Talk:Bridget Burgess

Requested move 18 August 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) ASUKITE  14:09, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Bridget Burgess (racing driver) → Bridget Burgess – This page is currently redirecting to List of Emmerdale characters (2006). As it is a minor character a hatnote may be enough. Inwind (talk) 12:12, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Support Not sure how (or if) it would affect the upcoming DYK but it's fine with me. --Bcschneider53 (talk) 01:18, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Support per nomination and Bcschneider53. A redirect to a non-article stub for a subsidiary character from 14 to 15 years ago can not be primary over the subject of an article. Linking the Emmerdale character in a hatnote atop the racing driver's entry would suffice. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 01:51, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Support, obviously the name should go to the real person, not the super niche fictional character, who only deserves a hatnote here. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 04:54, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Support Article titles should go to articles, not to minor sections. --2x2leax (talk) 09:20, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Support per nom and others. But should still have a hatnote. Note that I have added a hatnote to List_of_Emmerdale_characters_(2006) in the interim which should be removed when this article is moved. A7V2 (talk) 08:20, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Language and date format
As Burgess is Australian, STRONGNAT and ENGVAR suggest Australian English and an Australian date format is applicable, not American. It doesn’t matter where she lives, it’s her nationality that’s key. If the admin can stop edit warring and discuss it would be much better for all. 2A01:4C8:46D:2DFF:5CB:46F7:4F12:4CCC (talk) 09:19, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I have discussed this at length already this morning, both at WT:MOS and at WP:ERRORS, and explained clearly why this subject can't be said to have strong national ties to Australia, when she's lived in the US since the age of seven and her professional life, is based there. Note that this mirrors Wernher von Braun (written in American English but with dmy dates) and Alexander Graham Bell (British English with mdy), to name a couple, where subjects have ties to two or more countries, and whose style therefore reflects the earliest version rather than their country of birth. Also I'm not the one arguing for a change of style here (something which WP:MOS strongly discourages, and which ArbCom has taken a dim view on) I was simply reverting to the status quo of US English, given that there doesn't seem a strong reason to change. &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 10:31, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * It's not straightforward if WP:STRONGNAT applies here. Unless there's a consensus to change, MOS:RETAIN seems relevant.—Bagumba (talk) 13:53, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * It is fairly straightforward: she’s an Australian national. Not dual citizenship, not American, but Australian. If this was an American living anywhere in the world, people would insist on AmEng spelling. 2A01:4C8:1075:2F3F:1854:D8FA:8876:3F5B (talk) 22:16, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

We should use Australian spelling/dates, thanks. GiantSnowman 22:23, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * No, we should follow our policy and arbcom edict, by not make unsolicited changes from one style to another. It doesn't matter whether she's a dual national or not (and we don't actually know that either way, anyway). She has clear and obvious ties with the United States, having spent her childhood and all her professional life there. This really isn't difficult. &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 22:37, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * She wears an Australian flag on her racing suit, so this seems like an obviously Australian topic to me. She's an Australian driver competing in an American race series, much like Yao Ming is a Chinese athlete in an American athletic league. pburka (talk) 22:41, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * As the guy who created the article, I admittedly used the American "mdy" format out of habit. But the others are right. Her citizenship is still Australian, so although she grew up, lives, and races in America, I support a move to "dmy". --Bcschneider53 (talk) 23:03, 21 August 2021 (UTC)


 * As said at the top, there are competing claims for ties to Australia (by birth) and the US (growing up and competing there). Whenever there are good claims for both it really means that neither are as strong as the proponents believe. It usually comes down to each side saying that the other claim is irrelevant. In this case there really is no claim that is stronger than the competing claims. Therefore we should retain its longstanding mdy format, as per WP:DATERET. For what its worth, I am Australian and spend a lot of time sorting out dates and English dialects on car articles.  Stepho  talk 02:41, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Longstanding? The page was created two weeks ago. pburka (talk) 03:10, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, long in comparison to the changes 1 day ago.  Stepho  talk 06:37, 22 August 2021 (UTC)


 * I think she has "strong national ties" to both US & OZ, therefore it's first come first served, per MOS:RETAIN. Johnbod (talk) 14:45, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree that either style is fine and that MOS:RETAIN is controlling here. The guideline says of the existing style: "maintain it in the absence of consensus to the contrary". I would not cite the guideline, as some have above, as a reason to shut down discussion on the matter. Some here have put forth good-faith reasons for thinking that WP:STRONGNAT favors Australian English, and some American. It is fine to allow local discussion to continue and make a decision to switch styles or maintain status quo. Firefangledfeathers (talk) 14:58, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Sure. Johnbod (talk) 15:04, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Given the above conversation, there appears a rough but not unanimous consensus that WP:RETAIN should have been taken into consideration here, given the competing claims of ties to both Australia and the US. Or, at the very least, there is no consensus on the matter, which means we still retain the status quo prior to the debate, which was American English. I have therefore restored that, pending any further comments here. &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 17:25, 1 September 2021 (UTC)