Talk:Bridge over Troubled Water (song)

Similarity with Oscar Peterson song
Is this song a cover or a work based on Oscar Peterson's "Hymn to Freedom"? Oscar Peterson's song was released almost 10 years earlier (at least) and starts with the melody of BOTW before lots of improvisations around the theme. Could it be a central inspiration to Simon and Garfunkel (subconciously)? The melody is really to similar to be a coincidence. Pharaohmø —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.165.147.200 (talk) 16:42, 6 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I can see what you mean, but apart from the two bars of Simon's tune that carry the title words it's not anything really similar, and even that snippet is used in quite a different way in the wider context of BOTW. It's like saying Goodbye Yellow Brick Road was a rip-off of Dylan's Memphis Blues Again - the same sedately descending scale of chords in the same key, though Elton makes the chords more opulent. It's striking if you've noticed it but nowhere near definite. /Strausszek (talk) 20:20, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

The title was derived from "Oh Mary don't You Weep", a song by the godpel group "The Swan Silvertones".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/soldonsong/songlibrary/indepth/bridgeovertroubledwater.shtml

http://www.cmt.com/artists/az/swan_silvertones/bio.jhtml

4/21/06 - I've read conflicting things about BOTW, once that Simon regretted allowing AG to sing it solo, the other that he had to convince AG to do it at all.

Question: who is singing BOTW on the added track of the CD? I think it is Simon.

bb

"which was yet another piano-based future elevator music standard" That statement (about "let it be") seems to be entirely someones opinion.

you tube
why is it in the youtube cat????--Tresckow 04:18, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

There is a Church in Inglewood Ga. Inglewood AME., that has a Old Hymnal and I do mean old with the song Bridge Over Trouble Waters, and at the bottom of it where the author's name should go, it reads Negro Spiritual, Author unknown. Stop giving credit where credit is not do. Est3202@netzero.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.239.0.69 (talk) 10:23, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:BridgeWater.jpg
Image:BridgeWater.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:Bridgeovertroubledwater45.jpg
Image:Bridgeovertroubledwater45.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 05:12, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Key signature?
Some mistake surely: "It was written on the guitar in the key of E Sharp although on an early demo version Paul Simon detuned the song on his guitar to an F." --Pfold (talk) 13:36, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Agree, My limited knowledge of Music Theory says there is not Key of E#. Previously this was written as "It was written on the guitar in the key of G although on an early demo version Paul Simon detuned the song on his guitar to an F.". Can this line be removed until a reference is found?

While there acually is a key signature E#, it is only different from F on paper, you play it like F on any instrument. So it's obviously a mistake. I think the previous notation about it originally being in G probably is correct.Cbswe (talk) 00:17, 11 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.243.106 (talk) 22:58, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Confused by all of the above. The song is in Eb. If it were in G, the final line would have Garfunkel going up to a top C! I have also read a book about songwriting written by Paul Simon saying that he always intended it to be in either Eb or in Ab and that was his starting point for composing it. Given that this bit of the article is unreferenced and unclear at best, wrong at worst, I'll remove it until someone can verify it and explain it better and say why it ended up in Eb for the release. GDallimore (Talk) 18:47, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

First public performance
The first time the song was included in a national broadcast was a 11/30/1969 CBS special. But the song was performed in the concerts that made up the "Live 69" album (released in 2008), earlier in the Nov. 1969, at the least. Added "national audience " for "in public" to the citation in "Writing and Recording."RaqiwasSushi (talk) 14:45, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Bridge over Troubled Water was performed in concert at Southern Illinois University, Carbondale, Illinois on 11/8/69. I was at the concert. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Reb121750 (talk • contribs) 03:56, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. Jenks24 (talk) 11:37, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Bridge over Troubled Water (song) → Bridge Over Troubled Water (song) – This is the correct name of the song. It is incorrect to write the "Over" in small letters. Numerous sources state "Bridge Over Troubled Water", eg Allmusic. It should be also consistent with the album of the same name. Regards. GoP T C N 11:54, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose as per MOS:CT. Prepositions of four or less letter are not capitalized. --Education does not equal common sense. 我不在乎  20:23, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The guideline is incorrect. Nearly no source write the word in lower case.-- GoP T C N 20:29, 24 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Oppose per the guideline above. Wikipedia's capitalization rules are deliberately written to override the capitalization used in other sources, as sources do vary. The album appears to have been moved without discussion, and should be moved back to Bridge over Troubled Water. Interplanet Janet, Esquire IANAL 11:18, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * See WP:COMMONNAME.-- GoP T C N 12:47, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * WP:COMMONNAME says nothing about capitalization. Interplanet Janet, Esquire IANAL 14:15, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

*Oppose I would prefer to see Over with a capital, because that is widespread and common usage. However, we have a house style for a reason, and it saves distracting arguments if we stick by it, even when we disagree with it. The only two way to get this accepted would be to A) call on Ignore All Rules - but that would be inappropriate for what is a minor style issue; or B) to start a discussion to get the MoS changed so that it applies to prepositions of three letters or less (rather than four letters or less). I would likely support B.  SilkTork   ✔Tea time  14:56, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Support.  SilkTork   ✔Tea time  15:20, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * If it could be said it is being used as a phrasal verb then it would be allowed. It is not being used in a figurative sense - this is not a real bridge over a river; this is a metaphorical bridging-over of troubles. Hmmm. Yes. I might switch to support, as I think this is a phrasal verb.  SilkTork   ✔Tea time  15:15, 25 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Oppose per MOS:CT. (And clearly used as a preposition, not part of a phrasal verb, in the lyrics of the song—thus, presumptively in the title as well.) Deor (talk) 16:53, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * "Like a bridge over troubled water I will lay me down ... Like a bridge over troubled water I will ease your mind". The lyrics are the same as the title - the use of over is not in the sense of a bridge that is above and to the other side of troubled water, it is in the sense of a person who is bridging-over, that is reducing or overcoming, troubled water (or a person's worries and concerns). The "bridge over" phrase is describing the singer's actions - he is easing the person's concerns by overcoming any problems they may have.  SilkTork   ✔Tea time  21:52, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Agree, it is a phrasal verb, thus should be moved. Other reliable sources discovered the meaning. Thanks for your clarification, SilkTork. Regards.-- GoP T C N 10:09, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
 * This is not a phrasal verb. "Troubled water" is not being "bridged over". "Bridge" in those lyrics (and in the title) is a noun, not part of a phrasal verb. "Make sure you bridge over troubled water" might contain a phrasal verb (I don't think so even there, but maybe). "Like a bridge over troubled water" does not. "Phrasal-verbness" has nothing to do with "figurativeness". -- JHunterJ (talk) 18:05, 27 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Allmusic is inconsistent in its capitalization of "over" ( . Reliable sources also use lowercase "over" for this title (, . -- JHunterJ (talk) 18:05, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose; house style is to avoid capitalizing short prepositions. Powers T 21:06, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Capitalisation?
Shouldn't occurrences of the title in this article agree with the name of the article in having over, not Over? Moreover, how about Bridge Over Troubled Water, the article about the album? Shouldn't it be moved to Bridge over Troubled Water, too, and all occurrences of the song and album title in that article as well as everywhere else in Wikipedia (outside of literal quotes) be adapted for consistency? The current inconsistency is rather ugly. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 20:23, 16 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm looking at the artwork on this page, and it looks like it was capitalized "O", which would be consistent with title capitalization rules as I understood them (I thought the criterion was 3 letters or fewer, not 4). I myself was wondering why this article is under small "o" and not capital "O" and was considering moving it.  But of course, I thought I'd take a look at the talk page and see if others were discussing this.  I see there was a discussion w/r/t this, and the decision seems to be not to move. -- Joe (talk) 13:36, 22 June 2017 (UTC)


 * I see that above Requested move was closed by User:Jenks24 without any summary. And that was five years ago, so I don't see why another request could be made. I'd support a move to a capital O. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:24, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
 * REALLY???!!!
 * Shouldn't it be as simple as this... The article shows the actual photo of the cover of the single. On it, 'Over' is capitalized. So the record company, the print editor, and apparently the writer of the song, all saw fit to make the 'O' capital. And when it comes to art, don't we throw all the rules out the window and go with what the artist intended? REALLY... what a bunch of grammatical snobs! I'm sure Paul would agree. And maybe we can start a whole new discussion on my use of dot-dot-dot, and my proper, or improper, use of commas.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaytrox (talk • contribs) 15:56, 7 March 2020 (UTC)


 * FWIW, WikiProject Songs adopts as its capitalization rule the provsions of WP:ALBUMCAPS: "the Wikipedia standard is to capitalize ... other words except for ... [p]repositions shorter than five characters – of, to, in, for, on, over, with, than". TJRC (talk) 21:26, 7 March 2020 (UTC)


 * FWIW (2) ), Paul Simon's web page for this song, one of the few "official-ish" pages I could find that doesn't use all capital letters for the song/album title, does capitalize "over". Count3r (talk) 18:42, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The lower case "o" in "over" looks wrong to me because I have the LP on which the song was released and it has a capital "O" both for the title of the album and the title of the song. Is there a more reliable source than the album itself? John Link (talk) 23:32, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The inconsistency is quite ugly, as is the lower case "o" itself. John Link (talk) 23:34, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Totally agree. It doesn't help that it's the second word. As per WP:IAR, it should simply match what's on the cover. It makes no difference to the meaning. It just looks wrong. Lazy even. 86.187.165.146 (talk) 18:08, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Silver girl
According to Rolling Stone:
 * The "Sail on, silver girl" verse was Garfunkel's idea; Simon has never liked it.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/the-500-greatest-songs-of-all-time-20110407/simon-and-garfunkel-bridge-over-troubled-water-20110525 Ulmanor (talk) 04:23, 3 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, it's explained here:
 * "Some fans and critics had speculated that “silver girl” might be a reference to a needle and that the song was really about heroin use. But Simon eventually set the record straight when he revealed that the silver line is actually an innocent inside joke aimed at his first wife, Peggy Harper. Simon started calling her “Silver Girl” after she noticed her first silver-grey hairs. She was barely 30 at the time and the grey hairs made her very upset."
 * It seems the verse was added by Simon "at the recording studio after Garfunkel and producer Roy Halee insisted that the song needed a “bigger” sound at the end." Martinevans123 (talk) 14:31, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

Copyright of song video
The link used for this article was dead. That video was blocked by request of Sony Music Entertainment due to copyright violation with this statement: “This video contains content from SME, who has blocked it on copyright grounds.” And (smaller): “Sorry about that.”

I deleted the fan-uploaded Central Park version.

On August 25, 2015, the artists' channel SimonGarfunkelVEVO published a YouTube video of the song. I added their live link that is not a copyright violation. Al Leluia81 (talk) 15:54, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Release date
"Bridge Over Troubled Water" debuted at #40 as "Bridge Over Troubled Waters" on the 26 January 1970 WLS 890 Hit Parade, so the single must have been released earlier than that date. Also the single debuted at #22 on the 28 January 1970 KHJ "Boss 30", too soon if the single had been released on 26 January 1970.107.185.145.26 (talk) 06:11, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

New Cover of Bridge over Troubled Water
Please consider adding the December 2015 Draiman version by Disturbed (Chicago metal band)to the list of covers. It's magnificent! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.56.88.246 (talk) 15:05, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Reference missing
There are two citations to "Ebel 2004", but no source listed in the Bibliography. Yoninah (talk) 23:36, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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There is something wrong with two of the charts and their external references that I do not know how to resolve. The weekly charts and the highest position charts display incorrectly on the Ipad App and occasionally when first viewed on the firefox browser although this resolves itself when going back in from another page. AHarryGill — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aharrygill (talk • contribs) 16:16, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Duplication
The second and third paragraph of the Background section seem to tell the same things twice (in other words, the third paragraph starts the story over again). Bever (talk) 04:56, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Paul Simon's participation
Is Paul singing backing vocals on the final verse? I know that Artie sings the first two verses solo, but it sounds like Paul is joining in on the last verse, since it's clearly not sung by Artie alone. I think it's highly unlikely that Paul would've sat out vocally or instrumentally on the song, since he wrote it and was one of the producers. 203.221.15.210 (talk) 10:17, 10 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Yes. John Link (talk) 23:17, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

'While'
"The song's instrumentation was recorded in California while the duo's vocals were cut in New York."

That ambiguously suggests that recording sessions were simultaneously held in California and New York. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.108.121.166 (talk) 15:01, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Specificity of Bach influence
In case we'd like to add a clarification to this article regarding the specific Bach influence on this song, the 6-note melodic phrase of "Bridge Over Troubled Water" that goes with the lyrics "and tears are in your eyes" (notes: E | F E D G | E) is exactly comparable to the last six notes of the soprano line of the Bach chorale, which are: E | F E D G | E (the lyrics of that phrase are "ge - grü - ßet seist du mir."). 173.88.246.138 (talk) 17:38, 24 June 2023 (UTC)