Talk:British Forces Cyprus/Archives/2022/April

What exactly was British Forces Near East?
(WP:BOLDLY copied from Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Military_history/Archive_162) Dear all, I'm trying to sort out what British forces were on the island of Cyprus from the first few years of the 1960s, and part of this is what British Forces Near East and British Forces (in) Cyprus consisted of. I would ask the assistance of our Gazette experts and  to sort out whether they can find the London Gazette entry circa 1 March 1961 by which Air Marshal Sir William MacDonald was seemingly appointed Commander, British Forces Near East. Or were his titles, that also included command of Near East Air Force (Royal Air Force), actually slightly different? Would assist in working out what exactly BFNE was. Cheers and thanks to all, Buckshot06 (talk) 07:21, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I have found the entry when he left the post in 1962. At that time the post's title was, "Administrator of the Sovereign Base Areas of Akrotiri and Dhekelia in the Island of Cyprus." From Hill To Shore (talk) 09:01, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * (after edit conflict) Looking at William MacDonald (RAF officer), it appears he was appointed to the post in 1958 and left the post in 1962. There is unlikely to be a Gazette entry for 1961 as changes in the name of a job title rarely required a new notice in the Gazette. It would be different if there were major changes in the responsibilities of the post to go along with the name change, as that could have been treated as the end of one post and the start of a new post. The reappointment to the same posts in 1960 may also not have a Gazette entry; there are normally entries for start date and end date but not renewal dates. From Hill To Shore (talk) 09:31, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * In an article in the Times in March 1961 he was described as "Administrator of the British Sovereign Base Areas, Cyprus and Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief Near East Air Force". The Near East Air Force was formed in Cyprus on 1 March 1961 when it was renamed from Middle East Air Force as he was the boss of the MEAF since 30 Dec 1958 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/41586/supplement/7952 it may not have been announced. MilborneOne (talk) 09:26, 20 June 2021 (UTC)


 * This link Near East Command might help. Cinderella157 (talk) 10:06, 20 June 2021 (UTC)


 * I agree with the comments by other editors; he became the commander of the MEAF in 30 December 1958 and it looks as though everything in the next few years relates to changes in that job rather than any new job. Dormskirk (talk) 10:14, 20 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Many thanks, re the 1961 non-entry in the Gazette, and others. 'Near East Command' actually is British Forces Near East. Now, maybe I need to explain the precedence of appointments here. The principal reason for the presence of British forces on the island was actually, it appears, the defence of Iran by airstrikes - the Canberra and later Vulcan wing - through CENTO. There's a lengthy explanation which people may be interested in which I've quoted from an academic journal now at British Forces Cyprus. So Air Marshal MacDonald's primary role was to make sure that Canberra force was functioning and ready, it seems, as the nucleus of greater allied air forces. That was his "war role" as C-in-C MEAF / "Near East" after the Suez base area disappeared. As Commander BFNE he had also as a second hat had command over the British Army - Near East Land Forces - base guard units in Akrotiri and Dhekelia to guard the RAF units. These are commanding-of-forces roles. The Administrator of the Sovereign Base Areas of Akrotiri and Dhekelia was his third hat, very much subordinate, but vital, as the landlord of the remnant British territory on the island. But it now appears from Near East Command that Air Marshal MacDonald lost the CBFNE title in 1962, and from that point on, continuing AOC-in-Cs NEAF were also only Commander British Forces Cyprus (and Administrator of the SBAs).
 * Probably, Near East Command needs to be merged and redirected into British Forces Cyprus. Would make things clearer. Further comments welcome. Buckshot06 (talk) 12:43, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * OK. Updating again. In 1961-62, General (four-star) Dudley Ward, former C-in-C BAOR, was C-in-C Middle East and then Near East Command. Air Marshal William MacDonald (RAF officer) was his air forces commander, C-in-C MEAF and then NEAF. Later on, after July 1970, there was a string of RAF commanders of what is now clear was a separate command, British Forces Near East, which was *not* Near East Command. First clearly with these responsibilities was Air Marshal Sir Derek Hodgkinson. The senior officer in command of British Forces Near East was a three-star, the air marshal whose duties I have described above, but the description is generally applicable only for the later period when the command was BFNE, *not* Middle East Command. The tangle arose because the generally very reliable rabweb.org has what appears to be a mistake: Air Marshal MacDonald as not C-in-C MEAF/NEAF but as the later applicable title, Commander British Forces Near East. Buckshot06 (talk) 06:01, 16 April 2022 (UTC)