Talk:Brill Building

The bust
There is a golden bust above the main doorway of the Brill Building, and a larger copy of it in the cove just below the roof facing Broadway. I believe it is of Irving Berlin, but have been unable to find any source that can confirm this. Anybody? Bgruber 07:30, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

It's not Irving Berlin. I think it was one of the Brill brothers, but I'm not sure. I have close-up photos of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.22.18.136 (talk) 21:50, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

WHY DON'T YOU READ THE ARTICLE????

What does it sound like?
This article would be stronger if it tried to explain what the brill building sound was, either descriptively or by example. Nandesuka 14:47, 15 October 2005 (UTC)


 * That would fit better in the Brill Building (genre) article. Concept14 (talk) 04:35, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I should say, that is answered in the Brill Building (genre) article. Concept14 (talk) 04:43, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Side Door Law?
Does anyone have a citation for the law that said musicians couldn't enter through the front of a building?(82.46.153.11 00:24, 5 May 2006 (UTC))
 * It was probably primarily so someone standing on the street couldn't observe that it was mostly Jews walking into the building. Sam Rockwell

Good and informative article but one glaring omission is the name of Neil Diamond who must surely be one of the most successful songwriters to have come out of the Brill Building —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.198.101.156 (talk) 05:10, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

The today
Add a new section:, so we know its current situation. Jidanni (talk) 00:40, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

another example
for Pomus/Shuman could be "Viva Las Vegas", showing that even Elvis was a customer!

The Actual Name
Such an important part of American musical history, an heir to the Tin Pan Alley era in New York City. Really, the source of a huge amount of American culture. Somewhat inexplicably, paradoxically, and mysteriously, the article refers to Lefcourt, the developer/builder, but makes no mention whatsoever of the origin of the actual name, Brill Building.

Yet there is the WP-obligatory and conspicuously large Racial politics of music publishing section. All of which is unsourced. I'm informed that, similarly, WP articles on conspiracy theories require no sourcing at all (see Obama citizenship discussion). Dynasteria (talk) 05:03, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Racial aspects of music biz
This small section on prejudice in the music business really has nothing to do with an article on The Brill Building, at least as presented. This whole section should be removed unless someone rewrites it to show how there was racism, etc specifically going on in relation to the publishers at this address, and how the activities at this specific building was different from any other musical center of the world. Otherwise the topic should best be left for an article on music publishing, or American songwriters, what have you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.125.230.12 (talk) 13:21, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Brill Building Writers
In reading this article about the Brill Building, I was quite disappointed about the ommission of my father, Redd Evans,from the list of prominent writers who headquartered in the Brill Building. His office was room 409, which faced the Rivoli theatre on Broadway. I will admit he may not have been as prolific as a lot of the writers on the list, but he made a significant contribution to the music business. Some of his compositions were "There I've Said It Again(with writer Dave Mann, also omitted fron the list), Rosie The Riveter, The Frim Fram Sauce, 1-A in the Army and A-1 in My Heart, Don't Go To Strangers, No Moon At All", and others(you can look up the complete list at "ascap.com"). If you would like additional information about my dad, feel free to contact me at jrevan@shentel.net  Thank you, Jeffrey Redd EvansRedd1912 (talk) 04:39, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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Brill Building
Please start sourcing this list before you put too many more in. Britmax (talk) 22:05, 30 June 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm adding links to articles. The links do not need to be sourced. The applicable articles themselves mention the various composers' connections to the Brill Building.


 * By the way, the names I've added are the names of some of the most well-known alumni of the Brill Building. Famspear (talk) 22:14, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
 * So to what degree is this using Wikipedia as its own source? Britmax (talk) 19:33, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

To virtually a zero degree.

In Wikipedia, "using a source" means essentially providing a source citation for a statement in the body of an article -- typically by providing the source citation in a footnote. If we make a statement in an article and then cite another Wikipedia article as support for that statement, that would be generally incorrect.

By contrast, in the Brill Building article, we are simply linking one article to other articles -- just as is done in millions of other Wikipedia articles. The other articles generally state -- correctly, apparently -- that the individuals who are the subject of the other articles (such as Carole King, or whoever) were connected to the Brill Building. If there is a problem with sourcing, the problem would exist in the article on Carole King (or whoever).

I think I did notice that the article on Johnny Mercer may not have contained a reference to the Brill Building -- I'd have to go back and look.

If there is a problem, the problem would be in the other articles. For example, if the article on Carole King is not properly sourced with respect to her connection to the Brill Building, that would need to be corrected.

The bottom line is: Wikipedia rules do not require that a mere link from article A to article B be "sourced." And, a link from Article A to Article B is not, in and of itself, an example of Wikipedia "using itself as a source." Famspear (talk) 20:31, 1 July 2017 (UTC)


 * I just went back and re-reviewed the entire article. Upon reflection, I am tending to see that this article is already relying too heavily on links to other articles -- which in a way is actually an important part of the point you are making. Not only that, but I just noticed that some of the links I added the other day actually constitute duplicates of links that were already in this article.


 * I guess I didn't look at this article closely enough. Hmmmm.... Famspear (talk) 20:42, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Non-Brill material
I'm really annoyed at how sloppily people write about Brill. They include Don Kirshner's publishing. which was not at Brill at all, and his writers like King, Sedaka. Brill existed long before rock and roll, was a center for pop music thru the 1950s, like Teresa Brewer, and earlier. Brill writers included Bacharach and David. I don't give a care if you think it's a similar "sound". It isn't even that. George Slivinsky (talk) 06:26, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

The lists in the Big Band Era section
The "Big band era" section has a list of composers and lyricists. Many of the names in this list were active in the 1960s, after the big band era, and they are already or should be mentioned in the "Brill Building sound" section. Anyone agree that cleanup is needed? Concept14 (talk) 04:40, 17 March 2023 (UTC)