under thirty five. 174.62.208.249 (talk) 04:57, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

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descriptive geographic term
i don't like that the disambiguation hatnote says This article is about the descriptive geographic term when the article is about people, not geography. However, the people in question are largely defined by their commute and where they live--in other words, geography. Nevertheless, i'm going to be bold and change the hatnote. (This seemed a bit wordy to put in an edit summary.)

--71.121.143.224 (talk) 10:31, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
 * That's OK. It is good to explain changes. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 22:47, 17 September 2019 (UTC)